Here's a good read discussing both sides of the good/bad plastic container issue
 
https://qz.com/1189422/in-defense-of-plastic-the-worlds-most-wasteful-hazardous-downright-useful-material/
 
Personally i believe that if ultimate consumers had to pay, even 1 baht, for such toss-away bags, there would be fewer of them floating around. 
 
I found china (10 yrs ago) and the Phil Islands (5 yrs ago) the worst for local bag litter: roadsides, alleyways and waterways densely crowded with crappy toss-away bags.  Ugly, very ugly and ultimately damaging to the environment and all who live there.

Yes, put it on the backs of the poor.

6 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

What works?

I grew up in California and there is certainly not less trash laying around now than 20 years ago.

 

Take a look at a video of Rwanda then and now.  They banned plastic bags more than 10 years ago.  Seems the Africans can attack the problem successfully but the rest of us can't.  I despair.

I don’t think that you really can “tax” or regulate your way out of this kind of issue.

Yes, I do think a nominal B5 or the like, tax on the use/store supply of a traditional plastic bag, is a good idea and can’t “hurt” per se.

But I think the real key to sustainable improvement will be a shift in attitude... taxes, fees, regulations and such will all help start the behavior shift and encourage (through financial disincentive) behavior change.. but I don’t think any that will be the real long-term solution.

I know and understand why a society or government may choose to address issues via regulation and taxation - it’s easier, generally quicker and more tangible - but I just don’t think it’s a genuine solution that’s both sustainable and leads to true behavior changes absent the external negative stimuli (the tax/fee) being present and active.


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I don’t think that you really can “tax” or regulate your way out of this kind of issue.

Yes, I do think a nominal B5 or the like, tax on the use/store supply of a traditional plastic bag, is a good idea and can’t “hurt” per se.

But I think the real key to sustainable improvement will be a shift in attitude... taxes, fees, regulations and such will all help start the behavior shift and encourage (through financial disincentive) behavior change.. but I don’t think any that will be the real long-term solution.

I know and understand why a society or government may choose to address issues via regulation and taxation - it’s easier, generally quicker and more tangible - but I just don’t think it’s a genuine solution that’s both sustainable and leads to true behavior changes absent the external negative stimuli (the tax/fee) being present and active.


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5 Baht a bag is not much to us, but to a poor guy with a family grunting out a living on 10k a month it could be.

I would much rather see a deposit than a tax or fee.

On 11/17/2018 at 7:44 PM, mogandave said:

Hey, remember we used to use biodegradable paper bags?

Lefty told us we were desecrating the the forest, so we had to uses plastic bags.

Now lefty doesn’t want us using the bags they compelled us to use.

Plenty of forests only exist to make paper bags.  Demand for trees creates trees in most countries, and eventually, in all countries.

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

5 Baht a bag is not much to us, but to a poor guy with a family grunting out a living on 10k a month it could be.

I would much rather see a deposit than a tax or fee.

 

5 baht a bag is not much to you or me, so we have to be responsible through our own commitment to the environment.

 

For the bloke living on 10K a month, he doesn't need to be environmentally aware - he'll re-use his plastic bags for the sake of the 5 baht.  And he'll collect aluminium cans for re-cycling.  That's one of the benefits of aluminium over plastic or glass for drinks containers - its too expensive to throw away.

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

5 Baht a bag is not much to us, but to a poor guy with a family grunting out a living on 10k a month it could be.

I would much rather see a deposit than a tax or fee.

 

I think you're missing the point.  This is not an exercise to create an income thread, the idea is for people to stop using them.  To use your example, the poor guy is more likely to stop using them than us 'rich' westerners.

 

Putting a levy on plastic bags in the UK reduced their use by 90%, although I still believe banning them would be the right way to go.

12 hours ago, chingmai331 said:

Here's a good read discussing both sides of the good/bad plastic container issue

The article predicting doom and gloom if plastic bags are not used anymore is easily debunked by looking around in African nations that already banned them. Or Bangladesh that banned them 15 years already. Or developed places like in Japan, California, and others. Banning solves the problem. Charging a fee does not.

 

The article predicting doom and gloom if plastic bags are not used anymore is easily debunked by looking around in African nations that already banned them. Or Bangladesh that banned them 15 years already. Or developed places like in Japan, California, and others. Banning solves the problem. Charging a fee does not.
 

I grew up in California, and visit several times a year and as far as I can tell plastic bags are readily available where I shop. Also, California seems to have more litter now than when I was a kid.

Most people Africa don’t have anything to but in a bag anyway...

20 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

5 Baht a bag is not much to us, but to a poor guy with a family grunting out a living on 10k a month it could be.

I would much rather see a deposit than a tax or fee.

 

I could go with that too.. I just think that a taxation-type approach isn’t really going to truly fix the issue long term.. but I agree that whatever tax/fee arrangement is put into place isn’t overly burdensome.. it should be motivational and not debilitating.    

I could go with that too.. I just think that a taxation-type approach isn’t really going to truly fix the issue long term.. but I agree that whatever tax/fee arrangement is put into place isn’t overly burdensome.. it should be motivational and not debilitating.    

Again though, whatever is done, should be progressive. The more you have or earn, the more you should have to pay.

The wife just uses her own bags and gets extra points in Tesco for doing so,although every now and again i get plastic bags to use as bin linners.
As in the UK we had to pay for carrier bags as well i reckon she got the habit of not using them there,to save money for one thing.

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