Denmark Embassy Has Stopped Doing Pension Letters

[Nielsk]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

Thank you for a report of your actual experience.  It's very valuable, although I wish the news were better.

As in your case, real people will be adversely affected by this debacle regarding the issuing of embassy income letters.  Embassy personnel will be completely unaffected as will Thai Immigration personnel, the negative consequences will fall entirely and solely on the individuals and their families seeking to use the income method for getting their extensions of stay.

Here are some things to consider in your situation.  First I would abandon using the income method.  Second, is it possible for you to fund a Thai bank account with 800,000 baht?  If so, you could switch to the seasoned money-in-the-bank method of getting your retirement extension (assuming you're not married to a Thai, in which case you would only need 400,000).  It would need to be seasoned (in the bank account) for a period of three [corrected from two] months for your first retirement extension using that method.

If it's possible longterm to switch to the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank method then that would be the way to go.  Temporarily you maybe could make do with Visa Exempt Entries (30 days) and/or Tourist Visas (60 days) plus 30 day extensions to either.

 

If the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank is not feasible for you then perhaps you could obtain a non-imm O-A (long term stay) visa in your home country.  This route would give you up to nearly two years of time in Thailand.

The least desirable method if you cannot afford the 800,000 is to use a visa agent in Thailand which for a considerable fee can get you a retirement extension without you having to season the 800,000 in your Thai bank account for 3 [corrected from 2] months.  This is obviously not completely above-board and would only be something to consider if none of the previous suggestions were feasible.

Thank You for your very good advices.    I really appreciate your help  !

[TKDfella]

5 hours ago, zydeco said:

The Chinese are not just guests. They will never be just guests. See what is happening in Laos.  The Chinese just move in and start taking over. On my newsfeed some months ago, I saw an article that stated some 200,000 to 400,000 Chinese had moved into Laos and started up operations. This, in a country of less than 7 million people. How long before they start squatting in northern Thailand permanently?

Could well be...but I think t will be for the second time. I've always understood that, commercially, the Chinese-Thais are the richest in the country. Obviously I could be wrong, but my own experiences tend to suggest there is something to it. It's a bit of a long story so I won't bore you here, unless you want me to (did mention on a similar thread, I think, a couple of years ago). But the thing that surprised me was the amount of 'inbreeding' and this showed it's consequences throughout.

[BoBoTheClown]

18 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Yes the money is the problem ????

You aren't the only one. Only a select few people have the ability to change from the income method to the 400,000 or 800,000 with causing hardship. 

 

[Curt1591]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:40 PM, Justin Side said:

The more the better.

Hopefully will hear from Thai Immigration soon with new requirements.

This is what the consensus of opinion is at the US Embassy's ACS. After the pending sh_t storm hits, Thai Immigration will have to come up with a "Plan B".

[JLCrab]

I have been in Thailand full time now for 15 years and have never paid more than 1900 baht for a yearly visa non-IMM B or 1 year extension plus re-entry fees. Whether that can continue I don't know.

 

Just for my own resourcefulness, next year I do not intend to deposit 800K baht for 3 months, use an agent, or buy a Thailand Elite. But who knows?

Edited November 16, 2018 by JLCrab

[Ned]

Hundreds, if not thousands of posts on this topic. Seems most of the people bagging the embassies have the required funds in overseas banks but don't want to deposit it in a Thai bank.

[ubonjoe]

Several inflammatory posts containing misleading information with no factual proof of it and the resultant replies to it have been removed.

Forum Rules.

Quote

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[JohnnyBD]

This is THIRD-HAND INFO - DETAILS NOT CONFIRMED

Someone sent me this message stating that their friend used an agent in Chiang Mai and was able to get an extension-of-stay without a US Consulate income affidavit. I replied back asking what proof of income was accepted, but haven't received a reply. And, I don't know how much the agent was paid for his service or whether this was above or below the table dealings. Just passing on what someone sent me in response to my post on not using income letters.

Kindly, Johnny

 

4 hours ago, noise said:

UbonJoe said:  At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

That is true but misleading.  My American friend renewed his extension of stay in Chiangmai early this week through an agent with only proof of income, no U.S. Consulate letter.   

 

So I know it can be done.  Yet to be determined if all Chiangmai agents working the desks will accept just the proof.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[The Names Bond]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:01 PM, pontious said:

OOPS! Sorry, Joe can you change it to avoid Dutch heart attacks.

Dutch, Danish, same, same we all know what you meant.

[jimn]

56 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

This is THIRD-HAND INFO - DETAILS NOT CONFIRMED

Someone sent me this message stating that their friend used an agent in Chiang Mai and was able to get an extension-of-stay without a US Consulate income affidavit. I replied back asking what proof of income was accepted, but haven't received a reply. And, I don't know how much the agent was paid for his service or whether this was above or below the table dealings. Just passing on what someone sent me in response to my post on not using income letters.

Kindly, Johnny

 

Anyone using an agent would not require an embassy letter because the agent would not be using the income method for his client. Almost 100% the agent deposited 800,000 baht into the guys bank account, he obtained a bank letter and immigration weived the seasoning requirement for a fee. This is not news it happens all the time. Get back on subject its about the income method and embassy letters not money in the bank.

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, The Names Bond said:

Dutch, Danish, same, same we all know what you meant.

 

Dutch, Danish, same, same we all know what you meant.

 

agree, same same

it is all Greek to me

Edited November 16, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[pookiki]

43 minutes ago, jimn said:

Anyone using an agent would not require an embassy letter because the agent would not be using the income method for his client. Almost 100% the agent deposited 800,000 baht into the guys bank account, he obtained a bank letter and immigration weived the seasoning requirement for a fee. This is not news it happens all the time. Get back on subject its about the income method and embassy letters not money in the bank.

Congratulations to TI for changing a system that was 99% honest into one that will most likely team with corruption.  Also, US expats using this system should be warned that deposits and withdrawals in their foreign bank accounts in excess of US$10,000 could trigger OFAC and FBAR scrutiny.  Maybe even AMLO?

 

Using agents are an expedient option but one that could have unintended consequences for you -- not the agent.

Edited November 16, 2018 by pookiki
grammar

[joevanwyck]

3 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Congratulations to TI for changing a system that was 99% honest into one that will most likely team with corruption.  Also, US expats using this system should be warned that deposits and withdrawals in their foreign bank accounts in excess of US$10,000 could trigger OFAC and FBAR scrutiny.  Maybe even AMLO?

 

Using agents are an expedient option but one that could unintended consequences for you -- not the agent.

You have a good point.

[JohnnyBD]

42 minutes ago, jimn said:

Anyone using an agent would not require an embassy letter because the agent would not be using the income method for his client. Almost 100% the agent deposited 800,000 baht into the guys bank account, he obtained a bank letter and immigration weived the seasoning requirement for a fee. This is not news it happens all the time. Get back on subject its about the income method and embassy letters not money in the bank. 

This was specifically about the income method and NOT about the bank account method as per my original post asking if anyone was using the income method without having to get an income letter and he was responding to my original post, so it was on subject... Kindly, Johnny

Edited November 16, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[skatewash]

19 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Congratulations to TI for changing a system that was 99% honest into one that will most likely team with corruption.  Also, US expats using this system should be warned that deposits and withdrawals in their foreign bank accounts in excess of US$10,000 could trigger OFAC and FBAR scrutiny.  Maybe even AMLO?

 

Using agents are an expedient option but one that could unintended consequences for you -- not the agent.

 

If Thai Immigration allows proving income without the embassy income letter it might actually be an improvement.  The first such case I've heard about is this one:  

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1068418-has-anyone-used-monthly-income-without-the-income-letter/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-13569904

 

Your comment on triggering FBAR scrutiny for US citizens using the money in the bank method is definitely true.  However, compliance with this requirement is not especially difficult once you go through a short learning curve.  I'm skeptical that OFAC or AMLO concerns enter into it, however.  If they do, I have no idea why they would.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by skatewash
Linked directly to the relevant comment rather than the entire thread.

[watso63]

16 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Congratulations to TI for changing a system that was 99% honest into one that will most likely team with corruption.  Also, US expats using this system should be warned that deposits and withdrawals in their foreign bank accounts in excess of US$10,000 could trigger OFAC and FBAR scrutiny.  Maybe even AMLO?

 

Using agents are an expedient option but one that could unintended consequences for you -- not the agent.

Land of the free...not lol

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, watso63 said:

Also, US expats using this system should be warned that deposits and withdrawals in their foreign bank accounts in excess of US$10,000 could trigger OFAC and FBAR scrutiny.  Maybe even AMLO?

For Christ's sake- I get  Social Security and a military pension- this is utter nonsense- and this is why I hesitate to put 800K in a Thai bank.  Anybody ever hear of freedom to live one's life as they see fit.

[jimn]

14 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

This was specifically about the income method and NOT about the bank account method as per my original post asking if anyone was using the income method without having to get an income letter and he was responding to my original post, so it was on subject... Kindly, Johnny

The thing is Johnny I have never heard of anyone using an agent for the income method. I maybe wrong but its normally as I describe. Look forward to you getting a response. Anyway we had better stop discussing agents as its frowned upon and could be considered illegal.

[Jingthing]

For Christ's sake- I get  Social Security and a military pension- this is utter nonsense- and this is why I hesitate to put 800K in a Thai bank.  Anybody ever hear of freedom to live one's life as they see fit.

Well if you're not Thai your freedom such as it is is restricted. If you are Thai...that's for another topic.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elviajero]

A report from an Aussie getting an extension without an income letter.

 

 

[pookiki]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

For Christ's sake- I get  Social Security and a military pension- this is utter nonsense- and this is why I hesitate to put 800K in a Thai bank.  Anybody ever hear of freedom to live one's life as they see fit.

Besides the extra requirements for tax filings, I must 'consider' a will if I keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account to leave the money to my children. Unfortunately, in the event of my death, one of them would have to come to Thailand and probate my will in a Thai court.  Knowing the speed with which the Thai judicial system operates, my children will have to stay in very good health to ever see the the money.  In reality, to think that any of my children would have the time and money to come to Thailand to probate my will is sheer lunacy.

[Jingthing]

The thing is Johnny I have never heard of anyone using an agent for the income method. I maybe wrong but its normally as I describe. Look forward to you getting a response. Anyway we had better stop discussing agents as its frowned upon and could be considered illegal.

Some use them legitimately and use the income method. You know the people willing to pay for convenience.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elviajero]

34 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Congratulations to TI for changing a system that was 99% honest into one that will most likely team with corruption. 

The system is simple, but is no way 99% honest. It was wide open for abuse.

 

Ti haven’t, yet, formally changed anything.

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

For Christ's sake- I get  Social Security and a military pension- this is utter nonsense- and this is why I hesitate to put 800K in a Thai bank.  Anybody ever hear of freedom to live one's life as they see fit.

yes, have heard of that

to a large extent I think LoS offers  that

 

[pookiki]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The system is simple, but is no way 99% honest. It was wide open for abuse.

 

Ti haven’t, yet, formally changed anything.

Well, four embassies say the system has changed -- and my heart goes out to the Danes who had no warning of their embassy's change whatsoever. 

[skatewash]

2 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Well, four embassies say the system has changed -- and my heart goes out to the Danes who had no warning of their embassy's change whatsoever. 

Yes, but embassies are mere fleas on the back of the Thai Immigration dog.  They don't decide how Thai Immigration will handle income based extensions of stay, that's completely up to Thai Immigration.  If Thai Immigration accepts proof of income without the embassy income letter this whole fiasco could actually end up being a positive improvement.

Here's the first glimmer of hope I've seen in that regard.  A retirement extension granted based on proof of income without an embassy income letter:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1068418-has-anyone-used-monthly-income-without-the-income-letter/?do=findComment&comment=13569904

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Yes, but embassies are mere fleas on the back of the Thai Immigration dog.  They don't decide how Thai Immigration will handle income based extensions of stay, that's completely up to Thai Immigration. 

So, so true....gave me a great mental image.

[totally thaied up]

2 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Here's the first glimmer of hope I've seen in that regard.  A retirement extension granted based on proof of income without an embassy income letter:

And each Immigration office has its own rules. I got told this week for my next extension in July to have 400K in the bank. Today at the Outreach in CM, lots of Aussies getting the letter. Embassy could not tell me much. 

[skatewash]

7 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

And each Immigration office has its own rules. I got told this week for my next extension in July to have 400K in the bank. Today at the Outreach in CM, lots of Aussies getting the letter. Embassy could not tell me much. 

I agree.  If I depended on the income method I would make every effort to get the embassy income letter while they are still available.  In my opinion, those people you saw at the outreach are being prudent in doing so.

But it would be nice in my opinion if Thai Immigration would allow applicants to make their own offer of evidence to the immigration officer without requiring the embassy income letter.  Is that happening?  Well, it happened to one Australian seeking a retirement extension at one immigration office today.  On the other hand, It didn't happen to several Danish applicants, presumably at different immigration offices.  I certainly don't know the answer to that question.  I hope every applicant will have the same opportunity as the successful Australian to prove his income without the embassy income letter.  Maybe that's happening.  Maybe it isn't.  It's difficult to tell, especially given the history of inconsistency at immigration offices.  I'm just hoping that's all.  But by all means, people who can avail themselves of the opportunity to get their extension of stay using the tried and true use of the embassy income letter should do that as long as it's possible.

[GinBoy2]

Honestly guys after the countless pages in the UK, USA, Australian threads, might as well just recycle them all just inserting <Country, Embassy du jour>

 

It's inevitable that every embassy is being presented with the same requirement to verify(certify) income, which I sincerely doubt any of them will do.

 

No amount of hand wringing or discussion regarding different countries, or whining about your countries embassy will change the basic facts that Thai authorities are trying to place the responsibility on the embassy, rather than the individual.

 

Sorry, but everyone has to face facts.

Wait to see how it ultimately pans out, and in the meantime make backup plans, just in case.

 

As the rather apt saying goes, 'Hope for the best, plan for the worst'