BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[rott]

40 minutes ago, salavan said:

As I read it in addition to the 800k we will also need to show an income or did I read it wrong

A bit wrong. But for 6 months you NEED an income as well as the 800,00.

 

????

[moto77]

3 minutes ago, ttrd said:

You seems to have forgotten the other side of the coin - the food, the terrorism, the criminality, the unstable leader Duterte with his instant killing of drug dealers, the environmental destruction, earthquakes, typhoons and terrible infrastructure to mention some ....

 

Some truth there, and I used to think like this, but after spending more time there lately, it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

Boracay is AWESOME now. And clean! There is no beach in Thailand that comes close to the combination on offer there. I can explain why if need be, but I'll leave it there for now. 

People are generally easier to relate to--and not only for language reasons. 

The terrorism happens in Thailand too--did you forget about all of the bombings a few years back? Are you sure that won't happen again? 

Duterte is a nut, but the government is stable. It's still a democracy--so far. 

Environmental destruction? Have you taken a whiff of the air in Bangkok? 

Bottom line is there are pros and cons. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

that can be easily verified at the next extension.

 

That would be one way, or they could start demanding that people come back 3 months after to show some kind of proof.

 

My point was, the order seems silent on the method they're planning to use to enforce that.  So it would seem we're both guessing at this point.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[tlandtday]

I think that overstay problem they just concentrated on may have been wasted time with these new guidelines.  This can only lead to more overstays.

[Justin Side]

3 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Nobody can support a family here on less that 100k  a month. I know as I've lived here for 30 years and put my 4 children through decent schools and foreign unis.

Of course they can.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, The Boss said:

How long will it be before those funds are frozen for 6 months.... slippery slope. YOU CANNOT CURE STUPID.

How long until you have to hand it over to Thais completely and will only get it back to cover your funeral costs. 10k baht of them. And you have to hand it over every year. Twice. In a month.

 

The trend of course is clear: They are saying pull your $ into Thailand or leave. That's ok, they can do that, Thais have a long history of upping prices when demand goes down, but don't scream when you find all the people are going elsewhere.

[MrPatrickThai]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

Decades of thai bashing is what's disgusting. Probably 90% of all posts.

It's called karma. To late now and it's always the poor that will suffer the most.

Perhaps farang can now show some respect for their host country. If the hatred continues then expect it back at you.. That's life

This has to be put in a pinned post at the top of these forums!!! 

 

it is absolutely disgusting how these pensioners despise Thailand then are surprised when they are not wanted.

[Orton Rd]

4 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Exactly, these moaners and Thai bashers might now start to believe in Karma. 

 

 

There is no such thing as karma, and if they do read this forum, which I doubt, they are more likely to have taken action due to the smug posts about being able to get extensions under the table than 'Thai bashing'.

[freedomnow]

It will be revised again at 8am tomorrow morning, and another revision of that revision in Breaking News at 5pm.

Hang off for Monday for another amendment, because these guys love their coffee and idle hands and minds need something to do.

[moto77]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Thailand has foreign university? which one?

A foreign university by definition would be one that is outside Thailand. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

What a load of rubbish.

B.S.

 

A lot of Stockholm syndrome going around lately... 

 

[arithai12]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Since they are requiring substantial amount of funds deposited which cannot be spent, big question in my mind is: will they allow it to be in a fixed deposit so at least it gathers more interest?

 

 

Sure, I have mine in a fixed deposit.

The interest will not make you rich, typically 1.5% p.a. before tax, some banks apparently a little more, I have seen 1.9% the other day. But considering that the baht is so strong, in fact I have been earning in practice from the exchange rate.

[Justin Side]

Just now, MrPatrickThai said:

This has to be put in a pinned post at the top of these forums!!! 

 

it is absolutely disgusting how these pensioners despise Thailand then are surprised when they are not wanted.

It is? Oh. Bizzare post.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

Thailand has foreign university? which one?

Could you repeat that in a comprehensible way? Are you talking about International Unis here? One of my sons went to ABAC. My other kids went to Unis in the UK. 

[skatewash]

I have two takeaways from this latest change.

 

1) This makes the 800,000 baht lump sum in the bank method (called the lump sum for short) markedly less attractive and conversely makes the 65,000 baht monthly deposit method (called the monthly deposit for short) more attractive.  

There are three aspects to this:

 

A) Cost of compliance, that is cost of transferring the money into Thailand.

 

Lump Sum:  each year to top up to 800,000 baht (about $10,000) costs $10 Bangkok Bank NY Branch fee + currency conversion fee assessed in Thailand of 500 baht.  Total: $10 + 500 baht = 815 baht (approx.)

Monthly Deposit: each month 65,000 baht (about $2,100) costs $10 SWIFT fee from Vanguard and 500 baht currency conversion fee assessed in Thailand.  Total: 12 ($10 + 500 baht) = $120 + 6000 baht = 8,750 baht (approx.)
 

B) Opportunity cost, that is, the amount of income I forego by having 400,000 here year-round untouched and  400,000 additional here for six-months (3 before application and 3 after).

 

Currently, I earn 1.3% interest in Thailand (Mai Tae Dai savings account at Krungsri Bank), so 7,800 baht per year.  The average return of my investments in the US is 6.4% so that would be 38,400.  
 

So every year I would lose roughly 30,600 baht a year by using the lump sum rather than the monthly deposit.

C) The "can't touch my own money" factor, or as I like to call it the "ick" factor.  I was reluctantly OK with not touching the 800,000 for three months, I'm considerably less so with not touching 400,000 for the whole year and an additonal 400,000 for half the year.

 

Lump Sum:  400,000 baht for the whole year and 400,000 baht additional for six-months.

 

Monthly Deposit:  there's none of my money I can't touch.

So, looking at those three considerations (A,B,C) the Lump Sum method would "cost" me almost an additional 30,000 (approx.) baht a year plus it comes with a big "ick" factor, that being the constraint about not using my own money for whatever I want to do.

Under the assumptions above the monthly deposit method is the clear winner for my situation.  Caveats:  not everyone gets relatively inexpensive $10 SWIFT transfers.  Also, I will probably not make the switch to the monthly deposit method this year as it's too late for me (I go to get my new retirement extension mid-March), but will seriously consider making the switch for next year.

So what does this mean for me?  Well, it means my situation has gotten a little more complicated, the old money-in-the-bank method was really easy by comparison (no muss, no fuss, just one top-up a year).  More administrative work:  making sure the monthly SWIFT transfer occurs every month, making sure it's slightly above 65,000 baht as exchange rates fluctuate.  Gradually over the course of a year money will accumulate in my Thai account because I spend much less than 65,000 baht a month, so perhaps once or twice a year I will simply Dee Money transfer back some of the excess money back to the states and re-invest in Vanguard.

 

What does this mean for Thailand?  Well, it means that I will have less of my money in Thailand.  Before I had near to 800,000 baht in Thailand at all times (more than that during the 3-month seasoning period, and slightly less than that during the rest of the year).  I won't be spending any more or any less than I do now so it has no impact on that.

 

Oh, the second takeaway...

 

2.  I have to investigate much more seriously locations in Central America (Belize, Panama, Ecuador) and Mexico.  Also, take a closer look at Vietnam and Cambodia.  No, this change is not enough to make me leave Thailand but I feel like the proverbial frog in a pot and the water just got warmer.  I don't want to wait for it to be boiling before I jump and I want to jump to a better place when I do.

 

[Naam]

1 minute ago, MrPatrickThai said:

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

that can be easily verified at the next extension.

If 800k is too much for you, you could borrow it for the time required, wouldn't cost that much.

i don't think for the last 15 years we ever had less than 3 million Baht credit balance in our Thai bank account.

next good advice please.

[Wake Up]

Good guys in, bad and broke guys out. 

 

Immigrants should have IMO 25,000 USA dollars worth of baht in savings if they are retired. Or 65 K baht a month. 

 

Doubt seriously the guys screaming they are leaving will be missed. Some exceptions exists but you should not be able to live here if you can’t pay for yourself and any medical bills you may incur. 

 

Not meaning to judge others but this is not your country and they don’t owe you a cheap retired life. Retirement is something you work for and save money for or obtain  a decent retirement pension. 

[Kalasin Jo]

Just now, Kalasin Jo said:

Seems to me absolutely the logical way to police this new requirement. The applicant must on renewal produce passbook/ bank statements for the previous 12 months. If this shows the applicant has not complied, application refused.

Also a 90 day check is not foolproof apart from being tedious to both IO and retiree. If, as I have done for 7 years, you leave the country before a 90 day report is due then that opportunity to verify never happens. It will only happen on annual renewal, unless they are going to start asking at entry points for passbook and bank statements, bank letter dated that day ( which thinking about it as I write you can't update or get if you are out of the country). I'm sure this is the sensible way....but this is Thailand ,so who knows. Until guidance is issued we just don't know.

[Dumbastheycome]

2 hours ago, Aforek said:

And for people who have a fixed deposit with 800000 bahts or more, how does it work ?

on the saving account, according to "and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00 or; ", we must have always  at least  400000 bahts ? 

I would say  yes...the balance of not less than 400,00 will be mandatory in lieu of  any  monthly income.

Realistically any person on an extension by reason of retirement who has  the required  800,000  for an extension renewal simply  could not exist on the  interest of that amount in any  bank account.

Being able to  demonstrate that amount in any accepted  deposit  for 3  months prior  does  not  give  Thai Imm. any indication  of  funds  for  ongoing  living costs. Nor  have they  ever asked.

This  new requirement of a permanent deposit  of  400,000 is  a realistic figure required in the event that any individual that is  deemed  to  contravene  conditions  of extension of stay  has the  reserves  to cover  costs involved  in  compulsory   exit  and  all  reasonable existing financial  liabilities.

Given the current  requirements  for an extension  of  stay is  minimal in real terms I do  not see this as  unreasonable.

I am curious  mostly about  how they will  require  confirming the 400,000.

Perhaps an addition to the next  90 day report?

But the  90  day report  has been  suggested  as  being  eliminated.

So it is   strange  days.

It does  not  cause  me  great concern.

I have had a permanent  deposit  of the 800,000 for  15 years.

Relative to the income that I have  had to  support  my continued stay  makes  that a very small number.

Yet I can see this  will  create  some  big  problems for the many I know who use Agents. 

In that scenario  what  will  each side  find as a  solution?

First thing  to  mind about that is  the  cost !

 

 

If it  don't  rain  there is a good chance you  can  make  hay !

 

[Felt 35]

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than THB 65,000 or;  Do this mean that they who still can get a income letter from their respective embassy can use that as evidence or will they also have to keep 800K in a Thai Bank?

 

Thanks

Felt.

[mlkik]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

this topic is not about cars, so its very off topic and subject to mods intervention , however next time i jump in my old S class. i will make  note of asking my driver of that which you are discussing, i will also ask the wife and daughter if what you say is true in their new cars too

She has a wildtrak pick up and the daughter has a swift, so you might get one out of the three..

They all have round wheels though, that i do know

 

 

 

 

Standard wheels for a car in Thailand for Thai people are indeed round,however for farang they give you a car with square wheels.

When I complained they told me I had to pay extra for round wheels. I was pissed off a bit but agreed to pay the 2 tier pricing system.I am so glad as them square wheels were a bit clunky and <deleted> up my back!

Edited January 31, 2019 by mlkik

[thequietman]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

Decades of thai bashing is what's disgusting. Probably 90% of all posts.

It's called karma. To late now and it's always the poor that will suffer the most.

Perhaps farang can now show some respect for their host country. If the hatred continues then expect it back at you.. That's life

I give the Thai's the respect that they are due - nothing more.

 

To do more would label me a mouse, a weakling and a man with no moral scruples. I am not that man but it appears that you are.

 

Respect is earned, not given and Thailand has not earned that respect and hasn't come close, nor will it, I suspect.

 

I am assuming that you can still pick your balls up at immigration if you ever leave.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

1. the above info doesn't explain how Immigration will conduct the "three months after" verification???

 

 

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

that can be easily verified at the next extension.

 

I'm thinking this might be the way immigration goes.  That is, you get the full 12 month extension, probably sign some doc saying immigration could possibly call you in for a spot check during those 3 months after however that would probably be a rare occurrence.   Instead, to get your "next" 12 month extension they would first confirm you did comply with maintaining the required balance 3 months afterwards for the current extension.  If you met that requirement then they move to the next step of confirming you meet the required income requirement for the next extension such as having the required funds for 2 month already, etc. 

[MrPatrickThai]

A bit unfair for some long-term retirees.

 

What would be better is a Thai exam, to see if they have made any effort to be a valuable member of society. 

[ocddave]

3 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

Of course they can.

Well to be fair, he says he has 4 children, so his idea of family might be bigger than ours.

[david555]

Problem also for those who take ret Ext. but don't stay the whole period in Thailand , now they must stay 3 months after the ext. granted date here if they need to prove the 800 still in bank in person ...this can be inconvenient depending the dates example for those who only stay the wintertime's from Europe or America here in Thailand depending their immigration dates... , really taking freedom of movement  away , the money not such a problem !

Edited January 31, 2019 by david555

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

 

 

I'm thinking this might be the way immigration goes.  That is, you get the full 12 month extension, probably sign some doc saying immigration could possibly call you in for a spot check during those 3 months after however that would probably be a rare occurrence.   Instead, to get your "next" 12 month extension they would first confirm you did comply with maintaining the required balance 3 months afterwards for the current extension.  If you met that requirement then they move to the next step of confirming you meet the required income requirement for the next extension such as having the required funds for 2 month already, etc. 

 

Still guessing....   Some actual detail from Immigration would be nice... but hardly expected...

[moto77]

3 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Could you repeat that in a comprehensible way? Are you talking about International Unis here? One of my sons went to ABAC. My other kids went to Unis in the UK. 

I think he doesn't know that international universities and foreign universities are two different things. 

[Wake Up]

2 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I have two takeaways from this latest change.

 

1) This makes the 800,000 baht lump sum in the bank method (called the lump sum for short) markedly less attractive and conversely makes the 65,000 baht monthly deposit method (called the monthly deposit for short) more attractive.  

There are three aspects to this:

 

A) Cost of compliance, that is cost of transferring the money into Thailand.

 

Lump Sum:  each year to top up to 800,000 baht (about $10,000) costs $10 Bangkok Bank NY Branch fee + currency conversion fee assessed in Thailand of 500 baht.  Total: $10 + 500 baht = 815 baht (approx.)

Monthly Deposit: each month 65,000 baht (about $2,100) costs $10 SWIFT fee from Vanguard and 500 baht currency conversion fee assessed in Thailand.  Total: 12 ($10 + 500 baht) = $120 + 6000 baht = 8,750 baht (approx.)
 

B) Opportunity cost, that is, the amount of income I forego by having 400,000 here year-round untouched and  400,000 additional here for six-months (3 before application and 3 after).

 

Currently, I earn 1.3% interest in Thailand (Mai Tae Dai savings account at Krungsri Bank), so 7,800 baht per year.  The average return of my investments in the US is 6.4% so that would be 38,400.  
 

So every year I would lose roughly 30,600 baht a year by using the lump sum rather than the monthly deposit.

C) The "can't touch my own money" factor, or as I like to call it the "ick" factor.  I was reluctantly OK with not touching the 800,000 for three months, I'm considerably less so with not touching 400,000 for the whole year and an additonal 400,000 for half the year.

 

Lump Sum:  400,000 baht for the whole year and 400,000 baht additional for six-months.

 

Monthly Deposit:  there's none of my money I can't touch.

So, looking at those three considerations (A,B,C) the Lump Sum method would "cost" me almost an additional 30,000 (approx.) baht a year plus it comes with a big "ick" factor, that being the constraint about not using my own money for whatever I want to do.

Under the assumptions above the monthly deposit method is the clear winner for my situation.  Caveats:  not everyone gets relatively inexpensive $10 SWIFT transfers.  Also, I will probably not make the switch to the monthly deposit method this year as it's too late for me (I go to get my new retirement extension mid-March), but will seriously consider making the switch for next year.

So what does this mean for me?  Well, it means my situation has gotten a little more complicated, the old money-in-the-bank method was really easy by comparison (no muss, no fuss, just one top-up a year).  More administrative work:  making sure the monthly SWIFT transfer occurs every month, making sure it's slightly above 65,000 baht as exchange rates fluctuate.  Gradually over the course of a year money will accumulate in my Thai account because I spend much less than 65,000 baht a month, so perhaps once or twice a year I will simply Dee Money transfer back some of the excess money back to the states and re-invest in Vanguard.

 

What does this mean for Thailand?  Well, it means that I will have less of my money in Thailand.  Before I had near to 800,000 baht in Thailand at all times (more than that during the 3-month seasoning period, and slightly less than that during the rest of the year).  I won't be spending any more or any less than I do now so it has no impact on that.

 

Oh, the second takeaway...

 

2.  I have to investigate much more seriously locations in Central America (Belize, Panama, Ecuador) and Mexico.  Also, take a closer look at Vietnam and Cambodia.  No, this change is not enough to make me leave Thailand but I feel like the proverbial frog in a pot and the water just got warmer.  I don't want to wait for it to be boiling before I jump and I want to jump to a better place when I do.

 

Surely you don’t have all your money invested in investments earning 6.4 percent. You have to have some cash for the down times when investments lose money and cash does not earn 6.4 percent annum. 

 

 If you are moving over the “opportunity costs” of 800,000 baht then you should move on. Good luck. ???????? 

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

i don't think for the last 15 years we ever had less than 3 million Baht credit balance in our Thai bank account.

next good advice please.

You need some sound financial advice if that's the case, which I highly doubt ????