New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[Rawairat]

I don’t have to leave but will choose to spend more time elsewhere once my son finishes school in 2 years. Having moved around too many times when I went to school, I wanted my kid to stay at one school. Ended up being 2 but it was his choice. Once he finishes I can and will sell up and go where ever I want. Thailand has made that decision a lot easier.

This will not change the Thai government attitudes any time soon as they won’t be reading this thread.

 

bye

[stanleycoin]

1 hour ago, dallen52 said:

Its the total picture that seems to be missed.

Many have chosen to make Thailand a home.

And also contributed to the economy. 

The partnership they are in.

The families of the partnership. 

The village way of life for many will come to an end.

 

Its ok some saying that if you haven't done the homework and got the funds, then this isn't the place you should be. 

 

But many, like myself have put a hell of a lot of coin into the economy here.

When i was working here.

And now in a long relationship. 

 

I don't drink or smoke, dont frequent the bars, have just got on with trying to live a life here..

Built a family home, helped my partner buy land.

Her daughter through school. 

Her ex took off with another woman when she was pregnant..

We all hear the same stories. 

(No sick buffalo here luckily).

 

Maybe Big Joke sees us all as

Farang ki nok?..

He has just about screwed me..

 

well said. 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Well, now they can use the land to tend to other farangs who will put more into the economy than a mere 40,000 baht per month ????  When you are talking crops every once in a while you have to cull them to make the farm healthy... too many low value crops ????

     Very short-sighted.  The poster is just one of many, many, many that month after month, year after year pump a steady stream of imported money into the economy while also being satisfied with receiving little in the way of services in return.  Maybe it's a 'mere' 40,000 baht in this case but it adds up with all the ex-pats here.  Pretty much free money for Thailand with no expense involved to lure someone new here.  

     So, ok, bigger spending farangs are wanted instead.  But, I wonder how many of them are going to show up.  And stay for years.   A bird in the hand... 

[Ctkong]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

    I think the Chinese numbers are larger than you might think.  As I have said before, the last 3 condos I sold were to Chinese buyers.  Most of the buyers that came to look at the condos were also Chinese.  They have money to buy at the 3.5 MB price point and also the over 10 MB level.  

    My partner and I just bought a getaway condo in a new project in Bangkok.  The project's foreign quota sold out--mostly to Chinese buyers. The other weekend we went to another new Bangkok project to look at the models--almost all the other people going through the models were Chinese. I was the only Caucasian and my partner was the only Thai that we saw.   We've seen the same thing when we visit condo model projects in Pattaya--and not just the huge multi-building One project in south Jomtien Beach that has a Chinese developer partner and seems totally geared to Chinese buyers.  Recent condo sales by several friends have also been to Chinese buyers.  

I agree. My china business friends are mostly upper middle class or upper class . Most have large limousines 3500cc and above .not entry level type . Houses in Shanghai, Beijing  or Wuxi or other large cities are quite extravagant if not opulent. They stayed in 4/5 stars hotels in Chinese friendly areas in Bangkok, pattaya and Phuket when on visiting. Travel in luxury cars with drivers . Backpacking or living on the cheap is definitely not their cup of tea. They enjoy western comfort like everybody else. 

[Ctkong]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Very short-sighted.  The poster is just one of many, many, many that month after month, year after year pump a steady stream of imported money into the economy while also being satisfied with receiving little in the way of services in return.  Maybe it's a 'mere' 40,000 baht in this case but it adds up with all the ex-pats here.  Pretty much free money for Thailand with no expense involved to lure someone new here.  

     So, ok, bigger spending farangs are wanted instead.  But, I wonder how many of them are going to show up.  And stay for years.   A bird in the hand... 

You would be surprised. Thailand has the infrastructure to pamper those with the money to lavish. Thailand is all things to all people. Most people of various income status can blend into whatever is suitable for them. Thailand has come far these 30 years .if you looked at the neighboring countries, Thailand is still the real deal

in terms of variety in food, lodging, entertainment. Others may take some 5/10 years to catch up but you might not have the luxury of time to relocate or enjoy. 

[bkkcanuck8]

16 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Very short-sighted.  The poster is just one of many, many, many that month after month, year after year pump a steady stream of imported money into the economy while also being satisfied with receiving little in the way of services in return.  Maybe it's a 'mere' 40,000 baht in this case but it adds up with all the ex-pats here.  Pretty much free money for Thailand with no expense involved to lure someone new here.  

     So, ok, bigger spending farangs are wanted instead.  But, I wonder how many of them are going to show up.  And stay for years.   A bird in the hand... 

The thing is in the grand scheme of things a few retirees living on 40,000 a month is not going to register much on the economic impact.  For it to make sense policy wise there has to be a reasonable return.  If that was the case they would just eliminate artificial barriers like 50 years of age and every tom dick and harry who wants to reside here but not work would be allowed in (instead of having the Elite Visa stuff). 

[nodomino]

7 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Same as the America (building the wall to keep foreigners out), UK (leaving Europe because people think foreigners are taking their jobs and spreading their religion), and most other countries. LOL.

Foreigners are always subject to the political trade winds of the country they are in.  Has been ever thus..everywhere.  Thailand has not been a place where anti expat sentiment has been ginned-up although most of us are aware that it exists and can be ‘weaponized’ should the Powers that Be decide it would benefit themselves.  Things change. Expats need to keep that in mind. 

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I do that all the time, it's a great opportunity to have a little holiday in other countries.

Which is why I know more about Laos, Philippines, Vietnam, China, Cambodia and Malaysia than many of the other retired posters on this forum.

It's very easy to get stuck in a rut, all the other countries are great (maybe not Laos).

i'm riddled with arthritis so i rather not take a single step,

otherwise i'd be gone already,

not to any country that demands i leave every 3 month tho, and in fact not to any country where i dont get permanent recidency

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

You would be surprised. Thailand has the infrastructure to pamper those with the money to lavish. Thailand is all things to all people. Most people of various income status can blend into whatever is suitable for them. Thailand has come far these 30 years .if you looked at the neighboring countries, Thailand is still the real deal

in terms of variety in food, lodging, entertainment. Others may take some 5/10 years to catch up but you might not have the luxury of time to relocate or enjoy. 

    Thailand can certainly try to attract higher-income ex-pats--nothing--wrong with that.  I just think it's not a good idea to throw out lower-income ex-pats who have been here for years and also contribute to the economy.   I would hope Thailand being "all things to all people" would include a mix of ex-pats, and not just the rich.  After all, someone needs to rent all those 30 square meter condos--and likely the majority of the renters hankering for 30 sqm won't be that rich.

[inThailand]

These changes just accelerate what we have seen for years, expats dying off or leaving, and few new ones replacing them. Thai expats will be extinct dinosaurs soon. 

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, inThailand said:

These changes just accelerate what we have seen for years, expats dying off or leaving, and few new ones replacing them. Thai expats will be extinct dinosaurs soon. 

Never seen a Thai expat in Thailand ????

[Ctkong]

5 hours ago, robsamui said:

Very shortsigted view. I've been living here full-time for 23 years. During this time my income has averaged 40,000 baht per month. I've never had 800,000 baht in the bank. But I've put well over 12 million baht into the Thai economy. 

 

Now I'm taking it to Vietnam, where it's much cheaper, much easier to stay, and foreigners are viewed as a welcome cash-crop right across the board.

If Thailand was a restaurant, then its business plan would be low quality and high-priced, and have no regular locals eating there, only tourists. And in the first low season it would go bust because there was no customer-base to keep it going.

Well it is THEIR country so it is their prerogative to set the rules. It is our duty as expats to comply the best we can. It is best if  special consideration be given to those with Thai families who had settled in Thailand for a certain number of years and uprooting is a considerable hardship both financial and social. I hope the authority concerned would at elast look into such families and deal in a case by case basis. Having said that, part of the blame should be placed upon the shoulders of expats for poor planning because the amount of money is still the same .not increased at all just the period of time the money is to be sitting in the bank. 

Those expats with no thai family dependents are in a better position to vote with their feet . 

[newnative]

22 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The thing is in the grand scheme of things a few retirees living on 40,000 a month is not going to register much on the economic impact.  For it to make sense policy wise there has to be a reasonable return.  If that was the case they would just eliminate artificial barriers like 50 years of age and every tom dick and harry who wants to reside here but not work would be allowed in (instead of having the Elite Visa stuff). 

    Except it's not really 'a few retirees'.  And, it's free money coming in, essentially.  Seems like a reasonable return to me, for a third-world country.  And, no money being spent to get the person to choose Thailand, he's already here.  In the 'grand scheme of things', it's better if you are attracting ex-pats of various income levels to go with the various income levels of housing, restaurants, shops, etc., that are already in place or being built. 

    Usually lost in the shuffle in the debate are all the local, small  merchants that depend on year-round, not rich ex-pats that use their services.  Thailand can try to attract richer ex-pats but I think it's foolish to ignore the lower-income ones already here.

[Ctkong]

6 hours ago, baansgr said:

In most countries that would stand true but toyland afraid not. No matter how "upscale"it may look on the surface, child prostitution, corruption, gun crime, low education level, child labour, animal fighting for gambling, diseases on the increase and a whole list of other things in toy culture that are ingrained and will never change mean it will never be an "upscale" country in the next 100 years. Having a new pick up and iphone on the never never is a farce really

The 800,000 and 400,000 tb ruling had not changed .only the seasoning period was tweaked. Maybe because thailand had come far from a backwater town to become a cosmopolitan city with modern infrastructure, the authority thought that the trade off is reasonable given that the amount is still the same while the expats enjoy a higher level of living in Thailand in terms of accommodation, transport, telecommucation, health,food choices and others. 

[dontoearth]

12 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Where are they going to go to,back home ,Cambodia,or Philippines,

save up a bit more money and the could be back.

regards Worgeordie

   Some YES!  I have had 3 retirement visas and now I am giving up.  I will visit friends on a 30-day exempt for a few dinners and beers and visits maybe once a year.  Before I stayed 7-9 months of the year living in a hotel which catered to the monthly stay of retiree visa holders.  Not a 5-star maybe 3.5 star.  It has a breakfast, dining room, spa and full maid and cleaning and laundry services pool and marble lobby.  A boutique type.    It had more than 20 of its 66 rooms rented on the monthly to faraung on retirement.  It now has zero!  That has got to hurt.

    I am from the USA in cold Chicago.  I can fly down to Mexico (thank god Trump has screwed this up yet) and stay for 6 months of winter FOR NOTHING!  AND WITH NO FORMS BEYOND showing my passport when I land.  And no 90 day report.  They just give you a 6 months tourist stay visa.  FREE!  No paperwork at all!  Warm weather, moderate prices, great food and beer!  Plenty of things to do for the winter.  So you know where I will spend my winter months next year?

     This is a personal decision.  I don't have Thai family!  I don't own property.  I tried twice to get a thai bank account but was thwarted at every turn.  They might have wanted to make that easier for foreign citizens to open Thai bank accounts before they brought forth this new law. 

     I certainly have the resources to stay but the height of the hoops and the endless paperwork made me look elsewhere.  In fact I looked the other day at all my portfolios and retirement and had about 33 million baht of financial resources. And I want those in the USA not in TH.  

     I do have friends that are going to tough out these new regulations.  They have thai family and just can't pick up and leave.  Another that wants to stay owns his own condo and has been here 23 years since retirement.  He admits he can stomach this but if they add more like medical insurance he will return to the USA.  He is has done well in life but like many is not finding Thailand today very competitive with other options he has available.

     These new regulations will weed those of us that are not committed to TH with family or property out of using the retirement visa.  

     Definitely people will leave and definitely less people will come and try for the retirement visa.  

     This has to be what the govt. wanted when they created these new guidelines.  Like the fantasy endless rich people will visit Thailand and shop at Paragon this is another fantasy that everyone will want to maintain large unspendable bank accounts in a thai bank and go thru the endless retirement visa shuffle.  Some will.  And some tourist shop at Paragon but Thailand could not enjoy its huge tourist revenue on the 1% that this would appeal too.  And maybe the 50% they will have left on retirement visas in the next year.

      I am always open to file another retirement visa if they come up with something more streamlined and more in line with all the countries that TH must compete with for the retiree tourist dollar.  Right now they are sinking in all of the reviews far below lots of other good opportunities.  We will see if that happens. 

       I am not angry I am not bitter.  I am not saying I will never visit.  Just saying I will not file anymore retiree visas in TH.  

    

[worgeordie]

6 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

   Some YES!  I have had 3 retirement visas and now I am giving up.  I will visit friends on a 30-day exempt for a few dinners and beers and visits maybe once a year.  Before I stayed 7-9 months of the year living in a hotel which catered to the monthly stay of retiree visa holders.  Not a 5-star maybe 3.5 star.  It has a breakfast, dining room, spa and full maid and cleaning and laundry services pool and marble lobby.  A boutique type.    It had more than 20 of its 66 rooms rented on the monthly to faraung on retirement.  It now has zero!  That has got to hurt.

    I am from the USA in cold Chicago.  I can fly down to Mexico (thank god Trump has screwed this up yet) and stay for 6 months of winter FOR NOTHING!  AND WITH NO FORMS BEYOND showing my passport when I land.  And no 90 day report.  They just give you a 6 months tourist stay visa.  FREE!  No paperwork at all!  Warm weather, moderate prices, great food and beer!  Plenty of things to do for the winter.  So you know where I will spend my winter months next year?

     This is a personal decision.  I don't have Thai family!  I don't own property.  I tried twice to get a thai bank account but was thwarted at every turn.  They might have wanted to make that easier for foreign citizens to open Thai bank accounts before they brought forth this new law. 

     I certainly have the resources to stay but the height of the hoops and the endless paperwork made me look elsewhere.  In fact I looked the other day at all my portfolios and retirement and had about 33 million baht of financial resources. And I want those in the USA not in TH.  

     I do have friends that are going to tough out these new regulations.  They have thai family and just can't pick up and leave.  Another that wants to stay owns his own condo and has been here 23 years since retirement.  He admits he can stomach this but if they add more like medical insurance he will return to the USA.  He is has done well in life but like many is not finding Thailand today very competitive with other options he has available.

     These new regulations will weed those of us that are not committed to TH with family or property out of using the retirement visa.  

     Definitely people will leave and definitely less people will come and try for the retirement visa.  

     This has to be what the govt. wanted when they created these new guidelines.  Like the fantasy endless rich people will visit Thailand and shop at Paragon this is another fantasy that everyone will want to maintain large unspendable bank accounts in a thai bank and go thru the endless retirement visa shuffle.  Some will.  And some tourist shop at Paragon but Thailand could not enjoy its huge tourist revenue on the 1% that this would appeal too.  And maybe the 50% they will have left on retirement visas in the next year.

      I am always open to file another retirement visa if they come up with something more streamlined and more in line with all the countries that TH must compete with for the retiree tourist dollar.  Right now they are sinking in all of the reviews far below lots of other good opportunities.  We will see if that happens. 

       I am not angry I am not bitter.  I am not saying I will never visit.  Just saying I will not file anymore retiree visas in TH.  

    

You should fly direct to Mexico,you'll freeze your arse off if you go to the windy (freezing)city ,good luck.

regards worgeordie

[SteveK]

If you've been working all of youe life in a Western country, 400k should be a paltry amount. It's the price of a budget car in the UK. Plus it isn't "lost" money, you just need to have it in your Thai bank. What's the issue?

[dontoearth]

Just now, worgeordie said:

You should fly direct to Mexico,you'll freeze your arse off if you go to the windy (freezing)city ,good luck.

regards worgeordie

    Thanks.  I have family obligations here in Chicago land.   And have nice condo here for summer.  Big pool, doorman all of that.  I usually start the retirement life the day after Christmas.  Can remember arriving so many times in BKK Dec 27th or so.  This year I had some torn rotator cuff problem and I am staying in town for the medical treatment.

    As the older members of my family that don't travel fade away we may set the family together for July 4th WARM WEATHER and let all the traveling retirees enjoy Thanksgiving and Christmas in warmer spots in the world.

    Thanks again for your warm wishes and yes last week in Chicago was unbelievable.  I did not leave my condo for the week.

    

[brokenbone]

14 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

If you've been working all of youe life in a Western country, 400k should be a paltry amount. It's the price of a budget car in the UK. Plus it isn't "lost" money, you just need to have it in your Thai bank. What's the issue?

what gives you the idea i've been working all my life ?

many here are on retirement based on disability

[SteveK]

4 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

what gives you the idea i've been working all my life ?

many here are on retirement based on disability

I don't want to sound mean, but seriously if you are retired or semi-retired in Thailand with less than 400k to your name, you should be very worried indeed.

 

Thailand is a great place - IF YOU HAVE MONEY. 

 

I'm sure that Thais only tolerate farangs because of the perception that they have money. Once they realise that you are poorer than they are, you better get to the airport while you still can.

[inThailand]

16 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

If you've been working all of youe life in a Western country, 400k should be a paltry amount. It's the price of a budget car in the UK. Plus it isn't "lost" money, you just need to have it in your Thai bank. What's the issue?

They don't have it. If they did this thread would be old news already. 

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

what gives you the idea i've been working all my life ?

many here are on retirement based on disability

    I am waiting for some fall out among the older ex-pats who will keel with that money locked in a Thai bank.  Are we in for a huge rash of go fund me pages as relatives complain the Thai bank won't release the money for final expenses.

     Yes it is the price of  new economy car in most of the western countries and I would think relatives are going to want that money back.  They probably don't want to donate to the thai govt. or thai banking system.  I just don't think this has been thought thru with all the obvious possibilities. 

     Lastly, none of the countries that Thailand competes with the retiree visa dollar demand deposits into their local banks.  

     This might start a trend?  

      Most are predicting a steady drip of retiree tourist visas holder heading elsewhere in the world.

     I think that will be the trend before other countries decide to demand local banking deposits.  

[SteveK]

12 minutes ago, inThailand said:

They don't have it. If they did this thread would be old news already. 

Well this might piss some people off, but if I was in charge of the country, I wouldn't want retirees here who can't even buy a new Toyota Yaris either. It only perpetuates the myth of the cheap charlie etc, when those people would be much better served by their own countries, especially if they were on some kind of disability benefit. What can they offer Thailand if they are crippled and have no money?

 

And in Thailand, if you have nothing to offer, you are an "undesirable", and if it was your country you would probably feel the same. There are no stupid left wing PC policies here. Put the petty amount into a Thai bank account or find somewhere else, like Ecuador or the Philippines.

 

The money won't disappear, you can still access it!

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

...

 

The money won't disappear, you can still access it!

You haven't read the new rules, have you? 

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You haven't read the new rules, have you? 

Yes I have. It's not a fee.

[inThailand]

8 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Well this might piss some people off, but if I was in charge of the country, I wouldn't want retirees here who can't even buy a new Toyota Yaris either. It only perpetuates the myth of the cheap charlie etc, when those people would be much better served by their own countries, especially if they were on some kind of disability benefit. What can they offer Thailand if they are crippled and have no money?

 

And in Thailand, if you have nothing to offer, you are an "undesirable", and if it was your country you would probably feel the same. There are no stupid left wing PC policies here. Put the petty amount into a Thai bank account or find somewhere else, like Ecuador or the Philippines.

 

The money won't disappear, you can still access it!

Yup, some can't handle the truth! 

I don't agree with or like this policy, but <deleted> are you going to do? Very few really want to move to the neighboring slum countries. They are like Mexico, a great place to visit but you don't want to live there. 

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    I am waiting for some fall out among the older ex-pats who will keel with that money locked in a Thai bank.  Are we in for a huge rash of go fund me pages as relatives complain the Thai bank won't release the money for final expenses.

     Yes it is the price of  new economy car in most of the western countries and I would think relatives are going to want that money back.  They probably don't want to donate to the thai govt. or thai banking system.  I just don't think this has been thought thru with all the obvious possibilities. 

     Lastly, none of the countries that Thailand competes with the retiree visa dollar demand deposits into their local banks.  

     This might start a trend?  

      Most are predicting a steady drip of retiree tourist visas holder heading elsewhere in the world.

     I think that will be the trend before other countries decide to demand local banking deposits.  

I call B.S. No nation that actually wants to attract retired expats is going to copy Thailand. Thailand was already known as having a jerk people around system. Now it's on steroids. I realize Thailand doesn't see this as a competition for our residence. But a number of other countries do. New people -- you've been warned. 

[sambum]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rather they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

"Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite"

 

Have to agree - his statement that you quote above shows that he cares not a jot for the problems faced by expats, and the problems that they face, but is prepared to say anything to imply that he does. "Hypocrisy" is one of the most suitable words that springs to mind! 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Yes I have. It's not a fee.

Huh? Did I say it was a fee?

[dontoearth]

QUESTION:

    We did find out earlier that the accounts are not guaranteed for someone depositing foreign currency into a a thai bank account.  Thailand had a financial panic in the late 90's.  I was not here very long at that time my work assignment ended, but it really disrupted their economy for quite a long time.  Almost everyone farung packed up and left where I had been working in Bangkok.  

     Can someone look up and let us know FACTUALLY what happens to a Thai Bank Account held by an expat with a retiree visa when he/she dies?  Where does the money go?  How difficult is it to get back especially if you want it left to relatives abroad.

      Thanks.