Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll

[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You are incorrect. I know enough to know that it certainly is legally possible for there to be a second Brexit referendum. So stop with the idiotic digs about nationality. It is not ever legally possible to have a redo U.S. presidential election. That's why Bush vs. Gore was decided in the supreme court. Don't wave around your special knowledge that actually isn't special and isn't true. You can't show me one bit of evidence that it isn't legally possible to redo a Brexit vote because it doesn't exist. It is a political decision and I fully support that it be made. 

Why are you having a(n other) hissy-fit simply because I tried to answer your question & did so respectfully and within the rules?

Edited January 7, 2019 by evadgib

[Moonlover]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

31 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

You mean, of course Northern Ireland. And therein lies the real ball crushing dilemma. There will never be satisfactory Brexit solution that satisfies the requirements of the 'border issue'.

 

The people of N. I. voted 'remain' for a good reason. Neither they, nor the south can accept a hard border. End of Brexit IMO.

 

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I saw a recent article that suggested the border isn't really our problem but that of the EU ie they want it, they fund it & have it on their side.

A border, by its very definition, cannot be a unilateral problem.

 

For sure the EU are very concerned about it because it will become a border between an EU country and a none EU and should be subject border controls.

 

But it is also a border between two peoples who are very adamant it remains an open, invisible one. That criteria was the central plank of the 'Good Friday Agreement' that ended 'The Troubles'. 

 

May is between a rock and a hard place on this one and I'm sure the EU, who want Britain to remain in the EU. will be playing to the hilt. And good on them too.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Moonlover

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I smell the fear of the will of the people being armed with much better information revealed in a new referendum,  so all you've got are insults. 

The only genuinely 'better information' is that the agreed deal between May and the eu.  All the rest is conjecture and opinion.

 

Which is why I would have no problem with another referendum as long as the options are:-

 

1) Accept May's deal (as she insists this is a genuine brexit deal.... ????)

2) Reject May's deal and respect the original referendum result to actually brexit.

[BobBKK]

Everything changed May so let us have a vote to finalize Camerons f* up

 

If Labour had anywhere near a decent team they would annihilate the Tories and May must say "thank you God' every morning.

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The only genuinely 'better information' is that the agreed deal between May and the eu.  All the rest is conjecture and opinion.

 

Which is why I would have no problem with another referendum as long as the options are:-

 

1) Accept May's deal (as she insists this is a genuine brexit deal.... ????)

2) Reject May's deal and respect the original referendum result to actually brexit.

And why would you have a problem with “remain” as another option on the ballot paper? If the people really only want to chose between May’s deal and no deal (as you seem to suggest) they could still do that. 

[keemapoot]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The only genuinely 'better information' is that the agreed deal between May and the eu.  All the rest is conjecture and opinion.

 

Which is why I would have no problem with another referendum as long as the options are:-

 

1) Accept May's deal (as she insists this is a genuine brexit deal.... ????)

2) Reject May's deal and respect the original referendum result to actually brexit.

So, the choice is only 1. May's flawed brexit deal or, 2. Hard brexit resulting in WTO tariffs and seeing British goods hammered on the world market, and going through the near impossible task of negotiating 60 or more trade agreements from a position of weakness.

 

Remaining is not conjecture. It has been implemented in practice over years and its effects quantified. 

[yogi100]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For the Brits who really want to stay in the EU I wish they will get what they want. I am sure the UK is a lot better off within the EU.

 

But for all the Brexiters and especially the hard Brexiters I hope they crash and burn. You really deserve what you will get. Just yesterday I read an articles that many Tories want Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg or David Davis as their PM. How deluded must these voters be to even dream about that those incompetent morons will be able to make things better? They talk a lot about unicorns. And it seems lots of people still believe them. Unbelievable - except it really happens.

 

I am sure lots of people in the EU dream about how wonderful life could be without the UK.

 

You (not you personally) never hear the side the 17.4 million Mr and Mrs Bloggses who voted to leave because none of us get asked about it. Just the media and politicians are consulted and invited to give their opinions..

 

The main reason we wanted out was because of immigration.

 

It's our people who get killed in bombings.

It's our children who are the victims of rape gangs.

It's us who lose our jobs when our country gets flooded by imported scab labour.

It's our people who go to the back of the queue for housing and why the homeless people sleeping on our streets are nearly always members of the British working class.

It's us who have to wait for hospital treatment that most of us have spent years paying for.

It's our children who get held back in the public educational system.

 

Merkel announcing in 2015 that we would be expected to take in some of her million Muslim immigrants was the last straw.

 

None of this affects the liberal elite, the politicians nor the radio and TV presenters and the rest of the people in the media.

 

I for one would vote to leave again because of the above reasons and if the remainers won the next referendum millions of us would be demanding a third one and quite rightly so. 

 

The govt said that the referendum would be final and binding cos they thought they'd win and then they went and put arch remainer Mrs May in charge to see that our leaving was as difficult and as hampered as it possibly could have been in the hope that we'll throw in the towel and agree to remain in the EU.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Now that the public knows the actual details of the deal or no deal that are actually possible, a new vote can be based on much better information. Again … what are Brexiters afraid of? The truth hurts. The actual options are total crapola. It should be OK to change your mind. 

Nonsense. All we know is that May is a terrible negotiator, and that the EU are a vengeful organization that like a Mafia, try and punish you when you want to leave to deter others from doing the same.

 

We won't know for several years the full effects of a No Deal Brexit. The people voted to leave, they didn't vote for a deal so for the sake of democracy the vote must be respected. If there is to be a second referendum it must be after the decision of the first referendum has been implemented, not before. Not implementing the results of the largest democratic vote in UK history would be incredibly damaging for Democracy and the anger it would generate may well result in civil unrest. You certainly wouldn't get the Mai Pen Rai attitude that you see in Thailand when Democracy is usurped. 

 

Let's say Remain won the second referendum. Why should that vote be respected when the first wasn't? We keep voting until Remain win and then we stop voting? Is that how it works?

 

We voted. Leave won. So leave.

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll/flame posts directed at the news admin have been removed, you can watch you mail box for your suspension 

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And why would you have a problem with “remain” as another option on the ballot paper? If the people really only want to chose between May’s deal and no deal (as you seem to suggest) they could still do that. 

So Leave voters get split up between 2 different options while Remainers all Vote for a single option of Remain. You might end up with 45% Remain, 15% May's deal and 40% No Deal. So Remain wins despite Leave having 55% of the vote? Sounds like good old Remainer democratic principles in force????.

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And why would you have a problem with “remain” as another option on the ballot paper? If the people really only want to chose between May’s deal and no deal (as you seem to suggest) they could still do that. 

Because, as FREQUENTLY pointed out, we have already had a referendum on whether to remain or leave.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

You (not you personally) never hear the side the 17.4 million Mr and Mrs Bloggses who voted to leave because none of us get asked about it. Just the media and politicians are consulted and invited to give their opinions..

 

The main reason we wanted out was because of immigration.

 

It's our people who get killed in bombings.

It's our children who are the victims of rape gangs.

It's us who lose our jobs when our country gets flooded by imported scab labour.

It's our people who go to the back of the queue for housing and why the homeless people sleeping on our streets are nearly always members of the British working class.

It's us who have to wait for hospital treatment that most of us have spent years paying for.

It's our children who get held back in the public educational system.

 

Merkel announcing in 2015 that we would be expected to take in some of her million Muslim immigrants was the last straw.

 

None of this affects the liberal elite, the politicians nor the radio and TV presenters and the rest of the people in the media.

 

I for one would vote to leave again because of the above reasons and if the remainers won the next referendum millions of us would be demanding a third one and quite rightly so. 

 

The govt said that the referendum would be final and binding cos they thought they'd win and then they went and put arch remainer Mrs May in charge to see that our leaving was as difficult and as hampered as it possibly could have been in the hope that we'll throw in the towel and agree to remain in the EU.

You can expect "incoming" for that! ????

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So Leave voters get split up between 2 different options while Remainers all Vote for a single option of Remain. You might end up with 45% Remain, 15% May's deal and 40% No Deal. So Remain wins despite Leave having 55% of the vote? Sounds like good old Remainer democratic principles in force????.

Unlikely. Talk is of a straight vote, May's deal or remain. Only a madman would want a no deal Brexit.

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Indeed you are wrong - YouGov is an entirely independent organisation. It is YouGov that determine the representative sample - its what they do.

 

Most people would vote to remain now as they hadn't the first idea what carnage would, and will, follow the leave vote. Boris as their leader says it all !

 

 

How do you know they would vote Remain? Polls said they would vote Remain the first time and they voted Leave.

 

That's democracy, it's a fundamental principle that the loser has to accept the vote. Not demand another one until they get the result they want and then stop voting. 

[Spidey]

Just now, JonnyF said:

How do you know they would vote Remain? Polls said they would vote Remain the first time and they voted Leave.

 

That's democracy, it's a fundamental principle that the loser has to accept the vote. Not demand another one until they get the result they want and then stop voting. 

Issue is that we didn't know what we were voting on first time around, It's only now that people have a reasonable knowledge of what Brexit really entails. Someone likened it to a game of tennis. In the first set one of the players was blindfolded.

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

You (not you personally) never hear the side the 17.4 million Mr and Mrs Bloggses who voted to leave because none of us get asked about it. Just the media and politicians are consulted and invited to give their opinions..

 

The main reason we wanted out was because of immigration.

 

It's our people who get killed in bombings.

It's our children who are the victims of rape gangs.

It's us who lose our jobs when our country gets flooded by imported scab labour.

It's our people who go to the back of the queue for housing and why the homeless people sleeping on our streets are nearly always members of the British working class.

It's us who have to wait for hospital treatment that most of us have spent years paying for.

It's our children who get held back in the public educational system.

 

Merkel announcing in 2015 that we would be expected to take in some of her million Muslim immigrants was the last straw.

 

None of this affects the liberal elite, the politicians nor the radio and TV presenters and the rest of the people in the media.

 

I for one would vote to leave again because of the above reasons and if the remainers won the next referendum millions of us would be demanding a third one and quite rightly so. 

 

The govt said that the referendum would be final and binding cos they thought they'd win and then they went and put arch remainer Mrs May in charge to see that our leaving was as difficult and as hampered as it possibly could have been in the hope that we'll throw in the towel and agree to remain in the EU.

So many misunderstandings. I'm too old to explain everything. Just abstain.

[yogi100]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The polls that matter are those telling Labour that if they don’t back a referendum on on the deal (including an option Remain), they’ll be annihilated at the election Corbyn is so eager for.

 

It’s simple arrhythmic.

 

No political party is representing the millions who voted Remain.

 

Polls are consistently returning evidence that those millions are now more than half the voting electorate.

 

But don’t put it past Corbyn to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

 

No political party is representing the millions who voted Remain.

 

CMD was a remainer as was and still is Theresa May and they are both leading figures in the Conservative Party so much so in fact that they both led the party and both have been successive Prime Ministers.

 

in May and June of 2016 the polls were "consistently returning evidence" that the British people would vote to remain in the EU. So much for polls. They were also saying Mrs Clinton would beat Mr Trump and be the next occupant of the White House.

 

What party apart from UKIP that does not even have a single MP represents the leave side.

[Grouse]

Parliament should decide and then hold a referendum to ratify the decision or otherwise.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Unlikely. Talk is of a straight vote, May's deal or remain. Only a madman would want a no deal Brexit.

May's deal is terrible. We already voted to Leave so there is no need to have a second vote. Her deal should be rejected by parliament and then the referendum result can be implemented. No need for another vote just because she is so incompetent, especially when a clean Brexit is on the table and it costs us nothing.

 

Why would WTO rules be so terrible? That's how we already deal with most countries outside Europe already. The EU will sign a deal with us in a couple of years anyway once they stop sulking and realize how big their trade surplus is with us. I reckon you've been drinking the Project Fear cool aid. Have some confidence in the country (assuming you are from the UK).

 

We are effectively their customer. They'd be mad not to make a trade deal with us once we've left, the only reason they won't do it now is that are trying to stop us leaving. 

[Justin Side]

2 hours ago, NE1 said:

They already had it.

They did?

When did they have a vote on the current only deal on the table?

[Justin Side]

6 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Cameron made the biggest political balls up in my lifetime by throwing the decision over to racists. One slogan on a bus (a lie) and they all fell for it.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that observation.

[keemapoot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

May's deal is terrible. We already voted to Leave so there is no need to have a second vote. Her deal should be rejected by parliament and then the referendum result can be implemented. No need for another vote just because she is so incompetent, especially when a clean Brexit is on the table and it costs us nothing.

 

Why would WTO rules be so terrible? That's how we already deal with most countries outside Europe already. The EU will sign a deal with us in a couple of years anyway once they stop sulking and realize how big their trade surplus is with us. I reckon you've been drinking the Project Fear cool aid. Have some confidence in the country (assuming you are from the UK).

 

We are effectively their customer. They'd be mad not to make a trade deal with us once we've left, the only reason they won't do it now is that are trying to stop us leaving. 

Yeah, you are their customer, but a smaller and weaker customer relatively speaking. In fact, you are a small and weak customer everywhere in the world without a united Europe as a trading bloc. Oh, sure, by itself, the UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world, but it's a fraction of the size of US and China, and almost half the size of Japan. So, go ahead and negotiate trade deals from a position of relative weakness and see how strong the UK economy is then.

[Stupooey]

IF (and it's a big if) the UK leaves the EU on 29/3, then:

- about 900,000 who voted for Brexit will no longer be alive

- nobody under the age of 20 3/4 will have been given the opportunity to help determine the long-term future of their country

 

Call this democracy? More like necrocracy to me...

[yogi100]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So many misunderstandings. I'm too old to explain everything. Just abstain.

 

Just explain how our being in the EU benefited the working people of Britain. You are not too old you just can't explain or you can't think of what to say cos it's all been said before. 

 

While you're at it explain why after the flood gates were opened in 2003 to Eastern European workers there are now well over 8.5 million economically inactive people of working age in the UK according to the Office of National Statistics. And it's been constantly on the rise since they opened the flood gates.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

Yeah, you are their customer, but a smaller and weaker customer relatively speaking. In fact, you are a small and weak customer everywhere in the world without a united Europe as a trading bloc. Oh, sure, by itself, the UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world, but it's a fraction of the size of US and China, and almost half the size of Japan. So, go ahead and negotiate trade deals from a position of relative weakness and see how strong the UK economy is then.

5th largest economy in the World, which speaks for itself. The EU has kept a lid on the individual member states so far but wait until we leave with no deal and match any tariffs they impose on us. When we start buying Japanese cars instead of German ones. Start buying Australian and South African wine instead of French. Start taking holidays in non EU countries instead of Spain and Greece. Stop them fishing in our waters. We'll see how quiet those countries/industries stay then when they start to suffer due to the EU shooting itself in the foot by trying to punish us.

 

Why would they not offer us Canada Plus after we leave? They already have, it's only May's incompetence (or maybe sabotage) that stopped it. She seems to think by offering us a bad deal we'll lose our nerve and stay in. So let's leave without a deal, keep the 39 billion to ease the short term problems and negotiate a trade deal after we've left. Once they (and more importantly the member states) realize that EU spite is costing both sides, reality will kick in and we can stop messing about and negotiate a proper deal.

 

  

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

IF (and it's a big if) the UK leaves the EU on 29/3, then:

- about 900,000 who voted for Brexit will no longer be alive

- nobody under the age of 20 3/4 will have been given the opportunity to help determine the long-term future of their country

 

Call this democracy? More like necrocracy to me...

What if you only lose by 500,000 next time instead of a million? Wait another 3 years and do it again? Until remain win by 100,000 and then we stop voting?

 

What bizarre logic.

 

We had the vote in 2016. Leave won. Get over it. 

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

IF (and it's a big if) the UK leaves the EU on 29/3, then:

- about 900,000 who voted for Brexit will no longer be alive

- nobody under the age of 20 3/4 will have been given the opportunity to help determine the long-term future of their country

 

Call this democracy? More like necrocracy to me...

How about any that fell foul of the '15 year' guff by having the audacity to live abroad?

[evadgib]

 

[Moonlover]

48 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Because, as FREQUENTLY pointed out, we have already had a referendum on whether to remain or leave.

No that's not right. We've already had 2 referendums on EU membership. 1976 and 2016. The precedent has already been set for re-runs.

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Just explain how our being in the EU benefited the working people of Britain. You are not too old you just can't explain or you can't think of what to say cos it's all been said before. 

 

While you're at it explain why after the flood gates were opened in 2003 to Eastern European workers there are now well over 8.5 million economically inactive people of working age in the UK according to the Office of National Statistics. And it's been constantly on the rise since they opened the flood gates.

It wasn't the EU that opened the flood gates it was our own government. Nobody else did so.

 

EU immigrants are now leaving in droves to be replaced with Africans and South Asians

 

We CHOOSE not to control ourborders

 

We have a minimum wage but don't enforce it

 

Our unemployment rate is <5% is it not? Essentially full employment with massive skill shortages. If you need a job, gain a skill.

 

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

 

Or lookelsewhere! Right now you can work anywhere in the EU

 

Cameron committed the CONs but not parliament.

 

Ebough?

Edited January 7, 2019 by Grouse