British PM May survives party confidence vote but 117 dissent

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

That's possible. These people are so drawn to the power, quite like many successful and less successful CEO etc are, that they tend not to see the real world around them.

 

It's quite unfortunate for the common people, to let these type of people to gain power over their lives. 

 

But in this case, she has her game plan done a long time ago. I'm just not sure what it really is. Then again, if she is really the person you suggested and have no real future plan at all, well.. UK is pretty much doomed unless she is thrown out of power. 

 

'UK is pretty much doomed'

 

I doubt this very much.

[welovesundaysatspace]

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/

Quote

Brexit is the story of a proud former imperial power undergoing a mid-life crisis. The rest of the world is left listening to Britain’s therapy session as they drone on about their ex-spouse, the EU: When will they stop talking and just move on? (...) It is Britain’s unique ignorance that makes Britain so boring. Ignorant about its leverage and ignorant about the EU, the U.K. is coming across as clumsy and caddish. (...) Britain has a lesson to learn. What a global power can pass off as “exceptionalism,” for a medium-sized country simply comes across as ingratitude.

 

[Grouse]

Heseltine is always worth listening to.

[Guest]

I'm a very much outsider when it comes to British politics. I had no interest nor idea, what british politics was about.

 

A friend of mine, who used to run the stock exchange in Finland, a very articulate person, became British citizen few years before all this brexit hussle happened. My friends's views of the world had shifted quite a lot after he had lived in London for couple of years. I expect that it's rather normal for each of us to change our views after we adapt to new societies. 

 

  This change however was quite different. Coming from liberal point of view, like we all expats generally have, he became  conservative. I challenged him at the time and it did not go that well.

 

  What I can gather from all of this is that if living in Britain can turn a good an openminded person to a closed minded person, there is something within Britain, which is fundamentally wrong.

 

  I can't pinpoint what it is, as I don't really know your society. I can only say that based of my observations of others, you have something which needs to be fixed right now. Not tomorrow. Right now. 

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Yes you can always rely on the Australian News Network to deliver the goods on Brexit.  Amazing what you can find when you are desperate to defend your argument ????

It was nonetheless filmed in London last Sunday & deliberately ignored by UK media & therefore is fair game IMO.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/

 

Quote

Brexit is the story of a proud former imperial power undergoing a mid-life crisis. The rest of the world is left listening to Britain’s therapy session as they drone on about their ex-spouse, the EU: When will they stop talking and just move on? (...) It is Britain’s unique ignorance that makes Britain so boring. Ignorant about its leverage and ignorant about the EU, the U.K. is coming across as clumsy and caddish. (...) Britain has a lesson to learn. What a global power can pass off as “exceptionalism,” for a medium-sized country simply comes across as ingratitude.

Proud yes, former imperial power yes, mid-life crisis (I interpret it as mid-life crisis as a "power") ... no, the sun set on the Empire long ago....  more of a 2nd tier economic power (too far behind 1st tier China/US to be 1st tier) that is having a further identity crisis and further retreating from the world.  Yes, there is talk about this withdrawal from the EU is to allow the UK sovereignty to negotiate it's own trade agreements - but I take that more as a distraction from the real intent.  The world constantly changes, borders constantly change, the lesson of life is change... but many people fear change -- they don't like change... and to stop that they try to freeze things as they are -- or -- to turn back time.  Basically they look backwards rather than looking to the future and growing and adapting to change... and the end result is more often than not... they are left behind and become less relevant. 

[Guest]

I often find it rather funny, when British people talk about how proud they are.

 

What are the things, you have personally or your nation during your adult lifetime, done, that you can say to be proud about?

 

Once again, I don't really expect replies from chicken brexiteers. They would only form a line, if Stalin or Putin would say so. 

 

Da, da da!

[Guest]

So.

 

 Is there still enough time to let the 10% of loud brexiteers to make their own mistakes, running UK government?

 

Or should the people have their Educated vote?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Heseltine is always worth listening to.

This was good. Thank you. 

 

- How do you feel if Brexit goes through

- Sad for the younger generation as we failed to give them better future.

 

That's pretty much what brexit is all about. Old people who don't want their grandchildren to have more possibilities what they had. "I skied to my school, all around the year, both ways uphill. You must do the same to become a decent person like I am".

 

These old goofers are happy to forget that the kids of today have quite different uphills to overcome. Uphills the elderly can't even imagine as those did not even exists during their time. 

 

Nasty, evil people really.

 

 

[nontabury]

14 hours ago, oilinki said:

Like I said. 70% of the brexiteers simply wanted to give two fingers to the goverment. 

You’ve absolutely no idea why the British people voted for Brexit. Best to keep your comments, to events in your own country, Finland.

 

 

[nontabury]

14 hours ago, pedro01 said:

I find this amusing.

 

Brexiters - who won by a hair - now claim that May winning by more than a hair - is a loss to her.

 

I am a Brexiter myself - can't wait to get out. But <deleted> people - the rules were set, she won the vote according to those rules - so arguing it's a loss is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 What happens if May’s victory by 200 votes is challenged, on the grounds that those 200 Conservative M.P’s are uneducated,and did’t know what they were voting for.???????? ????

[tebee]

10 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 What happens if May’s victory by 200 votes is challenged, on the grounds that those 200 Conservative M.P’s are uneducated,and did’t know what they were voting for.????????????

Sadly, that's probably true !

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, oilinki said:

May is determined, that's for sure. What I'm not sure is what is her end game is on this brexit, which seems to be a mess. 

 

Is she willing to really push forward the deal, she and thousands of others, negotiated or is she waiting for the UK parliament to grow a pair and say "Enough is enough, we'll end this mess of brexit"? 

 

 

Brexit is a mess,no getting away from that. Caused by the Tory establishment installing a remainer in an attempt to  conn the people into thinking she would implement the result of the Democratic Referendum.

 It’s also quite obviouse that the majority of M.P are remainers,who would like to stop Brexit. But they have a problem, or should I say 17,400,000 problems. 

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

'UK is pretty much doomed'

 

I doubt this very much.

If the Democratic wish of the electorate is overturned, that will certainly lead to the end, of what we’ve been lead to beleive,is a Democratic U.K.

 So perhaps doomed is’t too strong a word.

[vogie]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

Heseltine is always worth listening to.

Heseltine is never worth listening to, he is self serving and nothing else, I file him under the same catagory as Alistair Campbell, Tony Blair and Anna Soubry.

[j8k]

Britain should come and join Australia, NZ and Canada. Maybe bring the Irish along or at least make Ireland part of the UK.

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

Not sure how yesterday dealings in Brussels were presented in UK media

but some MSMs I have read said roughly that

 

In her interventions yesterday TM conveyed that a significant number of UK MPs

are deeply worried that the backstop arrangements would work such that UK

will be trapped in a continued EU relation for the foreseeable future.

 

She further opined that in HoC there is a majority of MPs who would prefer to leave

EU with an agreed deal.

 

If insurances that would mitigate MPs fear of being trapped could be given

then this deal could pass in parliament.

 

 

-----

 

When it comes to beauty touches to deal or its political cover my guess would be that

UK would be on a much stronger platform with a new government not tarnished by the

work since a50 was triggered.

 

TM has one advantage though, she knows the strongmen in Brussels and they know her

and has established a MO.

 

[sandyf]

All going to plan I see.

 

Theresa May‘s Brexit plan was dealt another major blow at a meeting with EU leaders on Thursday night in a disastrous turn of events that resulted in them scrapping written commitments to help her pass her deal through parliament.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-angela-merkel-scraps-plan-meeting-juncker-european-council-summit-a8682786.html

[bkkcanuck8]

2 hours ago, j8k said:

Britain should come and join Australia, NZ and Canada. Maybe bring the Irish along or at least make Ireland part of the UK.

 

 

 

Lots of foreign born non-UK heritage foreigners in those countries which could migrate to the UK if that happens.  Last I checked over half the population of Toronto was foreign born...  that sounds like a dangerous alternative for many that were for brexit to isolate their culture from invaders ????

 

Not to mention my mother might be against this refugee flood from England once the UK exits brexit ????.  I remember my mother telling me not to get mixed up with locals when working there... we already had enough bad blood in our family (1/32 maybe).  I asked my mother so "no english girls"... Yes.  How about Scottish... that is ok, Irish, that is also fine (grandparents and grandmas were mostly Scottish / Irish)... Japanese, yes that is fine... Thai ... yes ... French... yes... dutch... yes... English ... no... (she still has nightmares of here English grannie I guess or GG)

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Lots of foreign born non-UK heritage foreigners in those countries which could migrate to the UK if that happens.  Last I checked over half the population of Toronto was foreign born...  that sounds like a dangerous alternative for many that were for brexit to isolate their culture from invaders ????

 

Not to mention my mother might be against this refugee flood from England once the UK exits brexit ????.  I remember my mother telling me not to get mixed up with locals when working there... we already had enough bad blood in our family (1/32 maybe).  I asked my mother so "no english girls"... Yes.  How about Scottish... that is ok, Irish, that is also fine (grandparents and grandmas were mostly Scottish / Irish)... Japanese, yes that is fine... Thai ... yes ... French... yes... dutch... yes... English ... no... (she still has nightmares of here English grannie I guess or GG)

Your anti English rhetoric is wearing a little thin & brings bugger all to the boards. Which was it BTW, Colluden or potatoes?

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Your anti English rhetoric is wearing a little thin & brings bugger all to the boards. Which was it BTW, Colluden or potatoes?

You cannot blame my mom for her feelings... she just is not use to change... and she obviously afraid of over representation of one foreign ethnic group immigrating into our family...  not any different than the fear of change that brought about brexit.

[j8k]

UK should simply invade Ireland and take back control. See how the EU likes that. The UK would crush any other European country in terms of military.

 

That would shut the feckers up!!

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, j8k said:

UK should simply invade Ireland and take back control. See how the EU likes that. The UK would crush any other European country in terms of military.

 

That would shut the feckers up!!

Given the nature of this post, it's clear it wouldn't shut all the feckers up.

[vogie]

[sandyf]

Sooner or later the reality will kick in.

 

Predictions British tourists would have to pay to visit the EU after Brexit were previously dismissed as scaremongering by Leave campaigners. Yet draft regulation for the new travel scheme makes clear the UK would be considered a “third country” and subject to the same rules as other countries.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/uk-europe-travel-post-brexit-fee-eu-etias-visa-waiver-a8682931.html

[malagateddy]

So what..just do the same to them..it's not rocket science

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[bkkcanuck8]

47 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Sooner or later the reality will kick in.

 

Predictions British tourists would have to pay to visit the EU after Brexit were previously dismissed as scaremongering by Leave campaigners. Yet draft regulation for the new travel scheme makes clear the UK would be considered a “third country” and subject to the same rules as other countries.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/uk-europe-travel-post-brexit-fee-eu-etias-visa-waiver-a8682931.html

If that was scaremongering that UK citizens would have to pay 7 Euros to travel to the EU (visa-waiver) ... that was a rather pityful scare...  If you don't have the equivalent to a couple coffees -- to get it, you probably should not even think of travelling anyway.  I think the 'scaremongering' had more to do with changing to visa oriented travel -- which could still be possible (though not likely) -- temporarily -- on a no deal brexit while formal relations are in transition.  Most countries have now moved to such a system where you have to pre-register -- which gives required information to the country you plan to visit -- in advance of your arrival.  It typically takes a credit card and a few minutes to get it and you are often set for a reasonable amount of time.  Canada and US also have the same system now (though I think Canada and the US exclude each other since we have access to each others criminal / wants & warrants and fingerprint databases). 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

If that was scaremongering that UK citizens would have to pay 7 Euros to travel to the EU (visa-waiver) ... that was a rather pityful scare...  If you don't have the equivalent to a couple coffees -- to get it, you probably should not even think of travelling anyway.  I think the 'scaremongering' had more to do with changing to visa oriented travel -- which could still be possible (though not likely) -- temporarily -- on a no deal brexit while formal relations are in transition.  Most countries have now moved to such a system where you have to pre-register -- which gives required information to the country you plan to visit -- in advance of your arrival.  It typically takes a credit card and a few minutes to get it and you are often set for a reasonable amount of time.  Canada and US also have the same system now (though I think Canada and the US exclude each other since we have access to each others criminal / wants & warrants and fingerprint databases). 

The leavers shrugged everything off as scaremongering, believed everything that suited them, but now it is time for the reality.

This is what should be thought about, "UK would be considered a “third country”",  never mind the 7 Euros.

With the recent UN report and TM's global aspiration, the UK could soon be seen as an 'impoverished third world country'.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The leavers shrugged everything off as scaremongering, believed everything that suited them, but now it is time for the reality.

This is what should be thought about, "UK would be considered a “third country”",  never mind the 7 Euros.

With the recent UN report and TM's global aspiration, the UK could soon be seen as an 'impoverished third world country'.

 

Not impoverished - not unless you massively mismanage government budgets for a while.  A non-domestic (i.e. EU domestic) country on the outskirts of the EU who will not have the clout that they remember having in the past.  The economy will adjust.  The mistake that is made is there will be a study that indicates the impact to be 8%... both sides misrepresent that to be 8% sudden impact with one side saying the sky will fall in, and the other side will use it as scare mongering... while the 8% estimate made was actually an expected drop over a period of time... i.e. lower growth or deeper recessions that would be had if you were part of a larger market (larger domestic market) which often leads to a higher structural unemployment rate and things like that.  It does not mean you will suddenly be impoverished.  It is like boiling a frog by raising the temperature over time... except the temperature never reaches the danger level... so to speak.  It just returns the economy to where it would have been had it never entered the EU... often without a necessarily historical cataclysm.

[malagateddy]

The leavers shrugged everything off as scaremongering, believed everything that suited them, but now it is time for the reality.
This is what should be thought about, "UK would be considered a “third country”",  never mind the 7 Euros.
With the recent UN report and TM's global aspiration, the UK could soon be seen as an 'impoverished third world country'.
 

Does that mean that the UK will get plenty handouts??[emoji6][emoji23][emoji6]

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