Consul General for US Embassy Bangkok Interview

[Olmate]

6 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

And their debates, arguments, name calling. What a mess when people are forced to bring money into Thailand in a certain away. Glad they don't verify the money is earned by illegal means like prostitution, scamming, drug and arms trafficking, etc. For an E5 visa for the US, you will be asked to prove the money is not obtained by illegal means. Of course agents (they call it lawyers or law farms in the US), can do it no question asked. 

You mean there are immigration agents elsewhere! Do they charge for their expertise and connections I wonder?Are they legal? Some on here will be mortified ...

[Suradit69]

7 hours ago, JLCrab said:

According to the US Consul General in the OP, Thai IMM does not want to get involved in reviewing source documents as that may prove a logistical nightmare in the IMM offices.

 

And to all the suggesting as to how this is not really income or there are 'myriad' ways to fudge the monthly deposits, maybe wait to sees what the rules actually are should they become available next JAN.

My original point, somewhat lost in the discussion, was the definition of "income."  Theoretically the whole point of getting your embassy to certify your "income" was to establish that you were receiving and would continue to receive regular payments from pensions or something similar. 

 

You might be sitting on a pile of cash that enables you to make monthly deposits into a Thai bank account but not have a regular monthly income. You may very well be able to keep shifting the Baht 65,000 a month into a Thai bank account from your cash hoard, but still not have anything that could be described as income.

 

Presumably you would be ineligible to use the income or combination method if you had that cash hoard, but no regular income. Under those circumstances, rather than using the income method the way to meet immigrations' requirements would be to shift baht 800,000 ( or 400,000) into a Thai bank and forget about making any claims to a regular income. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Suradit69

[JLCrab]

45 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

My original point, somewhat lost in the discussion, was the definition of "income."

My apologies -- I didn't realize you were making a point. Meanwhile I'll just wait to see what is the new Police Order rather than try to dissect the minutia of what the new Police Order might be.

Edited December 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[mfd101]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:55 AM, JackThompson said:

I hope your Transferwise showed up as a foreign-transfer in your bank-statement.  Some report it does not always appear this way. 

 

I would not expect immigration to accept a PDF printout from transferwise or foreign-bank statements as "evidence" that a deposit showing as non-foreign in one's Thai bank-statement actually had a foreign-source.

Shows FTT in my bankbook.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

My original point, somewhat lost in the discussion, was the definition of "income."  Theoretically the whole point of getting your embassy to certify your "income" was to establish that you were receiving and would continue to receive regular payments from pensions or something similar.

My exact point- if the purpose of the Embassy Letter was to establish an income stream of some type that was consistently 65K/40K per month for the year and then Thai Immigration/Embassy indicated this was not sufficient because no one verified the information-  it appears they will eventually accept a transfer from abroad in the amount of 65K per month in which there is no verification of an income stream.

 

If this is going to be the income method why have we gone through the charade of not accepting Embassy Letters or the Embassies not producing them? The same people who lied about their income on the Embassy Letter can easily produce a single 65K transfer each month or use an agent ,

[Suradit69]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If this is going to be the income method why have we gone through the charade of not accepting Embassy Letters or the Embassies not producing them? The same people who lied about their income on the Embassy Letter can easily produce a single 65K transfer each month or use an agent ,

Unintended consequences. Spot a supposed problem. Attempt to fix it and then stand back in amazement when chaos ensues.

 

I have no idea how many people were using the income or combination method or how many of them were fudging the numbers (or paying agents to fudge them), but I'm sure those who weren't honest with the  income affidavit,  will quickly find new ways to achieve the same result.

 

At least I'll save the $50 the embassy charged as well as the lost time and associated expenses trekking to Bangkok or attending an embassy outreach. I'm going to put the 800,000 in the bank and stand on the sidelines to watch how this all settles. I have more important things to do with my time ... like watching reruns of the Big Bang Theory on TV or scrolling through posts on Thai Visa.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Suradit69

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

My apologies -- I didn't realize you were making a point.

I try not to be too obvious with points being made and smother them with distracting subtlety.

 

Despite my best efforts to employ camouflage, you at least seem to have ferreted out things meriting your several responses.

 

I will allow you the last word if you're so motivated.

[Lacessit]

I prefer to have my money earning dividends and interest in Australia, rather than having it doing not much here.

Monthly transfers of 65,000 baht are impractical for me, due to exchange rate fluctuations and transfer fees. I don't understand why Transferwise merits such praise, because to me their fees are not cheap.

I'll continue to transfer a lump sum once a year, timing it so it boosts my bank balance above 800,000 baht before the 3-month seasoning period kicks in. Then spend it down for the rest of the year.

 

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

I will allow you the last word if you're so motivated.

Right -- interesting to read the various points and folks taking a stance on the new Police Order even though nobody as yet knows what really is in the new Police Order.

[farangx]

11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Right -- interesting to read the various points and folks taking a stance on the new Police Order even though nobody as yet knows what really is in the new Police Order.

Never under estimate that art of fear ....

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

Some posters have mentioned a FTT "money-recycling" workaround. Please expand or clarify this point. As a person was has repatriated money from a Thai bank the hurdles seemed almost insurmountable. I had to show that all taxes had been paid and only the bank's head office in Bangkok would only do the transfer. A major headache. 

Quite easy actually, there a lot of independent transfers of money that bypass the international banking system. Very many Thai people outside Thailand (it has to work the other way I just don't have personal knowledge) give their foreign currency to an agent (I know 3 of them in different Japanese cities) The agreed amount in Baht is then transferred into the Thai account designated, usually within minutes or hours.

 

TransferWise is an inbound variation of that system, there is also an outbound company (I forget the name)

Edited December 22, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[lopburi3]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't understand why Transferwise merits such praise, because to me their fees are not cheap.

Believe it is recommended for US for good reasons - fee is about 1% of what is sent and you receive better than Thai bank exchange rate.  Current check at about 1520 today.

2,500 USD = 80.738.92 baht in Thai account

Fee total 26.76 from the 2,500 USD

Exchange rate used 32.645 per USD

Bangkok Bank TT rate 32.50 per USD if use other means.

[sometimewoodworker]

20 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

 

55 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't understand why Transferwise merits such praise, because to me their fees are not cheap.

Believe it is recommended for US for good reasons - fee is about 1% of what is sent and you receive better than Thai bank exchange rate.  Current check at about 1520 today.

2,500 USD = 80.738.92 baht in Thai account

Fee total 26.76 from the 2,500 USD

Exchange rate used 32.645 per USD

Bangkok Bank TT rate 32.50 per USD if use other means.

 

Possibly it's because the sterling fee is around ½ the dollar fee at 0.62% for the same (£2,000) transfer. One of the few times you have a financial advantage???? using sterling.

 

It is still a good system.

Edited December 22, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Believe it is recommended for US for good reasons - fee is about 1% of what is sent and you receive better than Thai bank exchange rate.  Current check at about 1520 today.

2,500 USD = 80.738.92 baht in Thai account

Fee total 26.76 from the 2,500 USD

Exchange rate used 32.645 per USD

Bangkok Bank TT rate 32.50 per USD if use other means.

If I transfer a lump sum of AUD 30,000, the fee is AUD 30. I.e. 0.1% . Presumably I lose from the cross-rate when Bangkok Bank converts to Thai baht; however, BB is nowhere near as rapacious as Australian banks, so I can accept that.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Lacessit

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If this is going to be the income method why have we gone through the charade of not accepting Embassy Letters or the Embassies not producing them? The same people who lied about their income on the Embassy Letter can easily produce a single 65K transfer each month or use an agent ,

Their hope is, as I see it, many of those affected will switch to agents, and that the embassies were "getting in the way" of the agent-business with their dang letters.

 

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

TransferWise is an inbound variation of that system, there is also an outbound company (I forget the name)

Dee Money is the outgoing one I've heard of.

For sending in both directions, one could also buy bitcoin from one's account in one country, then sell it back into one's account in another country.  But, for incoming, this would not provide a clean "foreign-xfer" record in one's Thai Bank account (similar problem with Transferwise), which may be necessary to "keep it simple" for Thai Immigration.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

Some posters have mentioned a FTT "money-recycling" workaround. Please expand or clarify this point. As a person was has repatriated money from a Thai bank the hurdles seemed almost insurmountable. I had to show that all taxes had been paid and only the bank's head office in Bangkok would only do the transfer. A major headache. 

Dee Money is a company that allows xferring money out of Thailand to bank-accounts in other countries.  One could also use crypto for this (buy from your Thai acct, sell into your foreign-account).  One could also use a Thai bank's MC/Visa Debit card to load a Paypal account in one's home country, which could have ACH Xfer setups to other accounts.

 

But, if sending out money only to send it right back, this is clearly breaking the rules, as the point of showing the xfers is to demonstrate the income.  On the other hand, the rules state "has an income of" - not - "has a net income after all expenses of" - so one could certainly transfer their income here (demonstrating income), then pay bills anywhere out of their Thai acct - such as using a MC/Visa debit card to do so.

 

Some get bent out of shape when this comes up, to spite these methods being as easy to predict as gravity.  Observing what will certainly occur, does not equal causation.  The only thing which will prevent this being widespread, would be the agent-option being reasonably priced, given it is much less trouble.  I am of the opinion that the reason for the letter-issue, was that the letters were cutting into the agent-immigration income stream.

 

9 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

For those hoping TI will accept financial documents to support income I can only hope they are right. It is inviting a bureaucratic nightmare to interpret income forms from different countries. Does one really expect TI to interpret the equivalent of a 1099 R in Japanese? Not going to happen IMHO. Showing 800k or 65k monthly in a Thai bank is the simplest solution. 

I agree that the Primary financial-doc they will want to see for the income-method, is a letter from a Thai bank showing "X-amount was transferred from a foreign source every month for Y-months." 

According to this interview, the "X" will remain unchanged - 65K Baht/mo for retirement, and 40K Baht/mo for family-based. 

Any money earned in Thailand (investment-income, etc) could also be included, as proven by a Thai tax-return.

 

Maybe they will also want to see backup-docs.  I would guess similar to now, at the IO's/supervisor's discretion - but we won't know for sure, until we see the new police-order.

[smedly]

and what if you do 2x transfers a year from outside Thailand totaling 800k baht ?

 

What they are proposing may not cover incomes, it must be yearly transfers divided over 12 months - not monthly transfers

[JLCrab]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

but we won't know for sure, until we see the new police-order.

Hey you're on a roll -- why should not knowing what the new rules actually are for sure stop you?

[Mike Teavee]

15 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Quite easy actually, there a lot of independent transfers of money that bypass the international banking system. Very many Thai people outside Thailand (it has to work the other way I just don't have personal knowledge) give their foreign currency to an agent (I know 3 of them in different Japanese cities) The agreed amount in Baht is then transferred into the Thai account designated, usually within minutes or hours.

 

TransferWise is an inbound variation of that system, there is also an outbound company (I forget the name)

DeeMoney https://www.dee.money/

[mfd101]

18 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Right -- interesting to read the various points and folks taking a stance on the new Police Order even though nobody as yet knows what really is in the new Police Order.

Yes, flapping around like feather dusters in the dark. And already planning how they'll get around it.

[Thaidream]

On 12/23/2018 at 4:22 AM, JLCrab said:

Hey you're on a roll -- why should not knowing what the new rules actually are for sure stop you?

We are all entitled to our opinion .  We even tolerate yours and your snide remarks!

[lopburi3]

 

Please label as such.

 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Please label as such.

In my opinion- your opinion is correct!