Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[nontabury]

44 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

A federal Europe will only happen if the government of each and every member state agrees to it.

 

I can't see that ever happening.

 

Like other myths, from the Euro Army to straight cucumbers, a federal Europe is just another Brexiteer scare story; and you accuse Remain of running a project fear!

 

 

 

  Before you state that the creation of an E.U army is a scare story, can I suggest that you contact Angela Merkel, she who must be obeyed.

And if you think this is not sufficient proof,of what they intend, I can provide you with many more examples.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

   

 

 

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

........ like a broken record...

 

 

29th we are out.... 

I don't even think the parliament could get all it's business through on time ... on the 29th you'll still be in ... and possibly heading for a second vote.

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It was a binary choice Remain or Leave the EU which includes leaving the single market and customs union and it was Remain politicians in the form of Cameron Osbourne Clegg and many others that a vote for leave would mean leaving the EU, the single market and the customs union

Leaving with a smooth transition to the sunny uplands ... that's what was campaigned for, not crashing out on WTO terms. No one campaigned for that ... so it's either leave with a deal or no Brexit at all.  

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

Typical snowflakery.
What are you when you realise that nobody cares about you? Proper democracy is already in progress. It’s too late for your Remain subversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Watch the votes next week, the week parliament takes back control ... and ends no deal Brexit. 

[bomber]

just watched bbc news and bojo and moggers both saying a deal can be reached with a little tinkering,both talking very different to weeks ago,probably realising crashing out with a no deal is madness.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

  Before you state that the creation of an E.U army is a scare story, can I suggest that you contact Angela Merkel, she who must be obeyed.

And if you think this is not sufficient proof,of what they intend, I can provide you with many more examples.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

   

 

 

I totally agree. No doubt the reaminers on here will bury their heads in the sand and blame it on fake news. Simply they just can't accept the truth.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-european-army-france-russia-us-military-defence-eu-a8619721.html

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

 

 

 

[Scott]

An unattributed post has been reported and removed.  

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, Spidey said:

No, it means all voters, whichever way they voted were uninformed, which is why we need a referendum now.

Speak for yourself. I was informed as everyone else was I know. It reminds me like a spoiled child who doesn't get their way and harps on and on playing the victim. If you were uninformed then that's your fault. Please do not speculate that everyone else was.

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

That link is behind a pay wall.

 

As for the rest of your post, you still haven't answered the question; if Thatcher was so against the EU, why did she sign the Single European Act?

That was in 1986 before she changed her mind. 

[vinny41]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

You get what it said on the ballot paper. Basta! Consider yourselves fortunate.

Correct and Leave the EU meant leave the EU, Leave the single market and leave the Customs union in the same way that remain meant staying in all of the above

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You said that they should leave the EU in order to maintain an open border with us; despite the fact, which you continue to ignore, that over 90% of the Irish people have no desire to so do.

 

Deny it all you like; but the post is there for all to see.

You have gone and done it again and added into the text - my post is still there for all to see - I did not say that they should leave the EU in order to maintain an open border with us. I said to avoid all this. And that includes avoiding the EU generally. You should stop the misquotes.

[Grouse]

Tour de force by Sir Ivan Rogers at UCL

 

 

Really gets to grips with the key issues. Worth listening to (may be a little hard going for typical Brexiteers but perseverance will pay dividends in understanding)

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The EU will not tolerate the current Irish border arrangements you say.  What exactly will they do to Ireland when Ireland refuses to harden the border? 

Or do you think Ireland will cave in and harden the border, risking a return to the troubles? 

 

Please answer this. 

Either GB AND NI stay in CU or there will be a border down the Irish Sea. I can't see the Republic leaving the EU just to keep England happy.

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Correct and Leave the EU meant leave the EU, Leave the single market and leave the Customs union in the same way that remain meant staying in all of the above

Read what it says on the ballot paper.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Tour de force by Sir Ivan Rogers at UCL

 

 

Really gets to grips with the key issues. Worth listening to (may be a little hard going for typical Brexiteers but perseverance will pay dividends in understanding)

This timely reminder is worth a look too:

 

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, nontabury said:

Before you state that the creation of an E.U army is a scare story, can I suggest that you contact Angela Merkel, she who must be obeyed.

And if you think this is not sufficient proof,of what they intend, I can provide you with many more examples.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

More on the European Army slipping in under the radar:

 

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Leaving with a smooth transition to the sunny uplands ... that's what was campaigned for, not crashing out on WTO terms. No one campaigned for that ... so it's either leave with a deal or no Brexit at all.  

Doesn't matter what was campaigned for some people had made their minds up on how they were voting back as far as 2000  its either leave with a deal or leave no deal

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Speak for yourself. I was informed as everyone else was I know. It reminds me like a spoiled child who doesn't get their way and harps on and on playing the victim. If you were uninformed then that's your fault. Please do not speculate that everyone else was.

So you knew what the terms for our exit would be? No, you didn't. Not speculation, a fact, something that Brexiteers tend to shy away from.

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Watch the votes next week, the week parliament takes back control ... and ends no deal Brexit. 

I think you living in Cloud cuckoo land if you think that will resolve the issue, and if that was to happen it would allow future  governments to simply just announce we are leaving the EU, no referendums, no asking the people,  just drop a note to the EU stating we are leaving end of XXXX

[Laughing Gravy]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

So you knew what the terms for our exit would be? No, you didn't. Not speculation, a fact, something that Brexiteers tend to shy away from.

Don't be putting words into my mouth. Yes I knew the terms. It was sprouted countless times in the House of commons and political programs. It was leave means leave with once in a generation vote.

Leave the ECJ, CU, SM and take back control. Now everyone who has ears or eyes, could see it.

 

So if you didn't, are you deaf and blind. if you are then, I can understand why you didn't know. if you aren't, you are ignorant to the facts which have been 'done to death here'.

[evadgib]

Meanwhile in Davos...

 

[Spidey]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

Don't be putting words into my mouth. Yes I knew the terms. It was sprouted countless times in the House of commons and political programs. It was leave means leave with once in a generation vote.

Leave the ECJ, CU, SM and take back control. Now everyone who has ears or eyes, could see it.

 

So if you didn't, are you deaf and blind. if you are then, I can understand why you didn't know. if you aren't, you are ignorant to the facts which have been 'done to death here'.

Well if the "May" deal is accepted, you won't be getting what you voted for! So, clearly you didn't know the terms . We still don't know yet. I suppose, for Brexiteers, ignorance is bliss.

[Laughing Gravy]

43 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This timely reminder is worth a look too:

 

I agree with you but he also promised a referendum as early as 2008. The video has subsequently been pulled on Youtube.

 

Here is something that some remainers should read.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck%2bdid%2bblair%2bpromise%2beuro%2breferendum/558277.html

 

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck who promised euro vote/1714147.html

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Tour de force by Sir Ivan Rogers at UCL

 

 

Really gets to grips with the key issues. Worth listening to (may be a little hard going for typical Brexiteers but perseverance will pay dividends in understanding)

 

ta,

pretty good and systematic presentation, am now 30 minutes in, need some rest and time to reflect

so far, he hasn't said much not covered on TVF on way or the other,

but he is systematic as opposed to TV

don't agree with all that he says though

 

will go through the rest, later

 

add;

the chap needs a course in presentation techniques

slow down a tad - more distinct diction

look at the audience  not the bloody manuscript

 

this would have been better listened to as an audiocast - his presence is just a disturbance

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Either GB AND NI stay in CU or there will be a border down the Irish Sea. I can't see the Republic leaving the EU just to keep England happy.

tend to agree with that

 

and again, how far should 60 million UKers bend over backwards in order

to satisfy the lusts of NI hardliners and nutcases?

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Read what it says on the ballot paper.

It was a binary referendum remain equals status quo staying in the eu, staying in the single market and staying in the customs union, leave equals leaving the eu, leaving the single market and leaving the customs union

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

So you knew what the terms for our exit would be? No, you didn't. Not speculation, a fact, something that Brexiteers tend to shy away from.

True to a certain extent.

 

But now we know the deal that May and the EU are determined to agree - as close to a fact as one can get nowadays!

 

MPs understandably, and for obvious reasons voted against this deal.

 

The next couple of weeks are going to be very 'interesting' .

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Tour de force by Sir Ivan Rogers at UCL

 

 

Really gets to grips with the key issues. Worth listening to (may be a little hard going for typical Brexiteers but perseverance will pay dividends in understanding)

 

through

ta Grouse, this is very good stuff, you may have a Belhaven and a Monkey Shoulder, it's on me

 

would you know if the manuscript is available?

I'd love to have that and read it in peace and quiet

 

particularly liked his bits on services trade, WTO trading and the Backstop

 

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

But now we know the deal that May and the EU are determined to agree - as close to a fact as one can get nowadays!

 

MPs understandably, and for obvious reasons voted against this deal.

Which is why it would have made much more sense to have held the referendum now rather than before article 50 had been triggered.

[Spidey]

23 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

An unattributed post was a new one for me, could you please offer a few words explaining what

an unattributed post is?

See the post above yours. Was originally posted without a link, therefore no attribution.

 

However, the post doesn't quote anything in the link or bear any real relationship to the link, therefore, IMHO, remains unattributed and should be deleted again.

 

The link, for what it's worth, is from a dubious source, an American extreme right wing group and the mods could choose to delete it on that basis too.