Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[Grouse]

Just now, vogie said:

What I do think if you are going to be transfering your allegiance to another country, you may well want to tone your insults down or else you may find your new citizenship revoked.

I reserve the right to speak my mind truthfully.

 

However, I do not insult individuals. Yet

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I reserve the right to speak my mind truthfully.

 

However, I do not insult individuals. Yet

If you think insulting en masse is exceptable, it really says a lot about you.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Thank you for bringing this petition to my attention.

 

I rarely bother with petitions, but as it had been brought to my notice, I thought I'd try.

 

I received ONLY this response - after trying to register my vote (and being told that I would receive an email message to confirm my vote was genuine):-…...

…….What the hell is going on here???!

I've deleted the scam email from the quote of your post, for obvious reasons.

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

If others trying to register vote on the petition are receiving the same response, it's hardly suprising that many of those trying to sign the petition - give up!

I have no idea why you got that scam email rather than the one from the petitions site.

 

I have signed several petitions in the last few days, and have always received the correct confirmation email.

 

For example: 

Quote

Click this link to sign the petition "Hold a second referendum on EU membership."

(link removed as it wont work for anyone else, you need to go to the site and sign it yourself)

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

I believe British citizens can sign even if they are not UK residents.

 

I'm no IT expert, far from it, but maybe you've got a virus of some kind?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Be fair. It's going to be very expensive to upgrade the Mausers and the Panzers they are currently using. 

I can quite understand the laughter

 

Panzer IS the German word for a tank

 

Mausers are German pistols

 

My point is that we don't really WANT Germany building thousands of tanks to park on your lawn or anyone else's

 

Trump might like to know that the main gun on an Abrams is made by Reinmetall (probably out of Rhein metal for all I know)

 

Enough, point made

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you think insulting en masse is exceptable, it really says a lot about you.

Dear Vogie, I don't wish to get into a verbal scrap with anyone, least of all you!

 

I do think Brexit is a moronic idea and I do believe that many of those still pushing for that are best described as moronic. I don't know of a more apposite or more empathetic word to use now? Misguided maybe? The ramifications have all been explained but still people vote for self harm. Did you see the documentary on Swindon with all the Honda workers still voting for redundancy? Or the Question Time from Derby (Toyota and RR). What other conclusion should one draw?

 

Back to topic

[7by7]

27 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Verhofstadt was going all Mussolini about it a few days ago but I can't be bothered looking for the clip. 

 OK, so that makes three people.

32 minutes ago, nontabury said:

  Yes,I could supply you with many examples. However with your closed mind, I would be wasting my time.

Do you accuse everyone who disagrees with you and expresses a different opinion to yours of having a closed mind? Very strange from someone who keeps going on about Democracy in his posts! Democracy includes the freedom of speech, no matter how much you wish to censor those with whom you disagree.

 

36 minutes ago, nontabury said:

And if you think a signed agreement between Merkel/Macron does not carry any wait, again you are living in denial.

As I said

Quote

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Like the 1952 Treaty establishing the European Defence Community (the Pleven plan) signed in 1952 which collapsed when France declined to ratify it; this plan by Merkel and Macron will need the agreement of and ratification by all member sates in order to come to anything.

 

 

36 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Similarly if you think no meaningful discussion on this subject are not already taking place. 

 That’s how the unelected Bureaucrats in Brussels carry on their deceit of the citizens of Europe.

As already said, even if the EU bureaucrats are discussing it, which you only have your own paranoia as evidence of, a EU army will only come about if all member states agree to it.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

That is the general consensus of many EU countries, the French had a poll about Britain being in the EU, the outcome was not in our favour. The opinion is that we are not allowing the EU to reach its full potential, don't be so selfish grouse, let them go, let them find a worry free life without us.

You must know we are holding them back, if you had any decency at all you would see this and stop thinking of yourself and realise we are nothing but leeches to our EU brethren. We have never fitted in with their values and beliefs, but we need freedom too, we must find our own way in life, we must make decisions for ourselves. When I left the security of my mother at 18, I realised what a wonderfull world I had just discovered, I was flying on my own for the first time. So let's all of us, remainers and brexiteers walk hand in hand together to find our new life together.

 

an aside,

 

but not widely off topic, what I am after is rather pertinent to life inside/outside EU

 

@tebee, look here, as a manufacturer of "thingies" in France you are of course familiar with AFNOR.

and as an experienced hacker you might be able to sort this one

 

@Vogie s last two sentences made me think of this.

 

Back in the previous century, AFNOR had an absolutely smashing and fantastic poster

the poster was intriguing in itself due to delicate colour design and very well made up graphics

 

left side of the poster; people were walking aimlessly back and forth, like drunkards,

falling over, laying on the ground

right side of the poster people were walking straight, upright, hand in hand, with purpose, smiling

Between left and right was a huge brick wall with a hole knocked out, and of course, the sun was to the right

 

main text;

 

Sortie des soussis Entre des normes

 

would you be able to find this one?

 

would be kinda illustrative in the Brexit case

 

has made a profound impression on me, won't ever forget it

 

(I just assume you are familiar with AFNOR, if not just forget it.

 AFNOR? I'd guess smth along the lines of Agence de France normalisation or smth to that effect)

 

 

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Maybe you should never have left!

 

I do think that the best interests of the EU are served by forgetting about this sceptres Isle of morons. But, we are quite likely to turn our country into a land of peasant works run as slaves for Victorian industrialists.

 

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Dear Vogie, I don't wish to get into a verbal scrap with anyone, least of all you!

 

I do think Brexit is a moronic idea and I do believe that many of those still pushing for that are best described as moronic. I don't know of a more apposite or more empathetic word to use now? Misguided maybe? The ramifications have all been explained but still people vote for self harm. Did you see the documentary on Swindon with all the Honda workers still voting for redundancy? Or the Question Time from Derby (Toyota and RR). What other conclusion should one draw?

 

Back to topic

My last word, you said "isles of morons" which would mean to anybody that the people that inhabit these isles are morons, would it not, and have nothing to do with you describing brexit.

 

And "what conclusions should we draw" well I would say it is a long time since the Barons were only allowed to vote in Britain, these days everybody is allowed to vote, even women, who would have thought, thus making our votes just as valuable as yours. I am sorry you were not on the side that submitted as many votes as the other side, but that is democracy for you, despite your interpretation of it.

[7by7]

46 minutes ago, vogie said:

What I do think if you are going to be transfering your allegiance to another country, you may well want to tone your insults down or else you may find your new citizenship revoked.

Does this mean you agree with David Campbell Bannerman and the tactics of those harassing and threatening Remain supporting MPs in the street?

 

The EU is not another country; it is a union of independent countries. Supporting our membership of that union does not make one a traitor, despite what Mr Bannerman, those protestors harassing and threatening MPs and you think.

 

I see Mr. Bannerman is quite happy to still be drawing his MEP salary and allowances, and doubtless will be happy to receive his MEP pension as well. Does that make him a traitor by his own definition, or just a hypocrite?

[Loiner]

One reason being that, unlike you it seems, I live in the UK and therefore will feel the effects of Brexit far more than those ex pats in Thailand.
 
Until and unless the pound drops so low post Brexit that your pension is no longer enough to meet the income requirements for your visa renewal and so you have to come back to the mess of a post Brexit UK!
 
Doom and gloom? Maybe; but more realistic than the cloud cuckoo land, everything will work out for the best nonsense pushed by so many Brexiteers; including Vote.Leave during the actual campaign!

Eyup I thought you were going to ignore me?
Please do.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Eyup I thought you were going to ignore me?
Please do.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

You thought wrong; not an unusual position for you.

 

If you want me to ignore you, then stop posting made up pony as if it were solid fact.

[Loiner]

You thought wrong; not an unusual position for you.
 
If you want me to ignore you, then stop posting made up pony as if it were solid fact.

Told you already: the only facts here are that we won and you lost.

You really are bent out of shape aren’t you me old love?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Told you already: the only facts here are that we won and you lost.

 

A pyrrhic victory though - no one seems to be able to decide what you won

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Nope; 106,771.

 

Ok, I'll concede that it's reached 100,000 but it's slowed down a lot since then. another 13,000+ in the 6 days it has left? Possible, but doubtful.

 

Meanwhile, after running for just 9 days, Hold a second referendum on EU membership.  has reached over 35,000 signatures.

 

Of course, as I said earlier here and also in another topic, these petitions change very little; if anything. But at least the government has to respond if it gets 10,000 signatures and the House has to debate it if it gets to 100,000.

Well let's recap:

 

No deal petition at 106k, that's up 10k in 24 hrs so another 13k in 6 days quite feasible. Already clear of the debate threshold by 6k anyway.

 

Second referendum petition at 35k after 9 days. Average 4k added per day. Still 65k short of debate threshold and needs another xx days to reach it, IF the average rate of added signatures is sustained.

 

Place your bets Ladies and Gentlemen, please!

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Told you already: the only facts here are that we won and you lost.

So why did you feel it necessary to post a long list of lies made up 'facts' about the future of the EU?

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

You really are bent out of shape aren’t you me old love

It's not me posting lies made up 'facts' in a feeble effort to 'prove' a lie non existent point!

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Airbus have always been more than willing to rant about Brexit, even when they aren’t being prodded by the Government. Surely their enthusiasm for relentless remoaning at politically convenient moments can’t be anything to do with the astonishing sum of €64,172,543 Airbus have received from the EU in just the last five years. Almost €13 million of taxpayers money was funnelled their way last year alone. 

 

I heard this yesterday.  So the government did ask Airbus to tell the public how disastrous a no deal would be. Reminds me of when the government asked Obama to tell us we'd be at the "back of the queue" if we leave the EU. That didn't work out well...

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well let's recap:

 

No deal petition at 106k, that's up 10k in 24 hrs so another 13k in 9 days quite feasible. Already clear of the debate threshold by 6k anyway. 

 

Place your bets Ladies and Gentlemen, please!

 

It's had a surge recently, but even so has averaged just 610 signatures a day in it's almost 6 months of existence (6 days left to go, not 9).

 

I doubt that in that 6 days it will reach anywhere near the 134,000 signatures Grant a People's Vote if Parliament rejects the EU Withdrawal Agreement has reached so far; and that's still got 4 months to run! Even though, unlike yours, it reached it's 100,000 target in time to be debated along with a load of other Brexit ones on 14th January. All of which were rejected, both those calling for a no deal Brexit and those calling for another referendum.

 

N>B> it is the petitions committee which debates qualifying petitions; not the full House.

 

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Second referendum petition at 35k after 9 days. Average 4k added per day. Still 65k short of debate threshold and needs another 17 days to reach it, IF the average rate of added signatures is sustained

An average of 4000 per day is a lot better than an average of 610 per day!

 

It may take another 17 days to reach 100,000. But, unlike your preferred petition, it has only been running for 9 days so still has well over 5 months to go! 

 

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Place your bets Ladies and Gentlemen, please!

Bets on what? If you want me to bet that in the first month and a half of it's life the second referendum will have passed the number of signatures the first managed in the whole 6 months of it's life; I'll take that bet!

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, for Europe. She's saying she cant be bothered with the UK anymore. That pleases you?

She says the EU and the UK will quickly make arrangements in all the key areas to prevent the disastrous consequences that remainers are predicting. That is the reality. 

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I heard this yesterday.  So the government did ask Airbus to tell the public how disastrous a no deal would be. Reminds me of when the government asked Obama to tell us we'd be at the "back of the queue" if we leave the EU. That didn't work out well...

So are you saying that because the government asked Airbus for their opinion, Airbus are lying?

 

Any comment on the comments by the Chief Executive of Airbus quoted in the FT article posted by Grouse?

 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I can quite understand the laughter

 

Panzer IS the German word for a tank

 

Mausers are German pistols

 

My point is that we don't really WANT Germany building thousands of tanks to park on your lawn or anyone else's

 

Trump might like to know that the main gun on an Abrams is made by Reinmetall (probably out of Rhein metal for all I know)

 

Enough, point made

Are you suggesting that Germany can't be trusted with weapons? 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Dear Vogie, I don't wish to get into a verbal scrap with anyone, least of all you!

 

I do think Brexit is a moronic idea and I do believe that many of those still pushing for that are best described as moronic. I don't know of a more apposite or more empathetic word to use now? Misguided maybe? The ramifications have all been explained but still people vote for self harm. Did you see the documentary on Swindon with all the Honda workers still voting for redundancy? Or the Question Time from Derby (Toyota and RR). What other conclusion should one draw?

 

Back to topic

I think the QT episode from Derby should tell you exactly what is going on, and I'm surprised that you and others still don't see it. For the British public, the bad feeling about the EU project outweighs any economic considerations. And the people believe in our country's ability to overcome any potential downturn. The majority of people that is. 

[bannork]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think the QT episode from Derby should tell you exactly what is going on, and I'm surprised that you and others still don't see it. For the British public, the bad feeling about the EU project outweighs any economic considerations. And the people believe in our country's ability to overcome any potential downturn. The majority of people that is. 

On what basis do people in the UK believe they can overcome any potential downturn?

Companies leaving the UK, all trade deals with the EU needing to be rewritten with the disadvantage of the UK negotiating alone against a trading bloc. 45% of our external trade at risk, for what?

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Standard issue plea for a losers vote. Because they lost the first time.

am I off,

or does she actually blame Labour for the Tory shortcomings??

 

 

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

She says the EU and the UK will quickly make arrangements in all the key areas to prevent the disastrous consequences that remainers are predicting. That is the reality. 

You miss the point.

 

I don't think we have any leverage with the EU.

 

She is saying, FOR GODS SAKE GO! Go now!

 

We will clean up any local difficulties such as immediate landing rights etc

 

In short, she wants it finished with. Wha'ever! 

[CG1 Blue]

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So are you saying that because the government asked Airbus for their opinion, Airbus are lying?

 

Any comment on the comments by the Chief Executive of Airbus quoted in the FT article posted by Grouse?

 

No, I'm not saying Airbus are lying. They are painting the worst case scenario picture in order to bolster the case for staying in the EU. They receive a lot of financial assistance from the EU, so I don't blame them. 

What I don't like is our government prodding people and companies to say these things, and thinking we won't find out they prodded them. 

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, bannork said:

On what basis do people in the UK believe they can overcome any potential downturn?

Companies leaving the UK, all trade deals with the EU needing to be rewritten with the disadvantage of the UK negotiating alone against a trading bloc. 45% of our external trade at risk, for what?

On the basis that we voted to leave the EU.  

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You miss the point.

 

I don't think we have any leverage with the EU.

 

She is saying, FOR GODS SAKE GO! Go now!

 

We will clean up any local difficulties such as immediate landing rights etc

 

In short, she wants it finished with. Wha'ever! 

I absolutely agree with you that she wants it finished with.  I think we all do!

But the clean up she refers to would prevent difficulties for both sides. 

[bomber]

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Airbus have always been more than willing to rant about Brexit, even when they aren’t being prodded by the Government. Surely their enthusiasm for relentless remoaning at politically convenient moments can’t be anything to do with the astonishing sum of €64,172,543 Airbus have received from the EU in just the last five years. Almost €13 million of taxpayers money was funnelled their way last year alone. 

 

all these huge companies receive money from govts,boeing will probably had more of the US govt,its the way it goes,it wont change brexit or no brexit,maybe after brexit the UK will build its own planes and show the world how great it is,do you know anyone with a trillion pound spare to get the process started,i dont ????

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

am I off,

or does she actually blame Labour for the Tory shortcomings??

 

 

She blames just about everybody for just about everything it seems.

 

A confirmed supporter for a losers vote. i.e a Europhile. 

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think the QT episode from Derby should tell you exactly what is going on, and I'm surprised that you and others still don't see it. For the British public, the bad feeling about the EU project outweighs any economic considerations. And the people believe in our country's ability to overcome any potential downturn. The majority of people that is. 

as and outside EU looker on;

I think that is an honest and plausible argument for Brexit

(adding the dislike of ECJ and rulez being made in Brussels)

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Right way to go? Who knows.