Copy shop next to Jomtien IO is "certifying" Income documents

[JLCrab]

40 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Some IOs / desks / offices are honest, and some aren't.   Your only workaround when they are not honest, is to move - to live in the service-area of another office.

... or to go back to your country of passport and get an O-A Visa from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and say NUTS! to the conniving folks at IMM.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Astonishing reliance on western concepts of law in a country that does not recognize such concepts. If they grant your extension, it is unlikely that it will be rescinded. Such an action defies common sense.  The Embassy Letters were ALSO not "legitimate" because they could not and would not GUARANTEE that income statements were true. That is not the mission of an embassy. Thai Immigration pushed too hard and asked for too much and the response of the embassies was to tell them to stuff it, thereby throwing their own citizens out of a method of income verification. The best verification is having a Thai official who can READ the financial information supplied by the applicant and determine if it is real or counterfeit. Government documents and those from annuities are usually extremely verifiable with an email or a phone call. Many online sources to verify, as well. Don't overthink this. Many are making this harder than it has to be.

Some are also making it sound as if it as easy as shelling peas. Take nothing for granted here, haven't you learned that yet?

[KittenKong]

13 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Just to add, the money obtained from agents is huge.

Especially in a place like Jomtien.

My source has told me it is collected and basically put in a pot.

Sounds likely. Even the money collected for residence certificates must add up to quite a lot each day. I imagine that goes the same way.

[alohatodon2]

What good is that if Thai Immigration is not accepting them after January 1?  Embassies will do it for much less up to then.

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It sounds a bit shady to me. Not sure how they could possibley do it and have it accepted by immigration.

The shop they speak of is suppose to be own whole or jointly?  The Brit use to be a representative for the British Embassy in Pattaya at one time he actually greeted and answer questions inside the front door at Jomtien. Then I read something years back he was retiring in the Pattaya Mail, when the story hit in regards to the income letter he wrote something negative regarding the matter again posted on Pattaya Mail. A few months back I was having breakfast next door while waiting for my Entry stamp and saw him inside the shop directing the staff so not surprise the years he work or volunteer inside must have yield him some contacts?  

Edited November 28, 2018 by thailand49

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, alohatodon2 said:

What good is that if Thai Immigration is not accepting them after January 1?  Embassies will do it for much less up to then.

What makes you think they will not accept them after January 1st. Immigration has not said that.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, MJKT2014 said:

Common sense to me would be following the immigration law for annual extensions i.e. having the monthly income or yearly 3 month balance in the extenders Thai bank. Going to a knock off shop next door to get it fixed for a rip off fee with no money in your Thai bank defies common sense to me. If the the extension has gone into a passport by some IO bending the rules, why wouldn't it be at risk of being rescinded? 

Using common-sense is not always as clear a path to predicting the future here.  Following your logic, I didn't use an agent either - had to go out to a Thai Consulate for a Visa.  A Non-O-ME with border-runs and a "Pattaya Agent" retirement-stamp are about the same in cost, so that's not a factor.  I simply don't want to create a situation which could risk my future here.

 

But as to why ending the agent-system is unlikely to happen, it is because the agent-money is a large pyramid-scheme, likely going to the top.  How else could agent-offers be advertised publicly without consequence?  To end this, hundreds or thousands of staff up the ranks would need to lose their primary source of income ("salary" being a fraction by comparison), and possibly go to prison for years of participating in fraud.  That could happen, but I consider it very, very unlikely.  I think this system may be in the "too big to fail" category.  That said, I will continue to try to avoid it.

[KhunFred]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

Not so sure of that. It could just take a "little shakedown" of Jomtien on BJ's part to result in a number of Pattayan non-immigrants being banged up in the IDC pending deportation on account of possessing what are, in effect, FAKE extension of stay stamps!

This is nothing but a "chest-beating" exercise by an official who wanted to prove his masculinity. If the money is right, then everything else falls into place.

[KhunFred]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

... or to go back to your country of passport and get an O-A Visa from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and say NUTS! to the conniving folks at IMM.

Getting an OA visa does not cut the folks at IO out of any money. It is an unnecessary step with onerous requirements such as police report and doctor's statement that are completely superfluous. Nothing you can do will bypass Immigration, they will always be part of the mix. The agent system has been part of the process for many years. If they suddenly decide that it is "illegal" . (5555555555) then they cut themselves out of many thousands of baht in tea money. Bribes are here to stay.

Edited November 28, 2018 by KhunFred

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Astonishing reliance on western concepts of law in a country that does not recognize such concepts.

And I can't help but think the talk at the IMM office at the end of the day as they are divvying up the spoils is what a bunch of chumps these farang are to pay 15-20,000 baht for what really only costs 1900 baht and a little leg work.

[KhunFred]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

And I can't help but think the talk at the IMM office at the end of the day as they are divvying up the spoils is what a bunch of chumps these farang are to pay 15-20,000 baht for what really only costs 1900 baht and a little leg work.

They created and perpetuate the system. They should know better than anyone that there is little choice for us, therefore, no one is laughing. Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated. WIth the end of embassy letters, we have reached the end of the road in terms of options for renewal of extension of stay. They planned it this way and they are poised to reap the monetary rewards.

Edited November 28, 2018 by KhunFred

[JLCrab]

6 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Getting an OA visa does not cut the folks at IO out of any money.

So the Ministry of Foreign Affairs gives money to the IMM RTP?

Edited November 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[JLCrab]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

They created and perpetuate the system. They should know better than anyone that there is little choice for us, therefore, no one is laughing.

Sure they are.

[KhunFred]

4 hours ago, yodsak said:

200 mtr further up. ,past nickys. towards pattaya thai.   cheap, can recommend.     google.   

Just past "Katsiree Restaurant and Inn"

 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

They created and perpetuate the system. They should know better than anyone that there is little choice for us, therefore, no one is laughing.

They are masters at asking for additional documentation that is difficult if not impossible to get. Doing a marriage extension, I was once asked to provide the original passport I entered Thailand showing the date that matched my marriage registration. I had a duly registered marriage certificate; an Embassy affirmation document and a history with Immigration.  The passport they wanted was  25 years old.

 

Luckily, my wife had saved it and when i brought it to immigration they were quite shocked that I had it.  Had I not have had it- they were hinting that they 'could help'.

 

In more than 4 decades of  Extensions- I have never used an agent but I have been lucky.  Even though one has the  required documentation that is normal- they can ask for something else that involves  costly trips to get it or timely run around.  or in some cases impossible to get.

 

While I have the required documentation to prove income- and always carry this with me for extensions, I am always aware that they may ask for 'something else' and that something alse may be impossible to get.

 

 

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated.

With 800K baht in the bank for 3 months it is still 1900 baht and a little leg work.

[GeorgeCross]

24 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

They created and perpetuate the system. They should know better than anyone that there is little choice for us, therefore, no one is laughing. Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated. WIth the end of embassy letters, we have reached the end of the road in terms of options for renewal of extension of stay. They planned it this way and they are poised to reap the monetary rewards.

 

we still have the money in the bank option i believe.

 

its simple, effective, costs 1900 baht and once approved means a years worth of worry free sleeps.

 

 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

53 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

They created and perpetuate the system. They should know better than anyone that there is little choice for us, therefore, no one is laughing. Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated. WIth the end of embassy letters, we have reached the end of the road in terms of options for renewal of extension of stay. They planned it this way and they are poised to reap the monetary rewards.

You are correct, outdated.  I take a taxi to the bank for my letter (money in the bank) and then a taxi to Immigration.  The process takes about 20 minutes.  I do walk from the Taxi to the door of Immigration with a cane and give them 1900 baht so I guess that is legwork but only a little. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Pattaya46]

57 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

//  Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated.

How that "outdated" ??

1'900 B is what all my friends and I are paying for our yearly Retirement Extension.

Ok, maybe add 200 B for bank letter or 1'000 B for Embassy letter, but still small money and easy work.

Your are insinuating in several threads that using Agent is something normal and very frequent. I disagree. Pretty sure that it concerns only a minority of people and that the huge majority of retirees use one of normal legal ways to get their extension, and so pay it 1'900 B only.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

// With the end of embassy letters, we have reached the end of the road in terms of options for renewal of extension of stay.

Embassy letters do not stop, neither to be provided nor to be accepted !

Ok, a very few countries decided to stop providing them; sad for people concerned;

but the 400/800k option is still there and no doubt that the majority of concerned people will now use this option.

I thing that only a very small number of people could find no other solution than using an Agent... It's the risky illegal option of the last chance...

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

Plus, your suggestion that the price is only 1900 baht and "a little leg work" is outdated.

That's all I pay for my retirement extension based on a bank deposit.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

And I can't help but think the talk at the IMM office at the end of the day as they are divvying up the spoils is what a bunch of chumps these farang are to pay 15-20,000 baht for what really only costs 1900 baht and a little leg work.

For some people, it's worth paying the 15-20k to save the time/effort/p155ing about.

 

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

For some people, it's worth paying the 15-20k to save the time/effort/p155ing about.

I am sure that many who go the agent route have much better things to do with there time -- except just about everyone who has told me in person over the years that they use the agent route were either in a bar or just hanging out and seemed otherwise bored out of their minds.

[onera1961]

20 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

For some people, it's worth paying the 15-20k to save the time/effort/p155ing about.

If everything is legit (money in bank and seasoned properly), more than 3K for agent service is too much. 3000 + 1900 immigration fee. So approximately 5000. I won't pay more than 5K

If no money (loan and seasoning waiver), 10K + 5K = 15K. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by onera1961

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, KhunFred said:

If you get a visa extension, does it make a difference?  OF COURSE it's "shady". Just about half of everything here is "shady". We call it bribery, they call it "business". 

Of course it matters. IO require an embassy letter to certify proof of income. What would be the point in someone certifying your income documents? 

 

I was in there yesterday, it's a visa agency who will do a bit of photocopying for you on the side.

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If everything is legit (money in bank and seasoned properly), more 3K is too much. 3000 + 1900 immigration fee. So approximately 5000. I won't pay more than 5K

If no money (loan and seasoning waiver), 10K (10K for loan and seasoning waiver + 3K + 1.9K). That will be fare price. 

Agreed but (as everybody does) I'm thinking about my personal situation where I'm still working (In Singapore) & I really don't have time to run around so I'm happy to pay a fee if I believe it gives me value - 20K to me sounds fair (I have the money in the Bank so hopefully can get it cheaper).

 

To give an example of my thinking, I recently signed up for the Silver package (20K) with these guys   http://www.thailongstay.co.th/promotion.html

... as it gives me unlimited Fast Track Immigration (Arrival & Departures), some people might think that's a complete waste of money, but I do approx 10 days in Singapore then 5 days in Bangkok so travel 2-3 times a month - This saves me 4-6 hours per month & means I don't care if the cheapest flight is arriving at peak hours as I know I'm going to be through immigration in 10 or so minutes.

 

But if I wasn't working & was only travelling in/out 3-5 times a year, I agree it would be completely not worth it.

 

For 21K I could have got their Gold Package where they help you to get your 1st Non-O (I spent more than that going to Penang to get mine) BUT they seem very genuine so I would imagine you would have to have the 800K in the Bank.

 

 

[yodsak]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Someone posted a 40K offer from there, if I recall correctly - but I perhaps it was for non-o stamp plus marriage-based extension.  That would be 2 "difficult desks" in a row, which would cost more to get through the system.

 

The retirement-desk in Jomtien is easy-going - probably because they have massive volume, so do not request as much 'extra', per agent-submitted application.

 current price from tick tock.

 

re: jomtien,     yes,,   correct, massive volume from all over the country,

economies of scale,  

 

   cambodia-inter 15 mth,,   the cheapest in patts @21,500 for 15 mth,

looking forward to extra business in 6 mths time 

 

the married ppls over 50  go for retirement visa,  easy, hassle free ,no hoops @ 12,900

 

was at cambodia-inter today.   they don't do verification, never heard of it,,,  fake news IMHO

time will tell

 

HTH

[yodsak]

3 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Just past "Katsiree Restaurant and Inn"

 

no ,thats the old ''visa shop''.     now a tattoo shop,,

cambodia-inter opposite side ,past soi diana 300 mtrs  purple shop,,

[KhunFred]

11 minutes ago, yodsak said:

no ,thats the old ''visa shop''.     now a tattoo shop,,

cambodia-inter opposite side ,past soi diana 300 mtrs  purple shop,,

Thanks, I was just going by the map they have on their web page. You would think they would bother to update it, wouldn't you??

 

[bkk6060]

54 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

 I won't pay more than 5K

 

Then don't even think about it because no agent will ever take your business......

Edited November 28, 2018 by bkk6060