UK Pensions (2018)

[billd766]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes my pension has failed to turn up at my Bangkok Bank today, checked my pulse, still didn't turn up.

Fortunately I have another 2 weeks to go.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

I will raise 2 points

Was the unfreezing of pensions in either of the coalition partners manifesto

Secondly as minister he would be bound by collective responsibility.

Whilst he may have personnaly disagreed with the coalition stance on this point ( i do not know if he did or not ). He is bound to accept the government position or resign if he felt it was of significant issue.

The legislation that dictates pension uprating is embedded in the Social Security Act. The Act comes before parliament every year but as the government controls business there is very little time for debate They only look at the changes the government have made before voting on the Act as a whole. No MP is ever going to vote against increases in social security benefits.

The only way this can be overcome is if the government had the will to separate the pension legislation from the Social Security Act and I think hell would freeze over before that happened.

The only glimmer of hope will be if the amendment to the Social Security Act regarding expats in the EU comes before parliament where that is the only change to be voted on, some could vote against it on the frozen pension aspect and some on the basis of saving money. If the vote were to fail, the media would be all over it like a rash.

If the government includes any other amendments in respect of benefit increases, then its lights out.

[cleopatra2]

25 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The legislation that dictates pension uprating is embedded in the Social Security Act. The Act comes before parliament every year but as the government controls business there is very little time for debate They only look at the changes the government have made before voting on the Act as a whole. No MP is ever going to vote against increases in social security benefits.

The only way this can be overcome is if the government had the will to separate the pension legislation from the Social Security Act and I think hell would freeze over before that happened.

The only glimmer of hope will be if the amendment to the Social Security Act regarding expats in the EU comes before parliament where that is the only change to be voted on, some could vote against it on the frozen pension aspect and some on the basis of saving money. If the vote were to fail, the media would be all over it like a rash.

If the government includes any other amendments in respect of benefit increases, then its lights out.

Labour have made it a manifesto pledge to unfreeze pensions.

Expats uprating in the EU will not come to Parliament as a seperate issue but with the Withdrawal agreement package as an whole.

The UK government will then enter into a billateral agreement with the EU to uprate pensions .

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Labour have made it a manifesto pledge to unfreeze pensions.

Expats uprating in the EU will not come to Parliament as a seperate issue but with the Withdrawal agreement package as an whole.

The UK government will then enter into a billateral agreement with the EU to uprate pensions .

Manifestos mean very little, the only thing that has any meaning is what gets voted on in parliament.

You may well be right on the process of change, that would depend on the actual wording in the Social Security Act which is quite difficult to navigate.

The agreement covers a lot more than pensions and it is not about the WA, but post transition or "no deal" scenario. In the meantime the government has moved the goalposts on "entitlement" for a certain group of expats, by establishing entitlement whether there is an agreement in place, or not.

 

The rights of those moving between the UK and the EU after the end of the transition period will be the subject of future negotiations – the Political Declaration sets out the broad framework agreed by the UK and EU for future mobility arrangements.

 

The UK Government committed to uprating the UK State Pension “in April 2020, April 2021 and April 2022, if you live in an EEA State or Switzerland” (Guidance, updated 1 September 2019). This was “with a view to securing continued reciprocal social security arrangements in the future”

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7894

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Manifestos mean very little, the only thing that has any meaning is what gets voted on in parliament.

You may well be right on the process of change, that would depend on the actual wording in the Social Security Act which is quite difficult to navigate.

The agreement covers a lot more than pensions and it is not about the WA, but post transition or "no deal" scenario. In the meantime the government has moved the goalposts on "entitlement" for a certain group of expats, by establishing entitlement whether there is an agreement in place, or not.

 

The rights of those moving between the UK and the EU after the end of the transition period will be the subject of future negotiations – the Political Declaration sets out the broad framework agreed by the UK and EU for future mobility arrangements.

 

The UK Government committed to uprating the UK State Pension “in April 2020, April 2021 and April 2022, if you live in an EEA State or Switzerland” (Guidance, updated 1 September 2019). This was “with a view to securing continued reciprocal social security arrangements in the future”

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7894

I disagree that manifesto means nothing. To my knowledge it is the first time that unfreezing of pensions has been a major party policy.

With regard the no deal EU pension situation i agree with you and raised the point in this forum some time ago. However since no deal ia not an issue the point becomes rather moot

[billzant]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Manifestos mean very little, the only thing that has any meaning is what gets voted on in parliament.

 

Manifestos are an indicator of what might get raised in parliament.

How else do we judge? What politicians say? How we have always voted? How our parents voted? Viewpoints raised in the media owned by Murdoch, ...? Comments on facebook sponsored by Cambridge Analytica or the fabled Russians? 

In this confusing day and age, perhaps manifestos are now the best way of judging the direction a political party is going in. It suits those who try to keep us ignorant to listen to soundbites rather than reading what people have spent time considering. It also suits those who try to keep us ignorant to encourage sweeping dismissals such as politicians always lie and manifestos mean nothing (I note you said very little) because then we don't participate.

But there is big money invested in elections so it is clear that money wants something out of it, therefore for us to discern what is the truth or not matters to them. Discerning through manifestos as opposed to soundbites might have more truth.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

However since no deal ia not an issue the point becomes rather moot

What do you think is going to happen at the end of 2020 when there is no agreement with the EU.

Only options are extend the transition or no deal, moot point is still a long way off.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, billzant said:

Manifestos are an indicator of what might get raised in parliament.
 

Perfectly true, but how much of a manifesto actually gets to parliament.

Becoming very difficult these days with the government refusing to honour the result of a general election.

 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

What do you think is going to happen at the end of 2020 when there is no agreement with the EU.

Only options are extend the transition or no deal, moot point is still a long way off.

I understand what you are saying. However the government commitment to expat pensioners in the EU was concerning no agreement being reached for the withdrawal. 

It did not cover failing to reach a future trade agreement.

[billzant]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Perfectly true, but how much of a manifesto actually gets to parliament.

Becoming very difficult these days with the government refusing to honour the result of a general election.

 

I used indicator as you used very little. 

Unwritten rules are completely changing. What was accepted as unwritten norms of some shred of decency in public life have now gone, I am amazed that conservative/traditional morality can accept the US president and the current British PM. It is so hard to be discerning.

Whatever doubts there are about what politicians say or are reported to have said, there can be nothing clearer than

"We will ensure that the pensions of UK
citizens living overseas rise in line with
pensions in Britain.

p76 of 107 of the Labour manifesto"

Whether that will happen if they get in is a legit question, but at present it seems unlikely that the pledge will be tested.

But there s a clear voting choice here if this was the only issue that mattered to you - for frozen pensions it is the most lucrative issue, vote for the party that makes this pledge or not.

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

What do you think is going to happen at the end of 2020 when there is no agreement with the EU.

Only options are extend the transition or no deal, moot point is still a long way off.

I have done some further research on this issue

The WA contains provisions for anybody present in the EU before the end of the implementation period to receive pension uprating after the implementation period ceases.

The provisions of uprating for people moving after the end of the implementation  is subject to future negotations.

[sandyf]

On 11/30/2019 at 6:43 PM, cleopatra2 said:

However the government commitment to expat pensioners in the EU was concerning no agreement being reached for the withdrawal. 

 

That is not correct.

The government commitment was to cover the transition period between the existing reciprocal agreement coming to an end and a new reciprocal agreement coming into force, irrespective of a withdrawal agreement being in place.

It would appear at this point in time they anticipate the new reciprocal agreement to be in place within 4 years.

My point was that by continuing to pay increases beyond the existing reciprocal agreement it would be in breach of government policy as stated in the HoC briefing paper.

To pay increases without a reciprocal in place is nothing short of an insult to all expats whose pensions are frozen.

[sandyf]

On 11/30/2019 at 7:01 PM, billzant said:

But there s a clear voting choice here if this was the only issue that mattered to you - for frozen pensions it is the most lucrative issue, vote for the party that makes this pledge or not.

You couldn't be more wrong, I don't think there has ever been an election where voting choice has been more unclear. Bojo has created an electerendum putting the electorate in an almost impossible position.

I voted in the referendum but have made no attempt to vote in the GE. The 2017 GE was an insult to those that voted in 2015, if you don't like the result, hold another and this one is an even bigger travesty.

As far as I am concerned the frozen pension has been more of a moral issue than a financial one, my income has been damaged a great deal more by the effect of brexit and the strength of the baht than the frozen aspect. It is only about 50% of my state pension that is subject to the increase, the other 50% is permanently frozen. On saying that it is starting to become significant, following the increase in April, the difference will be touching £25/week.

The way Thailand is heading I could very well be on full pension before its lights out.

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is not correct.

The government commitment was to cover the transition period between the existing reciprocal agreement coming to an end and a new reciprocal agreement coming into force, irrespective of a withdrawal agreement being in place.

It would appear at this point in time they anticipate the new reciprocal agreement to be in place within 4 years.

My point was that by continuing to pay increases beyond the existing reciprocal agreement it would be in breach of government policy as stated in the HoC briefing paper.

To pay increases without a reciprocal in place is nothing short of an insult to all expats whose pensions are frozen.

You are wrong

The WA contains provisions to keep uprating for UK pensioners past the implemenration period.

See Art 30 to 36 on the Social security aspects of the WA .

 

By signing and passing the WA the government have made an agreement on pension uprating

 

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

You are wrong

The WA contains provisions to keep uprating for UK pensioners past the implemenration period.

See Art 30 to 36 on the Social security aspects of the WA .

 

By signing and passing the WA the government have made an agreement on pension uprating

 

It does not matter what is written in a WA that may or may not be ratified.

The commitment to pay the increases for the next 3 years is irrespective of any WA. 

 

"The UK State Pension has already been uprated in the EU for the year April 2019 to March 2020. The government has now committed to uprating the UK State Pension paid to those living in the EU each year until March 2023, in the event that the UK leaves the EU without a deal."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uprating-guarantee-for-uk-state-pension-recipients-living-in-the-eu-after-brexit

[OJAS]

On 11/30/2019 at 12:51 PM, cleopatra2 said:

I disagree that manifesto means nothing. To my knowledge it is the first time that unfreezing of pensions has been a major party policy.

Which policy would almost certainly be quickly reversed by a Labour government once whoever ol' Jezza had appointed as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions had had their first meeting with DWP's Sir Humphrey.

[nong38]

For those of you who have been regular visitors this forum you may well remember a poster called "Rajab Al Zarahini". I last met up with him on the 24th of May in Birmingham where we had Fish and Chips at Wetherspoons.

It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that he passed away on the December, I will miss our conversations and I am sure you will miss his good sound advice on this forum.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

For those of you who have been regular visitors this forum you may well remember a poster called "Rajab Al Zarahini". I last met up with him on the 24th of May in Birmingham where we had Fish and Chips at Wetherspoons.

It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that he passed away on the December, I will miss our conversations and I am sure you will miss his good sound advice on this forum.

Sad to hear about that. I always enjoyed his posts.

[transam]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

For those of you who have been regular visitors this forum you may well remember a poster called "Rajab Al Zarahini". I last met up with him on the 24th of May in Birmingham where we had Fish and Chips at Wetherspoons.

It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that he passed away on the December, I will miss our conversations and I am sure you will miss his good sound advice on this forum.

Sorry to hear that chum.....????

[nong38]

8 hours ago, nong38 said:

For those of you who have been regular visitors this forum you may well remember a poster called "Rajab Al Zarahini". I last met up with him on the 24th of May in Birmingham where we had Fish and Chips at Wetherspoons.

It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that he passed away on the December, I will miss our conversations and I am sure you will miss his good sound advice on this forum.

He is indeed a great loss to all of us, the sort of person you want living next door to you, it was the 10th December he passed away.

I am sure you are all wondering how he chose that monica as indeed I was, well the answer is that he was working in Saudi Arabia and the previous incumbent left his name and picture on the desk, so have a smile about that, raise a glass and be happy you passed by him  through life, he was a thoroughly decent chap, I for one will miss him, I last heard from him on the 15th of October and there was not even a hint, hospital tests but he was expecting to be over here in November, just goes to show that no one knows when their time is up...……………….live everyday as if it were your last because one day you are going to be right, until then enjoy life.

[evadgib]

On 12/14/2019 at 2:16 PM, nong38 said:

For those of you who have been regular visitors this forum you may well remember a poster called "Rajab Al Zarahini". I last met up with him on the 24th of May in Birmingham where we had Fish and Chips at Wetherspoons.

It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that he passed away on the December, I will miss our conversations and I am sure you will miss his good sound advice on this forum.

Gutted. He struck me as a thoroughly decent bloke.

[evadgib]

This post-election survey aimed at overseas Brit pensioners caught my eye this morning & only took a few mins to complete.

[evadgib]

HMRC is urging Self Assessment customers to complete their Self Assessment tax return before the 31 January 2020 deadline.

There are some links of interest contained within this link.

[evadgib]

Link of interest to veterans:

 

Armed Forces Covenant Report shows support for military community

 

I have asked the appropriate authorities many times to include the 'frozen' nonsense within the remit of DWP's alleged commitment to the above but have been persistently fobbed off....& why is it not possible to play UK/Euro lottery online via a UK account or UK Bank DD as a veteran/reservist on the MOD payroll as a service and/or war pension recipient and yet it's perfectly ok to do so from anywhere in the world throughout a (3 to 12, 22 or 38 year) career?

[evadgib]

Prince Harry might prove useful to the ICBP now that he's become surplus to requirements & looks to be heading to a Commonwealth Country.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Prince Harry might prove useful to the ICBP now that he's become surplus to requirements & looks to be heading to a Commonwealth Country.

I can just imagine him going to the ICBP committee and saying

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObZJN9zDtA

 

In truth that is a brilliant idea.

 

Especially if he lives in Canada where his state pension (if he gets one) will be frozen.

 

[evadgib]

New veterans ID cards rolled out to service leavers

Quote

The cards allow veterans to easily verify their service to the NHS, their local authority, and charities, helping them to access support and services where needed.

All other veterans will be able to apply for a new ID card by the end of this year, to mark their time in the armed forces.

 

[sandyf]

On 1/8/2020 at 9:44 AM, evadgib said:

Link of interest to veterans:

 

Armed Forces Covenant Report shows support for military community

 

I have asked the appropriate authorities many times to include the 'frozen' nonsense within the remit of DWP's alleged commitment to the above but have been persistently fobbed off....& why is it not possible to play UK/Euro lottery online via a UK account or UK Bank DD as a veteran/reservist on the MOD payroll as a service and/or war pension recipient and yet it's perfectly ok to do so from anywhere in the world throughout a (3 to 12, 22 or 38 year) career?

Sent an email to Johnny Mercer, wait and see if I get a reply.

[sandyf]

On 1/9/2020 at 12:26 PM, billd766 said:

Especially if he lives in Canada where his state pension (if he gets one) will be frozen.

 

Not going to see the answer to that one Bill.

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Sent an email to Johnny Mercer, wait and see if I get a reply.

I hope you have better luck than I did!

(One of his minions sent a 'you're not a constituent' reply, presumably by not fully understanding what his new job entailed. My inquiry later reached it's destination via my constituency MP and one other sitting MP).