Ukraine's Poroshenko - Putin wants my whole country

[BestB]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ukraine was sovereign Ukraine territory. Fact.
It was stolen by Russia.
Fact.
The election there was illegal and a sham.
For it to be legal all of Ukraine would have needed to consent.
Fact.
Yes there is a separatist movement in Eastern Ukraine strongly supported by Russia.
If they fully succeed whether they become a separate country or merge with Russia is not a big difference.
You can shill for Russia all you want but that doesn't mean you're going to fool many people that aren't already Putin partisans.
I accept that you refuse to reveal your affiliation. People are free to make assumptions.

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When was Ukraine a sovereign territory?

 

When was it stolen by Russia?

 

Which elections in Ukraine were illegal and a sham? the US sponsored cue which over threw democratically elected president or which one are you referring to?

 

Being strongly supported does not translate into Putin wanting to invade Ukraine, may be  in your fantasy world it does, but most certainly not in reality

 

Even assuming the nonsense you posted about East Ukraine being correct, then it would mean Russia would want ONLY East Ukraine and would have already held a referendum and annexed it.

 

Will await for your clarifications to the questions raised

[Jingthing]

When was Ukraine a sovereign territory?

 

When was it stolen by Russia?

 

Which elections in Ukraine were illegal and a sham? the US sponsored cue which over threw democratically elected president or which one are you referring to?

 

Being strongly supported does not translate into Putin wanting to invade Ukraine, may be  in your fantasy world it does, but most certainly not in reality

 

Even assuming the nonsense you posted about East Ukraine being correct, then it would mean Russia would want ONLY East Ukraine and would have already held a referendum and annexed it.

 

Will await for your clarifications to the questions raised

Crimea is part of the sovereign nation of Ukraine.

Russia stole Crimea.

Illegally.

You can't white or Putin wash that fact.

An illegal election in Crimea doesn't cut it.

I get the propaganda tools of acting that things that happened didn't happen but that doesn't work for everyone.

 

 

Dude your game is obvious. Just repeat the big lie that Putin isn't a bad player in Ukrainian affairs and hope some misinformed people will buy that. Waste of your time trying that game on me.

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[BestB]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Crimea is part of the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
Russia stole Crimea.
Illegally.
You can't white or Putin wash that fact.
An illegal election in Crimea doesn't cut it.
I get the propaganda tools of acting that things that happened didn't happen but that doesn't work for everyone.

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Not surprised by yet another deflection, only now even from your own post

 

Crimea,more than half of its 2 million people are Russian, and Russia still maintains a naval base there. In fact, the region was part of Russia until 1954, when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine as a present. When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, Crimea became part of an independent Ukraine

 

Holding referendum is hardly stealing neither is taking something back which was yours.

 

Hardly much different to Kosovo, only Kosovo was accepted because it suited NATO, even though Russia was against it, now that Russia did the Kosovo with Crimea, all over sudden its an outrage.

 

[marqus12]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Crimea is part of the sovereign nation of Ukraine.

Russia stole Crimea.

Illegally.

You can't white or Putin wash that fact.

An illegal election in Crimea doesn't cut it.

I get the propaganda tools of acting that things that happened didn't happen but that doesn't work for everyone.

 

 

Dude your game is obvious. Just repeat the big lie that Putin isn't a bad player in Ukrainian affairs and hope some misinformed people will buy that. Waste of your time trying that game on me.

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Russia to get loans promised Crimea give to Jews that

the Jews set up their own state.
And then the Russians did not want to keep their promise
so they gave away Crimea to Ukrainians

Crimea never really belonged to Ukraine

[Jingthing]

Russia to get loans promised Crimea give to Jews that
the Jews set up their own state.
And then the Russians did not want to keep their promise
so they gave away Crimea to Ukrainians

Crimea never really belonged to Ukraine

Yeah it's the Jews now.
Of course Crimea belonged to Ukraine.
I get that bully Russia has successfully stolen it but its time to hold the line.

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[Nilats]

A few things to note here about Ukraine. It was gifted independence by Russia's Yeltsin - they didn't fight for it, they never even specifically asked for it - they were just gifted independence in the chaos of USSR collapse.

 

Another thing - Ukraine is a failed state since around 2010 - 100% due to internal mismanagement and corruption. At the moment and in reality since the 2008-9 financial crisis - Ukraine is doing as bad as Afghanistan and worse than Nepal economically. Ukraine has the worst demographics trend in the world - Negative 23 Percent growth since independence in 1992... the World has not seen such demographic trends since medieval times usually caused by famine or plagues like the one called the Black Death in medieval times. It doesn't generate any value has tons of internally generated ethnic political etc problems so I don't understand why would anybody want this "country" for free ???? Anybody who claims so should at least write a paragraph explaining why they believe anybody would want this troubled, corrupt, broke, hopeless region to begin with.

[BestB]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah it's the Jews now.
Of course Crimea belonged to Ukraine.
I get that bully Russia has successfully stolen it but its time to hold the line.

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You have just been given historical fact and yet you continue with the nonsense.

[Jingthing]

 

Not surprised by yet another deflection, only now even from your own post

 

Crimea,more than half of its 2 million people are Russian, and Russia still maintains a naval base there. In fact, the region was part of Russia until 1954, when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine as a present. When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, Crimea became part of an independent Ukraine

 

Holding referendum is hardly stealing neither is taking something back which was yours.

 

Hardly much different to Kosovo, only Kosovo was accepted because it suited NATO, even though Russia was against it, now that Russia did the Kosovo with Crimea, all over sudden its an outrage.

 

I know the history. Duh.

Again you can't hold a legal vote in a section of a country on being annexed.

It would only be legal if all of Ukraine agreed.

 

 

What's next? Southern Thailand voting to become Malaysia without all of Thailand consenting?

 

El Paso Texas joining Mexico because it used to be Mexico and Spanish is spoken there?

 

Sell it to someone who's buying.

 

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[Jingthing]

 
Not surprised by yet another deflection, only now even from your own post
 
Crimea,more than half of its 2 million people are Russian, and Russia still maintains a naval base there. In fact, the region was part of Russia until 1954, when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine as a present. When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, Crimea became part of an independent Ukraine
 
Holding referendum is hardly stealing neither is taking something back which was yours.
 
Hardly much different to Kosovo, only Kosovo was accepted because it suited NATO, even though Russia was against it, now that Russia did the Kosovo with Crimea, all over sudden its an outrage.
 

I know the history. Duh.
Again you can't hold a legal vote in a section of a country on being annexed.
It would only be legal if all of Ukraine agreed.


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[BestB]

3 minutes ago, Nilats said:

A few things to note here about Ukraine. It was gifted independence by Russia's Yeltsin - they didn't fight for it, they never even specifically asked for it - they were just gifted independence in the chaos of USSR collapse.

 

Another thing - Ukraine is a failed state since around 2010 - 100% due to internal mismanagement and corruption. At the moment and in reality since the 2008-9 financial crisis - Ukraine is doing as bad as Afghanistan and worse than Nepal economically. Ukraine has the worst demographics trend in the world - Negative 23 Percent growth since independence in 1992... the World has not seen such demographic trends since medieval times usually caused by famine or plagues like the one called the Black Death in medieval times. It doesn't generate any value has tons of internally generated ethnic political etc problems so I don't understand why would anybody want this "country" for free ???? Anybody who claims so should at least write a paragraph explaining why they believe anybody would want this troubled, corrupt, broke, hopeless region to begin with.

I think you may find Ukraine was a chaos for many centuries before that. ????

[Jingthing]

You have just been given historical fact and yet you continue with the nonsense.

Sure it's nonsense that Crimea didn't belong to Ukraine on Planet Putin.

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[Jingthing]

I think you may find Ukraine was a chaos for many centuries before that. [emoji6]

So what? It's now a sovereign nation state under threat of a big bully neighbor.

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[marqus12]

Ukraine should be divided by all neighbors
And the Ukrainian state should only be Kiev and surroundings 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I know the history. Duh.
Again you can't hold a legal vote in a section of a country on being annexed.
It would only be legal if all of Ukraine agreed.


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Well clearly you do not.

 

First you claimed Ukraine was sovereign Ukraine territory. when asked when, you decided to deflect and go on some rant. 

 

You then also claimed It was stolen by Russia. Once again when asked when was Ukraine stolen by Russia?It went the same way as the first "fact" in to a rant
 

You then claimed The election there was illegal and a sham, Which election or coup you referring to,did not get an answer at all

 

Now you have been given historical fact of Crimea being a gift to Ukraine from former USSR and Crimea belonged to Russia and yet once again some rant denying history.

 

Time to quit buddy and stop embarrassing yourself

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So what? It's now a sovereign nation state under threat of a big bully neighbor.

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It is under no threat, the only threat is the clown called Poroshenko who keeps dreaming up incidents to create a problem

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

Ukraine should be divided by all neighbors
And the Ukrainian state should only be Kiev and surroundings 

Like Liechtenstein, Poroshenko can be the chocolate king????

[Jingthing]

Well clearly you do not.

 

First you claimed Ukraine was sovereign Ukraine territory. when asked when, you decided to deflect and go on some rant. 

 

You then also claimed It was stolen by Russia. Once again when asked when was Ukraine stolen by Russia?It went the same way as the first "fact" in to a rant
 

You then claimed The election there was illegal and a sham, Which election or coup you referring to,did not get an answer at all

 

Now you have been given historical fact of Crimea being a gift to Ukraine from former USSR and Crimea belonged to Russia and yet once again some rant denying history.

 

Time to quit buddy and stop embarrassing yourself

Dude that was obviously a brain fart. I clearly was talking about the situation in Crimea which I quickly clarified. You're not really interested in honest debate. More like cheap gotcha attacks to achieve character assassination so you can claim a win for your transparent Putin propaganda.

Yes I know the history and the history includes Russia stealing Crimea from the sovereign nation of Ukraine. You can't fake that it didn't happen with all the obnoxious tricks in the world.

 

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[BestB]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Dude that was obviously a brain fart. I clearly was talking about the situation in Crimea which I quickly clarified. You're not really interested in honest debate. More like cheap gotcha attacks to achieve character assassination so you can claim a win for your transparent Putin propaganda.
Yes I know the history and the history includes Russia stealing Crimea from the sovereign nation of Ukraine. You can't fake that it didn't happen with all the obnoxious trucks in the world.

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Dude, i can not read your mind, i can only read what you post

 

Also dude save your Putin bashing for another audience.

 

You have not shown even 1 instance which proves your theory of Putin wanting to control Ukraine.

 

Again for the 4th or 5th time, Crimea was historically Russian

 

Crimea held referendum no different To Kosovo and Kosovo was accepted.

 

Nothing was stolen, but for political purposes, clearly Russia having control of Black Sea is not in the interest of NATO.

 

These are the facts, accept it and move on.

 

The only one screaming Russians invading is Poroshenko and turns out you,all because you have a personal grudge against Putin.

 

 

[Jingthing]

It is under no threat, the only threat is the clown called Poroshenko who keeps dreaming up incidents to create a problem

Yeah sure the Putin backed separatists in eastern Ukraine no problem at all.

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[BestB]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yeah sure the Putin backed separatists in eastern Ukraine no problem at all.

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None what so ever, as they are not interested in expanding their control, they just do not want to be under Kievs control.

 

May have something to do with Kiev wanting to put them in camps

 

But do not let facts get in a way of yet another  good Putin bashing

[Jingthing]

None what so ever, as they are not interested in expanding their control, they just do not want to be under Kievs control.

 

May have something to do with Kiev wanting to put them in camps

 

But do not let facts get in a way of yet another  good Putin bashing

They want to separate and join Russia.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that right?

So in your pro Russian imagination you can't conceive how that's a threat to Ukraine?

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[BestB]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They want to separate and join Russia.

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Well thats a little different to Putin wanting to invade or control Ukraine, NO?

[Jingthing]

Well thats a little different to Putin wanting to invade or control Ukraine, NO?

It's a threat to Ukraine. They already lost Crimea.

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[BestB]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a threat to Ukraine. They already lost Crimea.

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Again, this is not Putin wanting to invade Ukraine, not putting wanting to control Ukraine and not Russians are invading. 

[Jingthing]

Again, this is not Putin wanting to invade Ukraine, not putting wanting to control Ukraine and not Russians are invading. 

They did take over Crimea. No amount of Putinesque spin changes that. Putin does support the armed Eastern Ukraine separatists even with Russian soldiers. Also you can't act like that isn't true. Changing uniforms fools nobody.

 

 

Why not just own up to being a pro Russian partisan instead of acting like you're making objective fact based arguments?

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[BestB]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They did take over Crimea. No amount of Putinesque spin changes that. Putin does support the armed Eastern Ukraine separatists even with Russian soldiers. Also you can't act like that isn't true. Changing uniforms fools nobody.

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And back to nonsense we go.

Russian army is not there, if individuals chose to cross and fight it does not translate into Putin wanting control or invading, no matter what spin you put on it, facts remain fact.

 

In East Ukraine, they never tried to advance or take over any other territory, if Russian army was there, they would have been   in Kiev 4 years ago drinking vodka on top of parliament house, instead of chasing rogue Ukrainian boats and putting up with Ukranian insults and debt non payment

 

 

[marqus12]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They did take over Crimea. No amount of Putinesque spin changes that. Putin does support the armed Eastern Ukraine separatists even with Russian soldiers. Also you can't act like that isn't true. Changing uniforms fools nobody.

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You seem to be a Ukrainian...

 

how many men are between 18 and 68 years old in

your fallen country ... 10? 15? millions ..are there any at all?
What are you doing in Thailand? Why do not you fight for

your homeland? if something like that happened in

my country I would not be sitting here...I would burn

on the front .

Ukrainians behave like a woman who got drunk

unconscious, opened the legs for everyone willing
and on the next day she screams that she was raped.

if you fought, maybe you would deserve some respect
even as Banderists ruffians 
And if you do not really fight,so go to hell

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

You seem to be a Ukrainian...

 

how many men are between 18 and 68 years old in

your fallen country ... 10? 15? millions ..are there any at all?
What are you doing in Thailand? Why do not you fight for

your homeland? if something like that happened in

my country I would not be sitting here...I would burn

on the front .

Ukrainians behave like a woman who got drunk

unconscious, opened the legs for everyone willing
and on the next day she screams that she was raped.

if you fought, maybe you would deserve some respect
even as Banderists ruffians 
And if you do not really fight,so go to hell

No I'm American.

My grandparents lived in Ukraine when it was Russia and fled for their lives first to Cuba. 

Don't make assumptions. I am not pro Ukraine or pro Russia in this conflict. I just think Ukraine deserves to keep their sovereign lands just as any other sovereign nation. If Ukraine was stealing Russian land, I would oppose that too. 
 

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, BestB said:

And back to nonsense we go.

Russian army is not there, if individuals chose to cross and fight it does not translate into Putin wanting control or invading, no matter what spin you put on it, facts remain fact.

 

In East Ukraine, they never tried to advance or take over any other territory, if Russian army was there, they would have been   in Kiev 4 years ago drinking vodka on top of parliament house, instead of chasing rogue Ukrainian boats and putting up with Ukranian insults and debt non payment

 

 

Yeah, sure, no Russian soldiers have been involved. Do you really think people are that stupid? Russians know the facts too and they like it. All you're doing is spreading propaganda. 

[BestB]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, sure, no Russian soldiers have been involved. Do you really think people are that stupid? Russians know the facts too and they like it. All you're doing is spreading propaganda. 

Well let’s see, right now clown declared martial law because Russia is invading . So please show me evidence of Russia invading ?

 

Back in 2014 same clown was also screaming Russia invading and Russian army is in Ukraine . Yet no martial law was declared 

 

So tell me were they invading then or invading now and explain for the stupid people with so much proof of Russian army being in Ukraine , any reason why martial law was not declared ?