Circuit breaker tripping a lot.

[Neeranam]

One of my churchy breakers has been tripping today, about 5 times today. I can't figure out which are of the house it is coming from. Most of the rooms lose power.

Is this dangerous?

Any advice as what to do?

 

I'll look for a quantified electrician tomorrow, but waiter said than done.

[Crossy]

OK, is it an MCB (no test button) or an RCD (has a test button) that's tripping?

 

MCB then you may have an overload situation, not good.

 

RCD then a ground fault of some kind.

 

In either case it could be a faulty unit.

 

Post a photo of the offending beast and the rest of your panel and we can come up with a diagnosis technique.

 

Have you added any new appliances recently? Lots of rain? Anything changed?

 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

OK, is it an MCB (no test button) or an RCD (has a test button) that's tripping?

 

MCB then you may have an overload situation, not good.

 

RCD then a ground fault of some kind.

 

In either case it could be a faulty unit.

 

Post a photo of the offending beast and the rest of your panel and we can come up with a diagnosis technique.

 

Have you added any new appliances recently? Lots of rain? Anything changed?

 

Thanks a lot Crossy.

 

I managed to find a sparky, who is surprisingly knowledgeable.

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker and is coming back tomorrow to add a breaker to one of the showers.

[bankruatsteve]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks a lot Crossy.

 

I managed to find a sparky, who is surprisingly knowledgeable.

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker and is coming back tomorrow to add a breaker to one of the showers.

Just so you know, a breaker must not be rated higher than the wire it is protecting.  IE:  if you have 2.5mm² wire, the breaker should not exceed 20amp.  So, if that is your case, and he jams in a 32amp MCB, that is not showing any knowledge.  Splitting off the shower to a different circuit is a good thing to do and may solve the issue.  

[Formaleins]

17 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Just so you know, a breaker must not be rated higher than the wire it is protecting.  IE:  if you have 2.5mm² wire, the breaker should not exceed 20amp.  So, if that is your case, and he jams in a 32amp MCB, that is not showing any knowledge.  Splitting off the shower to a different circuit is a good thing to do and may solve the issue.  

The poor electrician hasn't even done the work yet, and already we have the estimated cable size, the rated current, the maximum  current and the insinuation that the spark is getting ready to fit a 32 Amp breaker! Not content with that, it is even being suggested that the guy has no knowledge - Amazing Thailand, the hub of know it all's and electrical telepathy.

 

Jesus, give the poor spark a chance.

[rwill]

32 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

The poor electrician hasn't even done the work yet, and already we have the estimated cable size, the rated current, the maximum  current and the insinuation that the spark is getting ready to fit a 32 Amp breaker! Not content with that, it is even being suggested that the guy has no knowledge - Amazing Thailand, the hub of know it all's and electrical telepathy.

 

Jesus, give the poor spark a chance.

He is just trying to be helpful.  Putting in a higher amp breaker can cause the wires to overheat, melt, start a fire.  

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Formaleins said:

Not content with that, it is even being suggested that the guy has no knowledge

In Thailand I find it best to assume that no one knows what they are doing and that they may try to cut corners and bodge things up.

 

That way I only get nice surprises.

[xtrnuno41]

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks a lot Crossy.

 

I managed to find a sparky, who is surprisingly knowledgeable.

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker and is coming back tomorrow to add a breaker to one of the showers.

a sparky? Fix that one then, as it should not spark anywhere. i agree with with Steve, dont just upgrade your fuse, be aware of the cables. Otherwise you could have a fire .

[Phuketshrew]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:12 PM, Neeranam said:

One of my churchy breakers has been tripping today

Maybe it's the mushrooms?

[irishdave32]

2 hours ago, Formaleins said:

The poor electrician hasn't even done the work yet, and already we have the estimated cable size, the rated current, the maximum  current and the insinuation that the spark is getting ready to fit a 32 Amp breaker! Not content with that, it is even being suggested that the guy has no knowledge - Amazing Thailand, the hub of know it all's and electrical telepathy.

 

Jesus, give the poor spark a chance.

He is right. You can't just just put in a 32 amp mcb. It won't trip but will be drawing to much for and 2.5mm cables which is tripping a 20amp breaker already. Somehow I can't see the sparky pulling out all the 2.5 cable and pulling in 4mm cable. It's a big job. If he knew what he was doing he'd split the circuits back at the DB not just put in a 32amp. 

[The Theory]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:37 AM, Neeranam said:

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker

And it just started today !!!!! 

Your electrician needs to locate the problem. Adding separate breaker is not a right solution.

Look for a bad wire connection (sparky). 

Bad extentions could cause same problem as well, if there is any.

 

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, irishdave32 said:

He is right. You can't just just put in a 32 amp mcb. It won't trip but will be drawing to much for and 2.5mm cables which is tripping a 20amp breaker already. Somehow I can't see the sparky pulling out all the 2.5 cable and pulling in 4mm cable. It's a big job. If he knew what he was doing he'd split the circuits back at the DB not just put in a 32amp. 

The OP didn't provide any specifics nor did he answer any of Crossy's question.  I provided wire and amp size as a possible (typical) scenario which he criticized for some reason.  He also claimed the "sparky" was knowledgeable but if the OP has no clue, how would he determine that?  Anyway... it is NOT OK to resolve an overload issue by putting in a larger breaker.  It IS OK to separate high load devices (like a shower heater) to separate circuit.

[TGIR]

'll look for a quantified electrician tomorrow, but waiter said than done.

 

Trying to read some of the threads today has been a real adventure..........This is just the most obvious.

[superal]

To you electrical knowledgeable guys , what is your gut feeling about electrical installations in Thailand , especially domestics as they may well be installed by a " master of all trades " and probably not independently inspected .

Secondly are you aware of any national standard qualification on a parity with the UK 17th edition ?

Finding any qualified tradesman in Thailand is a difficult task compared with the UK etc .

[TGIR]

6 minutes ago, TGIR said:

'll look for a quantified electrician tomorrow, but waiter said than done.

 

Trying to read some of the threads today has been a real adventure..........This is just the most obvious.

and less than a minute later I read:

 

  On 12/20/2018 at 11:37 AM, Neeranam said:

Thanks a lot Crossy.

 

I managed to find a sparky, who is surprisingly knowledgeable.

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker and is coming back tomorrow to add a breaker to one of the showers.

a sparky? Fix that one then, as it should not spark anywhere. i agree with with Steve, dont just upgrade your fuse, be aware of the cables. Otherwise you could have a fire .

 

        HELLO !?!?!?!?  a "sparky" is an electrician, not a sparking wire........................duh.

[Anythingleft?]

To you electrical knowledgeable guys , what is your gut feeling about electrical installations in Thailand , especially domestics as they may well be installed by a " master of all trades " and probably not independently inspected .
Secondly are you aware of any national standard qualification on a parity with the UK 17th edition ?
Finding any qualified tradesman in Thailand is a difficult task compared with the UK etc .

Not a gut feeling just personal experience that they are mainly substandard. If you have any work carried out my suggestion is to

1. Learn about it yourself to get a grasp of what needs to be done and how (if you dont already know)
2. Watch them during the entire process
3. Dont be afraid to stop them and check what they are doing, especially when they are closing boxes etc (make them open them for inspection)
4. Give any earth wires a good old tug as more than a few dont go anywhere except for into a conduit for visual purposes
5. Keep the final payment back until satisfied

They soon get to understand that you will be checking and come to find you instead of opening boxes twice or trying to shortcut quite so quickly........

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Aussieroaming]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:37 AM, Neeranam said:

Thanks a lot Crossy.

 

I managed to find a sparky, who is surprisingly knowledgeable.

He said we have overload and increased the ampage of the breaker and is coming back tomorrow to add a breaker to one of the showers.

What has been installed recently that has led to an overloaded circuit breaker? I agree with others, dont just install a higher rated circuit breaker without doing due dilligence in regards to the cable rating and circuit load limit.

[Neeranam]

Thanks to all for the replies and advice.

The big problem for me in situations like this is that the Thai doesn't want to talk to me, despite the fact I speak Thai.

The electricians mate(assistant) spoke to me all about the technical stuff, whereas the main man wouldn't, which is annoying. 

Nothing new has been added to the house recently. 

I had to go to work, so missed some of the conversation.

They changed two breakers to 32 amps. One was for the outside pond pump.

They said that the shower(water heater) was the culprit, which I find stage as it was off when the breaker tripped.

One thing I was happy about was that they searched all the cables in the attic and everywhere. They said that there was a problem with the shower cable, it was worn, and dangerous.

 

[Anythingleft?]

Thanks to all for the replies and advice.

The big problem for me in situations like this is that the Thai doesn't want to talk to me, despite the fact I speak Thai.

The electricians mate(assistant) spoke to me all about the technical stuff, whereas the main man wouldn't, which is annoying. 

Nothing new has been added to the house recently. 

I had to go to work, so missed some of the conversation.

They changed two breakers to 32 amps. One was for the outside pond pump.

They said that the shower(water heater) was the culprit, which I find stage as it was off when the breaker tripped.

One thing I was happy about was that they searched all the cables in the attic and everywhere. They said that there was a problem with the shower cable, it was worn, and dangerous.

 

That really does not sound like a proper repair to me

 

Red flag that the guy wont talk to you for a start as that usually interprets to a lack of job knowledge

Second red flag is the go to solution of bunging in bigger breakers, add to that you already know that a particular circuit was off when a trip happened....

 

 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[sotsira]

57 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

They said that the shower(water heater) was the culprit, which I find stage as it was off when the breaker tripped.

One thing I was happy about was that they searched all the cables in the attic and everywhere. They said that there was a problem with the shower cable, it was worn, and dangerous.

 

A water heater can cause a breaker to trip even when it's not

operating, I've had it happen to me before.

 

In my case it was a faulty element inside the heater, did they open up the shower water heater and inspect it?

 

If they said the shower cable is worn & dangerous, then it should be replaced, usually this cable should be 4mm for a

6kw unit, otherwise 2.5mm will do. I would still recommend 

4mm live & neutral.

If your shower unit is old, I would replace that as well to be on the safe side.

[Uptooyoo]

Another cause of breaker trips is when the connection at the breaker becomes loose or becomes corroded. This condition creates resistance to current flow, creating heat at the terminal. The heat then conducts from the terminal to the thermal element inside the breaker (what causes the breaker to trip on overload) and trips the breaker. Check all wire connections are tight with no signs of overheating; e.g. melted or discolored insulation. Also, open your main breaker and then pull your small breakers to inspect the connections to the buss bar. All should be clean with no signs of overheating.

[toofarnorth]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:24 AM, Phuketshrew said:

Maybe it's the mushrooms?

I thought churchy breakers were a dance group that wear long black frocks.