Denmark Embassy Has Stopped Doing Pension Letters

[soalbundy]

42 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ah, Maestro's posting suffix seems so pertinent here. The only thing the Thais have said so far -- and which has created all this turmoil -- is they want income verification. Probably they only wanted 'good faith effort' but the embassies apparently thought they heard 'absolute' verification. Subtleties certainly can be lost in translation.

exactly my own thoughts

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Income letters/affidavits/stat decs have always been issued and accepted on good faith and based on the truthfulness of the applicant.

Guess who spoiled that by abuse.

'Verify' or 'verification' translates perfectly well in Thai and English.

 

It's not that the Embassies won't, it's the fact they can't 'verify' your information.

Verification involves the process of establishing the truth, accuracy, or validity of something.

The same Data Protection laws that prevent me from verifying your personal details and information, also prevents any other third party from doing the same, unless you go through the correct legal process, which can be time consuming and costly.

Nobody really wants to know if it's solid gold or just gold plated, it just has to look nice, it's the Thailand works.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Nobody really wants to know if it's solid gold or just gold plated, it just has to look nice, it's the Thailand works.

Keep dreaming, times are changing.

[Olmate]

When the tea money stops I,ll agree with that.

[soalbundy]

36 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Keep dreaming, times are changing.

The methods of production may change but the product remains the same.

My 22 year old step daughter opened up another way for me after listening to me explain the problem to her mother. She and her husband have a thriving car repair and spare parts business, with her university degree she is the brains behind the business. She got the bank to give them a credit limit of 6 million Baht with low interest. Why do it the hard way she said, if you need 400k instead of the income method tell me and I will take some of the credit as 'business expansion' and put it on your account, you can pay me monthly to my private account. Oh, problem solved.

[jimn]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The methods of production may change but the product remains the same.

My 22 year old step daughter opened up another way for me after listening to me explain the problem to her mother. She and her husband have a thriving car repair and spare parts business, with her university degree she is the brains behind the business. She got the bank to give them a credit limit of 6 million Baht with low interest. Why do it the hard way she said, if you need 400k instead of the income method tell me and I will take some of the credit as 'business expansion' and put it on your account, you can pay me monthly to my private account. Oh, problem solved.

At what interest rate? Dont forget she is Thai lol

[Joe Mcseismic]

On 11/18/2018 at 10:28 AM, Nielsk said:

While we may not be the preferred high spenders that the Bangkok elite desire we continually pump money into the local economy." Spot on !!  Every word You state is so true !

Yes, so true..................and so irrelevant.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

At what interest rate? Dont forget she is Thai lol

The same as she would pay the bank, or as my missus said probably no interest, I paid for her university education. A couple of years ago I borrowed 20,000 of off her for a few months, when I went to pay her back she seemed quite embarrassed, ''You're papa, you don't have to pay it back''

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The methods of production may change but the product remains the same.

My 22 year old step daughter opened up another way for me after listening to me explain the problem to her mother. She and her husband have a thriving car repair and spare parts business, with her university degree she is the brains behind the business. She got the bank to give them a credit limit of 6 million Baht with low interest. Why do it the hard way she said, if you need 400k instead of the income method tell me and I will take some of the credit as 'business expansion' and put it on your account, you can pay me monthly to my private account. Oh, problem solved.

You've done nothing but chastise the Embassies who have made announcements, throughout all the relevant threads, and gloated on the fact the German Embassy still issue an Income letter, which is acceptable to Immigration.

 

If your so cock sure of your facts, why look for an alternative.

[JackThompson]

32 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes, so true..................and so irrelevant.

Sure, totally irrelevant, if you don't care about the Thais whose lives go to hell when we aren't funding their salaries and/or supporting their families with our incomes.

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Sure, totally irrelevant, if you don't care about the Thais whose lives go to hell when we aren't funding their salaries and/or supporting their families with our incomes.

Whether I care, or not isn't going to influence the outcome...............same as you.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Joe Mcseismic said:

Whether I care, or not isn't going to influence the outcome...............same as you.

I'm lost as to why you're 'gloating' at the idea of those with 65,000 bht p.m income being thrown out of Thailand - as a result of Immigration demands/Embassies being 'difficult'?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

You've done nothing but chastise the Embassies who have made announcements, throughout all the relevant threads, and gloated on the fact the German Embassy still issue an Income letter, which is acceptable to Immigration.

 

If your so cock sure of your facts, why look for an alternative.

I certainly haven't gloated, as I have said before, an 'attack' against one section of falangs is an 'attack' against us all and I am concerned to what happens to all of my fellow expats in this situation. 'There but for the grace of God go I'. I consider that the German embassy have reacted correctly,ie. by not reacting at all. If the IO isn't satisfied with their letters they will tell them so but they haven't said anything and I doubt they would have said anything to BE about their letters even with the caveat, pure overreaction.

I am not cock sure about anything, only change is constant, I try to keep all options open, an unthought of surprise is just around the corner. We are not in control anywhere but we like to think we are.

[melvinmelvin]

 

Å side remark, kinda relevant though.

Sent an email to "my" embassy, Norway, last Friday asking about their stance re income verification.

Got the answer this morning, they answered roughly;

 

The embassy is currently in a process of reviewing all consular services offered.

The objective of the review is to ensure that the type of services offered and how  the services are offered

are in line with guidelines set by the MFA.

Any changes to current regime will be announced on our www and on Facebook.

 

Kinda mumble mumble response, but they have to watch it when they use e-mail,

might have responded more to the point if I had turned up at the embassy and talked face to face.

 

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm lost as to why you're 'gloating' at the idea of those with 65,000 bht p.m income being thrown out of Thailand - as a result of Immigration demands/Embassies being 'difficult'?

My point isn't to gloat. It's to point out we're powerless. Income method will end up as cash in a Thai bank for those without embassy issued letters. All the histrionics over personal circumstances and what TI should do is all irrelevant, so, better make plans.

[glegolo]

Maybe this is not the correct thread to write this in, but take  chance.. It was just published now from the swedish embassy that they have no intensions whatsoever to stop issuing these income-letters....

 

So I guess we swedes at least are off the hook..... Reason being that we have a system in place where we actually have documents that confirms our income, so our embassy can confirm the same as well...

 

Good luck for us swedes...

 

glegolo

Edited November 19, 2018 by glegolo

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You've done nothing but chastise the Embassies who have made announcements, throughout all the relevant threads, and gloated on the fact the German Embassy still issue an Income letter, which is acceptable to Immigration.

 

And now the Swedes. I guess these embassies have interpreted the guidance (or lack thereof) as meaning 'beyond a reasonable doubt' and not '100% certainty.' The Swiss have a fairly solid system, so I expect we'll see them also keep the income letter system. Will be fun to see how all the others line up. The Nigerians will probably have a slight variation, namely, the bearer of this letter is due any day now for donations he's recently solicited.

[glegolo]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

And now the Swedes. I guess these embassies have interpreted the guidance (or lack thereof) as meaning 'beyond a reasonable doubt' and not '100% certainty.' The Swiss have a fairly solid system, so I expect we'll see them also keep the income letter system. Will be fun to see how all the others line up. The Nigerians will probably have a slight variation, namely, the bearer of this letter is due any day now for donations he's recently solicited.

Why jump on the nigerians now suddenly? We all now how it works in that part of the "woods",, So what can the nigerians then say about the americans? "Let´s shoot our way to acceptance from the immigration".... The english; "Let´s bribe Immigration with a cup of tea and so forth...

 

glegolo

[North]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

Maybe this is not the correct thread to write this in, but take  chance.. It was just published now from the swedish embassy that they have no intensions whatsoever to stop issuing these income-letters....

 

So I guess we swedes at least are off the hook..... Reason being that we have a system in place where we actually have documents that confirms our income, so our embassy can confirm the same as well...

 

Good luck for us swedes...

 

glegolo

Do you have a link to that announcement ?

Edited November 19, 2018 by North

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

Maybe this is not the correct thread to write this in, but take  chance.. It was just published now from the swedish embassy that they have no intensions whatsoever to stop issuing these income-letters....

 

So I guess we swedes at least are off the hook..... Reason being that we have a system in place where we actually have documents that confirms our income, so our embassy can confirm the same as well...

 

Good luck for us swedes...

 

glegolo

Off the hook as long as the letters the Swedish embassy issue meet the new immigration requirements.

[pagallim]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

Maybe this is not the correct thread to write this in, but take  chance.. It was just published now from the swedish embassy that they have no intensions whatsoever to stop issuing these income-letters....

 

So I guess we swedes at least are off the hook..... Reason being that we have a system in place where we actually have documents that confirms our income, so our embassy can confirm the same as well...

 

Good luck for us swedes...

 

glegolo

I seem to recall the US and Australian embassies saying much the same thing.............

[DrDweeb]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:05 AM, gk10002000 said:

well technically very few things are guaranteed.  Do the Danes mean the government is not guaranteeing that the current pension levels won't be maintained?  I think technically many countries have that situation.  Or are the Danes just saying they can't meet whatever the Thais are now asking for, as far as documentation?

I just read the danish version. It refers specifically for 1 years visas for tourism and retirement.

 

It says that they "cannot legally guarantee what the income of an individual for the coming year will be" to the Thailand authorities.

 

It's crystal clear in danish. ????

[JimGant]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

'Verify' or 'verification' translates perfectly well in Thai and English.

 

Yes, but what flavor of "verification" was Thai Immigration actually trying to implement:

Verification Dee

Verification Dee gwa

Verification Dee tee sud

 

The 4 embassies that have already punted probably interpreted the latter. But I doubt a realistic TI would have knowingly pushed that hard.

[DrDweeb]

In denmark, all pension information is available via a website called pensionsinfo.dk. It aggregates private and public pension information for easy visualisation.
 
This website has a strict disclaimer that the calculations may not be precise. There are specific reasons for this, including pension funds that vary in value constantly, whether the citizen is entitled to the national pension or just part of it and so on. I have previously used the printout from this website as a demonstration that upon retirement, my current pension funds and national pension would provide income x.x DKK and it was accepted by the Thai authorities. I have no idea whether they will do so again in January when I need a renewal.

The grey bit at the bottom is the national pension basic level amount, while the other colours are private arrangements (similar to Superannuation, 401K and so on). FInally, it is possible to nominate others and allow them access to see this information.

 

This is an example.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by DrDweeb

[Pib]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

Maybe this is not the correct thread to write this in, but take  chance.. It was just published now from the swedish embassy that they have no intensions whatsoever to stop issuing these income-letters....

 

So I guess we swedes at least are off the hook..... Reason being that we have a system in place where we actually have documents that confirms our income, so our embassy can confirm the same as well...

 

Good luck for us swedes...

 

glegolo

The US and AU embassies gave similar responses until they reversed course a few weeks later and put a new-term end date to providing income letters.  Intentions can change in a heart beat.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, North said:

Do you have a link to that announcement ?

Do you speak and read swedish???? otherwise it will be tricky.. But here is the link... and scroll down....

https://www.facebook.com/SwedeninBangkok/

 

glegolo

[glegolo]

Nice that all of you gratulates the swedes... IRONY OF CAUSE....

 

glegolo

[DrDweeb]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, perconrad said:

I am Danish and live full time in Thailand. Luckily I just renewed my extension in october using the income letter and now have almost a year to save for the next extension. I think I will change to married extension from retired. The Danish government old age pension is not as good as some here think, if You live outside the EU then the pension is just DKK 6,315 or about THB 31,575 before tax. Some have other pensions too and I am one of these, but not all have. It is very difficult to get a permanent residency for a wife from Thailand in Denmark, so it will be hard times ahead for some of my country men. Denmark do not like its citizen to move outside the EU. We do pay full tax to Denmark 37% of all our pensions even if we stay in Thailand, but get nothing in return. The Government also takes our voting rights for Folketinget-The parliament from us. 

Yes, it's astonishing to many people that this is the state of play in danmark. Americans have been fed so many lies by Bernie Sanders & Co. about denmark that they think it's all some sort of utopia.

 

The fact that we pay income tax on that pittance that the basic pension is while residing in another country says everything you need to know about danmark, the #1 most taxed country on the planet.

[DrDweeb]

On 11/15/2018 at 3:31 PM, fforest1 said:

Denmark is the most highly taxed country in the world....I feel bad for the danish..Denmark taxes the hell out of just about every thing there including about the highest VAT in Europe....Even with a reduced pension I think your better off in Thailand... 

Actually Hungary has 27% now, v. 25% in danmark.

Unlike most countries, danmark has essentially no exemptions or differentiated VAT. The VAT on a a snowboard is the same as that on a loaf of stale bread

[DrDweeb]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:42 PM, Awk said:

The fact that the Danish embassy is with immediate effect ceasing to provide this verification is appalling as it may very well leave many of it's citizens with no other choice than to leave Thailand in order to get enough seasoning time to switch to the 400/800k in the bank method.

 

What is "seasoning time", specifically. Is there some stipulated length of time that money needs to stay in Thailand before it is good for a visa?