Consul General for US Embassy Bangkok Interview

[farangx]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

No I've already barfed on your voluminous verbiage food for thought. If the Thai IMM actually does put in a monthly income extension of stay via an FTT-type bank deposit, they'll either have to find ways to scuttle the 'myriad' workarounds or just put up with them.

 

I'll just wait for any official announcement.

I have thought about this FTT-type transactions, one could fake this income by remitting the 65K back home for recycling the following month.  A local bank account balance of say 200+K can make this look less obvious.  Using cash to send money back into that foreign bank account may not be a bad idea.

 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Well we are sure that everything already mention here,  will perhaps occure sometime.

 

I personnaly don't believe anything from anyone ( foreign officials included ) anymore.

 

I just wait till an official amendment to the actual directives of T. I. is published.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

And, even when (and if) any amending directive were issued by the Immigration Bureau, there would be absolutely no guarantee that each and every immigration office in LOS would comply with its provisions right away. Not every office did so in the case of the 2013 directive authorising a maximum validity period of 6 months for embassy income confirmations, for example, and one office (Petchaburi) was recently reported on here as still requiring such confirmations (from embassies still issuing them, of course) to be no older than 3 months!

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, farangx said:

I have thought about this FTT-type transactions, one could fake this income 

Maybe the IMM folks have thought about this too.

 

I'll wait for the rules to be issued before I start to cogitate how one might  circumvent the rules -- meanwhile I am scheduled to do the OA in US next summer if this all turns out to be naught.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by JLCrab

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

If the Thai IMM actually does put in a monthly income extension of stay via an FTT-type bank deposit, they'll either have to find ways to scuttle the 'myriad' workarounds or just put up with them.

Right. I have a hard time believing that it will be as easy as showing monthly FTTs going in. Without any supporting documents, that's pretty much worthless as proof of actual income.

[hereforgood]

I have had about 1 million baht parked in Bangkok Bank for about 6 or 7 years I am assuming this will be ok as it always has been When I renew my retirement extension in May?

[Olmate]

11 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

I have had about 1 million baht parked in Bangkok Bank for about 6 or 7 years I am assuming this will be ok as it always has been When I renew my retirement extension in May?

What would it have earned in bank at home I wonder? 

[hereforgood]

What would it have earned in bank at home I wonder? 

Getting 1.5% here could not get that at home my u.s. bank that I had been with for 20 years told me they could do no better or even match it

Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

Right. I have a hard time believing that it will be as easy as showing monthly FTTs going in. Without any supporting documents, that's pretty much worthless as proof of actual income.

The question is, are the bank/xfer fees and trouble of doing international money-recycling worth more than 15K+ Baht to their agents?  If so, to what percentage of those who have lost embassy income letters would go to this trouble?  This will determine the nature of whatever Police-Order directive is issued (if any). 

 

If they think many will use a "money-recycling" workaround, then look for some sort of "agent certification" of income-source documents to be included - to get that fee into the mix, by hook or by crook.

[JLCrab]

I think for anyone who brings in more than 65K baht per month from sources outside Thailand anyway, all that agent / recycling consideration is bunk.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The question is, are the bank/xfer fees and trouble of doing international money-recycling worth more than 15K+ Baht to their agents? 

Of course yes,

because first solution give you a legal extension

while the second doesn't...

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The question is, are the bank/xfer fees and trouble of doing international money-recycling worth more than 15K+ Baht to their agents?  If so, to what percentage of those who have lost embassy income letters would go to this trouble?  This will determine the nature of whatever Police-Order directive is issued (if any). 

 

If they think many will use a "money-recycling" workaround, then look for some sort of "agent certification" of income-source documents to be included - to get that fee into the mix, by hook or by crook.

I agree and I  believe they will not change the police order at all and thus avoid anyone being able to produce something in writing to challenge anything.  IMO- they will issue an internal; memo to all regional offices who will then pass it down with their own interpretation.  This will amount to some ongoing confusion like we have had in the past. However, the agent system  gets rid of the confusion and makes things go smoothly.

I hope I am wrong as I and others want to avoid agents and deal directly with Immigration but  not everyone who is married can put up with the  timed runaround that  their extension may entail.

[Saltire]

With regards to TransferWise who I have been using for 18 months for transfers from Santander UK into my Krung Thai Bank for general living expenses - I don't rely on income but have had the 800k there since I opened the account. My personal concern is if at some point I have to go the combo or income route.

 

When this situation arose I looked at my incoming transactions in my pass book. For TransferWise the code was BSD22 = local transfer, For 4 earlier transfers, pre TransferWise, (HSBC and ABA Cambodia), the code was BNSDT - BAHTNET or International. 

 

I have to say here I love TransferWise and would hate to have to go back to a thieving bank. Their support is second to none - they reply fully to all enquiries quickly, and service this week was exceptional with my transfer request made at 9 AM Monday arriving just 4 hours later into KTB.

 

Anyway I wrote to them asking them what they could do to ensure incoming money showed the original country/bank. Their response was that their fees are cheap as the avoid SWIFT and have local partners in each country they service. My TransferWise receipts show it coming from Bangkok Bank and TMB. But they were savvy enough to see the problem straight off the bat and their development team asked me for more info, which I provided today. 

 

Their statements and reports are excellent but the originating bank details do not appear anywhere, just the originating currency. I could easily match up my bank statements with TransferWise receipts with KTB bank book but I fear no office would accept that.

 

I have confidence they will seriously look at this as the impact could be less transfers.

 

 

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The question is, are the bank/xfer fees and trouble of doing international money-recycling worth more than 15K+ Baht to their agents? 

Of course yes,

because first solution give you a legal extension

while the second doesn't...

However if you had to sign a document in the IMM office that you had not recycled any funds, then neither would be legal.

[abrahamzvi]

18 hours ago, fforest1 said:

If only money from out side of Thailand can be used for income...Then that is like saying your money in Thailand is no good...Dont invest or start a income producing business in Thailand ever because that income and that money is no good....

That is an incorrect (viciously so, I assume) interpretation. One can produce a bank statement from a Thai bank confirming either the transfer of income of BHT 65,000 monthly, or a deposit of BHT 800,000. The aim is to make sure that the retiree has an amount of BHT 65,000 monthly at her/his disposal in Thailand.

[4myr]

30 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Their statements and reports are excellent but the originating bank details do not appear anywhere, just the originating currency. I could easily match up my bank statements with TransferWise receipts with KTB bank book but I fear no office would accept that.

 

I have confidence they will seriously look at this as the impact could be less transfers.

 

To second this, on my TFW statement to Kasikorn Bank, the originating bank is the address and name as stated in my TFW account profile, with the origin amount and the converted amount. In addition I have a borderless TFW account, so I can show the officer the TFW debit card with my name on it as well, to show TFW is a real bank.

[skatewash]

UPDATE:  a video of the interview has been posted at the above link.

 

The video starts off with some interesting small talk (there are approximately 75,000 Americans living in Thailand, American Embassy Bangkok is perhaps the largest US embassy in the world with 1,800 total staff), but extension of stay issues don't really begin until the 12:00 mark.

Edited December 21, 2018 by skatewash

[Bill Miller]

I think a little imagination might suggest transferring Thai earned funds from condos, houses, whatever, into a bank account outside of Thailand, then bringing it into your Thai retirement account to satisfy that "international transfer" notation that appears for every such transaction in my Bkk Bank savings account.
I am looking into having my SS direct deposited into that account, and bringing additional funds from my investment account as needed. My FCU does it gratis on their end, and near as I can figure Bkk Bank does not charge very much.
Income on my investment account is dispersed quarterly, so I just have to remember to keep enough funds in the credit union to bring over on the monthly basis. At least I hope that is the way it will work.
I read in one post that immigration decreed no averaging, it must be every month. I hope they do not insist on 65,000 or 40,000 as a  single lump sum, as long as we bring in the minimum in the course of the month.

[JLCrab]

This 65K+ baht FTT-type monthly bank deposit scheme has yet to be implemented -- if it ever is -- and already the ThaiVisa bunco squad members are out in full regalia.

 

So what else is new ... and then some ask why I prefer to be a farang-avoiding recluse only dealing with non-English speaking young Thai girls.

[lopburi3]

29 minutes ago, skatewash said:

The video starts off with some interesting small talk (there are approximately 75,000 Americans living in Thailand, American Embassy Bangkok is perhaps the largest US embassy in the world with 1,800 total staff), but extension of stay issues don't really begin until the 12:00 mark.

Interesting - in late 1970's the Embassy had about 600 total staff and was considered the largest in the world at that time.  And that was all in the building attached to the current visa section (which actually opened about 40 years ago and has not moved since). 

[mfd101]

Well, watching the video from beginning to end is something EVERYONE on TV should do.

 

The US Consul General & currently acting deputy Ambassador is a GOOD ALLROUND GUY - intelligent, well-informed and affable. I hope that some people on TV who think that all public/civil servants are stupid, evil, corrupt & ignorant might learn something from this video.

 

He's pretty clear on where things are at with the Thais re income affidavits etc, with a new Police Order likely in the next few days. Unless I missed it, the detail of HOW to assure TI of our incomes under the new regime wasn't really covered, but it does seem pretty sure that the current 3 broad types of approach (money in the bank, monthly income, combo) remain but the bank has to be a Thai one.

[Suradit69]

10 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

 

Seems that the people on all the other threads that said income in a Thai bank was the way it was going to go, were right

 

To be picky, "income" and bank deposits aren't the same thing. The income affidavit method simply ( in theory ) showed what you had available each month. There was no requirement or assumption that that income was deposited into a Thai bank .  Many people would have transferred in more or less than the baht 65,000/ baht 40,000 per month depending on their needs.

 

I agree that evidence of baht 65,000 / 40,000 going into a Thai bank is probably the most obvious, most hassle-free (for immigrations) way to go, but it is not the same as "proving" income, and I've said that in other threads, but just because you've managed to deposit the appropriate amount during the past x months does not offer any assurance that the money comes from a continuing income stream that is likely to continue in future, which the income affidavit (in theory) did.

 

[farangx]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

The video starts off with some interesting small talk (there are approximately 75,000 Americans living in Thailand, American Embassy Bangkok is perhaps the largest US embassy in the world with 1,800 total staff),

That number is good to know, helps me guess how many expats are here as retirees.

 

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

but just because you've managed to deposit the appropriate amount during the past x months does not offer any assurance that the money comes from a continuing income stream that is likely to continue in future,

Then you won't maybe be able to get an extension of stay in the future.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

I agree that evidence of baht 65,000 / 40,000 going into a Thai bank is probably the most obvious, most hassle-free (for immigrations) way to go, but it is not the same as "proving" income, //

One problem though is that if you just need to send 12 times 65k to qualify for your yearly extension, then nobody will use the 800k in the bank option anymore, and those who did will move to this 12x65k a lot easier for our finances...

[farangx]

5 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

I agree that evidence of baht 65,000 / 40,000 going into a Thai bank is probably the most obvious, most hassle-free (for immigrations) way to go, but it is not the same as "proving" income, and I've said that in other threads, but just because you've managed to deposit the appropriate amount during the past x months does not offer any assurance that the money comes from a continuing income stream that is likely to continue in future, which the income affidavit (in theory) did.

I don't use income statements, but I can see the same 65K recycled into a Thai bank account month after month, so I am interested to know the safeguards TI have in place to prevent this from happening.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

agree that evidence of baht 65,000 / 40,000 going into a Thai bank is probably the most obvious, most hassle-free (for immigrations) way to go, but it is not the same as "proving" income, and I've said that in other threads, but just because you've managed to deposit the appropriate amount during the past x months does not offer any assurance that the money comes from a continuing income stream that is likely to continue in future, which the income affidavit (in theory) did.

Completely agree and I have made that point known to the Consul General.  IMO- Thai Imm needs to be more flexible as the  transferring of funds each month can be onerous for some as they have more than the needed amount and can prove it.

 

Then there  is the issue of  those who have invested in an income producing business in Thailand; some married- some not. Completely legal and taxes paid. Are they going to be required to then send their money to their home country and have it sent back via transfer to a Thai bank. Absurd.

 

Then there is the combo method- why  would a person with 600K in a Thai bank have to have monthly transfers when they could  simply use their foreign ATM to get the money each month  from a Thai ATM and if necessary deposit it in a Thai bank or just show the receipts. Or simply show a pension letter indicating xx amount per month.

 

There needs to be much more flexibility in the system than what I have heard and as  the poster mentioned- none of this shows that a person actually has an  income stream .

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, farangx said:

I don't use income statements, but I can see the same 65K recycled into a Thai bank account month after month, so I am interested to know the safeguards TI have in place to prevent this from happening.

Maybe so can they.

 

The 800K baht deposit can be a one-time deal but the 65K+ baht monthly deposit should in theory be a new source of funds every month.

 

But according to the US Consul General, there should be a new Police Order shortly after the new year so maybe we can wait until then before going on about how it should have been something different or how the bunco squad can cheat the system.

Edited December 21, 2018 by JLCrab

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Then there  is the issue of  those who have invested in an income producing business in Thailand; some married- some not. Completely legal and taxes paid. Are they going to be required to then send their money to their home country and have it sent back via transfer to a Thai bank. Absurd.

 

Income earned here legally can be proven by showing a tax return.

[tropo]

19 hours ago, JackThompson said:

They didn't say that they would not consider earnings in Thailand, though.  Those (tax-statements, etc) would not be hard for immigration to verify - would even be in the Thai language.

 

One can own condos, businesses, and other income-generating investments in Thailand without violating "retirement" terms / needing a work-permit.

 

It is common for those working in Thailand to provide evidence of their in-country income as part of their extension process - including those who choose to use a Non-O (family) vs a Non-B.

 

I share your hope that foreign bank-xfers will be key.  I'm still skpetical, given I can imagine how this "income" could easily be faked (thus reducing their planned agent-money windfall) - but hope you are right, as it would make it easy for me to just stick to a monthly xfer regime from a USA bank.  Better yet if I could xfer money quarterly - but even a monthly xfer option is better than nothing.

Then there's the question of how many months of transfers they will need to see. 800k needs to be seasoned for 3 months, so I would expect they would want to see at least a whole year of monthly transfers. That would make it too late for most of us that don't make monthly deposits.

[tropo]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The issue, in either case, would be proving the offense occurred - but the passport-country would usually have better access to one's complete financial info to make such a case.  This is why the embassy-letters were by far the superior deterrent to fraud. 

I agree. Thai immigration's punishment for false income declarations would amount to kicking the applicant out of the country - end of story. They wouldn't even need to prove they were false as mere suspicion would be sufficient. They won't be running court cases and jailing offenders. That would be a waste of court time and public funds. Court cases take months here.