Toxic smog settles in for long haul

[Ned]

In Chiang Mai in a month or so we'll be wishing for this type of pollution now being experienced in Bangkok..

It's much worse than what's going on in Bangkok now.

Buses and traffic in general are being blamed for it now but from the fire map it looks like the whole of Cambodia and areas around Bkk are on fire. And don't forget the thousands of factories in the city as well. It's a wonder how that filthy dump is not shrouded in this type of aerial muck 365 days a year.

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, perconrad said:

There are many N95 mask for sale on Lazada

That does not mean they are currently available however or time for delivery (local source I see is rated only 74%%) - and many from other source are shipped from overseas with delay.  But agree it may well be faster than waiting on local drug stores.

Edited January 16, 2019 by lopburi3

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, jmacken306 said:

They need to setup testing stations when you go to renew your car's tag, lets say every 3-5 years, if you pass you get a new tag

Are they not supposed to test that EVERY YEAR after the vehicle is 7 years old, like the UK MOT test, before you can get a road tax disc.

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, Tchooptip said:

I bought those ones on Lazada

I believe the upgraded dust/fume mask, which I documented in the thread HERE is better (while costing a little more) because it has a one-way exhale valve which, I believe, prevents as much air from potentially bypassing the filter. Also the dust/mask has a very firm cloth facial seal which is also supported by its having the valve. It's also very re-usable because it comes with a spare filter and additional filters can be fabricated from the cheaper, looser-fitting filters such as the one(s) you bought from Lazada.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

“It is still not necessary to make Bangkok a pollution-control area,” Pollution Control Department (PCD) director-general Pralong Dumrongthai insisted yesterday. 

 

However, he acknowledged that the build-up of PM2.5 in Bangkok was high enough to affect the health of people. 

But it's only "the people" and they don't matter !

Acknowledging they have a problem is the problem, that means they have to do something!!

The best they can do is "wait for March"

 

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Also, we will have to encourage people to switch to electric and hybrid cars,” he added. 

Good luck with finding somewhere to recharge them !!!!

[unamazedloso]

why are they ignoring the root cause? Its black snow season. Meaning time to burn the sugarcane fields. Its over 200 on my pm2.5 unit all night and half the day and occasionally spikes to 500 which is the max of the unit can measure. Every dam year it's the same and when its not its around 100 thanks to illegal charcoal manufacture. Stupid government is lying to the public and not going to spend a cent on the health of thais. They just dont care. Fires are band but whos been fined or arrested? No one! So whos responsible?. A fake government only there for the money for themselves. They should be held accountable. Its a human rights abuse to say nothing needs to be done. 

[unamazedloso]

is the government planning on big profits with the introduction of elec cars in the future therefore still blaming the traffic so it encourages people to fork out huge dum taxes?

Any braniac can see its seasonal. but yep its always polluted also....

[Tchooptip]

25 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

I believe the upgraded dust/fume mask, which I documented in the thread HERE is better (while costing a little more) because it has a one-way exhale valve which, I believe, prevents as much air from potentially bypassing the filter. Also the dust/mask has a very firm cloth facial seal which is also supported by its having the valve. It's also very re-usable because it comes with a spare filter and additional filters can be fabricated from the cheaper, looser-fitting filters such as the one(s) you bought from Lazada.

I intend to buy a home air filter too, I'm not sure if I understood you did it?

Many many are sold on Lazada. Have you a bit of advice on the subject?

When I see the state of the blades of the fan after a short time I'm afraid I told my wife do you realise we are breathing that? But she does not seem to care at all. So I will buy an air filter maybe like this one?

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/mitsuta-8-40-70-map650-i100092188-s100109301.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlistcategory.list.25.5add42dfiIu35R&search=1

[xylophone]

7 hours ago, janhkt said:

"For short-term measures, police are now cracking down on vehicles that emit black exhaust fumes"

 

Short term? NOW cracking down? If this had happened ages ago, the problem would would not be as severe as it is. <deleted> dimwit. 

Totally agree with your comments as something could have easily been done many years ago and in the 14 years that I have been driving here, the number of filthy black smoke emitting old vehicles has only increased.

 

Surely there are measures that could have been put in place years ago to take these old clunkers of the road, and whilst on the subject of pollution, the burning was supposed to have been made illegal, but still goes on........... 

 

And on the subject of burning; now I'm not an expert on agriculture or the like, but it must be possible to be able to plough the rice and sugarcane stubble back into the ground so that burning does not have to occur? Perhaps rather than spending billions of baht on submarines and tanks, the money could have been used to provide thousands of machines to do this, allocating a number to each tambon or the like..............there has to be a better way, but as this is Thailand, affirmative action is a bit like saying that corruption will be cured or that the BIB will enforce the law!!

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Farangs who came here complaining about the nanny state back home can't have it both ways....unless, of course things start to affect you personally. Then the government should do more, eh?

 

Newsflash! You moved to a third world country.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

in the 14 years that I have been driving here, the number of filthy black smoke emitting old vehicles has only increased.

Suspect you do not remember the 60'70's when a trip from Don Muang to Sukhumvit was a white handkerchief turned black?  Emissions were, and still are, greatly improved from that period.  But agree black smoke has been appearing all too much in recent years with some very old public vehicles seeming allowed to run.

[Inepto Cracy]

Now for something else to consider, that is not brought up in comments. Poeple and animals eyes ?

Whats the answer to that?

Swimming goggles?

Next you will be going around outside in bio / hazmat suits too.

Lax laws, lax enforcement of laws.

[MaxLee]

6 hours ago, mackayae said:

What type of face mask is effective?

The typical "SAVING FACE mask" 

[Tchooptip]

51 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Farangs who came here complaining about the nanny state back home can't have it both ways....unless, of course things start to affect you personally. Then the government should do more, eh?

 

Newsflash! You moved to a third world country.

1

Are you sure you'll be happy to move to a third world country?

Maybe it could be a little warning stamp on the passports, right under the visa  ????

[spidermike007]

If Thailand wanted to create a solution to this problem, they could. I would suggest the best place to start would be to prevent burning. It does appear that the sugar cane farmers do need to burn. It is an easy and inexpensive convenience, but is a devastation to the environment. There may be alternatives. And Thailand should be investing money into finding solutions, like they are presently doing in Australia.

 

But Sunshine Sugar chief executive Chris Connors said the industry was looking for proactive solutions to reduce the need to burn. "We don't want to burn, the growers don't want to burn and we know that the community does not want us to burn. But at the moment we have no choice," he said. The new research, being conducted by the Queensland University of Technology (QUT) and funded by Sugar Research Australia (SRA), is looking at ways that the whole crop could be brought to the mill. The research is looking at a new method of cleaning the cane by removing the trash and other impurities after harvest, but before it enters the mill. It would use less energy and can work in wet or dry conditions. Mr Connors said the research was an "important piece of a broader puzzle that needed to be solved".

The next step would require a look at the logistics of moving cane around that had much more trash, as this was a lighter and less efficient load. There was also the important step of harnessing the best value from the trash. "Sunshine Sugar has a keen interest in that side of it, because we are still of the view that we want to take all of the crop in," Mr Connors said. "There is this crop sitting out there where we are throwing so much away and only taking the stalk in the middle. "There is another 25% of material there that we can do something with." SRA chief executive Neil Fisher said the research had useful implications for both growers and millers. "It has positive implications for the farming system and its efficiency, and also for product diversification and value-adding," he said.

 

https://www.northernstar.com.au/news/research-could-reduce-the-need-for-cane-burning/2959189/

 

And the next thing the government could be doing, if they cared, was to discourage the sale of diesel vehicles. This is also devastating for air quality.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by spidermike007

[Benmart]

A comedy if it were not so serious. All the glamour, gleem and fancy medals cannot hide the danger confronting this country and its environment. 

[Jimdandy]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

STATE AGENCY INSISTS MAKING BANGKOK A POLLUTION-CONTROL ZONE NOT NECESSARY

 

BANGKOK RESIDENTS will have to put up with smog until early March, as high levels of PM2.5 particles is expected to settle over the capital for many more weeks.

Is this another one of those government denials that pollution is not a severe problem, the same as they do with road fatalities? In other words ...Dear citizens we have elected to stick our head in the sand on those issues as well. Just think long term, if we don't do anything, the pollution and traffic fatalities will both decrease the surplus population...

[Jonmarleesco]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

"It is still not necessary to make Bangkok a pollution-control area,” Pollution Control Department (PCD) director-general Pralong Dumrongthai insisted yesterday. 

What utter ___locks! If that really is the case, why the hell do we need a Pollution Control Department, or a director-general to run it? 

[george11]

"This was despite morning downpours, which improved PM2.5 readings in many parts of Bangkok." Smog mixed with water = acid rain (Acid rain is caused by a chemical reaction that begins when compounds like sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides are released into the air. These substances can rise very high into the atmosphere, where they mix and react with water, oxygen, and other chemicals to form more acidic pollutants, known as acid rain. EPA definition).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, marc651 said:

Wrong!! Misinformation,  the safe level is 12 micrgrams pet cubic meter not 50!

Actually they are conveniently confusing the AQI index (air quality index) with the pm2.5 micrograms count.  The Chinese started this, using the wrong scale,  in an attempt to make the values look better.

 

They should strive for sub 20 values,  declaring everything above 50 an emergency. Apparently they doubled this stating above 100 is an emergency...

 

See the attached conversion scale from pm2.5 to aqi. The right column shows the pm2.5 microgram count, left you see the aqi index associated and the colour that goes with it. 

 

The Thai government has a different and more relaxed standard for PM.2.5 air pollution compared to either the U.S., EU or the WHO...  That's why their AQI scale and reporting thresholds are different.

 

12 micrograms IS the top limit for "Good" / green air quality using the U.S. EPA AQI standard.

Edited January 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The government numpties here appear to be operating on the notion that BKK somehow has a sky wall surrounding it, and it's only what happens inside BKK that affects air quality.

 

When in reality, the pollution also blows in from outside areas depending on the weather and wind flows, especially when you get to agricultural burning issues..

 

That's not to say there's no purpose to imposing measures and restrictions in BKK (which they're not even willing to do). But it's really a bigger, broader problem than just BKK...  And they need to acknowledge and deal with it on a national level.

.

[MaxYakov]

5 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

I intend to buy a home air filter too, I'm not sure if I understood you did it?

Many many are sold on Lazada. Have you a bit of advice on the subject?

When I see the state of the blades of the fan after a short time I'm afraid I told my wife do you realise we are breathing that? But she does not seem to care at all. So I will buy an air filter maybe like this one?

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/mitsuta-8-40-70-map650-i100092188-s100109301.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlistcategory.list.25.5add42dfiIu35R&amp;search=1

Lazada doesn't work well with my Firefox and Chrome browers. Can you describe what product you were interested in buying (trying to show me with your link)? In the past, HomePro at Chitlom had a selection electronic air cleaners. I've used Lazada only once and would buy from them if I could get a decent review of electronic air cleaner I would be considering on the internet.

 

I didn't buy a proper "electronic air cleaner" - I felt they were too expensive after I bought just the HEPA filter for one and then realized that It would rapidly clog up and have to be replaced often at 600 baht each time it clogged. I bought the HEPA filter to be used with a Perfect Brandz PBC 333 evaporative cooler that I had bought second-hand. Since the PBC 333 put out very humid air, I decided to convert it into an air cleaning fan. It was an easy conversion and have been using it for years with the 3M Filtrete^TM filtering material - one layer. I've experimented with using a synthetic foam filter that has been soaked in palm oil (similarly to oil/foam lawn mower carburetor filters). The foam/palm oil approach was very successful in that the oil would turn very black after a very sort time and palm oil is not expensive - I washed the dirty filters with dish detergent and re-soaked them with fresh oil to replace them.

 

I went back to using the 3M Filtrete^TM filter material which is less expensive than using the 600 baht HEPA filter and seems to be very effective as the foam/oil filter (very messy) - both approaches get dirty very quickly so I have to change the filter often.

 

I also use a single layer of  3M Filtrete^TM filter material in one of my bathroom windows so that I'm not wide open to Bangkok air from the window, which had only slats of glass and an insect screen. It gets dirty within two months with just open/closing bathroom door air flow. The 3M Filtrete^TM filter material is the cheapest alternative, but it's not cheap. I also use it in my bedroom's A/C evaporator/fan - the product's actual intended use. I've been keeping a simple log of my A/C usage to determine how long it takes for it's filters to get dirty enough to change. Using 3M Filtrete^TM filter material seems to be effective in that the material gets visibly very dirty after less than 100 hours of continuous fan-pulled, fairly high velocity air flow, but I can't confirm what the smallest particle size it will catch - just that it turns a very dark gray very quickly. I experimented with using two layers of the material once to determine how effective only one layer was - the single (first) layer was stopping most of the particles, since the second layer did not get very dirty.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by MaxYakov

[observer90210]

who cares ? only the lower classes and the pesky farangs hang out under the pollution oudoors........the hi-so's and influential only move around in a/c Benz's or BMW's, with apapted air particle filters !! .. so why care really...

[metisdead]

Posts in violation of fair use policy have been removed. 

 

A post containing inappropriate language has been removed. 

[sletraveler]

We are heading to New Delhi in a couple weeks. The current aqi is 999+. Joy to the world, Bangkok will seem like, a breath of fresh air by comparison.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Tchooptip]

9 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Lazada doesn't work well with my Firefox and Chrome browers. Can you describe what product you were interested in buying (trying to show me with your link)? In the past, HomePro at Chitlom had a selection electronic air cleaners. I've used Lazada only once and would buy from them if I could get a decent review of electronic air cleaner I would be considering on the internet.

 

I didn't buy a proper "electronic air cleaner" - I felt they were too expensive after I bought just the HEPA filter for one and then realized that It would rapidly clog up and have to be replaced often at 600 baht each time it clogged. I bought the HEPA filter to be used with a Perfect Brandz PBC 333 evaporative cooler that I had bought second-hand. Since the PBC 333 put out very humid air, I decided to convert it into an air cleaning fan. It was an easy conversion and have been using it for years with the 3M Filtrete^TM filtering material - one layer. I've experimented with using a synthetic foam filter that has been soaked in palm oil (similarly to oil/foam lawn mower carburetor filters). The foam/palm oil approach was very successful in that the oil would turn very black after a very sort time and palm oil is not expensive - I washed the dirty filters with dish detergent and re-soaked them with fresh oil to replace them.

 

I went back to using the 3M Filtrete^TM filter material which is less expensive than using the 600 baht HEPA filter and seems to be very effective as the foam/oil filter (very messy) - both approaches get dirty very quickly so I have to change the filter often.

 

I also use a single layer of  3M Filtrete^TM filter material in one of my bathroom windows so that I'm not wide open to Bangkok air from the window, which had only slats of glass and an insect screen. It gets dirty within two months with just open/closing bathroom door air flow. The 3M Filtrete^TM filter material is the cheapest alternative, but it's not cheap. I also use it in my bedroom's A/C evaporator/fan - the product's actual intended use. I've been keeping a simple log of my A/C usage to determine how long it takes for it's filters to get dirty enough to change. Using 3M Filtrete^TM filter material seems to be effective in that the material gets visibly very dirty after less than 100 hours of continuous fan-pulled, fairly high velocity air flow, but I can't confirm what the smallest particle size it will catch - just that it turns a very dark gray very quickly. I experimented with using two layers of the material once to determine how effective only one layer was - the single (first) layer was stopping most of the particles, since the second layer did not get very dirty.

 

Hope this helps.

8

Hi Max , ???? thanks for taking so much of your time for answering, I understood you "transformed" an evaporative cooler in air filter, logical somewhere... and clever too, lol. I have an evaporative cooler outside on the terrace but it is rather a big one, with a tank for 40 litres of water and a fan in aluminium of forty centimetres, it has the size of a small fridge so I cannot put it inside, and with its noise of a little plane even less in my bedroom. On the other hand, I have taken not what you said about the filters clogging rapidly, the one I have been looking for, the replacement filter is at 1000฿, one people asked how many time it has to be changed, answer every year, when I see the blade of the fan I bought 3 months ago that I have cleaned already one time I'm afraid. On top of it, the dust looks greasy. Before coming to Thailand I stayed eight years on a boat where the dust is totally non-existent.

So I'm going to wait a little while, for inspiration to come taking into account your inventive spirit

I have many tools so I could do every many things on my own????

PS: I bought dozens of time on Lazada in five or six years an I use google chrome as a browser no problem at all, so ?

 

[AloisAmrein]

Welcome to Bangkok. According to TAT one of the best cities to visit worldwide. (If you like suicide.)

[balo]

18 hours ago, mackayae said:

What type of face mask is effective?

N95 

 

[Toany]

And still the government allows the burning of sugar cane fields,
They have and use sugar cane harvesters on some fields.

There is a solution, but the government choose to permit the continuing burning. of the sugar can fields

Edited January 17, 2019 by Toany