Solar power is it worth it

[Bandersnatch]

On 5/19/2020 at 5:47 PM, moe666 said:

It always boils down to how long is the pay  out. 10 years, 20 years 25years will you still be alive. Same for elect cars. Solar homes also a waste, to hot in the summer too cold in the winter, just too hot in thailand.

 

If you are short of money and need a very quick payback. I would suggest aiming to cover 60% of your electric bill with solar and not installing batteries. This is the low hanging fruit and would have produced a payback of about 5 years in my case. I chose to go off-grid with PEA as a backup, which meant I needed batteries and an excess of solar to cover cloudy days. My over-the-top system has a payback of 10 years. I am not sure where you got 25 years from. Is that based on an install in Thailand or New Mexico? 

 

"Solar homes also a waste, to hot in the summer too cold in the winter, just too hot in thailand."

 

I have no problem running aircon on my solar system system. But if money is tight I would suggest spending the money on insulation first and solar later if you can afford it.

 

My solar house is lovely and cool, but I did insulate.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Bandersnatch

[pineapple01]

It was usefull in power cuts. Thats about all.

[Bandersnatch]

31 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

It was usefull in power cuts. Thats about all.

Having solar also protects you from rising Electric bills. 
 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

I think solar makes sense in a lot of cases, and it is defiantly getting more attractive. I am considering  a walk-under roof-top installation that would shade the roof, and cover my AC condensing units.

 

I understand there are people that find a ten year payback attractive, but I don't understand why such a person would think the only reason people do not find a ten year payback attractive is because they are under capitalized. 

 

Generally, pay-back terms are best-case, and often do not include many things, including the time value of money.

 

When I was working, it was pretty tough to get a capital project approved with over a two year pay-back, unless it it had a 

big safety or environmental component. I think this is pretty typical, at least in publicly held companies.

 

A lot can happen in ten years. 

[Bandersnatch]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I understand there are people that find a ten year payback attractive, but I don't understand why such a person would think the only reason people do not find a ten year payback attractive is because they are under capitalized. 

 

Generally, pay-back terms are best-case, and often do not include many things, including the time value of money.

 

When I was working, it was pretty tough to get a capital project approved with over a two year pay-back, unless it it had a 

big safety or environmental component. I think this is pretty typical, at least in publicly held companies.

 

A lot can happen in ten years. 

 

Business continues to use Payback as it is a simple to understand concept, but it is not very sophisticated.  

 

Time value of money: if you think electricity bills will rise faster than your pension will, you would be better off paying your electricity up front by installing solar.

 

Potential Risks: cost of electricity will continue to rise; Thailand will continue to get hotter so you use more power; The Baht will rise compared to your home currency so you have to send more of it to pay your electric bills   - all these thing have already happened and are likely to continue.

 

I don't think it is helpful for most people considering solar to look at my Off-Grid system. For me I bundled solar into a 430sq.m / 4,600sq.foot build. I spent less on solar than most similar sized houses spend on custom windows. I bought off the shelf windows first and built the walls to fit.

 

Crossy and BritManToo are achieving 3 years payback. That is a 33% return! - try finding a better return in these current times. So yes, if you have the money, it makes a good financial sense.   

 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Bandersnatch

[pineapple01]

Im not against it, and no i wont be replacing my dumped system, i think the panels still work.Its just that our bills are so small now the kids have left its just not worth bothering.Plus we can get away more now their gone.

[taninthai]

On 5/19/2020 at 2:51 PM, BritManToo said:

Just bought 3x 330w panels for 9,360bht (3,000bht each + 360bht delivery). That's about a 2m x 1m solar panel.

And a Suoer 1000w grid tie inverter (3,450bht) to connect them to the grid.

 

Will need to buy some 2" x 1" box steel (about 500bhts worth) and weld some frames together over the next week or so. 

They'll save me 30 units a month of electricity per panel, and I'll be one step more prepared for TEOTWAWKI with the ability to generate my own.

 

Outlay 13,000 bht, return 360bht/month = 3 years to recover my money.

That's pretty good IMHO!

 

On 5/19/2020 at 4:15 PM, JimShortz said:

Great minds must think alike (whilst fools rarely differ...). I just had pretty much the same delivered!

3 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/330w-torque-330-soler-panel-polycrytaline-330-kerry-i764170884-s1489262718.html?

1 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/suoer-solar-1000va-24v-220v-mppt-grid-tie-inverter-with-meter-24v-220v-1000va-suoer-gti-d1000b-pure-sine-i341606723-s662990981.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.21.fe5e54431rJeKG&search=1 

I think I need to get on this type of solar set up,,,,this is my bills since dec,I haven’t really slept there since December just there sometimes in daytime running bit of aircon,fridge ,WiFi,fans etc etc,If I sleep there bills usually 700-800bht.

 

Was considering getting same set up as britman but then yesterday our suoer 3000w inverter blew up only had it since December and it’s only been powering 2 WiFi routers...so obviously not to sold on this brand,,,anyone recommend another type brand to match the 2 above set ups,,,,also want battery back up compatibility as we get a few power cuts in rainy season,only want to connect 1 x100 amp/hour  lifepo4 battery.

this is the thing that blew up yesterday.

 

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, taninthai said:

our suoer 3000w inverter blew up only had it since December

Suoer give a 1 year warranty on their equipment. That doesn't seem like a genuine Suoer part though.

My Suoer 1000w inverter is the size of a desktop PC and weights 10Kg.

My current problem is the 100AH Globlatt INV deep cycle battery ......... (5k delivered) 

NIM Express have decided they don't want to deliver, and I can collect from their depot (10Km).

I've paid for home delivery, and ain't gonna collect it.

At the moment we're at an impasse, another 4 days and I can get a refund from Shoppee for non-delivery.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by BritManToo

[taninthai]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Suoer give a 1 year warranty on their equipment.

Ordered from lazada and the seller on give 2 month warranty,I didn’t fill out the warranty card when I bought it,,,would imagine it be a pain in the <deleted> to send back to China.....it only cost 1300bht can probably get fixed locally for couple hundred bht......but still not over keen on this brand.

[taninthai]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Suoer give a 1 year warranty on their equipment. That doesn't seem like a genuine Suoer part though.

My Suoer 1000w inverter is the size of a desktop PC and weights 10Kg.

Yes found this exact same one you have on Shopee this week after you posted about it......was checking it out looks just what I need ,,,but as mentioned not sure on reliability of these things.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Yes found this exact same one you have on Shopee this week after you posted about it......was checking it out looks just what I need ,,,but as mentioned not sure on reliability of these things.

My 600w Suoer GTI has been great, survived several power cuts, still only 8 months old.

Which is why I bought this 1000w inverter. 

 

Realistically, this equipment from China is less than 1/2 the price of anything from a 'badged' manufacturer.

I assume it's more likely to fail but am taking the risk for the price saving.

Solar power is still in it's infancy. 

 

(Did I mention the 55" Samsung 4k TV (20,000bht) that died twice in 18 months, and Samsung essentially told me to f. off when I complained and told me to chuck it and buy a new one)

 

I've had 3x UPS in the past 6 years, all failed in 2 years (around 2,000bht each).

I'm hoping to run the entire living room off the Suoer, 4 years lifetime would be good.

Edited May 21, 2020 by BritManToo

[taninthai]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Did I mention the 55" Samsung 4k TV (20,000bht) that died twice in 18 months, and Samsung essentially told me to f. off when I complained and told me to chuck it and buy a new one)

Lol......when lcd/plasma was new technology I bought a 43 inch Samsung in the U.K...the biggest you could get at the time...2000gbp......it broke it  in 26 months Samsung said same to me we will not even look at it,,,,,,from that day have never bought another Samsung product I ended up dumping the tv at the local council rubbish dump.......just bought new Sony tv yesterday actually????

 

you got a link to that inverter the one I found said out of stock and was 5100 bht.....will look at it some more and check any reviews.

Edited May 21, 2020 by taninthai

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Business continues to use Payback as it is a simple to understand concept, but it is not very sophisticated.  

 

Time value of money: if you think electricity bills will rise faster than your pension will, you would be better off paying your electricity up front by installing solar.

 

Potential Risks: cost of electricity will continue to rise; Thailand will continue to get hotter so you use more power; The Baht will rise compared to your home currency so you have to send more of it to pay your electric bills   - all these thing have already happened and are likely to continue.

 

I don't think it is helpful for most people considering solar to look at my Off-Grid system. For me I bundled solar into a 430sq.m / 4,600sq.foot build. I spent less on solar than most similar sized houses spend on custom windows. I bought off the shelf windows first and built the walls to fit.

 

Crossy and BritManToo are achieving 3 years payback. That is a 33% return! - try finding a better return in these current times. So yes, if you have the money, it makes a good financial sense.   

 

 

Wow, what a great, in-depth risk analysis.... 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

from that day have never bought another Samsung product I ended up dumping the tv at the local council rubbish dump

Me too ..... I now have LG.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

you got a link to that inverter the one I found said out of stock and was 5100 bht.....will look at it some more and check any reviews.

https://shopee.co.th/product/113036535/7232751970

Says 17 left, 4,140bht inc delivery.

 

Another delivery just arrived. just waiting for 3x 330w panels .... dunno what's happening with the battery.

Edited May 21, 2020 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

Now that the COVID shipping restrictions have eased and Solar Panels from China are on sale again, I'm having another go to buy 3 panels. Found some on Lazada 330w panels, 3 delivered for 8,820bht COD (3x 2k8 + delivery).

 

This will be my 4th attempt to buy 3 panels, to add to my existing two.

Already had a 1000w Suoer GTI sitting in it's box for months.

Edited August 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[sidgy]

So , i have had 3 x 360w panels operating for ten days now and got 46kwh for an average of 4.6units/day.

got 2nd array of 3 x 360w panels set up and produced 4.5units yesterday from these.

The worst day so far was 3.7units on a mostly cloudy day but so far the sky has mainly stayed clear during peak hours between 10am to 2pm which i think has helped the figures stay very good but reading other posters returns, i seem to be exceeding certainly my expectations. If i were to maintain this rate of generation , then i would see a return of investment of around two years !!

So my question to those who have had solar for a year or more is how much variation do you get throughout the year? And how does July compare ?

[Crossy]

We are at the peak of summer with long days and the sun ideally positioned. 

 

Sadly my figures for last year were lost in a server failure (it won't happen again, I'm keeping my own records) but IIRC in December we were getting something like 80% of what we see now with the slightly shorter days and sun lower in the sky.

 

Average of 1 unit per day from a 300W panel, obviously a bit more from your larger panels, would be a conseravative estimate.

[Crossy]

@sidgy Just by way of contrast our 5.8kW (installed panels) system is struggling to 900W at present.

 

With 100% cloud predicted for the whole day I predict a thin day of production ????

 

[BritManToo]

19 hours ago, Crossy said:

We are at the peak of summer with long days and the sun ideally positioned. 

 

Sadly my figures for last year were lost in a server failure (it won't happen again, I'm keeping my own records) but IIRC in December we were getting something like 80% of what we see now with the slightly shorter days and sun lower in the sky.

 

Average of 1 unit per day from a 300W panel, obviously a bit more from your larger panels, would be a conseravative estimate.

Sun is stronger in summer, but more clouds and rain.

Last year 1 x 330w panel Aug 28, Oct 32, Nov 29, Dec 30, Jan 29, Feb 28 

This year 2 x 330w panel, April 59, May 65, June 57, July 57

 

So a fairly consistent output all year 1x 330w panel produces 1 unit/day with small variations.

Edited August 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[sidgy]

Yes, yesterday was the first day of cloud throughout the day and i got 5.1units from the 6 panels, today is forecast to do the same . The cloud in the morning or late afternoon doesnt drag the figures too much but yesterday was the only time it has been overcast through the 1000-1400 period and has had a dramatic effect.

Im south Bkk and overcast and getting between 350-450 at the moment from 2,160w of panels.

In regards to earlier post, i wasnt sure if the clearer skys in Nov-Feb compensated for the lower sun/shorter days so thanks for the info

 

[sidgy]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Sun is stronger in summer, but more clouds and rain.

Last year 1 x 330w panel Aug 28, Oct 32, Nov 29, Dec 30, Jan 29, Feb 28 

This year 2 x 330w panel, April 59, May 65, June 57, July 57

 

So a fairly consistent output all year 1x 330w panel produces 1 unit/day with small variations.

Ha, you posted this as i was typing.  Answers it well , thanks

[bankruatsteve]

Does production depend on keeping the panels clean?  Or, not really an issue?

[Crossy]

31 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Does production depend on keeping the panels clean?  Or, not really an issue?

 

A light coating of crud doesn't seem to make much difference but in reality the variation just from different weather and cloud cover likely masks all but the worst muck.

 

I'm not cleaning ours at present we shall see if anything noticeable occurs after a couple of months then a clean.

[Goinghomesoon]

We  have no electricity near our place and recently replaced our old solar setup after the set-up got a direct lightning strike and all the components went ker-bang.   The family uses it for running a small fridge, radio, charging phones and running a couple of fans at night.  The new system is worth it for the fridge (buying blocks of ice for an esky every couple of days was just plain annoying).  Also for the fans as our previous battery system was small and used to run out of oomph at about midnight.  

[BritManToo]

This weeks weather finally tested my battery back-up.

4hr power cut earlier in the week and a 30 minute power cut yesterday.

Was watching movies from the NAS directly on the TV, and running a big a fan, think the battery would have lasted at least 6hrs.

 

Had neighbours asking the misses how our TV was still going while they had no power.

Edited August 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[Cake Monster]

I have a deep hole submersible pump of 2 Horse Power

1520 Watts

That would require at the very least, six panels of 320 Watt costing 3,900 each

That equates to 23,400 just for the Electric supply

Add on the Electric Cable at 80 Baht / Meter, and your costs spiral

EG For 100 M depth bore to pump = 23,400 + 100 x 80 =8000

Total install cost of Electicity supply only = 31,400

Really a non starter.

 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

That would require at the very least, six panels of 320 Watt costing 3,900 each

Add on the Electric Cable at 80 Baht / Meter,

I've just ordered 3x 330w panels @ 2,800bht each (+500bht delivery).

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i1388536099-s3540822457.html

 

2.5mm twin cable (15Amp 240v) is approx 10bht/metre (315bht/30m roll).

https://shopee.co.th/product/105995009/1894419490

 

Why are you paying so much more for everything?

Edited August 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[eisfeld]

5 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Does production depend on keeping the panels clean?  Or, not really an issue?

Yes it does affect the output. Of course it depends on what kind of dirt and how much. In the raining season you get a self cleaning effect if there is a bit of tilt. Cleaning can boost output some 20% or more in the dry season if dust accumulated for a fair amount of time (months) from what I've seen. It's hard to put a figure on it but cleaning the panels 2-4 times a year is a good rule of thumb. It heavily depends on your region and surroundings too. It's easy to see the difference if one has an inverter that tracks stats. And if one has more than one string then you can clean only one and compare side by side. Cleaning is very easy too.

Edited August 2, 2020 by eisfeld

[whiteman]

some houses have steep roofs good to catch the sun but too hard to climb up and clean with out scaffolding so its a no go for me I will just pay my power bill and enjoy the aircon and we do not get many black out and if we do fixed with in 2 hours