Retirement 800k/400k

[tgeezer]

I don’t know what the interest difference in longer term deposits amounts to but I doubt that it is worth the hassle. It is impossible to say for sure what proof would be required in individual cases but the more complicated the proof the longer the checking process will take. A fixed deposit is undeniably the easiest for all concerned provided Immigration forgets that financial status is designed to prevent illegal employment.



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[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, billybog said:

I agree....but...why should Thai banks have 400,000 to 800,000 of your money to use basically freely?  there should be something other than this to secure a permanent...yearly visa.

Suggesting alternatives is interesting but not practical, we have the requirement laid before us, not the details of exactly how it would be enforced. I doubt the banks were behind these changes.

 

[smotherb]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Hey it's not all bad, instead of drinking a cup of hot cocoa and sleeping with a 60yo Brit woman, I've been forced to drink beer Chang and sleep with an assortment of 30 year old Thai ladies.

Yeah, that is the bright side. I lost over half my retirement too. However, I can blame no one but myself.  So, I live with it and enjoy myself.  

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The only potential exception could be covered by an "emergency medical only" insurance plan, which could include buying a one-way air-ticket back to the foreigner's passport-country. 

This sounds more onerous than keeping money in the bank, and certainly more risky than seeking treatment locally. 

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Henryford said:

Exactly, 65,000 baht a month net is actually quite a large figure which equates to about 24,000 GBP a year gross. Many people in the UK don't earn that working full time yet they manage to live. It should be easy peasy to live in Thailand on that, especially if you own your own property.

Check your maths at 40 baht/pound.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Check your maths at 40 baht/pound.

He said 'net' not 'gross', check your comprehension.

When working 24k - 10% NI payments -10% tax  - expenses = ??????

Edited February 9, 2019 by BritManToo

[wisperone]

They want you to keep as much money in the bank, so when you die, there is a larger money grab. Many retirees with no successors...and if there are, how do they go about repatriating the retirees bank funds. Even if the successors/heirs did know about it, it probably is not worth the effort to try and get it back. More funds in the Thai coffers.

 

Did a stop over in BKK this week in my travels, and noticed how much the exchange rate has dropped on the US dollar since being there last in December. 

[Henryford]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Check your maths at 40 baht/pound.

I think my maths are correct. 65000 at 40 = 1625 GBP a month = 19500 GBP a year NET. You would need a GROSS salary of @24000 to get 19500 net of tax/NI etc. The Thai authorities are using receipts as "income" which can only mean net income not gross income.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Henryford

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

He said 'net' not 'gross', check your comprehension.

Net of what, you mean he is presenting pre-tax numbers? Pedantic and sensationalism. Why not claim the highest bracket.

I worked in the Middle East so a different perspective.

Edited February 9, 2019 by jacko45k

[a977]

54 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Hey it's not all bad, instead of drinking a cup of hot cocoa and sleeping with a 60yo Brit woman, I've been forced to drink beer Chang and sleep with an assortment of 30 year old Thai ladies.

Ah! yes it's a tough life but I suppose some of us have to do it.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, a977 said:

Ah! yes it's a tough life but I suppose some of us have to do it.

Never, never, never, there are alternatives...... a Heiny or SML!

[jesimps]

8 hours ago, smotherb said:

Well, I really hate to say it, but you are wrong. I am a retiree and I agree with what murraynz says.

 

I doubt many posters could argue with the fact that at retirement you need to have some cash as well as some income. B800k is not a great amount--< USD26k, <GBP20k. Anyone retiring in their home-countries with only that piddling amount would hardly be living well. 

 

However, I do understand that some retirees simply do not have the required income or the ready cash to satisfy Thai retirement laws. If that is the case; you really need to start considering another place to live. 

Took a while to appear, but here's the first "If you don't like you should leave" reply to the thread. Incidentally, it has nothing to do with the thread in hand, just someone wanting to be smug.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, smotherb said:

Well, I really hate to say it, but you are wrong. I am a retiree and I agree with what murraynz says.

 

I doubt many posters could argue with the fact that at retirement you need to have some cash as well as some income. B800k is not a great amount--< USD26k, <GBP20k. Anyone retiring in their home-countries with only that piddling amount would hardly be living well. 

 

However, I do understand that some retirees simply do not have the required income or the ready cash to satisfy Thai retirement laws. If that is the case; you really need to start considering another place to live. 

You are well in the minority here, just look at the likes, you obviously look down on the guys who are not as well off financially as you. 

There are lots of guys here with well under the finances required who do well here, you know the type who don't spend most of the time frequenting drinking establishments. You are so selfish you only think about yourself, and by the way, I do have the finances that are required to stay here, I just prefer to keep the biggest majority of my money back in the UK.

[ubonjoe]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

This sounds more onerous than keeping money in the bank, and certainly more risky than seeking treatment locally. 

If you can afford local-treatment - either cash or insurance - then you could do that, of course.  I I suggest would only be a fallback-plan for people who have no means to pay - to ensure Thailand could never be "on the hook" for foreigner's emergency medical costs. 

They are not currently on the hook for ongoing-treatment costs - if you don't pay, you don't get any.  But someone showing up dying would presumably not be left to die.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 2/8/2019 at 9:15 AM, Michaelaway said:

OK, THANK YOU, GOT IT:

(Siam Legal) Qualifications:

 

• Applicant must be 50 years of age or over

   

• Must meet any of the financial requirements:

   

1.   Security deposit of THB 800,000 in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to the visa application

 

 

 

I understood it to mean 800,000 2 months before the Visa application and 3 months after, but assumed it still meant 3 months prior to extension and 3 months after, with a minimum of 400,000 being maintained throughout.

[owl sees all]

 

In my circle of farang friends, about half DO NOT have 400K in the bank or have 40K each month coming in; and that's the married ones. Many supporting a wife, kids, and often an extended family. Not too many up here in Isaan on retirement that I know of.

 

Fortunately, my extension (retirement) is OK 'til November. Others not so lucky. Hopefully, everything will be more clear later this year.

 

But where do we go from here? Having to return to UK is not a nice thought for me.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

 

In my circle of farang friends, about half DO NOT have 400K in the bank or have 40K each month coming in; and that's the married ones. Many supporting a wife, kids, and often an extended family. Not too many up here in Isaan on retirement that I know of.

 

Fortunately, my extension (retirement) is OK 'til November. Others not so lucky. Hopefully, everything will be more clear later this year.

The married ones can get Non-O-ME Visas from Savannakhet or HCMC - for now, at least - assuming they can travel for the border-bounces.

 

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

But where do we go from here? Having to return to UK is not a nice thought for me.

Most will go "to an agent" and continue on as before.  If all the agents are rounded-up, along with thousands of IOs across the country, and up the chain, who have been "on the take" with them for years, then maybe not - but I'd be surprised if that happens.

 

Unless you wanted to, there are many places to go "from here" other than one's passport-country.  Thailand enacting this upside-down economics policy vis-a-vis expats does not mean everyone else will too.  Most countries like to have self-funded foreigners show up and spend foreign-capital into their economies - even if not a ton of it per-each every month.

 

In the region, I suspect most will go to the PI, with smaller numbers to Cambodia and Vietnam.  Vietnam requires border-bounces, so those not wanting to do those will go to the other two.  Others will go to the Caribbean, Latin America, Portugal, etc. 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The married ones can get Non-O-ME Visas from Savannakhet or HCMC - for now, at least - assuming they can travel for the border-bounces.

 

Most will go "to an agent" and continue on as before.  If all the agents are rounded-up, along with thousands of IOs across the country, and up the chain, who have been "on the take" with them for years, then maybe not - but I'd be surprised if that happens.

 

Unless you wanted to, there are many places to go "from here" other than one's passport-country.  Thailand enacting this upside-down economics policy vis-a-vis expats does not mean everyone else will too.  Most countries like to have self-funded foreigners show up and spend foreign-capital into their economies - even if not a ton of it per-each every month.

 

In the region, I suspect most will go to the PI, with smaller numbers to Cambodia and Vietnam.  Vietnam requires border-bounces, so those not wanting to do those will go to the other two.  Others will go to the Caribbean, Latin America, Portugal, etc. 

Thanks for the reply Jack. I am married and have a lovely daughter aged 9. I invested a lot of dosh here and some of it has come to fruition, With the income from the farms and my 36k baht monthly from the UK, we live comfortably,

 

When I said "where do we go from here", I was thinking more with the procedure. I certainly don't want to leave the family here if I am forced to depart. I don't think I could handle it emotionally,

 

I am using a well-established agent in Isaan; this time. And, as I say, I'm lucky that my visa extension runs to November. (BTW I have two passports filled up with visas from Laos and Thailand. So I've tried a lot of things in the past,)

 

Many farangs have built a life here. They have families and look after wife's parents; as I do.

Edited February 9, 2019 by owl sees all

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, owl sees all said:

But where do we go from here? Having to return to UK is not a nice thought for me.

You did not mention your financial status but the options are there. From money on deposit, income, Visas from nearby countries etc etc. 

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Thanks for the reply Jack. I am married and have a lovely daughter aged 9. I invested a lot of dosh here and some of it has come to fruition, With the income from the farms and my 36k baht monthly from the UK, we live comfortably,

 

When I said "where do we go from here", I was thinking more with the procedure. I certainly don't want to leave the family here if I am forced to depart. I don't think I could handle it emotionally,

I am also married here, and not planning to leave, either.  As to procedure

• Try to qualify by whatever your local office wants (I cannot, because my sufficent-income is not a "govt pension"
• Get a Non-O-ME Visa, and if they add financials everywhere, use an embassy-letter from your embassy in the country where the visa is issued (if you have the required total-income)
• Use an agent - since immigration really just wants the money, doesn't care if you "really qualify" for anything, and uses the so-called "qualifications"  (published and unpublished) to drive you to an agent
• Worst-case - Rent a 2nd cheap-room in a nearby country and visit your family here as much as immigration will permit
• A TR Visa + 60-day "visit your wife" extension gets a 4-mo block, and 5-mo if they let you do the 30-day tourist-extension first (some offices do).  The "landlord docs" trick at some offices may make even this impossible for many, but if staying at your wife's house-book address in Issan, it would be do-able.  How long immigration might make us "stay away" before allowing us to obtain another visa and/or re-enter to "visit" our homes again, is unknowable

If the "combo method" were available for marriage-based extensions, that would save many with smaller pensions.  It makes no sense that it is not an option - except to purposefully and cynically limit how many foreign husbands can support their wives here.

 

11 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I am using a well-established agent in Isaan; this time. And, as I say, I'm lucky that my visa extension runs to November. (BTW I have two passports filled up with visas from Laos and Thailand. So I've tried a lot of things in the past,)

 

Many farangs have built a life here. They have families and look after wife's parents; as I do.

I am not as far along as you are in years-married or time/money invested, to ensure that my wife's family here is self-sustaining at a higher standard of living than before - but I share your general outlook.  My goal is for my wife and her family to be better-off through sustainable projects, even if/when immigration boots me and my supporting-income out.  Given the trend, continuing over many years, the question would seem to be "when" rather than "if."

 

Immigration's agenda appears to center on keep poorer-families poor - shuttering exapt-supported businesses that provide higher-wages (than package-tour serving and most other entry-level work-opportunities), and even making it difficult for foreign-husbands to stay and support their wives - even when they meet the published qualifications.  As we cannot participate in the political process, denying that clique the satisfaction of denying our families and their communities upward-mobility, seems the only response available to us. 

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

My goal is for my wife and her family to be better-off through sustainable projects, even if/when immigration boots me and my supporting-income out.  Given the trend, continuing over many years, the question would seem to be "when" rather than "if."

Great then your goal should also be that you spend as much time as possible with your loving wife and her family, and then, when the IMM folks kick you out, you can wire money from somewhere ex-Thailand into their bank accounts.

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Great then your goal should also be that you spend as much time as possible with your loving wife and her family, and then, when the IMM folks kick you out, you can wire money from somewhere ex-Thailand into their bank accounts.

The amount expat-husbands could send will be far less than while living here, since we would need to pay to live somewhere else at the same time. 

As well, sustainable profit-making businesses our wives / families end a "dependence-cycle", and can operate in our absence function similarly to a foundation, in that they can continue, even after our moral-demise.

 

The longer we manage to stay, the more development we can effect with our educations / training and business-experience - plus the critical seed-money we don't need to waste on "rent and bills" somewhere else.

[JLCrab]

All I can say is that I am working on the next generation and they are doing just fine and will be able to carry-on quite well without me.

[owl sees all]

The welfare, wellbeing and love that I give to my daughter is paramount. I could go back to UK, live on the street, and use food banks. I could handle this aspect, but not being with my daughter would not be acceptable to me. And to be honest, I couldn't deal with it.

 

The investments that we have made in Thailand, give enough income - along with my monthly 36k - to live comfortably, though not extravagantly. If I was forced to leave, the koi carp business would collapse. The shrimp farm would just become irrelevant, the snail farm would deteriorate and no nuts would be cut from 900 trees. The lot (4 farms) would be sold off on the cheap (hot sales) and the future for the family would be very unclear.

 

It's a dilemma, a worry and leads to sleepless nights.

Edited February 10, 2019 by owl sees all

[jonwilly]

"But where do we go from here? Having to return to UK is not a nice thought for me."

The thought of having to leave Thailand for els where is certainly not a nice thought.

 

john

[tgeezer]

Thailand has to live in the world, deportation of foreign husbands and fathers, leaving their dependents to a life of dependence on a non existent State system would not be smart. Peasants may count for nothing but foreigners are making it unnecessary for them to stir up trouble.


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[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, tgeezer said:

Peasants may count for nothing but foreigners are making it unnecessary for them to stir up trouble.

So one would think.  You'd think they'd recognize even lower-spending foreigners here w/o family are spending multiple Thai-job incomes directly into existence - plus the married guys doing even more per-each to reduce pressure for socio-economic change. 

 

This is why I can only see corruption-reasons for immigration to make it more and more difficult for us to stay - because it makes no sense they'd want to make their own citizenry less-supportive of the status-quo by degrading their economic opportunities/situation.

[john ianson]

On 2/8/2019 at 9:34 AM, marcusarelus said:

I've done it for 20 years. 

It is all very well for all the " high flyers " on here mouthing off about  "just put the 800000 in the bank etc " ! Just see what happens if a severe medical situation arises and you have to return home! Do you think taking all your money in Thai banks with you will be just a simple transaction ? Good luck with that !

[jonwilly]

" Do you think taking all your money in Thai banks with you will be just a simple transaction ? Good luck with that !"

Please tell us what YOU know on moving money from a Thai Bank that has been legally imported.

 

john