Why is the MAGA movement so susceptible to crazy conspiracy theories?

[rooster59]

Australia recognises West Jerusalem as Israel's capital - PM Morrison

 

FILE PHOTO: The new Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison attends a news conference in Canberra, Australia August 24, 2018. REUTERS/David Gray/File Photo

 

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australia formally recognises West Jerusalem as Israel's capital, reversing decades of Middle East policy, but will not move its embassy there immediately, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Saturday.

 

"Australia now recognises West Jerusalem, being the seat of the Knesset and many of the institutions of government, is the capital of Israel," Morrison said.

 

"We look forward to moving our embassy to West Jerusalem when practical," he told reporters in Sydney.

 

Morrison said in October he was open to shifting Australia's embassy from Tel Aviv. President Donald Trump's decision to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv in May delighted Israel, infuriated Palestinians and upset the wider Arab world and Western allies.

 

Morrison's unexpected announcement in October was viewed cynically because it came days before a crucial by-election in an electorate with a strong Jewish representation, a poll his party subsequently lost.

 

It also drew criticism from Muslim-majority neighbours such as Indonesia and Malaysia, neither of whom formally recognise Israel's right to exist. Arab countries worried that the move would unnecessarily inflame tensions in the Middle East.

 

Israel regards all of Jerusalem as its capital, including the eastern sector that it annexed after the 1967 Middle East war, and wants all embassies based there. The international community believes Jerusalem's status should be resolved through negotiation.

 

The status of Jerusalem, home to sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian faiths, is one of the biggest obstacles to a peace agreement between Israel and Palestinians who want East Jerusalem recognised as the capital of a Palestinian state.

 

Morrison said Australia would not move its embassy to West Jerusalem until the city's final status was determined, but said trade and defence offices would be opened there.

 

He confirmed Australia's support for a two-state solution with a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem.

 

"What we are saying is we've got to move this forward. The rancid stalemate has to be broken," he said.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-15

[Boon Mee]

 Good move, OZ! ???? 

[dexterm]

Technically, his announcement is meaningless, since 
"Morrison said Australia would not move its embassy to West Jerusalem until the city's final status was determined"

 

He said Australia would also recognize East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital.
"The prime minister, Scott Morrison, said the government will also recognise a future state of Palestine with its capital in East Jerusalem after a settlement has been reached on a two-state solution.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/14/australian-government-to-recognise-jerusalem-as-israels-capital

 

This is just a face saving move to cover up his earlier unilateral gaffe in trying to win a local by election, treating the sizable Jewish vote there as gullible idiots and stereotyping them all as Zionists.

 

If the lame duck PM Morrison genuinely wanted to move the peace process forward he would have also recognized the state of Palestine now along with its capital in East Jerusalem, something which the next Australian PM may do next year.

 

Morrison may have already damaged Australian trade interests by moving trade and defense offices to West Jerusalem, something that may upset some of major Australia's trading partners, putting his own power interests ahead of the Australian people's.

Edited December 15, 2018 by dexterm

[flynn]

The new ambassador is on his way

[Thai Chi]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Morrison's unexpected announcement in October was viewed cynically because it came days before a crucial by-election in an electorate with a strong Jewish representation

No surprises there ....

 

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

a poll his party subsequently lost

No surprises there .....

[farcanell]

So it’s official... trump owns the toady liberal party in Oz... so disappointing... now to find a straight razor ????

[Jack100]

I dont really follow Aussie politics too much but is it just my imagination that your PM looks slightly unhinged ?

[ThaiFelix]

When they took our pensions I was disappointed, now I am ashamed.

[Old Croc]

3 hours ago, Jack100 said:

I dont really follow Aussie politics too much but is it just my imagination that your PM looks slightly unhinged ?

You tell me, this is his religion:

 

"Pentecostalism adheres to the inerrancy of the Bible and the necessity of accepting Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior. It is distinguished by belief in the baptism in the Holy Spirit that enables a Christian to live a Spirit-filled and empowered life. This empowerment includes the use of spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues and divine healing—two other defining characteristics of Pentecostalism. Because of their commitment to biblical authority, spiritual gifts, and the miraculous, Pentecostals tend to see their movement as reflecting the same kind of spiritual power and teachings that were found in the Apostolic Age of the early church. For this reason, some Pentecostals also use the term Apostolic or Full Gospel to describe their movement" - Wikipedia.

[marqus12]

“In 10 years, there will be no more Israel.”

 

is it worth moving the capital for 4 years ? ????

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

“In 10 years, there will be no more Israel.”

 

 

Says Iraq , Syria, Egypt and Lebanon 

[marqus12]

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Says Iraq , Syria, Egypt and Lebanon 

They want ... but Kissinger said

[harada]

14 hours ago, flynn said:

The new ambassador is on his way

No worries.

[Prissana Pescud]

9 hours ago, Jack100 said:

I dont really follow Aussie politics too much but is it just my imagination that your PM looks slightly unhinged ?

Aus has gone through a decade of political instability. Both major parties and a truly loony green party.

 Morrison is about the 7th? prime minister in 10 years.

All the members of their own parties stab their leaders in disgraceful coups.

Morrison is an unelected prime minister. National elections are due in May and he is teetering in popularity.

This move is designed to appease the jewish vote and the hard right red neck liberals.

As a person, Morrison is a religious nutcase. He acts and talks like a man of the middle, but that is as phoney as his religion.

Besides this lunacy of recognising West Jerusalem as the jews capital, he is trying to introduce laws to penalise gays in religious schools.

So yes, he does look unhinged.

[dundas]

Morrison sits far out on the right wing, right out near the wing tip in fact. He's recently been displaying a fondness for wearing MAGA-style caps, so it's no surprise that he wants to follow Trump as only the second leader in the world to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Never mind that Australians are now being urged to take extra care in Bali, because doing so has offended the world's most populous Muslim country, and given jihadists throughout Asia something to rail against. He presents himself to the electorate as a knock-about-bloke, so he likes being filmed drinking beer and eating meat pies, even though his values are 100% Pentecostal.  He wants to subsidise coal power stations, is on about 'protecting' minority groups (but only if they're churches) and has announced a so-called anti-corruption commission designed to leave politicians well alone. Cannot wait to see the last of him. 

[Kiwiken]

Used to be called the lucky Country pretty sad when Aussies ask me to find them jobs in NZ.

Not a suprising move by Morrison. Aussie is the Number 1 US Lapdog these days.

[Mad mick]

10 hours ago, Jack100 said:

I dont really follow Aussie politics too much but is it just my imagination that your PM looks slightly unhinged ?

yeah hes a  t--sa

[Cats4ever]

2 emails to the PM's office asking if he  or his church believe in the Rapture, have gone unanswered. 1 email to the Horizon church, ditto.

These off broadway churches should not influence good policy making.

[thaibeachlovers]

Oz ( or at least the PM ) has lost the plot and gone full on into looney land, given the large numbers of Islamic immigrants it's been busily importing. Does the PM think they are just going to say "that's OK, let's go and have a cup of tea"?

There is no legal justification for making Jerusalem the capital of Israel any way. The UN charter that created Israel from Arab land specifically excluded Jerusalem.

I know that might is right when it comes to Israel, and they get away with a lot because of the US veto in the UN, but this is just wrong, morally, and IMO legally.

[simple1]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oz ( or at least the PM ) has lost the plot and gone full on into looney land, given the large numbers of Islamic immigrants it's been busily importing. Does the PM think they are just going to say "that's OK, let's go and have a cup of tea"?

There is no legal justification for making Jerusalem the capital of Israel any way. The UN charter that created Israel from Arab land specifically excluded Jerusalem.

I know that might is right when it comes to Israel, and they get away with a lot because of the US veto in the UN, but this is just wrong, morally, and IMO legally.

Personally don't understand why the Morrison government have made the OP decisions. IMO best left alone until a Two State Solution is implemented.

 

Fastest growing number of migrants by religion is Hindus, by the next census likely to exceed / equal the number of Muslims in Australia. I do admire Hindu philosophy; Vedanta. Thankfully Hindu extremist terrorism is rarely exported overseas. Unfortunately there have been some serious crimes committed upon fellow Hindus, due to some cultural issues 

 

Interesting to note more than 25% of Australians do not follow any religion.

Edited December 16, 2018 by simple1

[MalandLee]

This history of Jerusalem is (IMO) well summarised here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jerusalem  Thousands of years before Islam even existed, Jerusalem had Jewish roots. To suggest that Islamic Palestinians are the only rightful owners, goes in the face of history.

 

Setting aside all the hatred and religious fundamentalism (If that were ever possible) - on ALL sides - Jewish people have a legitimate, historical reason to call Jerusalem theirs.

 

I do not trust any individual with a "religious" reason for a political decision Scott Morrison is drawing Australia into a potential minefield and possibly (maybe even probably) causing the loss of Australian lives.

 

One day - I hope - Israelis and Palestinians, together, will find a solution to their issues. I suspect they will find this, without interference, at least "one hopes".

 

I have met Israelis, that hold sympathy for their neighbours, respect and genuinely care. Many despise their war warmongering leaders.  until moderates rule - on all sides. The prospect for a harmonious, peaceful solution, seems a long way off.  

 

Morrison should butt out....

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

To suggest that Islamic Palestinians are the only rightful owners, goes in the face of history.

Which is why the UN decision to not include Jerusalem in the modern state of Israel was the correct one. it should be an international city, as was intended.

 

It's significance to Jews, Christians and Muslims mean it doesn't "belong" to any of them.

[Cryingdick]

If Israel is a country they can say where their capitol is. I am not sure what law there is against it. You can argue about how it got to this point but if Israel is allowed to exist they have the right to choose the capitol of what is a sovereign state and set up their financial markets.

 

I couldn't imagine the USA being dictated to about where it's capitol is because of the tribes we displaced. I really don't see how it is any simpler than that.

 

 

[bristolboy]

Just now, Cryingdick said:

If Israel is a country they can say where their capitol is. I am not sure what law there is against it. You can argue about how it got to this point but if Israel is allowed to exist they have the right to choose the capitol of what is a sovereign state and set up their financial markets.

 

I couldn't imagine the USA being dictated to about where it's capitol is because of the tribes we displaced. I really don't see how it is any simpler than that.

 

 

If the US chose to set up its capital in Toronto, there might be some objections raised. Israel may have de facto control of West Jerusalem, but most of the world doesn't recognize it as being legally part of Israel.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

I wouldn't know that Australia recognizing "the state of Palestine along with its capital in East Jerusalem" would "move the peace process forward". Notably, no rationale or support for this bit are provided - just another slogan. At the risk of inviting more of the usual soap box commentary - did such various recognition moves actually contribute much to achieving or promoting peace between the sides?

 

So far, and despite your warnings of dire outcomes, nothing much beyond words. Trade is a two-way street, and Arab/Muslim countries supposed solidarity with the Palestinian cause doesn't always translate into actual deeds. Nowadays, seems like there's even more room for outright contradicting stock responses:

 

Bahrain FM defends Australia's decision on Jerusalem

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/12/bahrain-fm-defends-australia-decision-jerusalem-181216085427990.html

 

Contradicting Arab League, Bahrain Defends Australia's Recognition of West Jerusalem as Israeli Capital

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/bahraini-fm-defends-australia-s-recognition-of-west-jerusalem-as-israeli-capital-1.6747113

 

And, routinely, the same double standards on display. Threats (and application) of economic pressure or advocating caving in to such, are quite alright on some situations, it would seem. Not so when directed at the side you claim to support. 

[Morch]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

If the US chose to set up its capital in Toronto, there might be some objections raised. Israel may have de facto control of West Jerusalem, but most of the world doesn't recognize it as being legally part of Israel.

 

If you were indeed referring to West Jerusalem, then de facto, most of the world actually accepts the premise. Not formally, of course, but almost all the discussed two-state formulations rely on this acceptance.

 

Going by legalities here is somewhat tangled, as the original partition plan did not grant overall sovereignty of the city to either side. The East-West division is itself a de facto product of historical events. Nowadays, it is, at most, relevant only as far as ideas governing the holy sites under a future peace agreements. I don't think that there were much serious attempts at applying it to the city as a whole.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:50 PM, Cryingdick said:

If Israel is a country they can say where their capitol is. I am not sure what law there is against it. You can argue about how it got to this point but if Israel is allowed to exist they have the right to choose the capitol of what is a sovereign state and set up their financial markets.

 

I couldn't imagine the USA being dictated to about where it's capitol is because of the tribes we displaced. I really don't see how it is any simpler than that.

 

 

True, but in Israel's case Jerusalem isn't part of their country. They only have it because they confiscated it in their wars against the rightful owners of the land. I don't think the UN has ever agreed that Jerusalem is part of Israel, but tell me if I'm wrong.

The only reason they even have a country is because the UN said they did. The actual occupants of the land did not agree, but like the Native American tribes, they lost the wars against the invaders.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

True, but in Israel's case Jerusalem isn't part of their country. They only have it because they confiscated it in their wars against the rightful owners of the land. I don't think the UN has ever agreed that Jerusalem is part of Israel, but tell me if I'm wrong.

The only reason they even have a country is because the UN said they did. The actual occupants of the land did not agree, but like the Native American tribes, they lost the wars against the invaders.

 

What your posts come down to is that you reject the fact of Israel's existence. Sort of makes all of your supposed rational "arguments" pointless as far as discussion goes. What you're on about isn't the status  of Jerusalem, or Australia's position regarding it, but plain and simple blind hatred.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

What your posts come down to is that you reject the fact of Israel's existence. Sort of makes all of your supposed rational "arguments" pointless as far as discussion goes. What you're on about isn't the status  of Jerusalem, or Australia's position regarding it, but plain and simple blind hatred.

I put myself in the position of the Palestinians that owned the land that the UN arbitrarily confiscated for the Zionists, and if I were one of them I'd have certainly not agreed with the existence of Israel. However, the thread is about Jerusalem, not the existence of Israel per se. I doubt that anyone can say that Israel legally "owns" Jerusalem, except through conquest.

Deflect away though. 

BTW, how can you claim that I have "hatred" in my heart. The only time I even give Israel a thought is when I see threads about it on TVF.