BMW 310R Poblems

[canthai55]

55 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Maybe one day when bikes are built virtually completely by robots we'll have less quality variation because as long as humans are assembling the parts and checking them, there will be mistakes.

Can not agree with this. Race bikes are assembled by hand. Heads flow bench tested by hand.

Robots have their place, but in my mind the outsourcing has hurt all brands. In the name of cost cutting, and trying to remain competitive in the marketplace.

In this country - much as I want a Multistrada, if it can not be fixed here why would I want one ?

Buy what is common here, easily repaired, parts on the shelf.

Or have a dozen bikes so you always have something to ride.

[OneMoreFarang]

As far as I understand it the local dealer offered you to repair it.

And as far as I see that is the first time it happened.

Give them a chance!

If they tried to repair it already and if they failed (same problem again after a short while) then I think you have the right to demand better service.

But for the first time with this problem they offer you to repair it and you say: "no, I want a new one". That won't win you any friends. And I can't imagine contacting BMW Thailand or even Germany about something which can easily solved locally will make your situations any better.

 

Why don't you give the local dealer a chance to repair it. Maybe they do it in a day or two and then you are happy and they are happy. Win/win.

[eisfeld]

31 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Can not agree with this. Race bikes are assembled by hand. Heads flow bench tested by hand.

Robots have their place, but in my mind the outsourcing has hurt all brands. In the name of cost cutting, and trying to remain competitive in the marketplace.

In this country - much as I want a Multistrada, if it can not be fixed here why would I want one ?

Buy what is common here, easily repaired, parts on the shelf.

Or have a dozen bikes so you always have something to ride.

I see your point but racing is something different imho. It's not economical to build robots that assemble a handful of bikes for racing. Instead you have highly competent staff that make mistakes as unlikely as possible. It is a very different thing when it comes to mass production where robots take over more and more of the manufacturing process which actually reduces costs compared to human labor and having staff that is as skilled as the guys who assemble bikes for racing would be infeasable. Robots will also counter the trend of outsourcing, I'm pretty confident. They can produce near perfect results, consistently all the time, every time, 24/7 with no vacations ???? They are just limited currently in what parts of the process they can do (economically) but that's improving rapidly. Think about it this way: everyone with at least a phone has in his pocket has something that contains a CPU which was 100% robot made and contains structures down to a few atoms thick. The technology is there, it's just a matter of bringing the prices down to make it viable. And that's 100% going to happen.

 

On your point regarding outsourcing having hurt all brands. Yes I agree on that. It's not a bad thing per se - outsourcing your breaks to Brembo isn't going to make things word qualit wise - but many times outsourcing when done to reduce costs brings in numerous issues - the biggest one is the control over the third party.

 

Your final point about the dozen bikes though is 100% the correct solution for all bike problems anywhere for everyone ???? If you have N bikes then the correct number of bikes in the garage is N+1 bikes.

[eisfeld]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As far as I understand it the local dealer offered you to repair it.

And as far as I see that is the first time it happened.

Give them a chance!

If they tried to repair it already and if they failed (same problem again after a short while) then I think you have the right to demand better service.

But for the first time with this problem they offer you to repair it and you say: "no, I want a new one". That won't win you any friends. And I can't imagine contacting BMW Thailand or even Germany about something which can easily solved locally will make your situations any better.

 

Why don't you give the local dealer a chance to repair it. Maybe they do it in a day or two and then you are happy and they are happy. Win/win.

Fair point of view. It all depends on the amount of damage I think. E.g.

 

Has the bike run with a lot of oil lost for a while? => Potential damage to parts inside due to overheating.

Has oil spilled all over the place? => Potentially super difficult to clean and can result in safety problems

 

But if it was just a bit of oil dripping down then ok, that should not have caused too much problems and be relatively easy to repair. My Ducati had 3 oil leaks from the filter and each time they just gave me a new filter and cleaned it a bit because the leaks were very small. I was OK with that.

 

Also one needs to allow some time for the dealer to communicate with BMW. Personally I'd give them a week to reply before even checking with them what's up. In my case the process took a few weeks and I made sure I didn't stress anyone out too much. Especially because it seems it wasn't the dealers fault so don't be all too hard on them. They are basically your communication platform with BMW.

[d4291797]

Fair point of view. It all depends on the amount of damage I think. E.g.
 
Has the bike run with a lot of oil lost for a while? => Potential damage to parts inside due to overheating.
Has oil spilled all over the place? => Potentially super difficult to clean and can result in safety problems
 
But if it was just a bit of oil dripping down then ok, that should not have caused too much problems and be relatively easy to repair. My Ducati had 3 oil leaks from the filter and each time they just gave me a new filter and cleaned it a bit because the leaks were very small. I was OK with that.
 
Also one needs to allow some time for the dealer to communicate with BMW. Personally I'd give them a week to reply before even checking with them what's up. In my case the process took a few weeks and I made sure I didn't stress anyone out too much. Especially because it seems it wasn't the dealers fault so don't be all too hard on them. They are basically your communication platform with BMW.

Now the bike was one day old, not two years!

Yes for sure the dealer is piggy in the middle, as obviously the bike came out of the factory with this defect.

Sorry to have to repeat myself.

But I expect the bike to be returned to me in new condition.

If the dealer is able to return the bike in just this condition, then yes a win win.

But it is a very big if!

A top end re build ,with tank removal etc is no easy task, if scratches etc are to be avoided.

Now also there is no quarantee it is the gasket!

Frankly ,the fairest outcome, is for BMW to supply a new bike.

Dealer and customer happy, and BMW sort out their Lemmon !


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[papa al]

18 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

 

Now the bike was one day old, not two years!

Yes for sure the dealer is piggy in the middle, as obviously the bike came out of the factory with this defect.

Sorry to have to repeat myself.

But I expect the bike to be returned to me in new condition.

If the dealer is able to return the bike in just this condition, then yes a win win.

But it is a very big if!

A top end re build ,with tank removal etc is no easy task, if scratches etc are to be avoided.

Now also there is no quarantee it is the gasket!

Frankly ,the fairest outcome, is for BMW to supply a new bike.

Dealer and customer happy, and BMW sort out their Lemmon !


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...like we used to say in the army, you're:

'screwed, blued and tattooed.'

Never understood the 'blued & tattooed' part,

but it rhymed.

????

[OneMoreFarang]

33 minutes ago, d4291797 said:

 

 

Now the bike was one day old, not two years!

Yes for sure the dealer is piggy in the middle, as obviously the bike came out of the factory with this defect.

Sorry to have to repeat myself.

But I expect the bike to be returned to me in new condition.

If the dealer is able to return the bike in just this condition, then yes a win win.

But it is a very big if!

A top end re build ,with tank removal etc is no easy task, if scratches etc are to be avoided.

Now also there is no quarantee it is the gasket!

Frankly ,the fairest outcome, is for BMW to supply a new bike.

Dealer and customer happy, and BMW sort out their Lemmon !


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Why don't you give them a chance?

Make a couple of pictures before you bring the bike to them.

And after they say it's finished check that all looks alright, nothing is damaged, etc.

If they do a good job: fine.

If they do a bad job then it's time to complain. But in my opinion it's only time to complain if they do a bad job.

 

Removing the cylinder head, cleaning it and installing it again is a lot of work. But as far as I see it's standard work. Any service center should be used to that kind of work.

 

I can understand that you expect a new bike to be 100% ok. If it's not 100% ok and you want that they take it back and you get a brand new bike I would check the legal situation. If they have to then I guess they will do that. But if they don't have to do that then it's pretty unlikely that they will do it because they will never be able to sell your current bike as new again.

Maybe ask a lawyer or maybe you find the legal situation here in the forum. I think: Don't ask for the impossible. If you don't have the legal power to get what you want don't start a "war" which you likely won't win.

[JaiLai]

9 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Forget BMW Thailand. Go to BMW Germany.

They know what social media is ... need I say more.

Take lots of pics, document every bike fault as to date and time, document every action - or lack of - by each party every step of the way.

Then - if and when push comes to shove - you will have a detailed record of events to publish, with a history to back it up.

BMW CNX have had a terrible record for a long time.

I did this with a Ducati FT seat where the material detiorated, went to the dealer got the normal Thai repsonse 'don't drive bike in rain' / 'it's because of where you park it'...

 

Not happy with that went on to Ducati's website in Italy and made a complaint, next day i got a call from Italy and explained the situation, following week the seat was replaced.

 

Straight to HQ, you know you'll not get the level of response from one of these Thai Franchises.

[d4291797]

I did this with a Ducati FT seat where the material detiorated, went to the dealer got the normal Thai repsonse 'don't drive bike in rain' / 'it's because of where you park it'...
 
Not happy with that went on to Ducati's website in Italy and made a complaint, next day i got a call from Italy and explained the situation, following week the seat was replaced.
 
Straight to HQ, you know you'll not get the level of response from one of these Thai Franchises.

JaiLai many thanks for your input.

Guys, I paid for a new bike, and a new bike I want, not one with a rebuilt engine after twenty kms!

Now the dealer has my 100% sympathy.

This drama is at BMW’s door, no question.

They decided to manufacture the 310R in the land of cheap labor, India, to increase profits.

I rest my case.

Now my lawyer is adamant BMW have a case to answer ,under Thai Consumer Protection Laws.

However BMW Motorrad Germany are now very concerned about this issue, and will be persuing it.

Thanks everyone for your input, I will keep you posted.

Cheers.


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[canthai55]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I see your point but racing is something different imho.

Fair enuf. I see your point also.

[d4291797]

Ok we basically had no choice but to entrust our new bike ,that failed after one day, to Barcelona BMW ,for a cylinder head gasket change.

We have our beloved bike back, at this time it is going well.

This is one amazing bike for a short rider.

Sadly the bike was not returned in the condition it was delivered for repair in.
Only ridden on dry roads and 158 km when sent for repair.


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[d4291797]

Ok we basically had no choice but to entrust our new bike ,that failed after one day, to Barcelona BMW ,for a cylinder head gasket change.

We have our beloved bike back, at this time it is going well.

This is one amazing bike for a short rider.

Sadly the bike was not returned in the condition it was delivered for repair in.
Only ridden on dry roads and 158 km when sent for repair.


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[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, d4291797 said:

Sadly the bike was not returned in the condition it was delivered for repair in.

Good that you have you bike back, enjoy!

 

What was different?

I looked at the pictures but I have to admit it's not obvious to me.

 

[taninthai]

Huh it’s done 158 km on dry roads ,,,,is that corrosion,parts of your engine look  like my crf which is 6 years old and been abused in salt water conditions.

[d4291797]

Sorry drama uploading these pics.
They are all of the bike ,after Barcelona BMW had covered the engine with developer and changed the head gasket.

Frankly very disappointed to have a brand new bike returned in this condition.

Will be interesting to see Motorrad BMW Germany’s comments.


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[d4291797]

Ok we basically had no choice but to entrust our new bike ,that failed after one day, to Barcelona BMW ,for a cylinder head gasket change.

We have our beloved bike back, at this time it is going well.

This is one amazing bike for a short rider.

Sadly the bike was not returned in the condition it was delivered for repair in.
Only ridden on dry roads and 158 km when sent for repair.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[d4291797]

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[d4291797]

Ok we basically had no choice but to entrust our new bike ,that failed after one day, to Barcelona BMW ,for a cylinder head gasket change.

We have our beloved bike back, at this time it is going well.

This is one amazing bike for a short rider.

Sadly the bike was not returned in the condition it was delivered for repair in.
Only ridden on dry roads and 158 km when sent for repair.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[d4291797]

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[d4291797]

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[taninthai]

Here is something to compare 6 years old used off road extremely close to the sea 22,000 km done.

i think I would have left the bike in  the shop with them if it come back like that,I’m sure bmw Germany is not going to be happy about them pictures/workmanship.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

34 minutes ago, taninthai said:

i think I would have left the bike in  the shop with them if it come back like that,I’m sure bmw Germany is not going to be happy about them pictures/workmanship.

I agree.

Probably I would have told them something like: It seems I came early and you forgot to clean up after your job. I will come back an hour later. That should give you enough time to clean everything.

That should have solved the problem, without involving BMW Germany - and a lot faster.

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I agree.

Probably I would have told them something like: It seems I came early and you forgot to clean up after your job. I will come back an hour later. That should give you enough time to clean everything.

That should have solved the problem, without involving BMW Germany - and a lot faster.

How do you clean up corrosion on new aluminium parts?

And how do you "clean" up painted aluminium parts where the paint has gone?

For a new(ish) m/c, those pics look pretty goddam awful.

[d4291797]

How do you clean up corrosion on new aluminium parts?
And how do you "clean" up painted aluminium parts where the paint has gone?
For a new(ish) m/c, those pics look pretty goddam awful.

Frankly there was no corrosion, this was a chalky dust like substance, used for tracing leaks.
But expecting an owner of a brand new bike, to be happy with this lack of attention to detail, is beyond belief.

Now my concern is more about the integrity of the work carried out.
For example have the head mating surfaces been scrupulously cleaned, most importantly ,has the head been torqued to the manufacturers spaces!

At this time my emails to the manager Barcelona have been totally ignored.
Motorrad Thailand seem only willing to correspond when I grumble to Germany.

Now to keep the customer happy some BMW jeans were offered, no strings attached.
Now this sweetener has been withdrawn.

There seems to be no integrity here at all, it’s all about saving money.

Again why does a supposed high class company, decide to treat customers in this way, very very short sighted.

The bike is amazing, and an answer to a prayer for short riders.


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[Briggsy]

I explained this in my post on Dec 1. I knew this would happen.

 

Wasting your time with the dealer. They have no incentive (and perhaps no expertise) to fix this.

 

Go to BMW not a Thai dealership (who happen to sell BMW's).

[d4291797]

Just to clarify, we had no choice but to return the bike to the purchasing dealer in Chiang Mai.
Now all warranty work it seems is authorized by Motorrad Thailand.
Motorrad were talking direct to Barcelona service manager.
Basically Motorrad Thailand call the shots.

I would strongly suspect BMW Motorrad Germany would have serious concerns, should they be aware of the level of customer care in Thailand.

It seems if you want to buy with safety, then the only way is to present the retailing dealer a contract, that states, in the event of engine strip necessities etc, within set a time frame, then they have to issue a new machine, no questions asked.


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[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, d4291797 said:

Now to keep the customer happy some BMW jeans were offered, no strings attached.

No belt or braces recquired? ????

.......... sorry, could'nt resist.....

[piston broke]

2 hours ago, d4291797 said:

Just to clarify, we had no choice but to return the bike to the purchasing dealer in Chiang Mai.
Now all warranty work it seems is authorized by Motorrad Thailand.
Motorrad were talking direct to Barcelona service manager.
Basically Motorrad Thailand call the shots.

I would strongly suspect BMW Motorrad Germany would have serious concerns, should they be aware of the level of customer care in Thailand.

It seems if you want to buy with safety, then the only way is to present the retailing dealer a contract, that states, in the event of engine strip necessities etc, within set a time frame, then they have to issue a new machine, no questions asked.


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Which part of Planet Zogg are you from exactly ??

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, piston broke said:

3 hours ago, d4291797 said:

It seems if you want to buy with safety, then the only way is to present the retailing dealer a contract, that states, in the event of engine strip necessities etc, within set a time frame, then they have to issue a new machine, no questions asked.


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Which part of Planet Zogg are you from exactly ??

 

Indeed... no dealer is going to agree to such a contract... of course, as a potentially customer you could argue 'don't sign and I don't buy'.... you'd find yourself relying on taxi's !

 

 

The best option is to deal with BMW directly and have them apply pressure. 

[fruitman]

On 12/2/2018 at 9:49 AM, thaiguzzi said:

Er, sorry to blow your conceptions of which country we are in, but this is actually, er, Thailand.

I don't see on any memorandum for employees of motorcycle dealerships, that staff have to speak English to get a job.

If anything, being a BMW dealership, i'd say maybe management & higher echelons of tech staff would learn German before English.

Jeez.

And here's another thing, i know it's not your God given right to expect all Thais to speak English so that they can all understand you, but hey, here's an idea, how about learning the Thai language............

End of rant...

Ahh there he is, mr knowitall.

 

Let me tell you this...i was in Pattaya 2 weeks ago with my wife and her department...also the big boss joined us.

 

I was smoking outside the hotel with my wife and some of her collegues (all university degree's working in hi-tech). Then i noticed a new boy that i didn't know, he stayed in full sun examining the plants in the beds while wearing a black suit and carrying his notebook...i wondered why he didn't come inside since it was very hot in the sun.

 

Later that night we had seafood dinner, that boy happened to be their new collegue. He took seat far away from me untill his big boss noticed that and told him to go sit next to me...he hesitated but did it, the other collegues were laughing about it so i asked my wife why her big boss ordered him to sit next to me. She said that he was new and during his interview for the job he had confirmed he could speak english...so this was his chance to prove it. (don't cry yet).

I only introduced myself and didn't speak to him but he went to the toilet 4 times during dinner and when i came back from smoking he left to smoke, every time...so he avoided me, fine i don't care. 

I didn't want to speak english to him because when he told me his name i already heared that he wasn't good in it. I gave him the chance to speak to me if he wanted, if not than not...his big boss was sitting oppose me so could see it all.

 

Yes that was hard but he was still lucky i didn't test him out. That's farang style of testing people me thinks and yes at their company they do work with farangs and speaking english if very important...they even have a private english teacher at office where ALL employees have to go many hours a week to learn how to speak fluent english.

 

Later that night another bloke (engineer) was speaking to me but getting pretty drunk. He told me 10 times to tell my wife that he needed a big bonus this year and even got agressive against me, that drunk he was...(my wife was sleeping already). So when i came in the bedroom she woke up and i told her about that annoying boy who needed a big bonus from her this year....

Next morning at breakfast he sat at the big table, my wife immediatly told him loud that i had told her that he needed a big bonus this year...and that he repeated that 10 times to me....he replied he was so drunk that he couldn't remember anything...all his collegues were laughing loud so i told him he shouldn't drink so much if he can't stand it.

 

So you still think the Thai don't need to learn english? Well maybe for lower jobs like working at BurgerKing but not in the hitech world where they all have a high degree and very good salary.