Britain will head into unknown if Brexit deal is rejected - May

[johnnybangkok]

I think any sensible individual can now see that this has to go to another vote. If you were a Leave fan, you certainly couldn't have thought you were getting this bag of nonsense, with the fall back plan of a no deal Brexit.

The people were rightly promised what they were promised and although we know there was large amounts of misinformation (on both sides), no one could have thought it was going to be as bad as this.

Now that we actually know what Brexit is going to look like let's put it back in the hands of the British populous and vote again.  

[vogie]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Helped by an utter lack of concern for the innate rights of individuals, a pathological desire for our then leaders to accumulate more and more wealth and power regardless of the cost to others, and a belief that God had willed it so?

That's how it was in those days RR, nobody thought they were doing wrong. Yes the British were doing it, so were the French, Germans, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch (sorry if I've left any European country out), it's just that the British were better at it than anyone else. The Danes and the Norse were doing even before us, nobody has a go at the bloody Vikings, do they.????

I had no say in it, nor any of our fellow living Brits did, so why some people seem so compelled to keep harking on about it defies all logic, there is nothing we can do to change things.

Will the deal be voted in or out, who knows, every day is different in Brexit Fantasia.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

That's how it was in those days RR, nobody thought they were doing wrong. Yes the British were doing it, so were the French, Germans, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch (sorry if I've left any European country out), it's just that the British were better at it than anyone else. The Danes and the Norse were doing even before us, nobody has a go at the bloody Vikings, do they.????

I had no say in it, nor any of our fellow living Brits did, so why some people seem so compelled to keep harking on about it defies all logic, there is nothing we can do to change things.

Will the deal be voted in or out, who knows, every day is different in Brexit Fantasia.

Oh, no attempt at self flagellation there Vogie. You are right - there seemed to be a competition amongst European nobility to see who could be the most callously depraved. I think King Leopold of Belgium is a strong contender for the number 1 spot. 

 

But my post was in direct response to the suggestion (or my inference, at least) that, having once had a global empire, Britain could rise again from the remnants of Brexit. While our contemporary world leaders may be no less pathological, the opportunities for them to behave as blatantly as their predecessors did is not so apparent. 

 

[IAMHERE]

Hard Brexit just means UK people will have to make new deals; they are capable. 

[John1012]

Rather go into to the 'unknown' as an independent democratic nation than continue into the morass of the corrupt dictatorial EU, losing our national identity, control of our laws, becoming a vassal state of the EUSSR. Many other countries trade successfully under WTO rules, is it beyond our capabilities to resume trading as an independent nation, with our own national standards and tariffs? Australia/New Zealand/Canada/USA are huge markets. It might take a few years to build up our manufacturing and agriculture base again, but we would survive. We just need some politicians with a spine to represent us, sadly May, Hammond, Javid and co do not qualify. As an aside, if Theresa May told me I was male, I would check , that is how much credibility I put into anything she does or says.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, fullcave said:

Welcome to the hotel EU. You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave. 

Just like Kent cannot leave the U.K. on the same conditions as the Brexiteers insist.

Edited November 27, 2018 by puipuitom

[brewsterbudgen]

Hard Brexit just means UK people will have to make new deals; they are capable. 

It won't happen. The Norway option looks the most likely.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MRToMRT]

God this whole thing is a shambles, she may not be the greatest PM but I think she has done her job in at least getting a deal for the vote against all the naysayers and political roadblocks.

I was a firm remainer but the whole thing has now bored/annoyed me so much I don't give a hoot which way it goes. Blighty can steer her own ship over whichever rapids she chooses, I am not going back so don't really care what happens to them/you all anymore.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by MRToMRT

[Nigel Garvie]

4 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I think any sensible individual can now see that this has to go to another vote. If you were a Leave fan, you certainly couldn't have thought you were getting this bag of nonsense, with the fall back plan of a no deal Brexit.

The people were rightly promised what they were promised and although we know there was large amounts of misinformation (on both sides), no one could have thought it was going to be as bad as this.

Now that we actually know what Brexit is going to look like let's put it back in the hands of the British populous and vote again.  

Whether you are a leaver - as you appear to be - or not - as in my case- the bulk of what you say I totally agree with, this is not what ANYBODY expected or indeed wanted. Asking the people again is the only valid option.

A couple of points though, nobody was rightly promised anything. You can't (Or shouldn't anyway) promise people things that you are completely incapable of delivering. Farage was uncharacteristicly honest, when the morning after the referendum he admitted that £350M for the NHS was just essentially, made up for a laugh. A woman who was "Promised the world" by her suitor, would be best to call in a shrink to deal with his delusions! Then there is the Cambridge Analytica/ Banks the crook/ Russia tie up which suggests that the referendum was won illegally. No question that the other side were also economical with the truth, but only Trump would claim that the degree of dishonestly was comparable, it isn't.  

[Brigand]

The only choice is to be in, as we were, with being able to influence and change things and accepting rule on much from a place that is outside our country or be properly out with all that entails including making our own decisions on everything plus leaving the comfort zone of the EU which many have got very dependent on. It's certainly true people don't like risk or change in their lives but sometimes it can be a good idea or a rewarding step forward. Either it's 'the devil you know' or 'roll-the-dice on a brave new world.' Can't have some wishy-washy half-baked 'we are in and out' situation with no voice and still being told what to accept...which is not what anyone voted for from either side, it was in or out. 

 

It is beginning to look like this deal is unlikely to get through the UK parliament...and maybe that's good for both sides as neither really wants it as is. Where that will take the UK after that is another thing...we'll see.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Brigand

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Oh, no attempt at self flagellation there Vogie. You are right - there seemed to be a competition amongst European nobility to see who could be the most callously depraved. I think King Leopold of Belgium is a strong contender for the number 1 spot. 

 

But my post was in direct response to the suggestion (or my inference, at least) that, having once had a global empire, Britain could rise again from the remnants of Brexit. While our contemporary world leaders may be no less pathological, the opportunities for them to behave as blatantly as their predecessors did is not so apparent. 

 

Leopold surely among the leaders of the pack,

not necessarily gold medal but at least a podium place.

 

[baboon]

3 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Hard Brexit just means UK people will have to make new deals; they are capable. 

It isn't a question of not being capable. It is a question of what deals with whom and under what terms. All I hear from the No Deal Brexiteers is that it'll be all right on the night. No concrete plans or forecasts, just 'coulds' and 'Have faith'.

 

Other people are perfectly entitled to their own opinions, but I'm afraid that these assurances of castles in the sky aren't working for me. And as for putting my trust in Boris Johnson and JRM, no thanks...

[the guest]

UK knows only too well it cannot survive without EU. 

 

British industry, sold and controlled by foreigners. 

Infrastructure; trains, planes automobiles, sold and controlled by foreigners.

NHS is at breaking point

Universities; students must pay every year 9,250 UKP (except Scotland)

Government Services mostly sourced-out to private entities

Banking; solely relies on EURO pass otherwise witness the mass exodus to the EU

 

Don't blame the EU for your woes, better to look inwards most are caused by the British themselves.

  

[Jip99]

27 minutes ago, the guest said:

UK knows only too well it cannot survive without EU. 

 

 

  

 

 

People like Ike you have made the mistake of underestimating the UK in the past.

 

The UK can manage perfectly well without the EU.

 

It does need Europe though - as much as Europe needs the UK.

[superal]

T.May was a remainer = conflict of interest .  Cameron resigned because it was the right thing to do as the vote defeated him .  The UK has gone to war with a pacifist at the helm , so to speak .

May has refused to be influenced by D. Davis or  Dominic Raab who again did the right thing and resigned . May is consistently stubborn and refuses to listen to her own party and others of different opinions .

It really is scary and she reminds me of a dictator who is hell bent on doing things her way or not at all .

The UK has been bullied by the E.U. as an example to any other country that have thoughts of leaving the union .  For me Boris would not have taken the same stance and would have punched back , nor would he let the Brexit saga continue for so long which has caused many problems to businesses because of uncertainty .

T.May should not be the PM of the UK as she has demonstrated by her dreadful E.U. performance and austerity cuts imposed on the NHS and police . The UK is in a right mess and the floundering pound is just one of the casualties .

As a footnote ( I am not a JC supporter ) but if there was a general election and labour won , JC is a champion of getting the expat pensions annual increase reinstated for all . Every cloud has a silver lining .

[RickBradford]

Here's a deal suited to Mrs May.

 

The UK:

 

* pays $60bn to the EU

* leaves the Single Market and the Customs Union, but agrees to abide by all their present and future regulations

* accepts the continuing jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice

* accepts EU regulations on free movement of people

* cedes Northern Ireland to the Irish Republic

* cedes Gibraltar to Spain

 

They're pretty close already, just a couple of details to sort out ....

[Becker]

15 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

People like Ike you have made the mistake of underestimating the UK in the past.

 

The UK can manage perfectly well without the EU.

 

It does need Europe though - as much as Europe needs the UK.

You seem to be stuck in a time warp. The days of the British empire is long gone and today your nation of 60+ mill. needs Europe's 450(ish) mill. far more than Europe needs you.

Let me repeat; faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Becker said:

You seem to be stuck in a time warp. The days of the British empire is long gone and today your nation of 60+ mill. needs Europe's 450(ish) mill. far more than Europe needs you.

Let me repeat; faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more.

And what Empire are you from....?

[billd766]

On 11/27/2018 at 11:26 AM, Nigel Garvie said:

May is a barely adequate leader like Corbyn. Her job was to achieve an impossible deal with a much larger, better organized partner, represented by highly intelligent and well informed people. When you look at the self serving halfwit dross that makes up the vast majority of Tory  MPs, how could she not fail. The wonder deal that the Brexit leader charlatans and crooks promised the ignorant voters, was never never never remotely achievable. May is poor, second rate, certainly, but hardly a traitor.

However May voted to Remain and the people who worked so hard FOR Brexit were not in the government and so could not affect the deal.

 

Had the PM been a Brexiteer then negotiations would have been handled much differently.

 

Under May there was always going to be a surrender to the EU interests and to hell with what the UK offered.

 

The EU wants to punish the UK financially for having the temerity to want to leave the wonderfully warm and caring EU, and at the same time send a warning to any other EU country who may also want to leave.

 

IMHO I don't think the deal will get past parliament and equally Teresa May will be dumped at the next election.

 

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

And what Empire are you from....?

None, no empire exists today.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Becker said:

None, no empire exists today.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire

So what non empire do you come from...?

[malagateddy]

You seem to be stuck in a time warp. The days of the British empire is long gone and today your nation of 60+ mill. needs Europe's 450(ish) mill. far more than Europe needs you.
Let me repeat; faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more.

The eu need...

1. Finance from the UK

2. The UK's far superior anti-terrorism intelligence network....have you ever heard about the " 5 eyes "?????.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Becker]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So what non empire do you come from...?

1. The non empire of none of your business.

2. What possible relevance could that have?

[nontabury]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:03 AM, Becker said:

She could never "win" a good Brexit deal because she was dealt a hand that didn't even have a pair of twos and she was playing someone that had, at a minimum, a full house.

She was never going to get a good deal, for the simple reason,she’s a full on remainer. Put in place by the Conservative establishment,who also are remainers, with the intention of overriding the Democratic wish of the British people.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Becker said:

1. The non empire of none of your business.

2. What possible relevance could that have?

Perhaps I can reply creating discussion....Do you fear I may have points you may not like...?

[billd766]

20 hours ago, John1012 said:

Rather go into to the 'unknown' as an independent democratic nation than continue into the morass of the corrupt dictatorial EU, losing our national identity, control of our laws, becoming a vassal state of the EUSSR. Many other countries trade successfully under WTO rules, is it beyond our capabilities to resume trading as an independent nation, with our own national standards and tariffs? Australia/New Zealand/Canada/USA are huge markets. It might take a few years to build up our manufacturing and agriculture base again, but we would survive. We just need some politicians with a spine to represent us, sadly May, Hammond, Javid and co do not qualify. As an aside, if Theresa May told me I was male, I would check , that is how much credibility I put into anything she does or says.

Many British people seem to think so, we have done it before and there is no reason why we cannot do it again.

 

To do it properly we need good strong and reliable leaders with the will to lead the UK onwards, though I have to admit that the current crop of MPs from ALL political parties don't really inspire me

[nontabury]

38 minutes ago, Becker said:

1. The non empire of none of your business.

2. What possible relevance could that have?

It just seem that a very high % of the poster who are in support of the U.K. remaining in the E.U. are citizens of the E.U. While nearly 100% of those championing Brexit, are U.K citizens. I wonder why.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by nontabury

[nontabury]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:16 AM, Basil B said:

See it did not take that s#!t stirring fat fool from across the pond long to shove his oar in, one thing you can be sure he speaks only for the interests of America The Trump Corp.

Well he certainly got one thing right, when he described May’s so called agreement, as a very good deal for the E.U.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Perhaps I can reply creating discussion....Do you fear I may have points you may not like...?

there is only one empire

it might strike

just ask Solo and Daft Wader

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Perhaps I can reply creating discussion....Do you fear I may have points you may not like...?

there is only one empire

it might strike

just ask Solo and Daft Wader