Consul General for US Embassy Bangkok Interview

[Thaidream]

37 minutes ago, tropo said:

Then there's the question of how many months of transfers they will need to see. 800k needs to be seasoned for 3 months, so I would expect they would want to see at least a whole year of monthly transfers. That would make it too late for most of us that don't make monthly deposits.

Yes and that would make sense per those who believe agents are being considered when systems are developed.  If an agent can currently obtain a waiver on the money in bank for seasoning; they will also be able to get a waiver on the  income method.  I am not advocating agent use, but I am beginning to start thinking that posters who have discussed this system are correct.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Then you won't maybe be able to get an extension of stay in the future.

If you've managed to put baht 65,000 a month in the bank for the past 12 months, or whatever the requirement becomes, then that would entitle you to a new one year extension ... of course at this point this is speculation regarding the eventual requirements .... so you would be good to go for the next 12 or 13 months even if your funds then dried up and during the next 12 or 13 months your "income" is only what you cadge off friends to keep you with a supply of Mama noodles. That method "proves" nothing about you having a sustainable income, but you could still manage to get an extension for another year.

 

if you are able to genuinely obtain an income affidavit verifying that you are receiving regular payments from government and/or private pensions, that comes with a reasonable assumption that the income will continue during the year for which the new extension is being granted.

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

58 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

If you've managed to put baht 65,000 a month in the bank for the past 12 months, or whatever the requirement becomes, then that would entitle you to a new one year extension ... of course at this point this is speculation regarding the eventual requirements ....

...

That method "proves" nothing about you having a sustainable income, but you could still manage to get an extension for another year.

On the other hand, look at how credit-systems work - they look at your past-performance, to determine if you will be a "good bet" to issue credit.  In a way, this would work the same way. 

 

The key difference, in this case, is that the Thais have no exposure to your being a "bad bet" - given you haven't taken anything from them (no loan/credit), and aren't given any right to handouts, etc.  All they "gave" you was some ink in your passport and an entry in a computer, which means you won't go to IDC for being caught in the country during that next year. 

[MyFriend You]

16 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Whether true or not, you could be asked to sign a statement to the IMM official to the effect that this money has not been faked and, if it has been faked, you have made a false police report in a Thai police station subject to arrest.

back to the para in the Op:  A big issue with Thai Immigration is they don't want to have to review the various types of documents that could be involved and seem to be focusing on evidence of transferring funds into a Thai bank from outside Thailand as the solution.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Yes and that would make sense per those who believe agents are being considered when systems are developed.  If an agent can currently obtain a waiver on the money in bank for seasoning; they will also be able to get a waiver on the  income method.  I am not advocating agent use, but I am beginning to start thinking that posters who have discussed this system are correct.

The difference is, the existing agent-system uses a genuine bank-letter showing 800K at the time of generation - as the immigration-director described in an article, and has been described in many reports here.  That bank-letter goes in the file for the application, providing exactly the cover-story the director used ("Golly, our IOs have no idea these were short term loans" - leaving out the seasoning aspect, of course).

To do something similar for income would require the agent make monthly deposits over time and, ideally, the bank-letter would only show deposits, and not withdrawals of the exact same amount on the same day.  This would be more complicated to administer, but depending on the bank-letter format immigration requires, is still possible.

[DrJack54]

38 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

back to the para in the Op:  A big issue with Thai Immigration is they don't want to have to review the various types of documents that could be involved and seem to be focusing on evidence of transferring funds into a Thai bank from outside Thailand as the solution.

Yes true and not capable. So here is a plan. Let's say I want "wash" million baht every month into an account in your name. I transfer to your ac via something like transfer wise. Then you take a cut. Withdraw funds and deposit into my (not really) bank ac. 

I'm not suggesting the above. I'm a 100% legal expat living in Los obeying laws. Point is monthly income method is a crock.

[Olmate]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yes true and not capable. So here is a plan. Let's say I want "wash" million baht every month into an account in your name. I transfer to your ac via something like transfer wise. Then you take a cut. Withdraw funds and deposit into my (not really) bank ac. 

I'm not suggesting the above. I'm a 100% legal expat living in Los obeying laws. Point is monthly income method is a crock.

Get what your pointing to but what’s that got to do with retirees seeking extensions, maybe were all secretly money laundering?

[farangx]

28 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Get what your pointing to but what’s that got to do with retirees seeking extensions, maybe were all secretly money laundering?

Seasoning is a nice word to use.  Actually that 800K belonging to somebody else gets soaked in a retiree's Thai bank account.  At the end of that 3 months, the bahts are taken out to dry, pressed, stacked and delivered to another retiree's Thai bank account for re-soaking.  No one really knows how many times the bahts were soaked, but the ink is still good.

 

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

they look at your past-performance, to determine if you will be a "good bet" to issue credit.  In a way, this would work the same way. 

But they wouldn't give you credit simply based on money having been deposited in a bank recently. They would want some information about  where the money was coming from ... your sources of income, whether current employment or pension income. Not sure how closely they investigate what you say about your income. The two US based credit cards I have were obtained when I was working. Since then I guess they haven't really checked. Actually the credit limits on both cards are ridiculously high, although I haven't been tempted to exploit that.

 

[JLCrab]

9 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

if you are able to genuinely obtain an income affidavit verifying that you are receiving regular payments from government and/or private pensions,

According to the US Consul General in the OP, Thai IMM does not want to get involved in reviewing source documents as that may prove a logistical nightmare in the IMM offices.

 

And to all the suggesting as to how this is not really income or there are 'myriad' ways to fudge the monthly deposits, maybe wait to sees what the rules actually are should they become available next JAN.

Edited December 21, 2018 by JLCrab

[JLCrab]

7 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

23 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Whether true or not, you could be asked to sign a statement to the IMM official to the effect that this money has not been faked and, if it has been faked, you have made a false police report in a Thai police station subject to arrest.

back to the para in the Op:  A big issue with Thai Immigration is they don't want to have to review the various types of documents that could be involved and seem to be focusing on evidence of transferring funds into a Thai bank from outside Thailand as the solution.

That would however be THEIR document.

[Mike Teavee]

8 hours ago, farangx said:

Seasoning is a nice word to use.  Actually that 800K belonging to somebody else gets soaked in a retiree's Thai bank account.  At the end of that 3 months, the bahts are taken out to dry, pressed, stacked and delivered to another retiree's Thai bank account for re-soaking.  No one really knows how many times the bahts were soaked, but the ink is still good.

 

Meanwhile, in the real world... Some people put 800k in the Bank from their hard earned earnings & suck it up.

 

From reading this thread, I can honestly see that every other Ex-Pat in Thailand is ex-MI6, SAS, CIA, Delta Force, Navy Seal or (apparently) money launderer who's up to some shenanigans or other. 

 

Some of us just worked hard for 35+ years & now want to reap the benefits from that, 1 of which is we can afford to have sub-£20k in the Bank... Apologies if I'm too stupid (usual argument from people who don't want to put 800K in the bank) in doing that.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[mlmcleod]

When I went to the Thai Embassy in Washington DC, I proved my income by submitting my Social Security letter and a small pension letter from Fidelity.  It was a very easy process. Why would anyone want to transfer $25,000 to a Thai Bank that can never be touched?

 

Is it too much to ask that someone in Immigration can speak and read English to process the same documents at immigration?  After all, doesn't every Thai have 12 years of English in school?

 

Just one English proficient immigration officer at each Immigration office is not too much to ask!

 

I have free banking in the USA and I get free cash withdrawals no matter what bank I use.  There is no such thing as free banking in Thailand.  The Thai immigration law dos not require that we use Thai banks!  So how can immigration require that we show transfer of funds to Thai banks?

 

This just appears to be a windfall for Thai banks that serves no purpose to prove income.

Edited December 22, 2018 by mlmcleod
spelling

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

Is it too much to ask that someone in Immigration can speak and read English to process the same documents at immigration?

Yes -- the catch is that the Thai Embassy in WashDC primarily if not near exclusively looks at documents originating in the US the form and substance of which they have become familiar. What you are suggesting is that IMM should not only look at source documents originating on the US, but from Estonia, Burkina Faso, and Paraguay, etc.

[Olmate]

So what’s the problem with dealing with documents they can understand and use a differing system for those they cannot. Countries are dealt with differently, in say VE /VOA categories , why not retirement?

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So what’s the problem with dealing with documents they can understand and use a differing system for those they cannot. Countries are dealt with differently, in say VE /VOA categories , why not retirement?

Agree. Thai Immigration has always operated on Thai and English. If  there are documents in another language- an applicant is informed to get it translated to Thai/English.  

 

As an aside- many years ago Thai Imm asked me for proof of income and I presented my pension letter and  US bank statement  along with the Embassy Letter- They had no problem not only reading my proof but no problem in understanding the information.  They may not want the extra work Burt they decided they didn't want the Embassy Letter any longer.  I am sure an extra minute looking at a few  extra pieces of paper in English is not an overwhelming task.

 

 

[JLCrab]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

16 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So what’s the problem with dealing with documents they can understand and use a differing system for those they cannot. Countries are dealt with differently, in say VE /VOA categories , why not retirement?

Agree. Thai Immigration has always operated on Thai and English. If  there are documents in another language- an applicant is informed to get it translated to Thai/English.  

That's a really good idea. One of you guys should go to the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu and look for this:

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That's a really good idea. One of you guys should go to the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu and look for this:

Thank You for your encouragement.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That's a really good idea. One of you guys should go to the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu and look for this:

Not me,I’ll get my agent to do the running around....

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That's a really good idea. One of you guys should go to the IMM HQ on Suan Phlu and look for this:

Not me,I’ll get my agent to do the running around....

Why would your agent go to the IMM HQ to deposit a suggestion as to why you would not need an agent?

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post flaming a member has been removed.

[Pattaya46]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Agree. Thai Immigration has always operated on Thai and English. If  there are documents in another language- an applicant is informed to get it translated to Thai/English.

The main problem is not the language, but the complexity of many people income.

Because you are in a very simple situation where you just have a pension to prove, you forget that it's far to be the same for many people.

Not everyone on "retirement Extension" is retired! Many have revenues from several sources, from different kinds of investments, and sometimes from several countries. These guys need an accountant to make their Taxes Declaration and you would want Immigration officers to be able to understand all these documents ! No way 

Embassy Letter was an easy solution for everyone, but USA & UK embassies are apparently working at make it disappear... 

Thai Immigration is forced to find another easy solution, and it will not be by allowing foreign accounting documents... (IMHO)

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Pattaya46

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

... What's your excuse for not doing so?

You're missing the point Mike-  if you desire to place  a large amount of money in a Thai bank- that is your choice.  However, there is an income provision in the Police Order and some of us get along quite nicely by using our US Debit Card to take out any amount  needed each month. We don't need to tie up our money in a Thai bank.  This is easily proved by showing a few pension documents and some ATM cards- if we need to go further we can show the US bank statement which clearly shows the  source of the income and where it was debited. Easy to produce and easy to read.

 

I have a 40 year  relationship with my US bank. I trust them implicitly.  Over the years I have had many Thai bank accounts and I have lost  money on exchange rates; put up with surly bank clerks and even worse with  Managers who clearly did not know how to run a bank. I , personally do not like Thai banking. They refuse to take responsibility for errors and loss of funds and  their level of bureaucracy is absurd.  It takes a Vice President to make a decision that a clerk should be making.

Other people have had good results- I have not.

 

By the way- I don't need to provide an excuse to anyone why I do not want to take 800K from my Us account and place it in Thailand.  

As far as  understanding that English isn't the only spoken language- I am well aware of that. If the Thais asked for everything in Thai- I would be happy to accommodate them by paying for a translation.

 

It should also be noted that  transferring 65K each month  is burdensome to me and  means a call to my bank each month for security codes. Why should anyone need to do this when they can get the same amount of money from a Thai aTM with a few strokes of the machine and also have a receipt that shows the debit and  absolute proof it originated from abroad.

 

In the end, I will comply with what they want but until they decide- i will do what is best for me.

 

 

 

[Olmate]

23 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Why would your agent go to the IMM HQ to deposit a suggestion as to why you would not need an agent?

Just trying to cover all bases, think outside the square, get a second  opinion, that type of thing. And if he won,t do it find one that will!

[Thaidream]

24 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

e the same for many people.

Not everyone on "retirement Extension" is retired! Many have revenues from several sources, from different kinds of investments, and sometimes from several countries. These guys need an accountant to make their Taxes Declaration and you would want Immigration officers to be able to understand all these documents ! No way 

Embassy Letter was an easy solution for everyone, but USA & UK embassies are apparently working at make it disappear... 

Thai Immigration is forced to find another easy solution, and it will not be by allowing foreign accounting documents... (IMHO)

If I was in this situation- I would have my accountant prepare a letter to Thai Immigration summarizing source of income and monthly/yearly amounts.  All done one 1-2 pages.  Easy to understand-  your either  have 65K per month as income or you don't

 

My irritation centers on the  fact that Thai imm won't accept an income letter from an Embassy which summarized everything on 1 page and was signed under  penalty of perjury but may accept  a transfer of 65K into a Thai Bank account each month which proves nothing about income.  It is less secure from fraud than the Embassy Letter .  In addition, why does it have to be a bank transfer from abroad?  Many people have investments in Thailand and get legal income.  If Thai Imm makes proving 65K only by foreign bank transfer- many people will never  invest in Thailand.   

 

[Mike Teavee]

25 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You're missing the point Mike-  if you desire to place  a large amount of money in a Thai bank- that is your choice.  However, there is an income provision in the Police Order and some of us get along quite nicely by using our US Debit Card to take out any amount  needed each month. We don't need to tie up our money in a Thai bank.  This is easily proved by showing a few pension documents and some ATM cards- if we need to go further we can show the US bank statement which clearly shows the  source of the income and where it was debited. Easy to produce and easy to read.

 

I have a 40 year  relationship with my US bank. I trust them implicitly.  Over the years I have had many Thai bank accounts and I have lost  money on exchange rates; put up with surly bank clerks and even worse with  Managers who clearly did not know how to run a bank. I , personally do not like Thai banking. They refuse to take responsibility for errors and loss of funds and  their level of bureaucracy is absurd.  It takes a Vice President to make a decision that a clerk should be making.

Other people have had good results- I have not.

 

By the way- I don't need to provide an excuse to anyone why I do not want to take 800K from my Us account and place it in Thailand.  

As far as  understanding that English isn't the only spoken language- I am well aware of that. If the Thais asked for everything in Thai- I would be happy to accommodate them by paying for a translation.

 

It should also be noted that  transferring 65K each month  is burdensome to me and  means a call to my bank each month for security codes. Why should anyone need to do this when they can get the same amount of money from a Thai aTM with a few strokes of the machine and also have a receipt that shows the debit and  absolute proof it originated from abroad.

 

In the end, I will comply with what they want but until they decide- i will do what is best for me.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not missing the point, $25,000 USD is a small price to pay to be able to live where you want to, come live in Singapore if you can pony up 100 times that, if I wanted to live in the US I'd need to come up with 20 times that (and have to live in a sh1tty state).

 

Again... it's not all about the US & US Pension Statements, English Language, American ATM receipts... Look at the bigger picture and try to see it from Thailand Immigration side, US is no where near the largest number of Non-O Extensions that they have to deal with so why should they treat the US (Or the UK for that matter ) any different than any other country? What's really interesting is it's the big 3 English Language countries (UK, US & Aus) who have stopped providing Letters of Income.

 

Correct, absolutely no business of mine why you don't want to put 800K in a Thai Bank, but I object to being spoken of as a fool because i choose to do so, I am not criticizing anybody that chooses differently just asking that my choice be respected & not ridiculed.

 

Transferring money every month is a few clicks on your mobile - Download the Transferwise App & your US mobile banking app & it takes seconds to do.

 

Oh & I've worked in (IT) Banking for 30+ years, I have no idea how I still trust any of them with any of my money!!!

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

ransferring money every month is a few clicks on your mobile - Download the Transferwise App & your US mobile banking app & it takes seconds to do.

No one should be calling you a fool for doing what you want and I don't want anyone calling me a fool for how I want to proceed.

 

I have no background in IT and I have no smart phone or aps = To transfer money I have to call the US and get a security code from  my bank and then proceed.  Not having a smart phone is my choice.   As far as Transfer wise- unless one has Bangkok Bank- the transfer is shown as  a local transfer.  Yes, I know one can print out all the  other info to prove foreign transfer. Will Thai Imm accept these since they don't want to  allegedly look at pension information.

 

As far as understanding how  the World works- I have  lived abroad for almost 50 years- worked in many other countries and know Thailand better than most. Thai Immigration works in Thai and English- they do have a few officers that are fluent in Mandarin.  They often do ask other nationalities to get their documents translated to Thai.  I have no expectation that anyone in Thailand can speak or should speak English. That is why I can converse in Thai and often that gives me an edge when dealing with Thai people and it also helps me understand what they really want.

 

My issue with transferring money has nothing to do with the IT portion of it.  While I may have been born in an era when there were no cell phones; computers and color TV, I fully support and accept technology but I also do not like the invasion of my privacy that technology allows  governments to use against their people but that is another issue.

 

As i said- I do not like Thai banks- I could give you many detailed reasons - both personal and professional- I probably over the years have had 10 accounts in various banks  so I know how they operate.  I have also transferred  large amounts for purchases to  Thai accounts. Always went through. I have also lost $21000 during the Thai financial meltdown when I had to repatriate money.

 

While you are satisfied placing 800K in a Thai bank- some of us are not.  Some of us want to continue the income method- and having to transfer each month- makes no sense to me- when I can withdraw the  65K each month from a Thai ATM. The ATM slip shows the last 4 digits of my  debit card. My bank account in the Us shows the  income direct deposited each month and the amount and it even shows the exact ATM location in Thailand where it was debited.  This is the kind of technology that  I like- and guess what- it shows I  actually have an income of more than 65K each month- which is actually what Thai Imm appeared to want us to prove .

 

Having said all this- that is my stance. It has nothing to do with people who want to deposit their hard earned money in a Thai bank. That is yours and their choice. It probably is the easiest way if one has the money and I may end up doing it- but not because I want to do it- only because I am forced to do it.

[JLCrab]

Well it seems from the interview the new IMM big cheese Surachate is going to put through a new Police Order without checking in with the ThaiVisa hoi polloi first.

 

The nerve of that guy!

Edited December 22, 2018 by JLCrab

[ThaiBob]

Some posters have mentioned a FTT "money-recycling" workaround. Please expand or clarify this point. As a person was has repatriated money from a Thai bank the hurdles seemed almost insurmountable. I had to show that all taxes had been paid and only the bank's head office in Bangkok would only do the transfer. A major headache. 

 

For those hoping TI will accept financial documents to support income I can only hope they are right. It is inviting a bureaucratic nightmare to interpret income forms from different countries. Does one really expect TI to interpret the equivalent of a 1099 R in Japanese? Not going to happen IMHO. Showing 800k or 65k monthly in a Thai bank is the simplest solution. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by ThaiBob

[onera1961]

22 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

new Police Order without checking in with the ThaiVisa hoi polloi first.

And their debates, arguments, name calling. What a mess when people are forced to bring money into Thailand in a certain away. Glad they don't verify the money is earned by illegal means like prostitution, scamming, drug and arms trafficking, employing child labor, etc. For an E5 visa for the US, you will be asked to prove the money is not obtained by illegal means. Of course agents (they call it lawyers or law farms in the US), can do it no question asked. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by onera1961