Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[aright]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

u really are a master of context manipulation.

A democratic event is an event where all can participate as opposed to being restricted, nothing to do with results.

Had there been a majority margin involved the referendum would have still been democratic, irrespective of what you think.

"You really are a master of context manipulation."

Thank you! That's what all the girls on Soi Buakhao tell me!

Thanks for defining for me what a democratic event is, I was aware, but can you explain to me in less confused terms how anything I said is in direct contrast to what you said?

As for democratic events/decisions having nothing to do with results....tell that to Remainers………..but they already know don't they?

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Brexit isn't designed for compromise- that's really the main problem.  

there is some space for compromise

 

there is a slim continuum between may-deal and no-deal

parliament can fill this space with rulez that government has to follow

in the parts of the deal that is controllable by UK.

maybe something meaningful can be made out of that

 

frequent reporting to parliament

government to follow directions given by parliament

 

ie, parliament in control

 

government not keen on operating under guidance - ditch it

 

[roo860]

Spoons open already, I love a full English with a few beers on a Sunday, sets me up till dinner.

Dry ya eyes

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sanemax]

Just now, roo860 said:

Spoons open already, I love a full English with a few beers on a Sunday, sets me up till dinner.

 

If you seer a big fat bloke in there with a shaven head and a Union Jack suit on, ask him how hes getting on, aint seen him for a while

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

It is only those with a distorted concept of democracy that would think that. UK democracy is based on elected representatives and nothing has changed.

 

democracy

noun

 UK  /dɪˈmɒk.rə.si/ US  /-ˈmɑː.krə-/

B2 [ U ] the belief in freedom and equality between people, or a system of government based on this belief, in which power is either held by elected representatives or directly by the people themselves:

The government has promised to uphold the principles of democracy.

The early 1990s saw the spread of democracy in Eastern Europe.

B2 [ C ] a country in which power is held by elected representatives:

Few of the Western democracies still have a royal family.

(Definition of “democracy” from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press)

Trying to change the meaning of the word "democracy" in order to change a democratic vote on a single issue ?

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Full marks for alliteration, though - and that applies to both of you! 

 Thanks. 

 

But my post was not alliterative.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Trying to change the meaning of the word "democracy" in order to change a democratic vote on a single issue ?

Nothing in your quoted definition to say that voters are not allowed to change their minds on that issue and must not be given the opportunity to express that change of mind..

 

Although you may find such a rider in Putin's definition!

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Nothing in your quoted definition to say that voters are not allowed to change their minds on that issue and must not be given the opportunity to express that change of mind..

 

Although you may find such a rider in Putin's definition!

We have had this discussion before .

Once you have caste your vote in the ballot box and the votes have been counted , you cannot go back and change that vote .

   Although you can vote differently in future elections, you cannot go back and change your vote .

  Once Brexit has happened , you can then request another vote on a referendum about rejoining the E,U .

   You can change your mind NEXT time, BUT you cannot change your mind LAST time 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

This is not some abstract philosophical construct. No one has ever left the EU, particularly not when they have been members for 42 years. It has become glaringly apparent now to all who have their eyes open that leaving would entail huge economic risks and dislocation of millions of people both EU citizens here and UK citizens abroad. It is no longer a pig in a poke. We are better informed now and then the so-called negotiations of leaving by May et al has been an epic failure of Suez type proportions. Asking for a second referendum under these circumstances is not just wise but the right thing to do. David Davies has a lot to answer for and he resigned rather than take responsibility. Like Boris and Farage and Cameron before them. You should reserve your anger at these folk - Lions led by Donkeys. 

 

 

 

The British government has already stated that those citizens of the E.u that are already here,can remain, and this has been pointed out numerous times on these threads. So why do you continue to sAy the opposite.

 You are correct that people are far better informed regarding the + and - of remaining in the E.u. Thanks to the internet, we were far more informed in 2016 than in 1975 when we were conned into what we thought was a trading block.

 

 

 

[Krataiboy]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Thanks. 

 

But my post was not alliterative.

I meant this one. . . 

 

Another witty and erudite response; worthy of Wilde or Shaw at their best!

 

Substitute wacky for erudite (couldn't find a synonym for erudite beginning with W, so went for an anyonym!) and its music to the ears.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Lions deceived and backstabbed by t may and her remaining civil servants!!!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Was’t it a German general who said during w.w.1 

that the British are Lions led by Generals.  Well he was correct, and that is what the present day leader of Germany has thought throughout the 2019 surrender discussions.

[nontabury]

25 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We have had this discussion before .

Once you have caste your vote in the ballot box and the votes have been counted , you cannot go back and change that vote .

   Although you can vote differently in future elections, you cannot go back and change your vote .

  Once Brexit has happened , you can then request another vote on a referendum about rejoining the E,U .

   You can change your mind NEXT time, BUT you cannot change your mind LAST time 

Don’t confuse him,he’s still trying to work out the meaning of Democracy.

[billd766]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Was’t it a German general who said during w.w.1 

that the British are Lions led by Generals.  Well he was correct, and that is what the present day leader of Germany has thought throughout the 2019 surrender discussions.

Actually it was Lions led by Donkeys.

 

Sorry but I was a bit bored so I thought I would look it up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_led_by_donkeys#Origin_of_the_phrase

 

he origin of the phrase pre-dates the First World War. Plutarch attributed to Chabrias the saying that "an army of deer commanded by a lion is more to be feared than an army of lions commanded by a deer".[5][6] An ancient Arabian proverb says "An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep".[citation needed] During the Crimean War, a letter was reportedly sent home by a British soldier quoting a Russian officer who had said that British soldiers were "lions commanded by donkeys".[7] This was immediately after the failure to storm the fortress of Sevastopol which, if true, would take the saying back to 1854–5. The phrase is quoted in Anna Stoddart's 1906 book 'The Life of Isabella Bird' in the scene where Isabella, en route for America in 1854, passes a troopship taking the Scot's Greys out to Balaclava.

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We have had this discussion before .

Once you have caste your vote in the ballot box and the votes have been counted , you cannot go back and change that vote .

   Although you can vote differently in future elections, you cannot go back and change your vote .

  Once Brexit has happened , you can then request another vote on a referendum about rejoining the E,U .

   You can change your mind NEXT time, BUT you cannot change your mind LAST time 

Correct, you cannot change your vote once it has been cast. The result of the 2016 referendum cannot be changed.

 

But no one is suggesting that it should be!

 

What myself and an ever growing number of people want is to be granted the opportunity to vote again, the opportunity to change our minds and vote differently. The opportunity to do so before Brexit becomes irrevocable. Once we are out, we are out. The time to change the decision to leave is before that happens.

 

That you want to deny us that democratic opportunity is all the evidence required to show that you are afraid the result will be different this time.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

What myself and an ever growing number of people want is to be granted the opportunity to vote again, the opportunity to change our minds and vote differently. The opportunity to do so before Brexit becomes irrevocable. Once we are out, we are out. The time to change the decision to leave is before that happens.

What if an even bigger majority vote to leave second time around?

Will you be wanting best of five?

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

I meant this one. . . 

 

Another witty and erudite response; worthy of Wilde or Shaw at their best!

 

Substitute wacky for erudite (couldn't find a synonym for erudite beginning with W, so went for an anyonym!) and its music to the ears.

 

Changing the words of my post in order to make it slightly alliterative?

 

Have you nothing better to do?

[7by7]

Just now, BritManToo said:

What if an even bigger majority vote to leave second time around?

Will you be wanting best of five?

No.

 

As I have said many times, the electorate were taken for a ride last time by Leave's lies spin and refusal to discuss the real issues; and Remains' campaign was a appallingly badly run.

 

Then there is the many irregularities in Leave's campaign discovered by the Electoral Commission, some of which could still lead to criminal prosecutions. All of which would have led to the result being declared void and the referendum rerun had it been legally binding*.

 

If a better informed electorate combined with proper, legal campaigning results again in leave, then I will accept it.

 

*Cameron's promise before the vote that the result would be carried out and May's continuing support for that promise does not make the result legally binding. Only an Act of Parliament could have done that.

Quote

In fact, the government recognised the need to make these things explicit in 2011, when Parliament passed the legislation to allow for a referendum on electoral reform. Section 8 of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011 makes very clear that the government would have to enact a new voting system in the event of a “yes” vote.

 

There was no such provision in the EU Referendum Act, which in legal terms means that the result was not binding.

(Source)

 

[Krataiboy]

56 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You are correct that people are far better informed regarding the + and - of remaining in the E.u. Thanks to the internet, we were far more informed in 2016 than in 1975 when we were conned into what we thought was a trading block.

 

 

 

 

It's no good Remainers blaming a "dishonest" Brexit campaign for fooling 17.4 million Brits into voting for what they consider to be a dog's dinner.

 

The Government spent fifty million pounds of our money urging us to remain. President Obama jetted over and begged us to remain. The EU advised us to remain. George Soros and other globalist "philanthropists" poured their millions into persuading us to remain.  

 

Just to shorten the odds still further, our entire negotiating team were remainers, as of course are the overwhelming majority of MPs.

 

Yet despite all that money and all the unfriendly persuasion of Project Fear, a majority of the British people stuck up two fingers and still voted LEAVE. That was the real a people's vote!

 

It wasn't a democratic referendum. Not by a mile. But the result was - and still is - a triumph for democracy. Now all those paid servants in Westminster have to do is make it stick!

[talahtnut]

3 years of intensive government MSM programming proves how easily people can be led to their own destruction.

[sanemax]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Then there is the many irregularities in Leave's campaign discovered by the Electoral Commission, some of which could still lead to criminal prosecutions. All of which would have led to the result being declared void and the referendum rerun had it been legally binding*.

 

What are they then ?

Or doesnt the search function go back that far ?

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

It wasn't a democratic referendum. Not by a mile

Well, you got one thing right!

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

3 years of intensive government MSM programming proves how easily people can be led to their own destruction.

But the people are now showing a desire to prevent that destruction and reverse the decision before it's too late.

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What are they then ?

Or doesnt the search function go back that far ?

 The forum's search engine doesn't; but that's not needed as the Electoral Commission published the results of their investigations on their own site, not here!

 

Vote Leave fined and referred to the police for breaking electoral law

Quote

Published: 17 Jul 2018

The Electoral Commission has today published the conclusions of its investigation into the campaign spending of Vote Leave and a number of other campaigners, and has found Vote Leave and Darren Grimes broke electoral law.

 

 

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The forum's search engine doesn't; but that's not needed as the Electoral Commission published the results of their investigations on their own site, not here!

 

Vote Leave fined and referred to the police for breaking electoral law

 

 

Yes, there were some financial irregularities and they got fined for that  , but what are the outstanding irregularities that are being investigated that could lead to a prosecution ?

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, there were some financial irregularities and they got fined for that  , but what are the outstanding irregularities that are being investigated that could lead to a prosecution ?

Read the report; the full version of which is linked to from the press release.

 

Here it is again:-

Report of an investigation in respect of Vote Leave Limited - Mr Darren Grimes - BeLeave - Veterans for Britain Concerning campaign funding and spending for the 2016 referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU.

I'm not going to place a lengthy quote here and incur @evadgib's wrath whilst putting @Krataiboy to sleep!

 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Read the report; the full version of which is linked to from the press release.

 

Here it is again:-

Report of an investigation in respect of Vote Leave Limited - Mr Darren Grimes - BeLeave - Veterans for Britain Concerning campaign funding and spending for the 2016 referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU.

I'm not going to place a lengthy quote here and incur @evadgib's wrath whilst putting @Krataiboy to sleep!

 

Read a 39 page report !!!!!!!!!

No , cannot be bothered 

Cannot even be bothered just asking you to state what the outstanding issues are 

[bomber]

2 hours ago, roo860 said:

Spoons open already, I love a full English with a few beers on a Sunday, sets me up till dinner.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Iam out of the UK at the moment..i needed a holiday and didnt fancy being around on the 30th of march for the party that didnt happen????????????????

[sanemax]

Just now, bomber said:

Iam out of the UK at the moment..i needed a holiday and didnt fancy being around on the 30th of march for the party that didnt happen????????????????

You had better be careful, IF it does go through on the 30 th , the UK may not let you back in again 

[bomber]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

You had better be careful, IF it does go through on the 30 th , the UK may not let you back in again 

Ya dreamin again...i will be gone anyway soon...and you

[Krataiboy]

7by7: Cameron's promise before the vote that the result would be carried out and May's continuing support for that promise does not make the result legally binding.

 

No, just morally binding - a concept which clearly means nothing to our venal politicians, the chattering classes and Establishment-friendly mass media who threw themselves behind the Remain campaign.

 

But morality certainly does matter to the millions of so-called "ordinary" Brits, as they demonstrated devastatingly with the "shock" referendum result - a shock only to the self-proclaimed elite, trapped in their myopic little bubbles of narcissm and self-interest, and one from which they are still reeling.

 

Well, tough, chaps. Some of us only learn the hard way.