New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[ParadiseLost]

15 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

The only good news is that they haven't adjusted for inflation the amount of money involved for at least ten years.

The bad news is the currency rates have made it significantly more expensive for most...

[inThailand]

Just now, ParadiseLost said:

The bad news is the currency rates have made it significantly more for most...

Ain't that the truth! 

 

Isn't the declining exchange rates over the years really at the heart of this matter? 

 

I remember the pound guys laughing all the way to the bar while getting 77 to the Baht. Even the greenback was at 44.

[dontoearth]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Now we get the Ayn Rand lectures. So predictable. So nauseating. How do you know I don't have it or others don't have it? Don't you get how toxic this is, to have our bank accounts monitored all year so going under even ONE baht and we become illegal, even if having lived here for 20 years? 

  Ur wasting valuable typing fingers muscle on this guy.  They never veer from this kind of thinking.

[alex8912]

40 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

I think most posters here can get the money. We are talking about small amounts, even moreso when you consider retirees.

 

People who want to live in Thailand but feel hard done by the new regulations would be better off somewhere else.

Yes it will be Thailand’s gain and Cambodia’s loss. But on another good note there will be less posts about the cashier at 7/11 not giving back the 1 baht change that the poster for “principle “ reasons usually has a melt down over.  Maybe even some over done posters will move on and some fresh posters will come back again. 

[dontoearth]

I wonder when these rules will get out to the thai consulates around the world?  I had always used the 800K method but with money I had in US banks.  One year the consulate wanted the bank statements notarized.  Not possible!  I finally found a nice thai girl studying here in the USA in Chicago working at my local bank branch.  She called and cleared the whole thing in a few minutes.  Evidently, she had to do it many times as the consulate still had the strange request to get bank statements notarized the last time I went for the retirement visa.

I made my decision not to do a retirement visa again but I do want to stay up with the endless immigration changes as two friends are trying to stay in bangkok and keep up with all of this.  Ed is 83 and doing pretty well.  My friend glenn is 76 and not really following all of this at all. His thai family will have to get all of this together for his renewal.

I do think assuming that those of us that are not renewing a retirement visa are penniless scum is definitely an over reach.   I may be scum, but i am really pretty well off! ????

For those in the Ayn Rand free market camp think about this, other retirement destinations are just going to compete better from my winter retirement stay.  There will be winners and losers for that business. 

I do hope someone answers my question about what happens to the bank account when the farang departs Thailand and the earth for good?

There are good and knowledge people on this forum.  I had a visa renewal problem two years ago and one guy knew all about it and was so helpful.  He really knew the regs.  He was so helpful.  Unfortunately, i had to wade thru endless vile responses to find his answer.   I am hoping someone knowledgeable answers my questions.

Since I admit I am scum no need to be rude!

 

 

[SteveK]

Surely even a basic pension for a westerner would be over $1000 a month, and after selling your home you should be sorted. What is the big issue? If you're struggling now it will only be much worse in 5 years so start getting real.

 

If you're coming here to retire with a few thousand dollars and no income, it isn't gonna be pretty.

 

A small family home in a nice area in the UK is £250k or 10 million baht so what the hell is problem with these ex-pats having no money?

[dontoearth]

    There are other types and other ways to use the retirement visa.  I had many friends that used to take 2 or 3 three month vacations a year but they had no interest in leaving their houses and condos in the USA.  A lot of people are not so jaded and unhappy they are chucking out their previous lives behind them!  Most wanted to return for medicare and other benefits they had coming from all the years of pay-in.  Had family friends and work buddies they liked seeing every year.  They just wanted to have less hassle with the other visas offered by the thai.  Many had been doing it since the days of the famous 30 day visa runs on the buses. 

      I am in the same boat.  I would like to stay 6 months or so and would pay decently for some kind of frequent traveler visa.  I don't want to move to TH and live forever.  I have obligations here in the US.  

      Again most people are assuming those that won't put the money in a thai bank don't have it.  That simply isn't true for everyone.  I don't think anyone knows what portion are desperate and what portion are just apprehensive about problems with the deposits later.  The last decades of history have produced dozens of countries that were once fashionable sunny for long term stays countries suddenly nationalizing banks, confiscating land and houses seizing assets of foreigners living there at the time.

      I supplied the consulate with my bank checking account in the USA with over 800K thai baht for currency conversion.  I also submitted proof of retirement and pension.  To be on the safe side I also put my stock brokerage account and mutual fund account and insurance annuity on file with them. I was willing to go that far. Still would do that.  Won't do what they ask for now.

      I see that as meeting them well over half way.

      And again I am not bitter or mad.  I will make a short vacation every year to see old friends.  Just won't stay long enough to need a visa.

 

 

[RichardColeman]

25 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

A small family home in a nice area in the UK is £250k or 10 million baht so what the hell is problem with these ex-pats having no money?

Maybe  - like me - they are not daft enough to sell their only home and buy a house in a country that one day they may not be able to live in or use all their assets up and have to return to the Uk and live in a cardboard box !

[thaicurious]

56 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

The bad news is the currency rates have made it significantly more expensive for most...

US$ to baht currently running at about 31.30.

Average from March 2008 thru today is 32.71.

 

I picked that 11-year average as by exchange charts that seems beginning of US$ settling in after crashing from the bubbly earlier 2000s.

 

Add to that tax paid on withdrawal if using a pretax account to fund Thai bank account, an early hit of an eventual cost.

[fisherd3]

13 hours ago, side said:

What's wrong with having expats who wish to live here provide actual evidence that they have the means to live here, without becoming a burden?

 

The actual amounts of money required by law have not changed unless I missed something. The procedure to prove it has changed somewhat, inasmuch as you have to actually really prove it, rather than swearing on your dog's life to your embassy official that you do have that income coming over.

 

The toys-out-prams tantrum on here that it is all some kind of xenophobic plot to rid the country of all foreigners is laughable. It's simple, when you're in another's house, you respect the rules, you don't cause any trouble.

 

The number of expats living here on retirement or similar is around 100K, that number doesn't move the economic needle much. 

 

On 2/2/2019 at 8:07 AM, Will27 said:

Can you explain a bit more?

 

I've had plenty of dealings with them and it doesn't sound right TBH.

That is farang logic so..................

[kiwikeith]

17 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Where are they going to go to,back home ,Cambodia,or Philippines,

save up a bit more money and the could be back.

regards Worgeordie

I suspect money lending operations to kick in and solve this for many.

However being married to a Thai and having a son to her you would think that things would be easier for expats in similar positions , whom have been in LOS for years and contribute honestly to the Thai economy.

There are always bad apples and these scum seem to flock to Thailand and are quite different from the genuine expats that live here.

 

I Think Big Joke should take a closer look and help to make things easier for, not harder for ,the genuine people which outnumber the scum.

 

The scum should always be deported and never allowed back.

[bkkcanuck8]

2 hours ago, Luckysilk said:

So true, it's sort of depressing.

 

I've always assumed 90% reside here ?

I do, I assume the majority.  The the bulk of the rest are probably regular visitors and then the portion that are left.... likely feel slighted by Thailand and come here to vent ????

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I suspect money lending operations to kick in and solve this for many.

However being married to a Thai and having a son to her you would think that things would be easier for expats in similar positions , whom have been in LOS for years and contribute honestly to the Thai economy.

There are always bad apples and these scum seem to flock to Thailand and are quite different from the genuine expats that live here.

 

I Think Big Joke should take a closer look and help to make things easier for, not harder for ,the genuine people which outnumber the scum.

 

The scum should always be deported and never allowed back.

Sooner or later they will get smart and the money lending operations will have a harder time.  All they need to do is require the financial institutions to report on any account registered as a certain account type (or special account code) and only these accounts can be used for financial verification of immigration requirements... have the reporting done monthly and then spit out any accounts that have suspicious movements (like a large chunk suddenly disappearing). Requirements on who the registered owner is and that it cannot be restricted by 3rd parties...  and you make it difficult for those that move the money in and out over a period of lets say a month.  You also remove that from individual IO to be able to fudge since it is just reported and recorded in the immigration system (not modifiable).

[EdWinDows]

I left alreaddy

[Time Traveller]

17 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Cambodia is a lawless corrupt, brutal place. Go there and you will be treated as a sexual predator or criminal by your home country. Vietanam's shine wears off quickly once you have to deal with the  mind numbing communist bureaucracy and insidious corruption.

I doubt any foreigner that lives in Thailand cares too much about those things. All that is part of the package with Thailand as well.

[stud858]

Chatted to an English chap this morning. He was on his way to airport in evening. Off to Brazil never to return.

That something in the air is getting thicker. 

And I'll consider Spain or Brazil first when my time comes. But for now, I'll see your rudeness and raise you with politeness.

[pattayadgw]

THE CLASH.... ????  SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO NOW 

Darling you got to let me know
Should I stay or should I go?
If you say that you are mine
I'll be here 'til the end of time
So you got to let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

It's always tease, tease, tease
You're happy when I'm on my knees
One day it's fine and next it's black
So if you want me off your back
Well, come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go, there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know

This indecision's bugging me (esta indecisión me molesta)
If you don't want me, set me free (si no me quieres, librarme)
Exactly whom I'm supposed to be (dígame que tengo ser)
Don't you know which clothes even fit me? (sabes que ropa me quedra)
Come on and let me know (me tienes que decir)
Should I cool it or should I blow? (me debo ir o quedarme)

[Destiny1990]

18 hours ago, lipflipper said:

I will take a wait and see approach before cashing in my chips here in Chiang Mai. As usual with Thai Immigration they seem to always have their heads up their collective ars...es. One week it's a new set of financial criteria, the next week it's something different. I tend agree that Thai Government Officials simply don't want us here on a long term basis so they go about putting these ridiculous impediments in our way. I have already begun to look at Phnom Penh as a new place to put down roots, that liberal Business Visa that is available to Expats is a nice change from the B.S. that Thai Immigration put us through. Also Nha Trang in Vietnam is a viable option as a five year Visa is available there. Keep putting money into my Bangkok Bank account every month to simply satisfy some Immigration Official ain't gonna happen.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

PHnom Penh hahaha sorry but that place totally sucks.

I would only consider that city if i would be paid to stay there.

[lamyai3]

53 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I Think Big Joke should take a closer look and help to make things easier for, not harder for ,the genuine people which outnumber the scum.

 

The scum should always be deported and never allowed back.

Is scum a technical term? 

[lamyai3]

40 minutes ago, pattayadgw said:

THE CLASH.... ????  SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO NOW 

Great band - I saw Mick Jones in the 80s in BAD at the Brixton Academy, not long after The Clash disbanded so there were a few old classics like Bank Robber in the set.

Speaking of good music here's a classic BJ tribute song from the same era...

 

[SteveK]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe  - like me - they are not daft enough to sell their only home and buy a house in a country that one day they may not be able to live in or use all their assets up and have to return to the Uk and live in a cardboard box !

Very strange then that you assume most posters on here have assets of tens of millions of baht in their home country and yet come on here to whine that the price of their beer of choice has gone up one baht.

 

If you don't like Thailand, get lost and find another place to live in and stop posting on this forum!

 

I'm sure there are dozens of countries in the world looking for old, bald, fat impotent men complaining because something has gone up in price by 2p. NOT!

[mcambl61]

11 hours ago, Thaidream said:

What is sad is that there are still countries in the World (USA for one) that does not recognize that  medical care is a human right. Instead; Private hospitals only concern is how much they can charge and make a profit. Add in Big Pharma which is in cahoots with the private health industry; Governments and Insurance and you have a lose-lose situation for the sick and disabled.  Healthcare in America is the most costly in the World (not the best) and Thailand private hospitals want to follow that profile. Absolute madness!!

you cannot be refused emergency medical care in the usa, it is against the law. as far as the "medical care is a human right" thing, I guess if you wanted the fuel cost to triple, income taxes raised, a national VAT or GST to added to everything to attempt to try and pay for it, all this wouldn't matter if it was a "human right". All the while ignoring the 200 trillion in future unfunded liabilities and 22 trillion in debt. One thing that is actually feasible is getting the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists out of the pockets of congress to change the rules and get tort reform done to cut down on the malpractice insurance rates, but then the lawyers lobby does not want that.

[JAG]

29 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Is scum a technical term? 

In this context it refers broadly to anyone who has less money than the person who uses the term.

 

Perhaps more accurately, less money than the person using the term wishes the reader to assume he has (remember this is essentially an anonymous forum)!

 

Either way, it demonstrates a revealing lack of empathy for anyone who may be forced to contemplate leaving or leave their homes and family or loved ones by these clumsy regulations. A lack of empathy which often distinguishes those sometimes dismissed as "scum"!

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

If you don't like Thailand, get lost and find another place to live in and stop posting on this forum!

 

I'm sure there are dozens of countries in the world looking for old, bald, fat impotent men complaining

You're on a sticky wicket with this argument - this might easily describe many of the retirees who do qualify for the new requirements...

[Georgie65]

They are biting off there nose, to spite there face!!!! My retirement visa expires on the 27th of March this year... I was lucky enough to get one last US notarized/verified income affidavit before the january 1st deadline, the affidavit is good for 6 months from date of issue, I already talk to my friends at Soi five immigration in Jomtien, and they will accept the affidavit one last time! I'm good till the end of march 2020. Hopefully this bullshit will be straightened out by then? Good luck boy's........ 

[SteveK]

3 minutes ago, Georgie65 said:

They are biting off there nose, to spite there face!!!! My retirement visa expires on the 27th of March this year... I was lucky enough to get one last US notarized/verified income affidavit before the january 1st deadline, the affidavit is good for 6 months from date of issue, I already talk to my friends at Soi five immigration in Jomtien, and they will accept the affidavit one last time! I'm good till the end of march 2020. Hopefully this bullshit will be straightened out by then? Good luck boy's........ 

The authorities are just trying to clean up the country by getting foreigners with no money out. I don't blame them, it'll make the place better for the rest of us.

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, dontoearth said:

   I am always open to file another retirement visa if they come up with something more streamlined and more in line with all the countries that TH must compete with for the retiree tourist dollar.  Right now they are sinking in all of the reviews far below lots of other good opportunities.  We will see if that happens. 

       I am not angry I am not bitter.  I am not saying I will never visit.  Just saying I will not file anymore retiree visas in TH.  

    

As it stands now a retirement visa is good for two years with one exit and entry and no money in the bank.  What is not streamlined about that?  If you live in Chicago after one expires go home and get another.  

 

Did you not realize this? 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

I doubt any foreigner that lives in Thailand cares too much about those things. All that is part of the package with Thailand as well.

I live in Thailand because it is safe and has good healthcare. 

[SteveK]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I live in Thailand because it is safe and has good healthcare. 

Bangkok has great healthcare if you can pay for it without whinging about it because you had to pay.

 

And Thailand in general is safer than many Western countries even moreso if you don't have to come on here and complain about it.

 

????

 

For the rest of you, just go home, stop posting here, or go to Belize.

[gmac]

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I presume that those 'forced out' by the new rules are not able to meet the financial requirements.  If so, I imagine that one argument that the Authorities may make to themselves, is that those people must therefore make a minimal contribution to the economy and therefore would be a minimal loss to Thailand.  The ones I feel for the most, are those who have been here for years, are well settled and  who's income is fixed in some way (small pension, not index linked).  Without capital to back up a small income, those people have been royally shafted by the new rules and the poor exchange rates for many western currencies.   I guess that the Thai authorities do not care a jot for those people and I also guess that it is not their role to care much.  Sad but true.    

They don't care about their own pensioners why would they care about foreigners?