TransferWise Considered Fraudulent By My US Bank

[racyrick]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

So far so good....below is the status of my TW transfer which I funded by USAA Bank Debit (ACH)...that is, TW pulls the money from my bank account via ACH.   

 

Now although it says below TW received my money from USAA within 3 hours it still doesn't show on my USAA ibanking.  But that's the way all my transfers have occurred....it usually a day or  two later before the transaction posts on my USAA ibanking which can give the impression the transfer request has not arrived yet or USAA is delaying in releasing the money, but it's just USAA not showing it even as a "Pending" transaction and instead waiting until the transaction completely settles within the ACH system and then "posting" the transaction.  This can give the impression USAA has not received the transfer request yet or is slowly releasing the funds but it's really just the way their ACH accounting system works.  Every bank is a little different with their accounting system/ibanking.

 

Now it appears the funds will arrive today...and if they do, I bet I will get a SMS from Bangkok Bank at 2:04pm that the transfer posted to my account.  I will then check my Bangkok Bank ibanking and it will show it posted at 2:02pm. I say that because all my previous TW to Bangkok Bank transfers have worked that way....just a few minutes after 2pm I get the funds posted notification. 

 

Now the one TW transfer I did to my Krungsri account that posting notification occur around 1:33pm.

 

Seems TW and its Thailand partner banks of Bangkok Bank, TMB, and Kaiskorn complete the final leg of a TW transfer to a Thai bank in the 1 to 3pm afternoon ballpark.   

 

Yea, I expect the funds will post to my Bangkok Bank account today (or tomorrow) a little after 2pm.  I've found the TW status updates many times are overly optimistic (for advertising purposes) regarding actual, final completion of the transfer.  Past transfers have averaged around 2 days.

 

Remember, TW can only pull money from your account during normal business hours of your bank.

[wgdanson]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

So far so good....below is the status of my TW transfer which I funded by USAA Bank Debit (ACH)...that is, TW pulls the money from my bank account via ACH.   

 

Now although it says below TW received my money from USAA within 3 hours it still doesn't show on my USAA ibanking.  But that's the way all my transfers have occurred....it usually a day or  two later before the transaction posts on my USAA ibanking which can give the impression the transfer request has not arrived yet or USAA is delaying in releasing the money, but it's just USAA not showing it even as a "Pending" transaction and instead waiting until the transaction completely settles within the ACH system and then "posting" the transaction.  This can give the impression USAA has not received the transfer request yet or is slowly releasing the funds but it's really just the way their ACH accounting system works.  Every bank is a little different with their accounting system/ibanking.

 

Now it appears the funds will arrive today...and if they do, I bet I will get a SMS from Bangkok Bank at 2:04pm that the transfer posted to my account.  I will then check my Bangkok Bank ibanking and it will show it posted at 2:02pm. I say that because all my previous TW to Bangkok Bank transfers have worked that way....just a few minutes after 2pm I get the funds posted notification. 

 

Now the one TW transfer I did to my Krungsri account that posting notification occur around 1:33pm.

 

Seems TW and its Thailand partner banks of Bangkok Bank, TMB, and Kaiskorn complete the final leg of a TW transfer to a Thai bank in the 1 to 3pm afternoon ballpark.   

 

Yea, I expect the funds will post to my Bangkok Bank account today (or tomorrow) a little after 2pm.  I've found the TW status updates many times are overly optimistic (for advertising purposes) regarding actual, final completion of the transfer.  Past transfers have averaged around 2 days.

 

Got my last one within 24 hours TW to Bkk Bank. Can't complain at that.

[LucysDad]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

Got my last one within 24 hours TW to Bkk Bank. Can't complain at that.

 

 

+1

[wgdanson]

16 hours ago, rickb said:

Hi Pib,

I have made 3 transfers in the last 3 months using USAA's "Transfer Funds" option on their website.  Previously, I had added the TransferWise account to my list of accounts to transfer money to from USAA.  I guess that makes it an ACH wire transfer, which with USAA is free to a US-based bank.  I've used the same process (before using TW) to send money to BKK Bank NY.  

 

I sent an e-mail to TW this morning and I'm waiting to see their response.  In the meantime, I've read about their Borderless Account and am trying to understand whether I can use an account like that to transfer my US-funds to Thailand.  I'm not sure if the rates are the same as the method I described above.  

Yes, they are the same, in UK anyway.

[Pib]

OK, the TW transfer to my Bangkok Bank account funded by USAA Direct Debit (ACH) posted to my Bangkok Bangkok Bank account a 2:02pm (just like all previous such transfers....and I got the SMS notice at 2:04pm).  Coded as an International Transfer just like the previous ones

 

Total transfer time 19 hrs and 14 minutes.  Looking at my TW account it still says money due to arrive today.  It will take a half or more day for that status to change to completed based on past transfers. 

 

And looking at my USAA account it still does not show the ACH debit hitting my account....just like the TW status says below it can take a while before it actually shows on your bank account....this is due to nature of the ACH system and how each individual bank processes/displays various types of transactions.

 

Anyway, USAA and TW are still getting along fine.  Expect the OP's problem is specific to just him...probably the way he's been "pushing" the money via ACH to TW versus just letting TW "pull" the money from USAA via ACH.

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

I think there is a danger of misinterpreting the O/P's experience here. I don't think his bank is saying 'TransferWise is a fraudulent company'. Rather they are saying that 'Accounts with TransferWise could be used fraudulently'.

 

We all know that nowadays, the western world is taking such matters as money laundering, sanction busting and terrorist funding very seriously and I for one can see that there is the potential for misuse of T/W accounts.

 

Bearing in mind that TransferWise is a British based company, the US authorities may feel that they have less capacity for investigating T/W based activities than they have a US based one.

 

I haven't been in any way disturbed by this article and will continue to use them.

[billd766]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:24 PM, Ahab said:

Never had an issue or heard of an issue with TW prior to this post.

Me neither.

[Pib]

Since the wife hadn't done a TW transfer for about 6 months she also did a transfer from her TW account to ensure it still worked and the transfer was also funded via USAA Bank Debit (ACH) just like my transfer the other day.  She initiated the TW transfer yesterday evening and this transfer just posted to her Bangkok Bank account at 2:08pm...coded International Transfer.  Total transfer time 19 hours 47 minutes.  Yeap, USAA and TW are still getting along at least for me and the better half.

 

Just something unique with the OP's attempted transfer.  As mentioned earlier maybe because it appears he was trying to "push" funding from USAA via ACH to TW versus letting TW do an ACH "pull" of funding from USAA.  Although the OP's push method worked before something apparently changed not allowing it to work anymore.  Recommend he just allow TW to pull the funding via their "Bank Debit (ACH)" method...doing it this way immediately validates/initiates pull of the funding and you don't have to logon USAA ibanking to attempt a push of funding to TW.   

 

Also, the actual debit of my TW transfer from yesterday just appeared on my USAA ibanking a few hours ago...took a few days as normal to appear due to the way the ACH settlement works.  The wife's transfer is still not showing on USAA ibanking, but will about this time tomorrow as the ACH settlement process does its thing.

 

[rickb]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Just something unique with the OP's attempted transfer.  As mentioned earlier maybe because it appears he was trying to "push" funding from USAA via ACH to TW versus letting TW do an ACH "pull" of funding from USAA.  Although the OP's push method worked before something apparently changed not allowing it to work anymore.  Recommend he just allow TW to pull the funding via their "Bank Debit (ACH)" method...doing it this way immediately validates/initiates pull of the funding and you don't have to logon USAA ibanking to attempt a push of funding to TW.   

 

4

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original post.  I guess I never explained how I got into this predicament with USAA.  I had been transferring money each month from USAA to Bangkok Bank NY and having it appear in my BKK Bank account here in Thailand.  But, since that service is going to end at the end of March, I decided to try TW, based on so many peoples' high recommendations.  After making two separate monthly transfers from the US to Thailand using TW, and using the ACH Wire Transfer method from USAA to TW, I happened to notice that my monthly statement from USAA listed "TimeWise" instead of "TransferWise."  Since I wanted to avoid any problems with Thai Immigration when showing them proof of transfer of my pensions/Social Security, I called USAA and asked them to correct the name on the bank statement.  They advised that the only way they could correct the name was to cancel the account on my list of accounts to transfer money to, and then to reinstate it with the correct name.  But, after canceling the "TimeWise" account and trying to reinstate the same account, but with the name "TransferWise," the USAA computer indicated the TW account number I was using was "potentially fraudulent" and, therefore, had to be reviewed by USAA's Fraud Department.  After waiting a week for the review to be completed, when I called USAA back and again tried to reinstate the TW account number on my list of accounts to transfer money to, I was advised by the USAA representative that the Fraud Department had determined the account number to be fraudulent and they would not let me reinstate that account number.  

 

Now, maybe USAA made a mistake during their review.  I know I didn't give them an incorrect account number, so I don't think I'm the cause of the problem.  I just don't have any explanation why they wouldn't accept the TW account number the second time I tried to enter it.  And the USAA representative wouldn't give me any additional explanations.

 

But, based on what Pib has suggested, I will try to have TW "pull" the funds rather than me trying to "push" the funds from USAA.  I assume you are suggesting I use my USAA Debit card to have TW pull the money.  I'm going to give TW a call in the next few minutes and see how I set that up.

 

Again, thanks to Pib especially for reviewing my problem and suggesting I have TW "pull" the money.  That sounds like a very workable solution.

Edited January 31, 2019 by rickb

[lopburi3]

13 minutes ago, rickb said:

I assume you are suggesting I use my USAA Debit card to have TW pull the money.  I'm going to give TW a call in the next few minutes and see how I set that us.

Do not believe that is what he means - just set the account up with transferwise and let transferwise do the pull.  You should not have to call anyone - it is all done online.

[LomSak27]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:25 PM, racyrick said:

I did a test transfer last week using my WF account and no problems.

I did need a pincode to log in to WF on the TW template.

I was able to set it up myself with a double check using their online chat system. I should not say set it up, just verify it could be done, by what method, and that I could start taking larger amounts. YES I did have to have a telephone text number for a Verification ok.  Did 1 K as a Test run and then in December pulled 3K. I'll pull another 3K end of next month.

I'm inherently suspicious of Wells Fargo,  and I monitor my account. That said so far so good.

[kekalot]

banks shouldn't be freaking out.

 

all TransferWise does is accept your money in whichever country you are (normal transfers) and once verified they transfer from their Thai bank account to yours. pretty simple system but smart.

 

used to pay 7$ USD or so to transfer from my bank in US to Bangkok Bank but it took 3 business days (or like 5 if you paid 3$)

TransferWise does it in less than 24 hours.. I usually do my transfers around 9pm and then the next business day around 2pm get it.

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, rickb said:

 

But, based on what Pib has suggested, I will try to have TW "pull" the funds rather than me trying to "push" the funds from USAA.  I assume you are suggesting I use my USAA Debit card to have TW pull the money.  I'm going to give TW a call in the next few minutes and see how I set that up.

 

No.  Do not confuse what Transferwise calls a "Bank Debit (ACH)" with a Debit Card....two different animals.

 

Bank Debit (ACH) is when one bank/financial company (like Transferwise) "pulls/withdrawals" the funds from your account at another bank.  They are able to pull the funds because you authorize it.   It's the reverse of where you setup your USAA to Bangkok Bank ACH transfer link which could also be called "Bank Credit (ACH)...not to be confused with a Credit Card transaction.   

 

Just use the "Bank Debit (ACH)" as shown below to fund the transfer from your USAA account.  When selecting that method a window will pop-up within the Transferwise interface which allows you to log onto your USAA ibanking within the TW interface.  That pop-up is really a secure API used by many banks/financial companies to interface with other financial systems....it's safe...don't' worry about...some people get concerned about entering their banking logon credentials but the pop-up does "not" save that log on info, it's an encrypted process, etc.  It's kinda like paying for an Ebay buy using PayPal...how the Ebay interfaces with PayPal logon screen....you are basically logging onto your PayPal account thru the Ebay interface.  

 

During that brief logon that confirms with TW you are indeed the owner of the USAA account and authorizes them to pull the funds...that is, the Bank Debit (ACH) transaction.   After you do this a few times a pop-up window to fund the transfer may not even appear and your previous logons has created an ACH transfer link within your TW setup which speeds up the funding process...doesn't require a logon to USAA. 

 

Like my transfer the other day it didn't require me to logon to my USAA account....TW just asked if the USAA account is the funding source, I said yes, for a second or two it did something, and then said I'm good to go...funding on the way.  Now previous times it asked me to logon.  And when my wife initiated her transfer the other day, TW required her to logon to her USAA account 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Pib

[Pib]

Info on "Bank Debit (ACH)" funding method...definitely the cheapest method...a couple of TW info weblinks.  Depending on your bank one of two methods will be used...either logging onto your bank account thru the TW interface method or use of trial/micro deposits method. 

 

I don't think you will be able to pick which method you want to use...it will depend on the bank you are using to fund the transfer.  Depends on whether your bank and TW both use a certain financial API which allows them to communicate directly with each other.   If not, then the trial deposit setup method will be used to establish a transfer link for the current and future transfers.   

 

If TW can directly interface with your bank (i.e., you can logon to your bank acct within the TW interface)

https://transferwise.com/help/article/2912059/us-dollar-transfers/why-do-i-need-to-enter-my-us-online-bank-details

 

If your bank does not directly interface with TW for an ACH transfer link (i.e., must use the trial/micro deposit setup method)

https://transferwise.com/help/article/2729169/us-dollar-transfers/micro-deposits

[jollyhangmon]

2 hours ago, kekalot said:

banks shouldn't be freaking out.

 

all TransferWise does is accept your money in whichever country you are (normal transfers) and once verified they transfer from their Thai bank account to yours. pretty simple system but smart.

 

used to pay 7$ USD or so to transfer from my bank in US to Bangkok Bank but it took 3 business days (or like 5 if you paid 3$)

TransferWise does it in less than 24 hours.. I usually do my transfers around 9pm and then the next business day around 2pm get it.

 

 

Yes, the MO is very much like the old 'Hawala' exchange system in principle   ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala ) ... 

 

But more important difference - besides being faster - should be the considerably better exchange-rate one gets with TW ...

 

 

[Pib]

And that financial "API" I mentioned a few times which allows interface with your bank account via TW is provided by a company called Plaid.   They are a major fintech company with many US bank and financial companies customers.  Many of you probably use their API during some of our US ibanking and don't even know you are using it as it's transparent to you.  Read more about them below.

 

https://plaid.com/

[rickb]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Do not believe that is what he means - just set the account up with transferwise and let transferwise do the pull.  You should not have to call anyone - it is all done online.

I went back into TW, the page where you advise how you are going to pay them, and now I see what you all are talking about.  I've always used "Wire Transfer".  Now I'll try "Bank Debit (ACH)".  Thanks for opening my eyes.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, rickb said:

I went back into TW, the page where you advise how you are going to pay them, and now I see what you all are talking about.  I've always used "Wire Transfer".  Now I'll try "Bank Debit (ACH)".  Thanks for opening my eyes.

And USAA charges $20 for a domestic wire....ouch!!  ACH is a "lot" cheaper.

[Pib]

Some more info on companies/banks Plaid works with.

 

 

 

[Disaantri]

I have a UK (main) and US transferwise accounts for holding / transfering gbp or usd ..... anything sent to the US account needs to titled "TransferWise FBO (my account name)" or it will be lost if solely my account name? That advice came on android app I use.

[rickb]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

And USAA charges $20 for a domestic wire....ouch!!  ACH is a "lot" cheaper.

Pib, actually all my previous wire transfers to TW were free with USAA.  But, that's not the point I want to make.  As I mentioned above to Lopburi3, I will try the Bank Debit (ACH) method tomorrow night after my pensions and Social Security are received in my USAA account.  That should solve my problem with USAA and allow me to continue using TW.

 

I really want to thank you for all of the comments and advice you have given me on this subject.  You have helped me a lot and I really appreciate it.

 

[rickb]

Pib, I just PM'd you with a quick question about Bank Debit (ACH) with TW.  I hope you don't mind my doing that.  Thanks.

[rickb]

Just to close the loop on this topic, I'm happy to report that I tried transferring money with TransferWise using the Bank Debit (ACH) method, rather than using a wire transfer from my bank account to TransferWise.  I initiated the transfer late Thursday night (~9:30 pm) and the money arrived today in my Thai bank account at ~2:00 pm.  So, even though my US bank will not allow me to wire transfer money to TransferWise, I can still use TransferWise by using the Bank Debit method.  I'm happy again!!!

[fcgprg]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:35 PM, richiejom said:

One solution, Send money from your bank to PP then link your Paypal to Transferwise and send the cash from Paypal to TW... I sent money from PP it arrives in about 30 minutes..sometimes sooner

 

My bank is UK and doesn't have any problems sending to TW 

 

Max Levchin Paypal co-founder is a Major shareholder in TransferWise as is Richard Branson

[Pib]

 

For US folks who don't have TW accounts but thinking about getting one, when using TW there are four ways to fund your TW transfer. 

 

- Bank Debit (ACH):  which does "not" mean use of a Debit card...it means you authorize TW to withdraw funds (debit...pull) from your bank account to fund your transfer.   This is a easy, cheap way to fund your transfer....and it's pretty fast.  My last two transfers using this funding method arrived in less than 1 day....less than 20 business hours.  Ex: initiated transfer on a Tuesday...got the money on a Wednesday.  But earlier transfers have taken around 2 business days.   Remember, weekends/holidays don't count as business days....and the ACH system is pretty much a Monday thru Friday transfer system...TW needs to get that funding thru ACH before it will send your funds.

 

- Wire: which means you must send the funds from your bank...you must push the funds from your bank to TW....and most banks have pricey Wire transfer fees.  TW does not send any funds until they get that funding Wire from you. 

 

- Debit Card:  self-explanatory (do not confuse this method with Bank Debit (ACH)...two different animals).

 

- Credit Card: self-explanatory 

 

******************************

https://transferwise.com/help/article/1733397/us-dollar-transfers/transfers-from-usd-bank-debit-ach

Transfers from USD: Bank debit (ACH)

Skip to How to Debit money through Bank Debit (ACH)
Skip to Bank Debit (ACH) features 
 

When you pay by bank debit (ACH), we'll debit money from your bank account once you have authorized the payment through our website. 

Once you've set up a transfer, all you need to do is click on the bank debit payment method, enter in your bank details, log in to your online banking and you're away! This will then set up a one-time debit from your checking account to ours, meaning that these login details will need to be entered each time you make a payment via bank debit.

[sumrit]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:18 PM, Buffy Frobisher said:

So, as is good security practice, I inserted text across my passport scan that it was "For verification by TransferWise only", the text covering just one (alternate) eye in each of two pics, which their system accepted when I uploaded it. Then, when the transfer STILL didn't happen, and after sending more email I was told that I can't put a disclaimer on my passport copy! Why not? It's an accepted practice worldwide, including at other banks, to avoid identity theft.

Just curious, do you add the same security text on a copy of your passport you give to Thai Immigration. You say 'It's an accepted practice worldwide, including at other banks, to avoid identity theft' and, according to many posters on this forum, Thai IO's are some of the most corrupt people going?

Edited February 10, 2019 by sumrit

[lungbing]

I always write on a copy of my passport the date and what it's for.

[Sheryl]

I tried to use TW for the first time this week, wasted a full 7 days on it and it was an exercise in frustration from start to finish...and the finish was my giving up after they inexplicably deactivated my account without warning and did not answer emails asking why.

 

This of course after I had entered all my bank and personal details, a fact which has me more than a little nervous.

 

I was trying to pay by ACH.  The first wrinkle (other than a rather protracted period setting it all up as they kept asking me to upload things they had not said would be needed, like pictures of bank statement mailed to my home address etc - I was using my Thai address) was that when I got to the payment page the ACH option was not enabled.  Then began the frustrating process of trying to get help from them. Online chat was "not available" for days, then misfunctioned, emails went unanswered etc. Finally determined that the problem was that there is a limit in the amount that can be transferred that way, which they had not informed of in advance. Also turned out no way to edit the amount so I had to cancel the transfer and start all over.

 

OK, did that, this time with an amount I knew was under the now-revealed threshold. Got to the payment page, selected ACH. My bank was not listed so chose "other", entered bank details. Got a message that they could not link to my account and would have to use the micro credit deposit method and to watch for those deposits. OK.

 

Next day, nothing in my bank account. Day after, still nothing. Day 3, there it was so I went to log in only to find my account "deactivated" by TW.  No notification or explanation.  My identifying documents had already been listed by TW as verified, and can't have been a problem with the bank account info I entered because there the microdeposits are, sitting in my account.

 

Online chat is no help, say they don't deal with this, I have to email. 3 emails so far have gone unanswered.

 

The net result of all this aggravation is that they have my personal and banking data, I was never able to make a single transfer and I am locked out of my account.

 

Needless to say I reverted to a standard SWIFT transfer to get my money and  will never attempt TW again.

 

Oh - and attempt to lodge a complaint with TW got this

https://transferwise.com/questions/help/article/2235393/legal/customer-complaints-procedure

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OK, did that, this time with an amount I knew was under the now-revealed threshold. Got to the payment page, selected ACH. My bank was not listed so chose "other", entered bank details. Got a message that they could not link to my account and would have to use the micro credit deposit method and to watch for those deposits. OK.

As a Brit, I just transfer money from my UK bank account to a TW account online.

They don't need my bank details, just my name and the name of the bank my money comes from.

Even when I gave my bank the wrong number TW account, they still matched the names up and the money arrived (just took 20 minutes longer).

 

Can it really be so different for US citizens?

Edited February 15, 2019 by BritManToo

[Sheryl]

It certainly was for me.

 

They have a list of banks but mine was not among them so I had to check "other" and that is when I was asked for the bank details etc. I don't know what I would have had to supply if mine had been one of the banks listed. But I can't imagine they wouldn't need the bank account number, how else can they identify your account? The same bank could have 2 account holders of the same name. Surely they can't pull money from your account without your having at keast once, initially, given them the account number?!