Phuket Immigration and Retirement Extension

[a3tsw]

Just been to Phuket Immigration to Extend my Non-Imm O Visa for the first time. I am a U.K. passport holder and was aware that they had ceased issuing the income verification letter and had not applied early enough before the cut-off date and had therefore missed out. I took all the documents listed on the piv website , but was refused the extension due to not having 800,000baht in my Thai bank account , the combo method is no longer allowed , without Embassy Letter

. They would not accept my U.K. State Pension statement.

I had 545,000baht in my Thai account + £193.94pw State Pension , so well over the 800,000baht requirement.

Not really all that fussed about it , as I only intend to spend Winter in Thailand anyway , what annoys me most is all the running around obtaining bank letters , photo of house , map of house , copies of passport , confirmation of address.

So , just to summarise ...Phuket Immigration ...No Embassy Letter ...No Combo Method Allowed.

 

 

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[Pattaya46]

13 minutes ago, a3tsw said:

So , just to summarise ...Phuket Immigration ...No Embassy Letter ...No Combo Method Allowed.

Same rule everywhere: Embassy Letter required for Income and Combo method.

Why did you think Phuket would be different and would accept it ?

[a3tsw]

Same rule everywhere: Embassy Letter required for Income and Combo method.
Why did you think Phuket would be different and would accept it ?

I did not know that they would not accept my U.K. Pension statement ...now I do know ..


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[Felt 35]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Same rule everywhere: Embassy Letter required for Income and Combo method.

Why did you think Phuket would be different and would accept it ?

Unless something new are on the books in the last days, its only Phuket Immigration which have stated that only money (800K) in bank is accepted for retirement extension!

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, a3tsw said:

I did not know that they would not accept my U.K. Pension statement ...now I do know ..

At some offices, you might have stood a chance, given your embassy no longer provides letters.  One guy reported getting an income-based extension w/o an embassy-letter at the Mukdahan office.  In theory, a combo would be easier to get, since part of the requirement is met by money in a Thai bank. 

 

But, Phuket is known as one of the least helpful/flexible offices, so your only option there would probably be via an agent, for a considerable additional fee.

[a3tsw]

At some offices, you might have stood a chance, given your embassy no longer provides letters.  One guy reported getting an income-based extension w/o an embassy-letter at the Mukdahan office.  In theory, a combo would be easier to get, since part of the requirement is met by money in a Thai bank. 
 
But, Phuket is known as one of the least helpful/flexible offices, so your only option there would probably be via an agent, for a considerable additional fee.

Yes , they have been nothing but obstructive. I arrived here from London at the end of Sept with a non imm O Visa , single entry , valid for 90 days , I was informed by the embassy in London that a combination of state Pension and money in the bank for 2 months initially would suffice for the one year extension and at the time of application my Pension statement from DWP was accepted as proof of income for the Visa. So it was accepted in the Thai Embassy in London , but not today in Phuket Immigration....
As soon as I arrived in Phuket , I went to the Immigration Office to register my address and was told by the volunteer checking documents a list of stuff I had to bring. I went back the next Day with what he asked for , got a number ticket and waited about 1 hr to be seen by an official , who looked through the papers ,then asked me for another document which the volunteer had not asked me to bring , this document that they now wanted was all in Thai language and I took a photo of it on my phone , went back home again and looked through every paper that I had and found something similar , went back the next day and they still wouldn’t accept this new doc and didn’t/couldn’t explain what it was they wanted. I was making no progress at all with them and this was just to register my address , I ended up going to an agent and they sorted it out for 2,000baht , but told me that every time I left the country , I would have To go through all this palaver each time I returned , even though I had not changed address.
So , since I arrived here in Sept , I have had occasion to visit Phuket Immigration 4 times and have been sent from pillar to post on each occasion. On 25 Dec. My visa will expire and I will be outta here, if you happen to here a loud bang on Xmas Day that will be me slamming the door on this place..hell yeah!!


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[from the home of CC]

Sounds like the result of a lot of bad timing, hope 2019 treats ya better.

[JackThompson]

53 minutes ago, a3tsw said:

Yes , they have been nothing but obstructive. I arrived here from London at the end of Sept with a non imm O Visa , single entry , valid for 90 days , I was informed by the embassy in London that a combination of state Pension and money in the bank for 2 months initially would suffice for the one year extension and at the time of application my Pension statement from DWP was accepted as proof of income for the Visa. So it was accepted in the Thai Embassy in London , but not today in Phuket Immigration....

It is not a new thing that one needs an embassy-letter for any sort of income-portion of an extension application.  What has changed is the unavailability of those letters - and immigration's refusal to issue a policy-directive in the wake of that change.

 

Quote

...

I ended up going to an agent and they sorted it out for 2,000baht , but told me that every time I left the country , I would have To go through all this palaver each time I returned , even though I had not changed address.

2000 Baht is crazy for a simple TM-30 address-report - but I am not surprised, given that office.

 

Quote

... 
So , since I arrived here in Sept , I have had occasion to visit Phuket Immigration 4 times and have been sent from pillar to post on each occasion. On 25 Dec. My visa will expire and I will be outta here, if you happen to here a loud bang on Xmas Day that will be me slamming the door on this place..hell yeah!!

 

Yes, they really don't want long-term people staying down there.  At many offices, you would have had no major problems - up until this "embassy letter" fiasco, at least.  

Anyone wanting to stay in that office's jurisdiction long-term should go the "Non-OA Visa" route, from their passport-country embassy, if possible. 

 

Alternatively, there are many other jurisdictions in Thailand which are generally-friendly to "based on retirement" type extensions.

Edited December 20, 2018 by JackThompson

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

What has changed is the unavailability of those letters -

and immigration's refusal to issue a policy-directive in the wake of that change.

- For 4 countries (only) and on decision of their embassy

- Which refusal? Where did you see that? In the first place, for them to refuse you would have needed someone to ask them... Who did it?  AFAIK: nobody.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

- For 4 countries (only) and on decision of their embassy

- Which refusal? Where did you see that? In the first place, for them to refuse you would have needed someone to ask them... Who did it?  AFAIK: nobody.

I don't think we know how the embassies "decision" really came about, given they refuse to release the full info - but, some news broke that maybe Immigration will address the issue with a new Police Order which would carry official weight.  See:

 

[a3tsw]

 
Yes, they really don't want long-term people staying down there.  At many offices, you would have had no major problems - up until this "embassy letter" fiasco, at least.  

Anyone wanting to stay in that office's jurisdiction long-term should go the "Non-OA Visa" route, from their passport-country embassy, if possible. 
 
Alternatively, there are many other jurisdictions in Thailand which are generally-friendly to "based on retirement" type extensions.

Well , I didn’t much fancy heading back to the U.K. in the middle of Winter , so decided to try my luck at Savannakhet , having read good reports on this site , mostly by people applying for the Visa based on marriage , couldn’t find any mention of anyone getting a visa based on retirement, but thought , why the hell not just give it a go. Arrived on Xmas Day in the afternoon and went to the consulate to make enquiries as to what I should bring the following morning , by way of documents and find out if they issued a visa based on retirement , the official that I spoke to told me I must bring my Pension statement and bank statement, copy of passport and Laos entry stamp. Was not asked for embassy declaration.
Took the aforementioned documents at 09:00 the following morning and was told 5,000baht multiple entry non-imm O and told I could collect next Day at 14:00.
A much better experience than Phuket , albeit a bit of a trek to get there.


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[dick dasterdly]

On 12/20/2018 at 1:23 PM, Pattaya46 said:

Same rule everywhere: Embassy Letter required for Income and Combo method.

Why did you think Phuket would be different and would accept it ?

Because some have been saying that Immigration would accept 'proof of income' without an embassy letter?

 

I think this is the first case we've heard of re. Phuket Immigration's attitude towards those without an embassy letter, even if they have proof of income?

 

Hopefully, the 'powers that be' will come up with accepted income proof via Thai bank statements etc. - but I'm not holding my breath on this one.....

 

Our embassies that have decided not to issue their letters any more (even though there is nothing else in place to replace their letters), have let us down - badly ☹️.

[moontang]

1) get an O-A in your home country.

2) make sure your landlord is well versed on TM 30.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, a3tsw said:

A much better experience than Phuket , albeit a bit of a trek to get there.

Might not Penang be a more convenient destination than Savannakhet in your case for future non-O's based on retirement if need be? Recent(-ish) report in the following thread:-

 

 

[a3tsw]

Might not Penang be a more convenient destination than Savannakhet in your case for future non-O's based on retirement if need be? Recent(-ish) report in the following thread:-
 
[/url]  

I did consider going to Penang but the reports I read on this site gave Savannakhet some very good praise and I intended to take a side trip up to Loei Province anyway (that never panned out due to being let down on a promise of a homestay arrangement I had made previously). Thanks for the link, maybe next Year for Penang then[emoji1303]


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[a3tsw]

1) get an O-A in your home country.
2) make sure your landlord is well versed on TM 30.

That was part of the confusion in Phuket , as I am the landlord and the tenant. When I went to Phuket Immigration for the first time. I spoke with the volunteer to find out what I needed to bring to register my address and when I told him that I was the owner of the house that I lived in he replied , “they won’t like that.” Referring to the Phuket Immigration officials - and he was right. I am quite happy with the visa that I got from Savannakhet, as I will not have to go through this rigmarole again.


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[moontang]

24 minutes ago, a3tsw said:

That was part of the confusion in Phuket , as I am the landlord and the tenant. When I went to Phuket Immigration for the first time. I spoke with the volunteer to find out what I needed to bring to register my address and when I told him that I was the owner of the house that I lived in he replied , “they won’t like that.” Referring to the Phuket Immigration officials - and he was right. I am quite happy with the visa that I got from Savannakhet, as I will not have to go through this rigmarole again.


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If you actually owned a house, you wouldn't need a visa, period.  Some kind of lease, company, gray area..?  Owning a condo is different....but you still can be fined for not reporting.  Did you get a year or just 90 days?

[skatewash]

33 minutes ago, moontang said:

If you actually owned a house, you wouldn't need a visa, period.  Some kind of lease, company, gray area..?  Owning a condo is different....but you still can be fined for not reporting.  Did you get a year or just 90 days?

 

A non-Thai can own a house (or indeed any building) in their own name.  They cannot own land in their own name.  A foreigner could legally own their house while renting the land upon which the house rests.  A foreign-owned business can directly own land.  The gray area is when the foreign-owned business only exists for the sole purpose of owning land for the foreign owner.  Many foreigners own a condo unit and a share of the common areas of the condo including the land under the Thai Condominium Act.  It is important to note that in no case may a non-Thai own 50% or more of a condominium under the Thai Condominium Act. 

The only gray area is when a foreigner creates a legal business whose sole reason for existing is to own land for the benefit of the foreigner.  The other types of ownership are quite legal in Thailand for foreigners.

[moontang]

You are still a tenant on the land...and it does bring a lot of attention to one's arrangement.  

[xylophone]

On 12/20/2018 at 4:12 PM, Felt 35 said:

Unless something new are on the books in the last days, its only Phuket Immigration which have stated that only money (800K) in bank is accepted for retirement extension!

If your Embassy is one of those which has refused to issue the letter confirming your income, then the 800k (or less if married to a Thai??) route is the only option open to you unless you use an agent, AFAIK.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

If your Embassy is one of those which has refused to issue the letter confirming your income, then the 800k (or less if married to a Thai??) route is the only option open to you unless you use an agent, AFAIK.

At this time without a proof of income from an embassy the money in the bank option is the only official option but there may be a few office with accept the proof of the income going into a Thai bank.

The US embassy have stated they have seen a draft of a police order allowing the option of showing money going into a Thai bank as proof of income.

[a3tsw]

At some offices, you might have stood a chance, given your embassy no longer provides letters.  One guy reported getting an income-based extension w/o an embassy-letter at the Mukdahan office.  In theory, a combo would be easier to get, since part of the requirement is met by money in a Thai bank. 
 
But, Phuket is known as one of the least helpful/flexible offices, so your only option there would probably be via an agent, for a considerable additional fee.

Hi , thanks for this information. I went up there and they were very helpful, got my visa and was in and seen to in 15minutes.


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[Psimbo]

2 hours ago, a3tsw said:

That was part of the confusion in Phuket , as I am the landlord and the tenant. When I went to Phuket Immigration for the first time. I spoke with the volunteer to find out what I needed to bring to register my address and when I told him that I was the owner of the house that I lived in he replied , “they won’t like that.” Referring to the Phuket Immigration officials - and he was right. I am quite happy with the visa that I got from Savannakhet, as I will not have to go through this rigmarole again.


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Why not just register the property online- plenty in the Phuket Section about it. Once set up it takes about 30 seconds to re-register yourself on return,

 

You may want to ask the Mods to move this to the Phuket Section of the forums as people with local knowledge may miss it here and you can get meaningless and irrelevant 'advice' from elsewhere.

 

PS- its a Retirement PERMIT, not a visa.

[JackThompson]

On 12/30/2018 at 6:56 PM, a3tsw said:

On 12/20/2018 at 4:12 PM, JackThompson said:

At some offices, you might have stood a chance, given your embassy no longer provides letters.  One guy reported getting an income-based extension w/o an embassy-letter at the Mukdahan office.  In theory, a combo would be easier to get, since part of the requirement is met by money in a Thai bank. 
 
But, Phuket is known as one of the least helpful/flexible offices, so your only option there would probably be via an agent, for a considerable additional fee.

Hi , thanks for this information. I went up there and they were very helpful, got my visa and was in and seen to in 15minutes.

I was speaking of the Mukdahan Thai Immigration office, where the only known case of a successful extension based on income w/o Embassy Letter was reported issued by Immigration. 

 

But glad to hear the Savannakhet Thai Consulate (in Laos) gave you a Multiple-Entry Non-O. ...

On 12/30/2018 at 10:24 AM, a3tsw said:

Well , I didn’t much fancy heading back to the U.K. in the middle of Winter , so decided to try my luck at Savannakhet , having read good reports on this site , mostly by people applying for the Visa based on marriage , couldn’t find any mention of anyone getting a visa based on retirement, but thought , why the hell not just give it a go. Arrived on Xmas Day in the afternoon and went to the consulate to make enquiries as to what I should bring the following morning , by way of documents and find out if they issued a visa based on retirement , the official that I spoke to told me I must bring my Pension statement and bank statement, copy of passport and Laos entry stamp. Was not asked for embassy declaration.
Took the aforementioned documents at 09:00 the following morning and was told 5,000baht multiple entry non-imm O and told I could collect next Day at 14:00.

I thought the Multiple-Entry version was only issued based on Marriage to a Thai at the Savannakhet Consulate?  If this has changed, that is great news for many people - especially given your Pension Statement was accepted in-lieu of Embassy Letter. 

 

Savannakhet has been a good place to get a Single-Entry Non-O Visa based on retirement (2000 Baht) for some time.

Edited December 31, 2018 by JackThompson

[phuketrichard]

On 12/30/2018 at 5:00 PM, moontang said:

If you actually owned a house, you wouldn't need a visa, period.  Some kind of lease, company, gray area..?  Owning a condo is different....but you still can be fined for not reporting.  Did you get a year or just 90 days?

HUH:
I Own my house (not the land) but still need get a visa