Denmark Embassy Has Stopped Doing Pension Letters

[The Truth]

18 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Honestly guys after the countless pages in the UK, USA, Australian threads, might as well just recycle them all just inserting <Country, Embassy du jour>

 

It's inevitable that every embassy is being presented with the same requirement to verify(certify) income, which I sincerely doubt any of them will do.

 

No amount of hand wringing or discussion regarding different countries, or whining about your countries embassy will change the basic facts that Thai authorities are trying to place the responsibility on the embassy, rather than the individual.

 

Sorry, but everyone has to face facts.

Wait to see how it ultimately pans out, and in the meantime make backup plans, just in case.

 

As the rather apt saying goes, 'Hope for the best, plan for the worst'

This.

 

Stop whining, folks.

The party had to end some time and, sadly, some of us may have to toodle off elsewhere.

Can't blame the Thais for wanting to make sure that we actually do have the income we say we have.

If you can afford the 400/800k, just bung it in a bank for 2/3 months of the year before your renewal.

If you can't, you may have to accept that Thailand probably doesn't want you here any more.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Honestly guys after the countless pages in the UK, USA, Australian threads, might as well just recycle them all just inserting <Country, Embassy du jour>

 

It's inevitable that every embassy is being presented with the same requirement to verify(certify) income, which I sincerely doubt any of them will do.

 

No amount of hand wringing or discussion regarding different countries, or whining about your countries embassy will change the basic facts that Thai authorities are trying to place the responsibility on the embassy, rather than the individual.

 

Sorry, but everyone has to face facts.

Wait to see how it ultimately pans out, and in the meantime make backup plans, just in case.

 

As the rather apt saying goes, 'Hope for the best, plan for the worst'

this is hardly about shifting responsibility from individuals to embassies

it is about predicting the future

Asians at large are comfortable with the notion of predicting the future

Europeans are not.

 

I think the Danes here are off to a good start,

contacting Danish TV and a newspaper

 

to be considered;

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Danish Ombudsman

Danish political parties

Danish lawyer to see if there is scope for an injunction here

 

good luck

 

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

9 hours ago, OJAS said:

I don't know what the Danish legal position is, but my understanding of the UK's Data Protection Act is that it would be OK for a government entity (e.g. the Bangkok Embassy) to access personal information held on a database created by another government entity (e.g. HMRC). It is only when and if information were shared outside the UK government that a breach of the Act might arise.

Even government agencies cannot exchange personal information without your consent.

 

Each year every household completes a Council tax form listing the age and names of residents so your tax bill can be worked out. Why then do the government do a UK census of household residents, when that information is already held by local Councils.

 

The GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations) applies across all European Countries.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Tanoshi

[Psychic]

17 minutes ago, The Truth said:

This.

 

Stop whining, folks.

The party had to end some time and, sadly, some of us may have to toodle off elsewhere.

Can't blame the Thais for wanting to make sure that we actually do have the income we say we have.

If you can afford the 400/800k, just bung it in a bank for 2/3 months of the year before your renewal.

If you can't, you may have to accept that Thailand probably doesn't want you here any more.

 

 

Sadly, I think the average Thai actually does want us here.

 

The owner of the local shop that I go to so often that the wife calls her "my girlfriend" wouldn't be happy if I left.

 

The guy I pay to take care of the garden and share a beer with afterwards doesn't want me to leave.

 

Likewise the family run restaurant we visit for some noodle soup and a beer.

 

The Thais I paid to build our house, the local suppliers of building materials, big shops like Thai Watsadu who got at least 3 million in revenue.

 

Nissan Thailand who I bought my truck from.

 

I could go on.

 

None of these people or entities want me, or people like me, to leave Thailand.

 

While we may not be the preferred high spenders that the Bangkok elite desire we continually pump money into the local economy.

 

Do you know how much these people will gain from high end tourists or the Chinese bus riders.

 

Precisely zero.

 

I get all the arguments about the near destitute farangs that will burden the system.

 

But this is an incredibly small percentage of expats.

 

Most of us are financially independent though not wealthy.

 

We contribute much more to local economies than we will ever take out of them.

 

We pay for education of Thai children.

 

 And on the whole we add to the Thai economy without burdening it.

 

I am not sure where this push to make it more difficult for long stay farangs is coming from.

 

I read TV almost daily and I don't see any kind of crime wave from retirees and married farangs.

 

Maybe there are multiple unreported incidents of bad behaviour I am not aware of.

 

Maybe it's a kind if racist xenophobia, certainly the pictures I see of black people targeted by Immigration suggests that. But maybe there are a lot of African criminals here.

 

Certainly there doesn't seem to be a problem with a million Burmese/Cambodian/Lao people here who, almost certainly, beyond providing cheap labor contribute far less to the Thai economy than western expats.

 

As always I am confused by policy decisions here.

 

My friend who lives well, has 3 golf memberships, lives in a 15 million baht condo relies on an income statement.

 

He probably spends less than 65000 every month.

 

Last year he bought a new SUV for about 1.5 million.

 

He is fully capable of putting 800K in the bank but chooses to earn about 80K abroad.

 

Do you really want to put an individual like that in a position where he cannot extend his visa by any recognised means because his embassy pulls off the immediate withdrawal of income letters he has used for the last 18 years?

 

That's what you want to do to a 78 year old man who has poured 10's of millions of baht into the Thai economy?

 

Lots of bananas here.

????

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

Spent 16 million ThB in 18 years here. 

Don't want any appreciation for this, as I enjoyed buying all kind of things here, for my own pleasure. 

Just be able to continue to spend 75000 ThB a month. 

In another words, continuing to be able to stay here, on base of income. 

[OneeyedJohn]

I was in a restaurant yesterday, and the menu had 'soup de jour' at the top, so I asked the waiter what it was....

 

He said......'Soup of the day'.

 

[Naam]

11 hours ago, Psychic said:

Sadly, I think the average Thai actually does want us here.

 

The owner of the local shop that I go to so often that the wife calls her "my girlfriend" wouldn't be happy if I left.

 

The guy I pay to take care of the garden and share a beer with afterwards doesn't want me to leave.

 

Likewise the family run restaurant we visit for some noodle soup and a beer.

 

The Thais I paid to build our house, the local suppliers of building materials, big shops like Thai Watsadu who got at least 3 million in revenue.

 

Nissan Thailand who I bought my truck from.

 

I could go on.

 

None of these people or entities want me, or people like me, to leave Thailand.

 

While we may not be the preferred high spenders that the Bangkok elite desire we continually pump money into the local economy.

 

Do you know how much these people will gain from high end tourists or the Chinese bus riders.

 

Precisely zero.

 

I get all the arguments about the near destitute farangs that will burden the system.

 

But this is an incredibly small percentage of expats.

 

Most of us are financially independent though not wealthy.

 

We contribute much more to local economies than we will ever take out of them.

 

We pay for education of Thai children.

 

 And on the whole we add to the Thai economy without burdening it.

 

I am not sure where this push to make it more difficult for long stay farangs is coming from.

 

I read TV almost daily and I don't see any kind of crime wave from retirees and married farangs.

 

Maybe there are multiple unreported incidents of bad behaviour I am not aware of.

 

Maybe it's a kind if racist xenophobia, certainly the pictures I see of black people targeted by Immigration suggests that. But maybe there are a lot of African criminals here.

 

Certainly there doesn't seem to be a problem with a million Burmese/Cambodian/Lao people here who, almost certainly, beyond providing cheap labor contribute far less to the Thai economy than western expats.

 

As always I am confused by policy decisions here.

 

My friend who lives well, has 3 golf memberships, lives in a 15 million baht condo relies on an income statement.

 

He probably spends less than 65000 every month.

 

Last year he bought a new SUV for about 1.5 million.

 

He is fully capable of putting 800K in the bank but chooses to earn about 80K abroad.

 

Do you really want to put an individual like that in a position where he cannot extend his visa by any recognised means because his embassy pulls off the immediate withdrawal of income letters he has used for the last 18 years?

 

That's what you want to do to a 78 year old man who has poured 10's of millions of baht into the Thai economy?

 

Lots of bananas here.

????

 

yes, just to teach a stubborn old man a lesson concerning reality.

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, Psychic said:

Sadly, I think the average Thai actually does want us here.

 

The owner of the local shop that I go to so often that the wife calls her "my girlfriend" wouldn't be happy if I left.

 

The guy I pay to take care of the garden and share a beer with afterwards doesn't want me to leave.

 

Likewise the family run restaurant we visit for some noodle soup and a beer.

 

The Thais I paid to build our house, the local suppliers of building materials, big shops like Thai Watsadu who got at least 3 million in revenue.

 

Nissan Thailand who I bought my truck from.

 

I could go on.

 

None of these people or entities want me, or people like me, to leave Thailand.

 

While we may not be the preferred high spenders that the Bangkok elite desire we continually pump money into the local economy.

 

Do you know how much these people will gain from high end tourists or the Chinese bus riders.

 

Precisely zero.

 

I get all the arguments about the near destitute farangs that will burden the system.

 

But this is an incredibly small percentage of expats.

 

Most of us are financially independent though not wealthy.

 

We contribute much more to local economies than we will ever take out of them.

 

We pay for education of Thai children.

 

 And on the whole we add to the Thai economy without burdening it.

 

I am not sure where this push to make it more difficult for long stay farangs is coming from.

 

I read TV almost daily and I don't see any kind of crime wave from retirees and married farangs.

 

Maybe there are multiple unreported incidents of bad behaviour I am not aware of.

 

Maybe it's a kind if racist xenophobia, certainly the pictures I see of black people targeted by Immigration suggests that. But maybe there are a lot of African criminals here.

 

Certainly there doesn't seem to be a problem with a million Burmese/Cambodian/Lao people here who, almost certainly, beyond providing cheap labor contribute far less to the Thai economy than western expats.

 

As always I am confused by policy decisions here.

 

My friend who lives well, has 3 golf memberships, lives in a 15 million baht condo relies on an income statement.

 

He probably spends less than 65000 every month.

 

Last year he bought a new SUV for about 1.5 million.

 

He is fully capable of putting 800K in the bank but chooses to earn about 80K abroad.

 

Do you really want to put an individual like that in a position where he cannot extend his visa by any recognised means because his embassy pulls off the immediate withdrawal of income letters he has used for the last 18 years?

 

That's what you want to do to a 78 year old man who has poured 10's of millions of baht into the Thai economy?

 

Lots of bananas here.

????

 

 

 

beating a stubborn mule rarely brings results, you have to put another mule in its place.

[soalbundy]

15 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I was in a restaurant yesterday, and the menu had 'soup de jour' at the top, so I asked the waiter what it was....

 

He said......'Soup of the day'.

 

He was correct, there are many concepts revolving around the same object, he chose the most obvious.

[flexomike]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:41 AM, cyberfarang said:

I`ll explain and then up to you whether you except the explanation or not.

 

Going back not so long ago it was dead easy for foreigners to open Thai bank accounts, mostly just on the show of a passport with virtually no questions asked. But over the years this easy system has been abused.

 

Now Immigration are concerned about foreigners using Thai banks for money laundering, illegal incomes and criminal activities, which has been happening. There are some Thai banks and some branches of Thai banks that are flatly refusing to let foreigners open accounts with them.

 

It has become common knowledge that a large minority of expats are using corrupt agency methods to pull strings to obtain their yearly extensions for a price. Some have openly boasted about doing this on these forums.

 

Borrowing money from a Thai bank and then paying back by whatever methods, means the person does not meet the requirements of having the prescribed amounts in a Thai bank under their own right, they are borrowing from Peter to pay back Paul. Also immigration, as I`ve said want to ensure that the money foreigners have in a bank here is their own and legal.

 

Simply put, Thai immigration no longer wants cheap charlies in Thailand that are unable to meet with immigration requirements expecting everything laid on for a decent lifestyle all for free and without giving anything back in return. Thailand does not owe foreigners a comfortable standard of living, there is no such thing as a free ride in this world.

 A little business advice, robbing Peter to Pay Paul only makes Peter sore and everyone knows that you cannot do business with a sore Peter

[wgdanson]

On 11/15/2018 at 4:58 AM, Aforek said:

The two owners of the very  known computer shop in Hua hin are from Denmark 

( sorry, don't remember the name, but everybody on TV knows them ) 

I am sure the guys at I.........e IT will be able to put 800k into a bank, if they do not already. 

[roobaa01]

im confused, here my question....the danish government pension fund is mailing every year millions of letters also for danish expats. these letters contain info how much pension someone receive etc. thus taking this danish letter to the thai mfa translation service chaeng wattana to translated duly stamped and signed. then present the letter to the immi to be accepted as income proof ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, roobaa01 said:

im confused, here my question....the danish government pension fund is mailing every year millions of letters also for danish expats. these letters contain info how much pension someone receive etc. thus taking this danish letter to the thai mfa translation service chaeng wattana to translated duly stamped and signed. then present the letter to the immi to be accepted as income proof ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

Not currently.

This is a topic I've been mentioned for weeks now with little support.

But here goes again. 

As it seems clear the embassy letters are going away and the issue is verification, at the very least Thai immigration should strongly consider creating a way for people having lifetime GOVERNMENT income streams to verify them ONE TIME and then be able to use that for life. This is COMMON in other nations offering retirement status to foreigners. Of course for those with pensions under 65K monthly, the combo method would need to be preserved.

[roobaa01]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not currently.

This is a topic I've been mentioned for weeks now with little support.

But here goes again. 

As it seems clear the embassy letters are going away and the issue is verification, at the very least Thai immigration should strongly consider creating a way for people having lifetime GOVERNMENT income streams to verify them ONE TIME and then be able to use that for life. This is COMMON in other nations offering retirement status to foreigners. Of course for those with pensions under 65K monthly, the combo method would need to be preserved.

both would be government hence someone might give it a go in such a way with add 800 k seasoned if plan a fails.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Tanoshi]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

at the very least Thai immigration should strongly consider creating a way for people having lifetime GOVERNMENT income streams to verify them ONE TIME and then be able to use that for life.

How many Government income streams do you know that equate to 65,000 baht a month?

Many don't even equate to 40,000 baht.

What percentage of expats have a state and military pension paid by the government …… 3%

 

How exactly are you going to verify these incomes?

 

 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, flexomike said:

 A little business advice, robbing Peter to Pay Paul only makes Peter sore and everyone knows that you cannot do business with a sore Peter

So Paul is also sore

[dick dasterdly]

"How many Government income streams do you know that equate to 65,000 baht a month?

Many don't even equate to 40,000 baht.

What percentage of expats have a state and military pension paid by the government …… 3%"

 

Precisely.  Selfish people only concerned about their own interests - and screw everyone else affected.

 

There's too much of this on these threads.

 

[roobaa01]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

How many Government income streams do you know that equate to 65,000 baht a month?

Many don't even equate to 40,000 baht.

What percentage of expats have a state and military pension paid by the government …… 3%

 

How exactly are you going to verify these incomes?

 

 

in denmark hundreds of thousands receive thb 65 k monthly.

wbr

roobaa01

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

How many Government income streams do you know that equate to 65,000 baht a month?

Many don't even equate to 40,000 baht.

What percentage of expats have a state and military pension paid by the government …… 3%

 

How exactly are you going to verify these incomes?

 

 

Most don't meet the 65k. That's what the COMBINATION method is for. People with government pensions can get a document from their government's pension paying agency and then officialize that in some way (specified by Thailand) in a way that can be accepted. This isn't rocket science! Like I said before, most other nations that offer retirement programs have a way to do this. But because they recognize it's a pain to do, they only require it ONE TIME! To people that say their pension may go up, they could offer an option to do it again. Otherwise people could use the combination method. Obviously this doesn't address any other income streams but for retired people, pensions are often the primary one and the most secure for life. Such a change might mean ONLY pensions could be used and others must use the full bank method. That might not be ideal but it's certainly better than NO WAY to use any income at all for qualification, yes? 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

in denmark hundreds of thousands receive thb 65 k monthly.

wbr

roobaa01

That's good to hear for Danes. The average U.S. pension is significantly under that. 

[roobaa01]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's good to hear for Danes. The average U.S. pension is significantly under that. 

in general scandinavia offers next to switzerland pretty good pensions.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Jingthing]

To add, Thailand does not need to reinvent the wheel to deal with this issue.

The obviously disintegrating "embassy letter" system is not something that I'm aware that any other nation with a retirement program has done. It's an outlier.

They can easily just COPY methods other nations use.

At the very least they can allow people to verify their GOVERNMENT pensions. That's not an unreasonable thing to hope/expect them to do. It's actually BASIC.  But they've never bothered looking into this before because of the embassy letter system. 

[The Truth]

16 hours ago, Psychic said:

Sadly, I think the average Thai actually does want us here.

 

The owner of the local shop that I go to so often that the wife calls her "my girlfriend" wouldn't be happy if I left.

 

The guy I pay to take care of the garden and share a beer with afterwards doesn't want me to leave.

 

Likewise the family run restaurant we visit for some noodle soup and a beer.

 

The Thais I paid to build our house, the local suppliers of building materials, big shops like Thai Watsadu who got at least 3 million in revenue.

 

Nissan Thailand who I bought my truck from.

 

I could go on.

 

None of these people or entities want me, or people like me, to leave Thailand.

 

While we may not be the preferred high spenders that the Bangkok elite desire we continually pump money into the local economy.

 

Do you know how much these people will gain from high end tourists or the Chinese bus riders.

 

Precisely zero.

 

I get all the arguments about the near destitute farangs that will burden the system.

 

But this is an incredibly small percentage of expats.

 

Most of us are financially independent though not wealthy.

 

We contribute much more to local economies than we will ever take out of them.

 

We pay for education of Thai children.

 

 And on the whole we add to the Thai economy without burdening it.

 

I am not sure where this push to make it more difficult for long stay farangs is coming from.

 

I read TV almost daily and I don't see any kind of crime wave from retirees and married farangs.

 

Maybe there are multiple unreported incidents of bad behaviour I am not aware of.

 

Maybe it's a kind if racist xenophobia, certainly the pictures I see of black people targeted by Immigration suggests that. But maybe there are a lot of African criminals here.

 

Certainly there doesn't seem to be a problem with a million Burmese/Cambodian/Lao people here who, almost certainly, beyond providing cheap labor contribute far less to the Thai economy than western expats.

 

As always I am confused by policy decisions here.

 

My friend who lives well, has 3 golf memberships, lives in a 15 million baht condo relies on an income statement.

 

He probably spends less than 65000 every month.

 

Last year he bought a new SUV for about 1.5 million.

 

He is fully capable of putting 800K in the bank but chooses to earn about 80K abroad.

 

Do you really want to put an individual like that in a position where he cannot extend his visa by any recognised means because his embassy pulls off the immediate withdrawal of income letters he has used for the last 18 years?

 

That's what you want to do to a 78 year old man who has poured 10's of millions of baht into the Thai economy?

 

Lots of bananas here.

????

 

 

 

Well, your friend should have no difficulty whatsoever depositing the 800k in a Thai bank account, should he?

He's free to take a stand on a point of principle but they'll just refuse his extension and he can go elsewhere.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, roobaa01 said:

in general scandinavia offers next to switzerland pretty good pensions.

 

wbr

roobaa01

In any case, lots of people don't meet that 65K and under the current system that can be dealt with using the combination method. But obviously if income methods without embassy letters go away, then so does the combination method which is PARTLY an income method. 

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

in denmark hundreds of thousands receive thb 65 k monthly.

wbr

roobaa01

Not state pension.

Pension age is currently 65 in Denmark, but will be increased to age 68 over a transitional period. The total pension depends on the pensioner's present income and marital status, but assets have no effect. Basic pension amount is 74,844 DKK p.a. per 1 January 2018.

Roughly 31,350 baht per month.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

At the very least they can allow people to verify their GOVERNMENT pensions.

What use is that if your not married and it's less than 40K baht a month anyway.

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

in general scandinavia offers next to switzerland pretty good pensions.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Because of the high cost of living in those countries. Great pensions for those emigrating to countries like Thailand.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

if income methods without embassy letters go away, then so does the combination method which is PARTLY an income method. 

Some will be going, going, and some are already gone.

 

The combination method is dying along with the Embassy letters.

[tuk75]

But dont forget, scandinavia is charging a high tax on the pension, 30-40%.

Most swiss get it tax free.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Because of the high cost of living in those countries. Great pensions for those emigrating to countries like Thailand.

Highest taxation levels as well.

You can only spend the Nett, not the Gross.