Latest from USA Embassy as of 14 December

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That indicates that one will likely not be eligible for grandfathering should such occur in the near term if they have only been on retirement extension for 2 or 3 years.

I see no reason it would be that way. This how it is written in the police order.

"(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:"

That indicates if a person went to immigration on October 22, 1998 they would of been grandfathered if they were renewing an existing extension.

 

[JLCrab]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I see no reason it would be that way. This how it is written in the police order.

How can someone be been "consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement" if they have only been on retirement for one year?

 

So I guess this all depends when they actually changed the rules to be different than in 1998 but I don't think it was 1999 or they might have chosen a different word than 'consecutively'.

Edited December 20, 2018 by JLCrab

[Rama]

I'm wondering. If I print out my SS verification letter (which you can do from My SS on the SS website, my SS is well above the 65k requirement) and took it to the embassy and had it notarized by the embassy...I wonder if that would pass immigration...

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, Rama said:

and had it notarized by the embassy.

You are assuming that they would in fact notarize it?

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Rama said:

I'm wondering. If I print out my SS verification letter (which you can do from My SS on the SS website, my SS is well above the 65k requirement) and took it to the embassy and had it notarized by the embassy...I wonder if that would pass immigration...

They will not notarize it . However, you can make a General Affidavit where you write in you are making xxx amount  and the source- swear an oath it is true- and the  Embassy will sign it but they are only attesting to your identity.  Whether Thai imm would accept this in the future is unknown.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

That's kind of grandfatherly.  Don't they email you?  They let me know of any changes within seconds of the decision.  

 

Well, there you go everyone should set that up. ????

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, mikebike said:

Ignorance of the law(s) is no excuse... better be on top of it or move.

What the Embassies choose to do is not 'The Law'....

[5633572526]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:51 PM, dddave said:

I'm a US citizen.  In the ten years I've lived here on a retirement extension, the US Embassy has never been in the business of "verifying" the income of US citizens.  What is has done is to apply a notarial stamp to "affidavits of stated income", thus certifying that the individual submitting the affidavit has sworn before a designated witness that the statements of income within the affidavit are true.  There is no process now nor has there ever been a process that verified those statements.

It is, I think, safe to assume that the Thai Immigration Bureau was well aware that this system was abused by a substantial number of US citizens and that for many years, they looked the other way.  

That there is now a very broad crackdown on Immigration and visa abuses by the Thai Government is pretty obvious.  It would not surprise me at all if Thai Immigration and Interior ministry officials let various nations ambassadors know that they were unhappy with the situation and some accomodation was reached.

The letter has a disclaimer on it that says it is not an actual verification of income and this letter has been accepted by Thai immigration even with the disclaimer. So why stop providing the letter and pocketing the $50.00 now?? The first couple of times I got the letter I brought proof of my income with me however they have never been interested in it. It seems unbelievable to me that a person at my embassy can’t look at a total at the bottom of a pension statement and compare it to the amount I put in the letter and verify it.

[sungod]

On 12/19/2018 at 7:00 PM, davhend25 said:

Yes..yes..yes... and I am one of them....I have almost double the 65,000 baht monthly income requirement, but not 800,000 I can park in a Thai bank account earning very little interest. Jeffrey346 makes a very valid point here!!

 

Can you tell me any bank accounts that pay a reasonable rate of interest?

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, sungod said:

Can you tell me any bank accounts that pay a reasonable rate of interest?

Depends on what you mean by reasonable.  If you have pounds at home then the increase in value of the baht should be taken into consideration.  Interest rates are dependent on many things including the value of the home currency.  What do you think is reasonable for USD or Australian dollar or British pound?  Argentina and Uzbekistan are paying 20%.

[sungod]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Depends on what you mean by reasonable.  If you have pounds at home then the increase in value of the baht should be taken into consideration.  Interest rates are dependent on many things including the value of the home currency.  What do you think is reasonable for USD or Australian dollar or British pound?  Argentina and Uzbekistan are paying 20%.

 

Not sure you should be asking me that, rather the guy(s) who wont put the equivalent of $25,000 USD into a Thai bank account? What sort of return do these people expect on top of meeting the visa requirements?

Edited December 23, 2018 by sungod

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

It seems unbelievable to me that a person at my embassy can’t look at a total at the bottom of a pension statement and compare it to the amount I put in the letter and verify it.

It's against the law for US Embassy personnel to do this.  They are forbidden to make any "validation" of documents - can only attest that you are who you say you are, and you swore X was true. 

[Tony125]

Below video interview with US Embassy director states Thai Immigration  will accept monthly bank statements after  Jan 2019

 

[garyk]

5 hours ago, sungod said:

 

Not sure you should be asking me that, rather the guy(s) who wont put the equivalent of $25,000 USD into a Thai bank account? What sort of return do these people expect on top of meeting the visa requirements?

I just picked up the letter from the U.S. embassy. So I will be here, if I want for another year. But, I doubt if I will put 25K in a Thai bank. Right now I am drawing around 1300 U.S. dollars / year from the 25K I would have to put in a Thai bank.

IMO if you are going to put 25K in a Thai bank you might as well leave it there and forget about it. It disrupts the whole investment process when you pull money out of the market, and then put it back in the market. Not worth it! Basically you will be donating 800K / yr. to the Thai banking system from the day you put it in. 

 

Only thing is, is it worth it to you. No one can answer that but you. 

 

I did a few calculations early on to try and determine what was going on with this new 800K ruling. With just the 800K seasoned for 3 months it means millions of dollars to the Thai banks in interest. 

People here try to put different spins on the reasoning, but it is always about money. 

 

Regards

Edited December 23, 2018 by garyk

[Pattaya46]

20 minutes ago, garyk said:

IMO if you are going to put 25K in a Thai bank you might as well leave it there and forget about it.

It disrupts the whole investment process when you pull money out of the market, and then put it back in the market.

Not worth it! 

I disagree. It will be an inconvenience, yes, but a small one and still worth it IMHO.

If ever I can't use Income Letter anymore it's probably what I will do: Taking 800k out of my Thai Stock Exchange account during 3 months for the Extension, and then put it in immediately again. Not a big impact on "the whole investment process".

[garyk]

17 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I disagree. It will be an inconvenience, yes, but a small one and still worth it IMHO.

If ever I can't use Income Letter anymore it's probably what I will do: Taking 800k out of my Thai Stock Exchange account during 3 months for the Extension, and then put it in immediately again. Not a big impact on "the whole investment process".

I am going to tone it down a bit, good luck to you. 

You are definitely doing it differently that I am, to achieve a steady 5-6% income stream.

 

Regards

Edited December 23, 2018 by garyk

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, sungod said:

 

Not sure you should be asking me that, rather the guy(s) who wont put the equivalent of $25,000 USD into a Thai bank account? What sort of return do these people expect on top of meeting the visa requirements?

You asked what bank accounts that pay a reasonable amount of interest.  I asked you because I would have to know what you consider reasonable to answer your question.  That's why I'm asking you. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

I just picked up the letter from the U.S. embassy. So I will be here, if I want for another year. But, I doubt if I will put 25K in a Thai bank. Right now I am drawing around 1300 U.S. dollars / year from the 25K I would have to put in a Thai bank.

IMO if you are going to put 25K in a Thai bank you might as well leave it there and forget about it. It disrupts the whole investment process when you pull money out of the market, and then put it back in the market. Not worth it! Basically you will be donating 800K / yr. to the Thai banking system from the day you put it in. 

 

Only thing is, is it worth it to you. No one can answer that but you. 

 

I did a few calculations early on to try and determine what was going on with this new 800K ruling. With just the 800K seasoned for 3 months it means millions of dollars to the Thai banks in interest. 

People here try to put different spins on the reasoning, but it is always about money. 

 

Regards

I figured it out.  You are making about $2 a day more than I am with your 25 grand not in a Thai bank.  Is it worth it to you? 

 

As far as Thai banks making interest money?  If they can influence American and British embassies that easy I've got some better ideas for them to really clean up.  Or, if they can influence Immigration gee the gravy train is about to leave the station. 

 

I first deposited my money in a Thai bank 20 years ago and have done quite well.  They are far less intrusive than the American banks I was forced to work with in the States. 

[garyk]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I figured it out.  You are making about $2 a day more than I am with your 25 grand not in a Thai bank.  Is it worth it to you? 

 

As far as Thai banks making interest money?  If they can influence American and British embassies that easy I've got some better ideas for them to really clean up.  Or, if they can influence Immigration gee the gravy train is about to leave the station. 

 

I first deposited my money in a Thai bank 20 years ago and have done quite well.  They are far less intrusive than the American banks I was forced to work with in the States. 

I would say well worth it!  2 bucks a day is 730 dollars a year. That is a huge hit. On 25K you are loosing over 50% investing here!

I am not forced to work with anyone in particular. It is quite easy actually?

What percentage rate are you getting? And how are you investing? I am curious.

Edited December 23, 2018 by garyk

[KhunFred]

One of the ironies of this situation is that lack of ability to stay here might force me to live in an actual

COMMUNIST country....Laos. I would at least be within a long train trip to see my fiancee  in Thailand and I would be living in a lower cost country. It is between Laos and the Philippines, at present. I'm not yet sure which I would choose if I can't get an extension of stay next October. Good job, America...force expats to spend their money in a commie country, just freakin' BRILLIANT. 

[garyk]

3 hours ago, garyk said:

I would say well worth it!  2 bucks a day is 730 dollars a year. That is a huge hit. On 25K you are loosing over 50% investing here!

I am not forced to work with anyone in particular. It is quite easy actually?

What percentage rate are you getting? And how are you investing? I am curious.

I can figure out most of it knowing I make 2 bucks a day more.

2 x 365 = 730 dollars more a year.

1300 - 730 = 570 / year you make.

25000 dollars x X = 1300 dollars, X = 5.2% I make / year on 25000 dollars.

25000 dollars x X = 570 dollars, X = 2.28% you make / year on 25000 dollars.

The difference is 2.92%.

 

I am not sure what the Thai banks offer in the way of investment accounts? 

 

Since I poor boy it, ( I don't have millions to invest at a time ) I have to pay a front end fee to invest in a good mutual fund. So if I take it out, then reinvest I loose big time. A total wast for me. 

I dabble a little in securities on my own, and taking money in and out of that would be nothing short of a disaster in the worst way.

 

I am guessing that you can put the money in a Thai bank at 2.28% / yr. interest and it pays monthly with no minimum time on the investment? If you are doing that then you are good to go and I see what you are talking about. 

Actually if you can put it in a Thai bank that lets you do that. That is a good deal IMO.

I will look into that for sure. So thanks!

Edited December 23, 2018 by garyk

[JackThompson]

59 minutes ago, garyk said:

I am guessing that you can put the money in a Thai bank at 2.28% / yr. interest and it pays monthly with no minimum time on the investment?

The key with the account being acceptable to immigration, is you can take out the 800K at any time without losing any of the principle.  Some accounts pay a higher-rate based on a longer-term commitment, but will penalize only your interest for early-withdrawal - those are still OK.

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The key with the account being acceptable to immigration, is you can take out the 800K at any time without losing any of the principle.  Some accounts pay a higher-rate based on a longer-term commitment, but will penalize only your interest for early-withdrawal - those are still OK.

Ok, thanks Jack. I will look into it.

[LosLobo]

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:15 AM, JackThompson said:

The key with the account being acceptable to immigration, is you can take out the 800K at any time without losing any of the principle.  Some accounts pay a higher-rate based on a longer-term commitment, but will penalize only your interest for early-withdrawal - those are still OK.

I found that by formulating a maturement plan with BangkokBank Term Deposits I was able to have 4 sub deposits each of 200k maturing at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months. 

This maximized my interest return and drip fed my living expenses.

[fusion58]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:05 AM, LawrenceN said:

I use the monthly income method, and will extend my retirement visa next month. In the past, I took the pointless notarized letter from the consulate. This time, I plan to take the documents outlined here:

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

Note that the two methods of showing funds are given equal weight, ฿800K on deposit, or ฿65K per month. I plan to take bank statements showing regular deposits, and statements from the sources of my funds. Those satisfy the official requirements as listed by Thai Immigration. As far as I am concerned, this is the definitive statement.

 

I attended the US Consulate's town hall meeting last month in Chiang Mai. The Deputy Chief of Mission summarized the consulate's meetings with Immigration. At long last Immigration figured out that the Consulate never verified income, just the citizen's statement and identity. We were paying for notarial services. Both sides finally got on the same page, recognizing the system was prone to abuse and proved nothing. Good riddance and $50 more in my pocket.

 

Change is hard, people. Read the info in the link above carefully. The sky is not falling. Do yourselves a favor and stop listening to all the Chicken Littles here in TVland. Collect your documents and forget about the way it WAS done.

Can the 65K THB/month be held in a U.S. bank?

 

Will TI accept bank statements from a U.S. bank?

 

 

[Olmate]

46 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

Can the 65K THB/month be held in a U.S. bank?

 

Will TI accept bank statements from a U.S. bank?

 

 

That would be a no no.

[fusion58]

I’m just now learning about the U.S. Embassy’s decision to stop providing income affidavits. I have relied on these affidavits for every retirement (or marriage) extension I have done hitherto. I have no Thai bank account - all my money is deposited in U.S. banks. My current retirement extension expires on 28 February 2019. What are my options?

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I’m just now learning about the U.S. Embassy’s decision to stop providing income affidavits. I have relied on these affidavits for every retirement (or marriage) extension I have done hitherto. I have no Thai bank account - all my money is deposited in U.S. banks. My current retirement extension expires on 28 February 2019. What are my options?

Per the embassy website, I do not see any more available appointments this year to get a letter (good for 6 months at most local offices).  You could watch that page, and see if this changes / someone cancels an appointment (longshot at best).

 

If you have 800K to put in a Thai bank account, you could do this - but need 3 months seasoning for retirement, so 2 days left on that.  Only 2 months seasoning is needed of 400K Baht in a Thai bank for marriage. 

 

We are waiting for a new Police Order stating what will be accepted in the future regarding income-based extensions.  We have a "preview" of the draft-document, relayed by our Embassy Consul, who says the 65K Baht (40K if married) would need to be shown xferred into a Thai bank account every month.  The interview did not reveal how many months of xfers would be required, nor if there were any other additional aspects to qualifying this way - but we can assume they may opt to ask for backing documents, as done in some offices now with Embassy letters.

 

Of course if using an agent, applicants don't need to meet the financials at all.  Agents "flash" the money in/out of an account, generating a bank-letter in the meantime, and their IO buddy acts as though the money is yours.  The head of immigration told the press the IOs were "tricked" - so, evidently, they somehow forget to look for the seasoning-proof whenever an agent submits an application; maybe advanced forms of hypnosis are used.  Cost varies by agent and area - 13K to 25K baht is reported.  The downside, of course, is that if one's agent is ever thrown to the wolves, visitors who used their service might go down with them.

[marcus111]

garyk...

Come on mate...You are thinking to much..!!!!

2 bucks a day in lost interest to live in Thailand is a very small price to pay.

800K only needs to be in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to your extension.....

So if you leave your 65K per month in your home country in an interest bearing deposit account during the 9 months prior, your 2 bucks per day would more than likely 1 buck per day.

Are you that stingy to not shell a buck or 2 to live here...????

Maybe it's time for you to go home...!!!!!

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, fusion58 said:

I’m just now learning about the U.S. Embassy’s decision to stop providing income affidavits. I have relied on these affidavits for every retirement (or marriage) extension I have done hitherto. I have no Thai bank account - all my money is deposited in U.S. banks. My current retirement extension expires on 28 February 2019. What are my options?

Your first step might be getting that Thai bank account. 

Then depositing the necessary funds for a retirement extension or one based on  marriage. Also investigate getting a non Imm O in an adjacent or nearby country.

 

In the meantime we may get to hear from Immigration what any requirements will be for income based extensions where again that Thai bank account could be key. 

Good luck!

(Where have you been for a few months that the news of income affidavits didn't reach you? ????)

Edited December 26, 2018 by jacko45k