Trump demands U.S. border wall, sidesteps declaring emergency

[bristolboy]

People who bet on how many lies Trump would tell during his Oval Office address won more than $270,000

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-lies-during-oval-office-speech-earn-gamblers-270000-2019-1

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed along with inflammatory remarks.

 

[Trouble]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The vast majority of Americans DO NOT support the wall, which is never going to get built. Only a percent of his base of devotees want the wall, and that is only due to constant brainwashing.

 

Roger stone was frustrated that Trump kept on forgetting to talk about immigration at the beginning of the campaign. He said Trump is a builder. He will remember to say build a wall. Hence the birth of the slogan and the fear mongering. The only terrorist apprehended at the border in the past 20 years was coming from Canada. All terrorists use the sea or come by air. None come by land. None. One in the past 20 years was caught. It is all a total ruse. Not only is illegal immigration way, way down, but if you look at crime statistics in the US, nine times more homicide is committed by American citizens, than by legal immigrants. And three times more homicide, by Americans, than by illegal immigrants. If Trump wants to solve the crime problem in the US, he has to get his own people in his administration and his team, to stop committing crime, then he has to stop committing crime, and then he can work on reforming his base, and then other Americans.

You argument is the same stuff that Democrats spout. First off as we can see from the last election, polls are not always correct and in fact can be way off the mark. Trump stated his case for border security. The Wall, weather the Dems like it or not, is not an end in itself but part of a system of security systems to stop illegal immigration from the southern border. There are any number of clips on past speeches by both Pelosi and Schumer supporting physical barriers on the border. Whether or not the numbers are down is not the point. What is a fact is that literally thousands try to make the crossing each week. Trumps stated the statistics for illegals committing crimes. Those figures are not made up. The cost to support the "good" illegals is high. Health care, education, etc being at the top. The new California governor is proposing health coverage for 138,000 illegal youths at a cost of hundreds of millions.  Who pays for that? The American taxpayer. Meanwhile streets of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Redding are littered with homeless. Might be nice to take care of them first. Like it or not the massive influx of legal and illegal immigration to the US has changed the US forever. In Los Angeles for over half the population English is not the first language. The amount of immigration has created a fragmented population with no common interests. There is no more community but a hodgepodge of ethnic neighborhoods none having much in common with the other.  Like it or not uncontrolled immigration has forever changed the landscape of America as it has done in Belgium and some other European countries. Like it or not the latino immigrant has nothing in common with the Korean immigrant who has nothing in common with the Chinese immigrant who has nothing in common with the native black,anglo, and latino population. It's a fact of life and only people in dreamland see it as being something other than that.  The problem is not immigration itself but too many too fast.  No assimilation takes place now because the anglos and even blacks have been forced to leave their former neighborhoods. That's the reality. Place on top of this the fact that like it or not there are a lot of bad people out there who have entered the country, illegally. Why would anyone argue against border security.  If Nancy and Chuck have a better idea how to stop people entering the country illegally, let them put it on table. Their response to Trumps address was pathetic in view of the fact that prior to Trumps election they supported stronger border security to include fencing.  Statistics seem to bear out that there is a significant amount of criminal illegal aliens in jails and prisons. Whether that is 1 % or 30 % of the prison population, it is more than the American public should have tolerate.  One last thing.  I grew up in Los Angeles where we never locked a car door, where the backdoor to the house was often left unlocked. I don't blame the fact that one cannot do that today on immigrants but when a community is altered too fast, it doesn't give people a change to assimilate and achieve the American Dream, it creates ghettos of poor people who do not assimilate and do not get ahead for all sorts of reasons, and which require tax dollars to support. Sorry but that is the reality.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Trouble said:

You argument is the same stuff that Democrats spout. First off as we can see from the last election, polls are not always correct and in fact can be way off the mark. Trump stated his case for border security. The Wall, weather the Dems like it or not, is not an end in itself but part of a system of security systems to stop illegal immigration from the southern border. There are any number of clips on past speeches by both Pelosi and Schumer supporting physical barriers on the border. Whether or not the numbers are down is not the point. What is a fact is that literally thousands try to make the crossing each week. Trumps stated the statistics for illegals committing crimes. Those figures are not made up. The cost to support the "good" illegals is high. Health care, education, etc being at the top. The new California governor is proposing health coverage for 138,000 illegal youths at a cost of hundreds of millions.  Who pays for that? The American taxpayer. Meanwhile streets of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Redding are littered with homeless. Might be nice to take care of them first. Like it or not the massive influx of legal and illegal immigration to the US has changed the US forever. In Los Angeles for over half the population English is not the first language. The amount of immigration has created a fragmented population with no common interests. There is no more community but a hodgepodge of ethnic neighborhoods none having much in common with the other.  Like it or not uncontrolled immigration has forever changed the landscape of America as it has done in Belgium and some other European countries. Like it or not the latino immigrant has nothing in common with the Korean immigrant who has nothing in common with the Chinese immigrant who has nothing in common with the native black,anglo, and latino population. It's a fact of life and only people in dreamland see it as being something other than that.  The problem is not immigration itself but too many too fast.  No assimilation takes place now because the anglos and even blacks have been forced to leave their former neighborhoods. That's the reality. Place on top of this the fact that like it or not there are a lot of bad people out there who have entered the country, illegally. Why would anyone argue against border security.  If Nancy and Chuck have a better idea how to stop people entering the country illegally, let them put it on table. Their response to Trumps address was pathetic in view of the fact that prior to Trumps election they supported stronger border security to include fencing.  Statistics seem to bear out that there is a significant amount of criminal illegal aliens in jails and prisons. Whether that is 1 % or 30 % of the prison population, it is more than the American public should have tolerate.  One last thing.  I grew up in Los Angeles where we never locked a car door, where the backdoor to the house was often left unlocked. I don't blame the fact that one cannot do that today on immigrants but when a community is altered too fast, it doesn't give people a change to assimilate and achieve the American Dream, it creates ghettos of poor people who do not assimilate and do not get ahead for all sorts of reasons, and which require tax dollars to support. Sorry but that is the reality.

Lots of assertions with no independent links or citations to back them up. A very lazy way to present a case. And so many dubious assertions that it would take way to long to refute each one. Persiflage.

[Dan58]

So sad to see all the Trumphaters here .... I don’t believe your propaganda ... Based on the real facts about illegal immigrants and drugs flowing in through the southern border - the Wall is needed... 

And it Will get Done ! Trump has several options IF the democrats Will not help. 

He can bypass the Senate and the house but he made a choice to Noy do it YET!!! 

Looking forward to see the Wall build ! 

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, Dan58 said:

So sad to see all the Trumphaters here .... I don’t believe your propaganda ... Based on the real facts about illegal immigrants and drugs flowing in through the southern border - the Wall is needed... 

And it Will get Done ! Trump has several options IF the democrats Will not help. 

He can bypass the Senate and the house but he made a choice to Noy do it YET!!! 

Looking forward to see the Wall build ! 

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectualexamination, or facts.^[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

The concept of truthiness has emerged as a major subject of discussion surrounding U.S. politics during the 1990s and 2000s because of the perception among some observers of a rise in propaganda and a growing hostility toward factual reporting and fact-based discussion.^[3]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness}

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Dan58 said:

So sad to see all the Trumphaters here .... I don’t believe your propaganda ... Based on the real facts about illegal immigrants and drugs flowing in through the southern border - the Wall is needed... 

And it Will get Done ! Trump has several options IF the democrats Will not help. 

He can bypass the Senate and the house but he made a choice to Noy do it YET!!! 

Looking forward to see the Wall build ! 

A significant majority of Americans do not want the great wall of "trump" to be built. Ever. It will not happen. Deal with it. Yeah there is a chance he might act the dictator that he dreams of being to build a new section of 100 miles or so. But that's it. Cheers dude. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

How about some TRUTH instead of "truthiness"...

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/factchecking-trumps-immigration-address/

 

• Despite the president’s claims of a “crisis,” the number of apprehensions at the Southwest border remains historically low.

 

• Trump suggested that 20,000 children were illegally brought into the country last month by “vicious coyotes and ruthless gangs,” but there’s no evidence of that in the available statistics.

 

• The president falsely claimed “the border wall would very quickly pay for itself” by stopping the flow of illegal drugs. But the majority of illicit drugs is smuggled through legal ports of entry in cars and tractor-trailers, and would not be stopped by a wall. 

 

• Trump continued to claim Mexico would pay for the border wall “indirectly” through a new international trade agreement. Economic experts told us the new trade pact won’t generate enough additional federal revenues to pay for a border wall. 

 

 

[Redline]

He’s spent enough already ????

 

[direction BANGKOK]

My question is are we saving loads of tax dollars during the shutdown? Same revenue in, but less out. The longer we keep it goin the more we "earn". 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, direction BANGKOK said:

My question is are we saving loads of tax dollars during the shutdown? Same revenue in, but less out. The longer we keep it goin the more we "earn". 

OMG!!!????
 

Quote

 

How Much Does A Government Shutdown Cost? It Could Cost U.S. Economy Billions

Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. Senate failed to reach an agreement on a stopgap budget bill Friday and it could cost the economy billions.

The last time the government shutdown in 2013 for 16 days the U.S. economy took a $24 billion hit, according to Standard & Poor’s analysis. This year’s government shutdown could cost the U.S. about $6 billion a week, according to Aljazeera.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/heres-how-much-government-shutdown-could-cost-786073

[Credo]

5 hours ago, Trouble said:

You argument is the same stuff that Democrats spout. First off as we can see from the last election, polls are not always correct and in fact can be way off the mark. 

<snipped>

The polls were correct within the margin of error.    The President is elected by the Electoral College, NOT the popular vote.   

 

[simple1]

Eight Republicans now oppose trump's shutdown blackmail approach to gain wall funding. Highly unlikely if trump went down the threat to national security path by executive order would pass judicial review. Effectively trump is being spiteful and attacking government staff in a futile attempt to enforce his will. trump is unfit to represent the Office of the President of the USA, as is his sycophant, Pence.

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, Dan58 said:

So sad to see all the Trumphaters here .... I don’t believe your propaganda ... Based on the real facts about illegal immigrants and drugs flowing in through the southern border - the Wall is needed... 

And it Will get Done ! Trump has several options IF the democrats Will not help. 

He can bypass the Senate and the house but he made a choice to Noy do it YET!!! 

Looking forward to see the Wall build ! 

Trumphaters = Those still capable of independent cerebral consideration.

[spidermike007]

11 hours ago, Trouble said:

You argument is the same stuff that Democrats spout. First off as we can see from the last election, polls are not always correct and in fact can be way off the mark. Trump stated his case for border security. The Wall, weather the Dems like it or not, is not an end in itself but part of a system of security systems to stop illegal immigration from the southern border. There are any number of clips on past speeches by both Pelosi and Schumer supporting physical barriers on the border. Whether or not the numbers are down is not the point. What is a fact is that literally thousands try to make the crossing each week. Trumps stated the statistics for illegals committing crimes. Those figures are not made up. The cost to support the "good" illegals is high. Health care, education, etc being at the top. The new California governor is proposing health coverage for 138,000 illegal youths at a cost of hundreds of millions.  Who pays for that? The American taxpayer. Meanwhile streets of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Redding are littered with homeless. Might be nice to take care of them first. Like it or not the massive influx of legal and illegal immigration to the US has changed the US forever. In Los Angeles for over half the population English is not the first language. The amount of immigration has created a fragmented population with no common interests. There is no more community but a hodgepodge of ethnic neighborhoods none having much in common with the other.  Like it or not uncontrolled immigration has forever changed the landscape of America as it has done in Belgium and some other European countries. Like it or not the latino immigrant has nothing in common with the Korean immigrant who has nothing in common with the Chinese immigrant who has nothing in common with the native black,anglo, and latino population. It's a fact of life and only people in dreamland see it as being something other than that.  The problem is not immigration itself but too many too fast.  No assimilation takes place now because the anglos and even blacks have been forced to leave their former neighborhoods. That's the reality. Place on top of this the fact that like it or not there are a lot of bad people out there who have entered the country, illegally. Why would anyone argue against border security.  If Nancy and Chuck have a better idea how to stop people entering the country illegally, let them put it on table. Their response to Trumps address was pathetic in view of the fact that prior to Trumps election they supported stronger border security to include fencing.  Statistics seem to bear out that there is a significant amount of criminal illegal aliens in jails and prisons. Whether that is 1 % or 30 % of the prison population, it is more than the American public should have tolerate.  One last thing.  I grew up in Los Angeles where we never locked a car door, where the backdoor to the house was often left unlocked. I don't blame the fact that one cannot do that today on immigrants but when a community is altered too fast, it doesn't give people a change to assimilate and achieve the American Dream, it creates ghettos of poor people who do not assimilate and do not get ahead for all sorts of reasons, and which require tax dollars to support. Sorry but that is the reality.

 

One thing the Latino immigrant has in common with the Korean and Chinese immigrants, is the willingness to work very hard, make an honest living, and do work that many white Americans are totally unwilling to do, at the kinds of wages they are being paid. Like it or not, America needs these immigrants. When the system is so broken, that honest, hard working people cannot get a visa to come to the US to work, they will sneak into the country. Wall, or no wall. The wall changes nothing. Tunnels, and ladders will be created. But, nobody within the GOP even wants to touch the discussion about immigration reform, and fixing a totally broken system. There is just the constant repetition of the wall. Trump never even talked about the wall, before Roger Stone suggested this mantra. 

 

I have also lived in and around LA for decades. There are a dozen reasons why the crime rate is, what it is. And illegal immigrants are a very small part of that. 

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, hansnl said:

The vast majority of the US citizens don't want the wall?

Only one percent of his supporters want the wall?

Where did you get all this wisdom?

From his opposers' polls?

 

 

Nobody said anything about 1%. Where did that come from? Yes, the majority of Americans do not support the wall, nor do they support the "Trump Wall Shutdown". Those are facts. Deny them all you want. 

 

The national opinion poll, which ran from Jan. 1 to Jan. 7, found that 51 percent of adults believe Trump “deserves most of the blame” for the shutdown, which entered its 18th day on Tuesday. That is up 4 percentage points from a similar poll that ran from Dec. 21 to 25. 

Another 32 percent blame congressional Democrats for the shutdown and 7 percent blame congressional Republicans, according to the poll. Those percentages are mostly unchanged from the previous poll.

 

Public support for a border wall has shifted considerably over the past few years as it became a centerpiece of the Trump agenda. The poll found that 41 percent of the public supports building additional border fencing, down 12 points from a similar poll that ran in the first week of 2015, as opposition doubled among Democrats. 

It also found that only 35 percent of adults in the United States support a congressional spending bill that includes funding for the wall, and 25 percent support Trump’s decision to keep the government closed until Congress approves funding for the wall.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown-poll/a-growing-number-of-americans-blame-trump-for-shutdown-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1P223U

[zydeco]

10 hours ago, Redline said:

He’s spent enough already ????

 

Trump has his priorities which are tax cuts and juicing up the stock market. Nothing else matters.

[direction BANGKOK]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OMG!!!????
 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/heres-how-much-government-shutdown-could-cost-786073

lol. Leave it to Americans to stop sending people to work and actually lose money. I am actually curious, maybe not curious enough to read that link. Like if you shutdown a business, you lose revenue, but you don't pay employees. The govt of course never loses tax revenue, but right now they aren't paying employees,  ut they still manage to lose money with all the revenue still being generated, lol. 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

One thing the Latino immigrant has in common with the Korean and Chinese immigrants, is the willingness to work very hard, make an honest living, and do work that many white Americans are totally unwilling to do, at the kinds of wages they are being paid. Like it or not, America needs these immigrants.

This may be half true, half not. No one is doubting that Latinos are hard working. However... the idea that they do work that "white Americans" aren't willing to do is not. You said it yourself, "at the kinds of wages they are being paid". That is the key. I would love to know precisely what jobs "many white Americans are totally unwilling to do".

 

An influx of largely uneducated and unskilled people does no good for the economy. Jobs for such people are decreasing and will continue to decrease as automation takes over many service industry areas. What illegal immigration DOES do is to drive down wages. This also hurts legal residents and citizens who must compete with illegals for fewer and fewer jobs. The only people that this helps are business owners who can exploit at will. They can pay slave wages and get away with it.  To a small extent, it also benefits consumers who can get marginally cheaper goods and services. However, I think most Americans would be happy to pay an extra dollar for a hotel room or dime for a head of lettuce if they were certain that it had been obtained by a legal resident. 

 

America does need immigrants. But it needs skilled and educated immgrants, not a growing underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

lol. Leave it to Americans to stop sending people to work and actually lose money. I am actually curious, maybe not curious enough to read that link. Like if you shutdown a business, you lose revenue, but you don't pay employees. The govt of course never loses tax revenue, but right now they aren't paying employees,  ut they still manage to lose money with all the revenue still being generated, lol. 

If you're trying out being an economist, I suggest you don't quit your day job.

[spidermike007]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

This may be half true, half not. No one is doubting that Latinos are hard working. However... the idea that they do work that "white Americans" aren't willing to do is not. You said it yourself, "at the kinds of wages they are being paid". That is the key.  Also vaguely racist, but we will leave that aside for now. 

 

An influx of largely uneducated and unskilled people does no good for the economy. Jobs for such people are decreasing and will continue to decrease as automation takes over many service industry areas. What illegal immigration DOES do is to drive down wages. This also hurts legal residents and citizens who must compete with illegals for fewer and fewer jobs. The only people that this helps are business owners who can exploit at will. They can pay slave wages and get away with it.  To a small extent, it also benefits consumers who can get marginally cheaper goods and services. However, I think most Americans would be happy to pay an extra dollar for a hotel room or dime for a head of lettuce if they were certain that it had been obtained by a legal resident. 

 

America does need immigrants. But it needs skilled and educated immgrants, not a growing underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation. 

 

I agree with some of what you are saying. America used to get skilled workers. We used to get the best and the brightest from all over the world. Fact. Now, we allow these people to study in the US, then when they graduate at the top of their class, they cannot get a visa to stay and work. Fact. The legal immigration system in the US is completely broken. So, the best and the brightest no longer come to the US, as the visa process is ridiculous, outdated, and the quota system is an antiquated system that does not work anymore. Fact.

 

As far as the concept of white Americans being unwilling to work for low wage jobs, there is nothing racist about that. I am a white man, and I can speak as freely as I want about white people, without the slightest bit of fear of being cowed by political correctness, which means less than zero to me. 

 

I do agree about the long term issues, of a country full of unskilled workers. The US may quickly becoming a nation of dishwashers and landscapers. But the same companies that got those massive tax breaks, employ alot of unskilled, undocumented, and illegal laborers, at $8.50 to $12 an hour, and they love it. Trump himself hired several to work at some of his country clubs. Totally undocumented, with fake SS cards, which everyone involved, knew were fake. 

 

So, the illegal immigrant debate becomes far more nuanced, complicated, multi dimensional, and complex, when you bring in the legal immigration side of the equation. It becomes less about slogans, and more about facts. But, sometimes facts do get in the way of a political agenda, and fear mongering. Not that I am accusing you of that. Just the Republican party, and the chief executive. As far as the wall goes, it was just a campaign slogan, that he was given, when his handlers realized he was not staying on point, and when he refused to discuss immigration. They knew they needed a slogan with the word build in it. 

[direction BANGKOK]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If you're trying out being an economist, I suggest you don't quit your day job.

I remeber I was talking with a Mexican citizen a few years back when there was a story in the news about how much the US Govt was going to spend to "terminate" some horses. He just laughed, because it is funny. Somehow, we are the only ones that don't get it. Same goes when we have fire problems in Califonia. Mexico does not have those problems, and how much do they spend on fire prefention? $0. They just let fires burn lol. The US govt is just so inefficient, they seem to be the only entity in existense to figure ways to lose and give away money regardless of the situation.

[Berkshire]

10 hours ago, direction BANGKOK said:

My question is are we saving loads of tax dollars during the shutdown? Same revenue in, but less out. The longer we keep it goin the more we "earn". 

That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at things...you must be a Trump supporter.  But no, this shutdown will cost us billions...

 

[The partial government shutdown comes with a high price: in the billions, maybe tens of billions of dollars so far, and increasing in scale daily. It costs more to shutter the government than to keep it open, so long as accumulated bills and deferred salaries are eventually paid as they have following all previous temporary closures. And the lack of spending drags down the country’s economy, especially in communities with government workers or those near national parks.]

 

http://fortune.com/2019/01/09/govt-shutdown-2019-costs-billions/

 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

I remeber I was talking with a Mexican citizen a few years back when there was a story in the news about how much the US Govt was going to spend to "terminate" some horses. He just laughed, because it is funny. Somehow, we are the only ones that don't get it. Same goes when we have fire problems in Califonia. Mexico does not have those problems, and how much do they spend on fire prefention? $0. They just let fires burn lol. The US govt is just so inefficient, they seem to be the only entity in existense to figure ways to lose and give away money regardless of the situation.

I call TOTAL B.S.

Dude -- it's really hard to take your posts seriously. It appears you are mostly about slinging it without any regard for facts or reality. Just to provoke. Not about serious discussion.  Reminds me of a certain American illegitimate president. (Bye.) 

 

Quote

Mexico’s National Forest Fire Management Program

http://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/mexico-s-national-forest-fire-management-program

[Hanaguma]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I agree with some of what you are saying. America used to get skilled workers. We used to get the best and the brightest from all over the world. Fact. Now, we allow these people to study in the US, then when they graduate at the top of their class, they cannot get a visa to stay and work. Fact. The legal immigration system in the US is completely broken. So, the best and the brightest no longer come to the US, as the visa process is ridiculous, outdated, and the quota system is an antiquated system that does not work anymore. Fact.

 

As far as the concept of white Americans being unwilling to work for low wage jobs, there is nothing racist about that. I am a white man, and I can speak as freely as I want about white people, without the slightest bit of fear of being cowed by political correctness, which means less than zero to me. 

 

I do agree about the long term issues, of a country full of unskilled workers. The US may quickly becoming a nation of dishwashers and landscapers. But the same companies that got those massive tax breaks, employ alot of unskilled, undocumented, and illegal laborers, at $8.50 to $12 an hour, and they love it. Trump himself hired several to work at some of his country clubs. Totally undocumented, with fake SS cards, which everyone involved, knew were fake. 

 

So, the illegal immigrant debate becomes far more nuanced, complicated, multi dimensional, and complex, when you bring in the legal immigration side of the equation. It becomes less about slogans, and more about facts. But, sometimes facts do get in the way of a political agenda, and fear mongering. Not that I am accusing you of that. Just the Republican party, and the chief executive. As far as the wall goes, it was just a campaign slogan, that he was given, when his handlers realized he was not staying on point, and when he refused to discuss immigration. They knew they needed a slogan with the word build in it. 

Hi Mike, I think we can agree on a number of points. Yes, the US needs to do more to both educate AND attract good applicants and immigrants. There have been a number of programs for them, but there need to be more. 

 

The problem is that there is already too large a pool of unskilled labor in the US. Both from legal residents/citizens and illegal immigrants. Too much competition for few jobs will only push wages down and play into the hands of employers.  Restaurants and the like should have to pay fair market wages to their employees, but wages can't be fair when one group is dragging them down. 

 

There is no such thing as a job that a person of any race won't do. There are only jobs that people won't due at the wage being offered. Increase the wage until workers are found. Bingo, the free market in action. 

 

So. Combine strict border enforcement (including barriers) with swift deportations, and also penalties on employers who exploit the vulnerable. A winning formula, yes?

[Jingthing]

Comedy break blast from the past about concrete walls from the "president" himself. You can't make this stuff up. (See END of video.)

 

 

[David Walden]

20 hours ago, hansnl said:

The vast majority of the US citizens don't want the wall?

Only one percent of his supporters want the wall?

Where did you get all this wisdom?

From his opposers' polls?

 

You could likely apply the same comment in the US about paying taxes and get the same answer.  As much as we all hate paying taxes we all know it has to happen the wall also. Sooner or later it will happen. Preferably before the illegals get the vote, outnumber you and send all of you Americans off to there now bankrupt counties.  Which they own also, you'll be paying them rent.  But that will all happen after I'm dead and gone but not forgotten.  Too many people in the US want to be President, I think at least 5 million... Perhaps I got that wrong maybe only 2.5 million.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

You could likely apply the same comment in the US about paying taxes and get the same answer.  As much as we all hate paying taxes we all know it has to happen the wall also. Sooner or later it will happen. Preferably before the illegals get the vote, outnumber you and send all of you Americans off to there now bankrupt counties.  Which they own also, you'll be paying them rent.  But that will all happen after I'm dead

and gone but not forgotten.  Too many people in the US want to be President, I think at least 5 million... Perhaps I got that wrong maybe only 2.5 million.

You're right taxation will continue. But the great wall of "trump" will never happen. He couldn't do that when he totally controlled the government and he certainly can't do that now. It's very simple minded of "trump" fans to think such a wall is the solution to the very complex issues surrounding immigration. 

[Hanaguma]

Jing, I don't think anyone has ever said that a wall is "the solution", perhaps that it is "a solution".  

 

It will solve one part of the problem, if not perfectly than at least to a degree.  Other parts of the immigration debate can be solved as well, but they aren't tied to the basic issues of national sovereignty and territorial integrity. 

 

Perhaps a simplistic analogy, but if you have an unwanted person in your house, you have two tasks- getting the unwanted person out, and then taking steps to ensure that an unwanted person doesn't come back. They aren't tied together. Similarly solving the issue of the current 10 million or so illegal immigrants in the US need not be tied to isues of discouraging others from joining them.

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

This may be half true, half not. No one is doubting that Latinos are hard working. However... the idea that they do work that "white Americans" aren't willing to do is not. You said it yourself, "at the kinds of wages they are being paid". That is the key. I would love to know precisely what jobs "many white Americans are totally unwilling to do".

 

An influx of largely uneducated and unskilled people does no good for the economy. Jobs for such people are decreasing and will continue to decrease as automation takes over many service industry areas. What illegal immigration DOES do is to drive down wages. This also hurts legal residents and citizens who must compete with illegals for fewer and fewer jobs. The only people that this helps are business owners who can exploit at will. They can pay slave wages and get away with it.  To a small extent, it also benefits consumers who can get marginally cheaper goods and services. However, I think most Americans would be happy to pay an extra dollar for a hotel room or dime for a head of lettuce if they were certain that it had been obtained by a legal resident. 

 

America does need immigrants. But it needs skilled and educated immgrants, not a growing underclass who are vulnerable to exploitation. 

You think the Republicans are ever going to go after the employers of illegal immigrants in a serious way? Especially given that Trump's own businesses have been hiring them?