UK / Thailand tax question. Anyone?

[Kalasin Jo]

Hi all,

I am a UK citizen with residency and tax residency in France. My income is all pension and is all UK originating, but I pay tax on it in France. In the UK I am tax coded as nil, by virtue of the double taxation agreement between those two countries. My state pension is paid gross directly to my French bank. My private pension is by virtue of the nil rating also paid gross in to my UK bank account and I then send it where needed.

 

However I do spend alot of time in Thailand, where I have a wife and home. We have been discussing whether I should quit France and live here full time.

 

If I did that I would lose my French tax residency where my effective tax rate, including personal allowance, is around 10% of all income.

 

Getting tax registered in Thailand would, I think from my research, lead to a higher effective tax rate and charge but I have also seen posts saying that as a retired person in receipt only of pension payments the Thai Revenue are not interested in registering us. I have also  seen posts that income from outside Thailand is only taxable if remitted to Thailand in the year it is received. So I'm already a bit confused!

 

But, possibly a big one, if I am no longer tax registered in France and not tax registered in Thailand I'm pretty certain ( they never actually let go ) that I would be required by HMRC to pay tax on pensions income in the UK. And may be without deduction of the UK personal allowance?. And further I saw a reference on t'internet but can't find it again that I would be taxed at 45%, by HMRC.

 

Is this right? If not where am I getting this wrong?

 

I don't need " don't do it mate" comments.I do need to get clear and correct advice, if anyone out there can give it.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[Kalasin Jo]

Sorry my topic/ post on tax is in the wrong place. How do I move it and where to?

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Sorry my topic/ post on tax is in the wrong place. How do I move it and where to?

You cannot, but I can.

 

Moving to the Banking fourm.

[OJAS]

I suspect that what will be essential reading in your case is:-

 

(1) HMRC's Statutory Residence Test guidance

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547118/160803_RDR3_August2016_v2_0final_078500.pdf

 

and (2) the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Convention

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507424/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

 

 

[khunPer]

France is inside EU, whilst Thailand is 3rd country. It must be depending of double taxation agreement between UK and Thailand, if you can have your retirement income taxed in Thailand instead of country of origin.

 

I'm however not British, so I'm not familiar with UK-Thailand agreements, but we have some similar conditions in my Danish home country, where one can move to France, and have the retirement pension taxed in France at great tax-benefits compared to Denmark; whilst moving outside EU to a third world country, the retirement pension taxation will take place at origin, i.e. the country that gave you tax deductions when saving up for retirement, or from where one receive a government funded pension.

 

The Thai personal income taxation is:

Quote

Personal income tax rates applicable to taxable income are as follows
Tax rates of the Personal Income Tax

 

Taxable Income  (baht)	Tax Rate  (%)
0-150,000	Exempt
more than 150,000 but less than 300,000	5
more than 300,000 but less than 500,000	10
more than 500,000 but less than 750,000	15
more than 750,000 but less than 1,000,000	20
more than 1,000,000 but less than 2,000,000	25
more than 2,000,000 but less than 4,000,000	30
Over 4,000,000	35

 

Read more + source: Personal Income Tax (PIT)

 

I presume it's same rule for British citizen, as other EU citizens, that if your retirement income is taxed at source, you're not (also) taxable of it in Thailand.

 

Other foreign income are taxable in Thailand, if brought into the country the same year as earned, whilst brought in the following year(s) the money is considered as tax-free savings (not the exact wording, but understanding).

 

Britain might have other double taxation agreements with Thailand, for example dividends from stocks, where you might be able to be taxed by Thai norm, which is 10% dividend tax; however you might be asked to prove that you physically transfer the dividend into Thailand, to pay 10% dividend tax (and the money is otherwise not taxable in Thailand, see above). If you don't transfer the dividend into Thailand, you might be able to be taxed 15%, which is merely a general rule when living abroad (for example also for dividend originating from stocks in USA). I'm however not aware of how much you actually pay in dividend tax in Britain, if it's a benefit to be taxed after Thai rules, or not.

????

[Kalasin Jo]

On 11/12/2018 at 9:05 AM, Crossy said:

You cannot, but I can.

 

Moving to the Banking fourm.

Thanks Crossy

[topt]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

It must be depending of double taxation agreement between UK and Thailand, if you can have your retirement income taxed in Thailand instead of country of origin.

No DTA between Thailand and UK for most pensions. The only pensions included in the DTA are some government (IE civil service type) pensions but not private or the state pension. This has been discussed at length in previous threads.

 

You will still be non resident for tax as far as HMRC is concerned but now living in Thailand instead of France. As you suspect you should be taxed by HMRC on any pension income over and above the personal allowance - which you can definitely still claim. This is presuming you inform them you have moved,,,,,,,

The tax level will be as per the different brackets above the personal allowance and not a flat figure.