For those who use visa agents ... A heads up.

[notamember]

9 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Wrong. Expats have full control on this system!

If no expats was trying to fraud the system,

there would be no work for agents and they would just disappear.

someone on here suggested that ''legitimate'' agents assemble applications and process applications for those with the necessary funds and will process them by legally bypassing the must appear in person stipulation

personally i thought there was no demand for that kind of service as most people do it themselves, so i asked an agent i know what he thought

he said very few asked him to do that unless they were disabled etc

he has a phrase he uses in emails when declining that kind of hand holding service 

so i asked him could he search in his outbound mail file for that service during 2018

so he set it to search for the phrase in the content in the email and the

results were that out of 6671 sent emails, only 16 included the phrase to decline that service

so in the absence of any market for ''legitimate'' agents that the other fellow referred to and a sample from a busy agents 2018 records then

i would have to concede to pattaya46's assertion that agents would fade away from lack of business

Edited February 5, 2019 by notamember

[notamember]

45 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

What on earth does 'oop' mean?

 

 

commonly used by Thais, ''up to you'' or ''oop to you'' meaning  you decide

I cannot believe i am having to explain this on Thai Visa

we will be debating best sausages or breakfast next

[notamember]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I'm not aware of any Brit who lied to the embassy. Not easy. All the Brits that I know, who couldn't prove the 65k baht monthly income or have 800k baht in a Thai bank, used the agency route.

Barry Kenyon used to joke about so many obvious fakes he had seen over the years, maybe it will get into his memoir 

[ozmeldo]

Online applications

 

Straightens the mess out immediately.

 

[balo]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

what time ?

If you skip the breakfast buffet, admission is 120 baht , I think it starts around 11 AM. 

 

[Mister Fixit]

21 minutes ago, notamember said:

commonly used by Thais, ''up to you'' or ''oop to you'' meaning  you decide

I cannot believe i am having to explain this on Thai Visa

we will be debating best sausages or breakfast next

You obviously didn't read my post upthread (# 182)  where I said I realised that it was written as 'oop' instead of 'up' possibly because the poster is from Yorkshire.  I thought it was some Thaivisa buzzword I hadn't come across at first because of the spelling.  

 

But after 15 years here, I did know what 'up to you' meant here within about the first week of arriving.  I think it was when I asked how much and she replied 'up to you' so I did a runner!  ????  ????

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Mister Fixit

[Mister Fixit]

15 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Online applications

 

Straightens the mess out immediately.

 

Someone hasn't quite grasped the thrust of the OP, have they?

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I  can understand that in the short term Agents may get past the initial stage of providing "evidence" of the 800.000 but in the longer term how to provide evidence of a permanent deposit of  400,000.

The current evidence of 800K requires 3 mo seasoning, but that is not checked (or faked, or waived, or something) for agent-applications.  One would assume the 400K year-round + 800K for 5-months will be worked-around the same way.

[Mister Fixit]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The current evidence of 800K requires 3 mo seasoning, but that is not checked (or faked, or waived, or something) for agent-applications.  One would assume the 400K year-round + 800K for 5-months will be worked-around the same way.

The only way I can think of showing the full 800k for the first 3 months is that whoever is making his first 90 day report will have to bring the same bank book in which was used to make the original app.  

 

However, as someone pointed out upthread, there's no guarantee that the IO who does the 90 day will be the same one who approved the extension so I can see a rise of people using an agent to take the passport in for the 90 day instead of doing it himself.  They'd be the people to know who it was best to approach.  

 

The other option is to risk it and not bother doing the 90 day.  

[JackThompson]

42 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

The only way I can think of showing the full 800k for the first 3 months is that whoever is making his first 90 day report will have to bring the same bank book in which was used to make the original app.  

 

However, as someone pointed out upthread, there's no guarantee that the IO who does the 90 day will be the same one who approved the extension so I can see a rise of people using an agent to take the passport in for the 90 day instead of doing it himself.  They'd be the people to know who it was best to approach.  

 

The other option is to risk it and not bother doing the 90 day.  

We have no idea if 90-day reporting will be connected to bank-balance checks - but agents do offer a 90-day reporting service, which could become part of whatever new package-deal is rolled-out.

[roger buttmore]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

We have no idea if 90-day reporting will be connected to bank-balance checks - but agents do offer a 90-day reporting service, which could become part of whatever new package-deal is rolled-out.

 

It hasn't as yet been explained, but I suspect the 'verification of funds' will form part of the following year's application process to extend further. Where applicants are required to show a complete year's worth of necessary funding of B65k p.m., or the relevant B800k seasoning and minimum B400k.

 

Apparently, leniency will be applied as a one-off for the first renewal under the new changes.

This is an extract from an Immigration Bureau Memorandum, dated 4 Jan 2019:

 

" .. since this is a new rule, some of the aliens are not able to prepare to provide such evidences, therefore, to mitigate the adverse impact among them, from 1 January - 31 December 2019, immigration officers shall proceed as follows:

 

1. Regarding the retirement case where the income (pension) is transferred after retirement year, the bank deposit and bank statement from Thai bank showing monthly transfer to the applicant's account may not cover 12 month-period, the officer shall consider the case based on relevant laws and regulations mutatis mutandis.

 

2. Inform aliens as prescribed in 1. that: the next visa extension application must be supported with complete sets of documents as aforementioned. Then record the evidence that the officer has informed the applicant."

 

Compulsory medical insurance will be next, so it isn't over yet.

[offset]

59 minutes ago, Mister Fixit said:

The only way I can think of showing the full 800k for the first 3 months is that whoever is making his first 90 day report will have to bring the same bank book in which was used to make the original app.  

 

However, as someone pointed out upthread, there's no guarantee that the IO who does the 90 day will be the same one who approved the extension so I can see a rise of people using an agent to take the passport in for the 90 day instead of doing it himself.  They'd be the people to know who it was best to approach.  

 

The other option is to risk it and not bother doing the 90 day.  

Problem my 90 day report is only 6 weeks after my extension was granted because they did not update my 90 day when I did my extension but that could be sorted if the did both at the same time 

[Jumbo1968]

Just now, offset said:

Problem my 90 day report is only 6 weeks after my extension was granted because they did not update my 90 day when I did my extension but that could be sorted if the did both at the same time 

Whilst I live here I come and go before 90 Days so I never do a 90 Day Report, how are they going to check up on me ?

[rott]

32 minutes ago, offset said:

Problem my 90 day report is only 6 weeks after my extension was granted because they did not update my 90 day when I did my extension but that could be sorted if the did both at the same time 

The 90 day report is not related to the date of the extension.

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, roger buttmore said:

 

It hasn't as yet been explained, but I suspect the 'verification of funds' will form part of the following year's application process to extend further. Where applicants are required to show a complete year's worth of necessary funding of B65k p.m., or the relevant B800k seasoning and minimum B400k.

 

Apparently, leniency will be applied as a one-off for the first renewal under the new changes.

This is an extract from an Immigration Bureau Memorandum, dated 4 Jan 2019:

 

" .. since this is a new rule, some of the aliens are not able to prepare to provide such evidences, ..

That's the new "income based extensions" rule-set.  Issued just before the new "in the bank money" rule-changes.  The agents typically use "in the bank" money (with no seasoning needed for their applications) - though that could change.  In/out money every month via-agent is a potential service they might offer.

 

35 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Whilst I live here I come and go before 90 Days so I never do a 90 Day Report, how are they going to check up on me ?

We don't know if the two will be connected, or some other method of "in the bank money" verification will be used - either periodically, or upon applying in the subsequent year.

Edited February 5, 2019 by JackThompson

[offset]

9 minutes ago, rott said:

The 90 day report is not related to the date of the extension.

I understand that I was just pointing out the problem and a solution 

[Jingthing]

 
It hasn't as yet been explained, but I suspect the 'verification of funds' will form part of the following year's application process to extend further. Where applicants are required to show a complete year's worth of necessary funding of B65k p.m., or the relevant B800k seasoning and minimum B400k.
 
Apparently, leniency will be applied as a one-off for the first renewal under the new changes.
This is an extract from an Immigration Bureau Memorandum, dated 4 Jan 2019:
 
" .. since this is a new rule, some of the aliens are not able to prepare to provide such evidences, therefore, to mitigate the adverse impact among them, from 1 January - 31 December 2019, immigration officers shall proceed as follows:
 
1. Regarding the retirement case where the income (pension) is transferred after retirement year, the bank deposit and bank statement from Thai bank showing monthly transfer to the applicant's account may not cover 12 month-period, the officer shall consider the case based on relevant laws and regulations mutatis mutandis.
 
2. Inform aliens as prescribed in 1. that: the next visa extension application must be supported with complete sets of documents as aforementioned. Then record the evidence that the officer has informed the applicant."
 
Compulsory medical insurance will be next, so it isn't over yet.

That memo had nothing to do with the bank method. It was about the income method without embassy letter.

You have no idea how the new seasoning on steroids will be enforced.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[seasia]

11 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

❤️❤️ Can't you just feel the love from some posters on here ❤️❤️

 

Many appear to have Rooster syndrome, the 'I'm alright Jack attitude', not in the slightest concerned for the plight of some of their fellow human beings, I just hope that some of this brigade get the 'Really difficult day' in an immigration office as many of us have, no matter how whiter than white their application is (as mine have been before) and get chucked out on their ear, no matter how many Gazillions of Baht they have in the bank.

 

Some of you, yes you know who I'm talking to, really need to read some of the horror stories that have been published and then you might get the full picture, just wait, it could be your bubble that gets burst next X X X 

Very well said, one of the best posts on the thread.

I happen to be OK ( I think ) until Jan next year, after that do not know.

Have a Plan B already in place. Somewhat tired of living here.

Not married to a Thai albeit in a LT relationship with one. No property owned here,abroad yes.

 

I feel sorry for some that have invested here( in terms of buying a property, paid for education for those they love etc.) and in emotion ) and wish to live a simple modest life.

Those with Thai family who are worried they might have to leave or cannot meet requirements to stay.

A shame.

Plenty of selfish posters who care not of others.

 

Sadly that seems to be the way of the modern world.

 

 

[Chivas]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:32 AM, darksidedog said:

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

What big joke as you call him needs to do then is simply raid these agents offices and ensure every application that hasnt been done by the book is identified and the passport holder banned for life from Thailand with in addition 5 year sentences for the agents

That will have the desired effect within 24 hours.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Chivas

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Chivas said:

What big joke as you call him needs to do then is simply raid these agents offices and ensuring every application that hasnt been done by the book is identified and the passport holder banned then for life from Thailand with in addition 5 year sentences for the agents

That will have the desired effect within 24 hours.

Of course! But it's getting more clear now, the conspiracy theory promoters were on to something. The announced reason for these new onerous rules doesn't really seem to be about getting the cheaters which would include the entire food chain of mass corruption. The effect instead is punishing the compliers. It's basically upside down. I'm not promoting banning people that have used agents, I have sympathy for them actually. But look what's happened as a result of this mass corruption. Not an improvement for sure. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, seasia said:

I feel sorry for some that have invested here( in terms of buying a property, paid for education for those they love etc.) and in emotion ) and wish to live a simple modest life.

Those with Thai family who are worried they might have to leave or cannot meet requirements to stay.

A shame.

Plenty of selfish posters who care not of others.

So what is a "caring" person supposed to do? Offer these persons low-interest loans to pay (per this topic) their agent fees?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

I have seen no sympathy in your posts for the legal expats who, possibly due to the actions of people like you, will no longer be able to stay because of the new requirements. All I see is me,me,me.

Are you mistaking me for another poster? I have always used a British Embassy letter to apply for my visa extensions, providing my annual tax return, payslip and 3 months bank statements (all originals) to the British Embassy. Now, I transfer 70k baht monthly from my UK account to my Thai account and have made 1m baht available, should I need it to deposit in My Thai Bank account at least 2 months before my extension is due. When it comes to ensuring my continued stay in Thailand, I do everything by the book, belt and braces.

 

However, as someone who is raising a family here, I have complete empathy with those who aren't quite as fortunate as me. It must be very worrying for those, like me, supporting a family here and not knowing if they might have no choice but to split the family up. I make no apologies for that.

 

The current situation was created by one party only, the embassies. Explain why only 4 embassies, out of goodness knows how many, have chosen to deprive their citizens of the facility of the embassy income letter.

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

There are many of us here who don't fulfil the financial requirements but need to resort to agents - I'd say well into the many thousands and perhaps more than those who have the 800k.

I always worried that forking out 20-25,000 baht each year, when already capital poor, was a bit like borrowing on your credit card and ultimately running out of options. But hey, if you get 32 years out of it and avoid the irritation of those visits to immigration, maybe it makes good sense.

[marcusarelus]

17 hours ago, Spidey said:

I've met Darren. Very nice, helpful guy. I would recommend him to anyone, and have done via PMs recently.

 

A year ago, I renewed my passport, whilst in the UK. When I returned, I went to Jontien IO to have my stamps transferred. I was told by the IO that I needed a form, signed by the Vice Consul, at the British Embassy, Bangkok, to confirm that my passport was valid. He gave me a copy of the form required. It was immediately obvious that the form didn't apply to me as I had the old passport with me and the form mainly applied to lost/stolen passports. Not for people who had both passports with them.

 

I argued the toss with the IO and told him that it was ridiculous to expect me to write to the BE and pay them to send me the letter as it was completely unnecessary.

 

The IO leant into me and said, "Go to Key Visa.". I did so, walked into the office and explained to the girl my problem. Without saying a word, she opened her desk drawer, produced a photocopy of the form, complete with a photocopy of the Vice Consul's signature. She then asked me for 150 baht.

 

On returning to Jontien, I handed the form to the IO and asked him to help me fill it in as I didn't really understand it (no surprise really as it didn't apply to me). He took the form and said, "no need to fill it in". I hadn't even put my name on it.

 

The next day I collected my passport, complete with stamps.

 

The whole episode was a complete scam, worked between Key Visa and the IO. Key Visa work very closely with Jontien IO and would highly recommend them for a dodgy visa.

When I renewed my passport in Thailand my embassy automatically gave me the form which is a request to Immigration to transfer the stamps from old passport.  It was your mistake for not knowing the form was necessary.  It's been posted on TV a number of time the IO was correct and you were in error.  The form did apply to you.  It applies to anyone who gets a new passport with stamps in the old one.  

Edited February 6, 2019 by marcusarelus

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

We have no idea if 90-day reporting will be connected to bank-balance checks - but agents do offer a 90-day reporting service, which could become part of whatever new package-deal is rolled-out.

And how would this be integrated into online reporting? 

Likely it would become redundant.

Yes if agents do it, or you do it personally, then it might work. Take in your recently updated book, along with copies. 

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

When I renewed my passport in Thailand my embassy automatically gave me the form which is a request to Immigration to transfer the stamps from old passport.  It was your mistake for not knowing the form was necessary.  It's been posted on TV a number of time the IO was correct and you were in error.  The form did apply to you.  It applies to anyone who gets a new passport with stamps in the old one.  

Thanks for confirming my assertions. Look at the section ending in lost/stolen/damaged/ cancelled.

 

No option for renewed out of date passport or, as in my case, simply ran out of pages. It only applies to those who no longer have their original passport.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Look at the section ending in lost/stolen/damaged/ cancelled.

Passports are cancelled when a new passport is issued so it really does not support your previous statement.

It does not matter what happened with your old passport immigration will want the letter from the embassy.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Passports are cancelled when a new passport is issued so it really does not support your previous statement.

It does not matter what happened with your old passport immigration will want the letter from the embassy.

And it's OK to get a photocopy of the vice consul's signature from a local visa agent?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

And it's OK to get a photocopy of the vice consul's signature from a local visa agent?

That is what is handed out a at Trendy when a new passport is issued and I was not responding to that comment you made earlier.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is what is handed out a at Trendy when a new passport is issued and I was not responding to that comment you made earlier.

I renewed my passport in the UK. Was completely unaware of any requirement for the form.