Elite Visa after overstay

[mokwit]

12 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

The specific language used on the agent website is '...applications with income mainly from rentals & bank interests will not be acceptable.', the operative word here being 'applications'.

I have a vague memory that the visa is for 10years and after that you have to renew, but that might not be the same as re apply with new conditions. If it is they are for all intents and purposes changing the deal on you.

11 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

made one very significant change a few years back, that being that folks who previously qualified based solely on a monthly income meeting the minimum program requirements now also have to make a fixed deposit of about USD 37,000

So basically those who made Malaysia their second home have had the deal changed on them - those who made Malaysia their *ONLY* home and can't stump up 37k are presumably stuffed.

 

Key takeaway: In Asia reneging on agreements is not the issue it is in Anglo Saxon countries and this makes these countries unsuitable for retirement (other than by those who have a surplus that allows them not to have burned any bridges). Thailand not grandfathering those on 800k-> >400k is a key indicator of whether or not you should retire here other than temporarily (which is how they see it).

My solution will be to at some point move somewhere that offers security of residence. Thailand IMO now does not, and the non grandfathering is a watershed moment IMO.

 

Similarly overstays, viewing something they were very casual about, -basically the attitude was: if you want more time just pay for it on exit* to it now being a serious offence and seemingly applying that retrospectively. What else will they apply retrospectively? 

 

As for buying an Elite Visa in the expectation of being able to use it for 20 years of unbroken residency - current trends suggest that is unrealistic IMO. Flying in from overseas to stay at your Phuket villa for a few weeks, a few times a year will be possible IMO, but why pay Bt2m for that "privilege"?. That was the target market/usage envisaged and like Multiple entry Non O/B it was not envisaged people would turn it inside out and use it to stay year round/near indefinitely. That will be fixed for Elite IMO at some time in the future - possibly indirectly for new applicants e.g some qualifier of permanent non residence such as proof of employment and employer rehire letter as with METV.

 

* it was always an offence and being found to be on overstay other than "surrendering"  at border exit meant arrest and IDC detention even in the more laid back times of yore.

 

[dcnx]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

For the above overstay where I was waiting for my new passport to arrive I asked the guy at the overstay desk if there would be any negative effect when I come back into the country.

 

He asked when I'm coming back to which I replied 'tomorrow', he replied 'well you have a new passport so no - there will be no problem'.

 

That kind of made me think that they were not logging the overstays in the computer system back then, this was back in 2011 and maybe things have changed in the last 7 or 8 years.

They still don’t log overstays. 

 

A new passport is a clean slate.

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, dcnx said:

They still don’t log overstays. 

I am certain they are entered in immigrations database.

What makes you think they are not entered.

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I am certain they are entered in immigrations database.

What makes you think they are not entered.

ubonjoe, any thoughts as to how long back that logging goes?

[ubonjoe]

Just now, mokwit said:

ubonjoe, any thoughts as to how long back that logging goes?

I think it is kept for many years.

But after a few years they would have to back to find them which would take some time to do.

[mokwit]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

I think it is kept for many years.

But after a few years they would have to back to find them which would take some time to do.

Any guess as to when computerised logging started? as per

 

"do we know how far back Immigration's computerised records go? If someone had an overstay in 1995 before the border points were computerised would that be on there - although no terminal at the border, not impossible paper records were sent back to BKK for entry into computer. "

[Caldera]

With large databases such as Thailand's immigration database, it doesn't only matter if an overstay is logged, but also how. Will it be easy for immigration officers to run a query like "show me all the overstays of this and that person", or can they only get a list of all the entries and have to sift through to find them? Reports seem to indicate that the latter might be the case.

 

Personally, I don't think they ever delete a record, so once something has been logged there it will stay there forever. But if and when they migrate their database, they might have a cut off date for ancient data that's no longer relevant.

[humbug]

8 hours ago, mokwit said:

I have a vague memory that the visa is for 10years and after that you have to renew, but that might not be the same as re apply with new conditions. If it is they are for all intents and purposes changing the deal on you.

So basically those who made Malaysia their second home have had the deal changed on them - those who made Malaysia their *ONLY* home and can't stump up 37k are presumably stuffed.

 

Key takeaway: In Asia reneging on agreements is not the issue it is in Anglo Saxon countries and this makes these countries unsuitable for retirement (other than by those who have a surplus that allows them not to have burned any bridges). Thailand not grandfathering those on 800k-> >400k is a key indicator of whether or not you should retire here other than temporarily (which is how they see it).

My solution will be to at some point move somewhere that offers security of residence. Thailand IMO now does not, and the non grandfathering is a watershed moment IMO.

 

Similarly overstays, viewing something they were very casual about, -basically the attitude was: if you want more time just pay for it on exit* to it now being a serious offence and seemingly applying that retrospectively. What else will they apply retrospectively? 

 

As for buying an Elite Visa in the expectation of being able to use it for 20 years of unbroken residency - current trends suggest that is unrealistic IMO. Flying in from overseas to stay at your Phuket villa for a few weeks, a few times a year will be possible IMO, but why pay Bt2m for that "privilege"?. That was the target market/usage envisaged and like Multiple entry Non O/B it was not envisaged people would turn it inside out and use it to stay year round/near indefinitely. That will be fixed for Elite IMO at some time in the future - possibly indirectly for new applicants e.g some qualifier of permanent non residence such as proof of employment and employer rehire letter as with METV.

 

* it was always an offence and being found to be on overstay other than "surrendering"  at border exit meant arrest and IDC detention even in the more laid back times of yore.

 

the 20 year no frills elite visa which many chinese property buyers are receiving from their set listed property companies, are including over a certain purchase price the card for 1 million baht. Actually it can be 20-24 years. Yes i know right now you can lose anything over an electronic fag or be caught up in the over bearing illegal nationalists trying to reduce long term stay numbers. We can all

be affected, whatever the long term visa, from an increase in stress to being kicked out. But if set billion dollar property companies who backed these nationalists along with their chinese overlords, will probably some how keep the programme intact due to impacting the future property market with the chinese. I mean if you are chinese and buying a 6 million baht condo, would you want a 1 year visa or a programme which gave you 20 years? If they did look to restrict numbers they could just secretly keep it going for the chinese and screw the rest if us on this or other long term visas. Past Overstay is just one area which if implemented accross the board could kick out 30% long termers overnight.

Edited March 3, 2019 by humbug

[gentlemanjackdarby]

9 hours ago, mokwit said:

I have a vague memory that the visa is for 10years and after that you have to renew, but that might not be the same as re apply with new conditions. If it is they are for all intents and purposes changing the deal on you.

So basically those who made Malaysia their second home have had the deal changed on them - those who made Malaysia their *ONLY* home and can't stump up 37k are presumably stuffed.

 

Key takeaway: In Asia reneging on agreements is not the issue it is in Anglo Saxon countries and this makes these countries unsuitable for retirement (other than by those who have a surplus that allows them not to have burned any bridges). Thailand not grandfathering those on 800k-> >400k is a key indicator of whether or not you should retire here other than temporarily (which is how they see it).

My solution will be to at some point move somewhere that offers security of residence. Thailand IMO now does not, and the non grandfathering is a watershed moment IMO.

 

Similarly overstays, viewing something they were very casual about, -basically the attitude was: if you want more time just pay for it on exit* to it now being a serious offence and seemingly applying that retrospectively. What else will they apply retrospectively? 

 

As for buying an Elite Visa in the expectation of being able to use it for 20 years of unbroken residency - current trends suggest that is unrealistic IMO. Flying in from overseas to stay at your Phuket villa for a few weeks, a few times a year will be possible IMO, but why pay Bt2m for that "privilege"?. That was the target market/usage envisaged and like Multiple entry Non O/B it was not envisaged people would turn it inside out and use it to stay year round/near indefinitely. That will be fixed for Elite IMO at some time in the future - possibly indirectly for new applicants e.g some qualifier of permanent non residence such as proof of employment and employer rehire letter as with METV.

 

* it was always an offence and being found to be on overstay other than "surrendering"  at border exit meant arrest and IDC detention even in the more laid back times of yore.

 

It's been a couple of years since I considered Malaysia, and as I recall, you're right that although the MM2H social pass is for 10 years, I believe it requires renewal after 5 years. From what I read, the renewal was not a big deal.

 

There is not nearly the amount written about MM2H as there is about Thailand retirement options, likely because it's a smoother application process and changes are relatively few-and-far-between and they only apply to new applicants, and I haven't really read anything bad about the program. Some folks mentioned that it seemed to take too long for initial approval and some others thought it took too long to get their fixed deposits back once they left the program, but beyond that, not much.

 

I'm not sure that I agree that those who were already IN MM2H got the deal changed on them - Malaysia, through it's MM2H program, has always made very clear, in writing, that changes apply only to new applications

 

Now for someone like me, whose retirement is a couple of years away and who did not apply to the MM2H program before the requirement for a fixed deposit went into effect, for sure the deal has changed for me.

 

I'm considering the Thailand Elite Easy Access 'flavor' - it's 'only' THB 500,000 and is 'only' valid for 5 years; In my view, I don't think Thailand is a good risk for THB 2 million and 20 years.

 

At this point in time, in my view the best retirement visa option in SE Asia is the Philippines SRRV (Special Resident Retiree Visa) since it's valid for as long as one chooses, doesn't cost much (the SRRV Courtesy is nearly free for military vets), the annual 'renewal' only involves the payment of a minimal fee with no re-proving of financial bona-fides, and it gives one resident status, which means it's likely I can get a Non Immigrant O-A in Manila rather than back in the U.S. for when I wish to visit Thailand with little hassle.

 

One other thing that I've noticed is that the PI has made several changes to the SRRV program to make it EASIER for folks to get it - that's not a trend I've seen anywhere else in SE Asia.

 

Since I'm planning to travel around SE Asia for a good while once I retire, the PI will make an acceptable 'home base' and, while Manila is down the list when it comes to travel hubs, flight options are getting better for Clark and Cebu, so in my book it's the best of the bunch right now.

[humbug]

12 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

It's been a couple of years since I considered Malaysia, and as I recall, you're right that although the MM2H social pass is for 10 years, I believe it requires renewal after 5 years. From what I read, the renewal was not a big deal.

 

There is not nearly the amount written about MM2H as there is about Thailand retirement options, likely because it's a smoother application process and changes are relatively few-and-far-between and they only apply to new applicants, and I haven't really read anything bad about the program. Some folks mentioned that it seemed to take too long for initial approval and some others thought it took too long to get their fixed deposits back once they left the program, but beyond that, not much.

 

I'm not sure that I agree that those who were already IN MM2H got the deal changed on them - Malaysia, through it's MM2H program, has always made very clear, in writing, that changes apply only to new applications

 

Now for someone like me, whose retirement is a couple of years away and who did not apply to the MM2H program before the requirement for a fixed deposit went into effect, for sure the deal has changed for me.

 

I'm considering the Thailand Elite Easy Access 'flavor' - it's 'only' THB 500,000 and is 'only' valid for 5 years; In my view, I don't think Thailand is a good risk for THB 2 million and 20 years.

 

At this point in time, in my view the best retirement visa option in SE Asia is the Philippines SRRV (Special Resident Retiree Visa) since it's valid for as long as one chooses, doesn't cost much (the SRRV Courtesy is nearly free for military vets), the annual 'renewal' only involves the payment of a minimal fee with no re-proving of financial bona-fides, and it gives one resident status, which means it's likely I can get a Non Immigrant O-A in Manila rather than back in the U.S. for when I wish to visit Thailand with little hassle.

 

One other thing that I've noticed is that the PI has made several changes to the SRRV program to make it EASIER for folks to get it - that's not a trend I've seen anywhere else in SE Asia.

 

Since I'm planning to travel around SE Asia for a good while once I retire, the PI will make an acceptable 'home base' and, while Manila is down the list when it comes to travel hubs, flight options are getting better for Clark and Cebu, so in my book it's the best of the bunch right now.

isnt there two 20-24 year elite visas, the full one for 2 million and the no frills one with just the visa for 1 million? i say 24 because you get 1 year extensions.

 

But we should be worried with what was uncovered in Malaysia recently in 'Forest City' a future property development just for chinese which has a secret 20 year programme to grant only chinese buying in tbis development(up to 500,000 were projected to buy) with full malaysian citizenship. Once discovered the plan the new democratic malay gov deleted the whole programme. Could that be happening here under the 20 year national strategy? maybe, could be a reason for their reduction of long term stayers of other nationalities here

[gentlemanjackdarby]

8 minutes ago, humbug said:

isnt there two 20-24 year elite visas, the full one for 2 million and the no frills one with just the visa for 1 million? i say 24 because you get 1 year extensions.

 

But we should be worried with what was uncovered in Malaysia recently in 'Forest City' a future property development just for chinese which has a secret 20 year programme to grant only chinese buying in tbis development(up to 500,000 were projected to buy) with full malaysian citizenship. Once discovered the plan the new democratic malay gov deleted the whole programme. Could that be happening here under the 20 year national strategy? maybe, could be a reason for their reduction of long term stayers of other nationalities here

There are three Thailand Elite options:

 

1. Elite Ultimate Privilege - THB 2 million, 20 years

 

2. Elite Superiority Extension THB 1 million, 20 years with extensions every 5 years

 

3. Elite Easy Access - THB 500,000, 5 years, multi-entry privileges without most of the perks of the more expensive ones.

 

Hmmm... the Malaysian 'Forest City' program sounds a lot like the one that was (is) still going on in Canada a few years back

[mokwit]

39 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

MM2H program, has always made very clear, in writing, that changes apply only to new applications

In that case I misunderstood and the deal is not being changed on people.

[Thaidream]

On 3/2/2019 at 8:54 AM, Lovethailandelite said:

Why would anybody, no matter which visa they are on, expect to be treated any different to the next person? A TE member on here not so long back was deported and black listed for overstay. He misunderstood how the visa works and stayed on an entry for around 18 months.

That is exactly the point-  Immigration  law in the past has never excluded people who were on overstay from returning.

 

There are people on this forum who have overstayed for up to 11 years and have returned to Thailand without issue.  Thai law in the past had no  provision for blacklisting under these conditions. Since Thailand follows  Western jurisprudence regulations - a new law cannot be enacted retroactive. While the new blacklist law exists it is not applied retroactive and therefore prior Elite members are not  going to be affected by the new blacklisting rules.

 

As far as Embassies/Consulate being tied into  Immigration database-  they will be looking only for blacklisting and not Visa history. Prior overstays were subject to the l;aw at that time and have no bearing on the issuance of Visas  under current law. Again-  legal jurisprudence  states a person cannot be subject to a change in law applied retroactive.

 

 

[mokwit]

As far as I can see while you do not apply the law retroactively, making visa/overstay history part of the application criteria for a new visa is not retroactive application of the law i.e. you do not ban someone based on past overstay but that overstay can be used in assessing suitability for a new visa. Not the same thing.

[mokwit]

10 hours ago, humbug said:

But we should be worried with what was uncovered in Malaysia recently in 'Forest City' a future property development just for chinese which has a secret 20 year programme to grant only chinese buying in tbis development(up to 500,000 were projected to buy) with full malaysian citizenship. Once discovered the plan the new democratic malay gov deleted the whole programme. Could that be happening here under the 20 year national strategy? maybe, could be a reason for their reduction of long term stayers of other nationalities here

Good point - the bundling of 20 year visas with condo purchase is a full bolthole package for Chinese looking for that*. Property developers will always be able to influence Govt policy - even that of the least corrupt/crony government due to the multiplier effect from property development throughout the whole economy. Actually would someone buying a Bt10m+ condo still be eligible for an Investment Visa- it was 3m - they scrapped that but I have a vague memory it was reintroduced with bt10m threshold - that said EV is easier and 20 year visa sounds better to 1 yr visa requiring reconfirmation of investment every year.

 

That said, they may yet introduce stiffer criteria for non property owners.

 

Talk of the property developers lending Chinese money to buy condos to be paid back at the Chinese $50,000 PA foreign currency remittance allowance - that could end very badly.

 

*as a jewellery trade friend explained, with means of getting money out of China being increasingly clamped down upon the Chinese are "buying up all the stones you can stick up your XXX and start a new life with". They are buying Insurance - you can leave China and arrive somewhere literally in the clothes you stand up in and start a new life.

[tingtongtourist]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:27 PM, simon43 said:

This is worrying news (for me).  I already have a 5-year TE visa, which expires this year in September.  But if I do a visa-run before that expiry date, then I should (not yet fully confirmed) that I'll get a further one year visa stamp which would see me through to September 2020.

 

But what then?  In the past 18 years of living in Thailand, I know that on at least 2 occasions I overstayed by one or two days, (my own fault, either due to not reading the visa expiry date correctly, or due to my departing flight date and immigration advice to pay the small fine at the airport).

 

Does that make me an 'undesirable', even though I already have a TE visa?

 

These visa rules are getting crazier and crazier...

This does answer many questions, you  got granted elite visa even with a few questionable things in your history.

 

But surely they will not reject the renewal if the visa already in your passport?

but who knows..they would be very poor sods if they did.

 

It looks more obvious now these IOs make a decision simply on a "whim" or at least using  some "case by case" strategy.

 

So, maybe you are Brit and happen to have a 1-2 overstay they might disregard by itself.

-But if have 1 day overstay, and happen to be the citizen (of say Nigeria) the officer have a "bad feeling" certainly he will reject.

 

anyway the rules always said, even if your granted a visa you can be denied entry by a individual officer anytime.

 

sad to say it, but the buck can stop with just 1 power tripper officer

 who will have a bit of a beef against your nationality or skin colour or just dont like the look of you

 

 

[tingtongtourist]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:11 PM, Lovethailandelite said:

Then unfortunately, you are not suitable for the scheme. You are what is termed as 'Undesirable' in the eyes of immigration.

I am wondering if you

<Lovethailandelite>

do work or are an agent for this elite visa scheme?

 

not doubting anything you say,

but since you seem to speak like some sort of authority on this subject, 

 

telling people they are undesirable etc etc

 

the members might want to know if you are actually qualified to say this, or is it just your opinion as a TE member?

[Lovethailandelite]

18 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

I am wondering if you

<Lovethailandelite>

do work or are an agent for this elite visa scheme?

 

not doubting anything you say,

but since you seem to speak like some sort of authority on this subject, 

 

telling people they are undesirable etc etc

 

the members might want to know if you are actually qualified to say this, or is it just your opinion as a TE member?

No I don't work for Thailand Elite in any way. The term 'Undesirable' is a term immigration have used for as many years as I care to remember. They continue to use it for those that are not wanted here or have broken the Law in some way.

[tingtongtourist]

23 hours ago, dcnx said:

They still don’t log overstays. 

 

A new passport is a clean slate.

This debate been going on for years and even now is only down to peoples opinion.

 

Even the most knowledgable moderator on this thread, indicated he cant say 100% for sure.

 

First, many claim they match the old passport to the new with the PP number,

but it cant be right since i had many new pps myself and got new numbers every time.

 

Then they say IMMs match new PP to your old PP history by using other personal data.

 

personally, i doubt Thailand IMMs system was ever this well organised or even have a data matching capablility...

certainly not before the "chip" passports came into place anyway, but now it might be different.

 

and this is the trouble, 

To many TV parrots squarking about things as if they are the fact, when they really do not know 100% at all!!!

 

the only way we can know for sure is if some TV member have a Thai in-law or some really close Thai friend that is higher up in IMMs..

 

but since when does hi-up Thai IMMs ever associate with farangs?

lol

except for all BบเเsHit artists here on Thaivisa of course. 5555  

[richard_smith237]

On 3/3/2019 at 9:29 AM, dcnx said:

They still don’t log overstays. 

 

A new passport is a clean slate.

Do not spread misinformation: 

 

A new passport is not a clean slate. 

 

As soon as you enter Thailand on a New Passport, with the Same Name, Same DOB, Same Place of Birth *(3 key identifiers) your Passport can be compared to other Entries into Thailand of the same 3 key identifiers, your photo will be compared and your New Passport digitially linked to your old one. 

 

Those who think Thai Immigration don’t have the Tech to do this are sorely underestimating them.

 

I have close friends in Thai Immigration - when out having a beer (a few years ago) I questioned this... within 10mins my friend was sent details of every Airport Departure and Entry since 2012, on 3 differenct Passports (which had been renewed after filling up with stamps - UK Passports have different numbers when renewed), it also showed which visa’s I had entered on and the flights. 

 

If you think you can escape having overstayed by using a new passport - you are simply being hopeful and somewhat dim. 

 

 

That said: I’m not sure if they actively flag over-stays in their system.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, tingtongtourist said:

This debate been going on for years and even now is only down to peoples opinion.

 

Even the most knowledgable moderator on this thread, indicated he cant say 100% for sure.

 

First, many claim they match the old passport to the new with the PP number,

but it cant be right since i had many new pps myself and got new numbers every time.

 

Then they say IMMs match new PP to your old PP history by using other personal data.

 

personally, i doubt Thailand IMMs system was ever this well organised or even have a data matching capablility...

certainly not before the "chip" passports came into place anyway, but now it might be different.

 

and this is the trouble, 

To many TV parrots squarking about things as if they are the fact, when they really do not know 100% at all!!!

 

the only way we can know for sure is if some TV member have a Thai in-law or some really close Thai friend that is higher up in IMMs..

 

but since when does hi-up Thai IMMs ever associate with farangs?

lol

except for all BบเเsHit artists here on Thaivisa of course. 5555  

Go too your local immigration office and ask to see your immigration history. It is all there on the system. I have seen mine all the way back to 1989 and could of gone back further. Every entry, every time you departed. Flight numbers, passports, TM6 cards you have filed, TM30 reports etc. Everything is there on the system. Immigration offices have access too the exact same system as entry points.

[tingtongtourist]

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Go too your local immigration office and ask to see your immigration history. It is all there on the system. I have seen mine all the way back to 1989 and could of gone back further. Every entry, every time you departed. Flight numbers, passports, TM6 cards you have filed, TM30 reports etc. Everything is there on the system. Immigration offices have access too the exact same system as entry points.

Well I never experience such a friendly Immigration officer as this!

I think if you try it in Bangkk they will look at you strangely,

ask why you want?

or tell you to "bpai Loy"

or maybe all 3!! 

 

maybe i try it next time i am at the upcountry office.

[Lovethailandelite]

6 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

Well I never experience such a friendly Immigration officer as this!

I think if you try it in Bangkk they will look at you strangely,

ask why you want?

or tell you to "bpai Loy"

or maybe all 3!! 

 

maybe i try it next time i am at the upcountry office.

It may not be that easy for you lol
Al I am saying, is believe it or not, they know all about you and your complete Thailand history. It's pretty much impossible to hide anything any longer. I am told, but cannot confirm it, that the system is now flagging overstay. At what stage of overstay, how many days etc, I don't know.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post and replies to it have been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[humbug]

16 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

There are three Thailand Elite options:

 

1. Elite Ultimate Privilege - THB 2 million, 20 years

 

2. Elite Superiority Extension THB 1 million, 20 years with extensions every 5 years

 

3. Elite Easy Access - THB 500,000, 5 years, multi-entry privileges without most of the perks of the more expensive ones.

 

Hmmm... the Malaysian 'Forest City' program sounds a lot like the one that was (is) still going on in Canada a few years back

thats the one 20-24 years for 1 million using the extra extensions nearing each 5 year expiry to make it 24

 

the 'forest city' was a  programme where by secretly and gradually rights were granted and then after 20 years full citizenship were to be granted, only for chinese and up to 500,000, the whe development and programme were shut down, another way the chinese plant the seeds of power in other lands. Lets hope the Canada one is seen through the secrecy and shut down, there will be billions in corruption as well just like in Malaysia

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

every Airport Departure and Entry since 2012

Is this date 2012 pertinent to this particular traveler or do you think that date applies to everyone  - i.e. the year of database implementation?

 

 

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Go too your local immigration office and ask to see your immigration history. It is all there on the system. I have seen mine all the way back to 1989 and could of gone back further. Every entry, every time you departed. Flight numbers, passports, TM6 cards you have filed, TM30 reports etc. Everything is there on the system. Immigration offices have access too the exact same system as entry points.

Hmmmm I remember when people were being busted for bad stamps it was stated by "George" the then TV administrator that the IO at a border could only see last 3 entries on the system - that was in 2003 (?) and I doubt they would retroactively add all from before that. Also back in '95 land borders had no computer terminals but data entry of paper records sent back to HQ is not impossible.

 

There was a time when these things could be clarified just by asking Lars or Vinnie.

 

I personally am not aware of anything I would have to fear from my entire history being available to IO - just trying to shed a little light for others.

Edited March 4, 2019 by mokwit

[humbug]

6 hours ago, mokwit said:

Good point - the bundling of 20 year visas with condo purchase is a full bolthole package for Chinese looking for that*. Property developers will always be able to influence Govt policy - even that of the least corrupt/crony government due to the multiplier effect from property development throughout the whole economy. Actually would someone buying a Bt10m+ condo still be eligible for an Investment Visa- it was 3m - they scrapped that but I have a vague memory it was reintroduced with bt10m threshold - that said EV is easier and 20 year visa sounds better to 1 yr visa requiring reconfirmation of investment every year.

 

That said, they may yet introduce stiffer criteria for non property owners.

 

Talk of the property developers lending Chinese money to buy condos to be paid back at the Chinese $50,000 PA foreign currency remittance allowance - that could end very badly.

 

*as a jewellery trade friend explained, with means of getting money out of China being increasingly clamped down upon the Chinese are "buying up all the stones you can stick up your XXX and start a new life with". They are buying Insurance - you can leave China and arrive somewhere literally in the clothes you stand up in and start a new life.

yes i would say the reason 10 million investment visa is not used for many chinese would be that 4-5 million baht purchase can include the elite visa, one chinese who purchased 2-3 million baht just missed out as it was below the threshold to receive one,and he bought it through a chinese bank loan through family back home in connection with the thai property company,the complex was near the chinese embassy and ranged from 2-6  million, i can imagine that area will see majority of buyers being chinese if they are getting loans and long term visas attached, a community of sorts

[tingtongtourist]

well i find it very hard to believe they still have data going back to the 90s and can/would use it against us now.

 

Thai governments have not been known for updating to the latest cutting edge technology,

 

and Of course its just another opinion,

but to say they have info on every single tourist since the late 80s sounds a bit like fiction to me.

 

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

Hmmmm I remember when people were being busted for bad stamps it was stated by "George" the then TV administrator that the IO at a border could only see last 3 entries on the system - that was in 2003 (?) and I doubt they would retroactively add all from before that. Also back in '95 land borders had no computer terminals but data entry of paper records sent back to HQ is not impossible.

 

There was a time when these things could be clarified just by asking Lars or Vinnie.

 

I personally am not aware of anything I would have to fear from my entire history being available to IO - just trying to shed a little light for others.

Edited 2 hours ago by mokwit

Correct- and i seriously doubt that my 1970 entry at Don Muang is in their computers now or ever kept and entered when they did get computers.

Once a computer program was established- and entries and exits  logged- they obviously have the ability to search whatever they want- but i doubt that the IO's do this type of search unless they suspect there is an issue with an applicant.  

When a Passport is scanned- a blacklist would appear as this is keyed in the system.  To see if a person is on the Interpol watch list- another  type of search has to be initiated. It is not automatic.

 

Normally when a background check is originated - a computer is keyed to show the last 10 years of  information. At some point a computer has to be emptied so current data can be  kept.

 

Has anyone ever heard of an applicant for a Visa to Thailand turned down because of overstay or simply denied entry (prior to the overstay law changed)  because of overstay History.  I certainly have not.

 

The Elite application asks if the applicant has  more than one overstay- yes or no and the applicant can also pick not sure. I have a feeling  that Elite applicant is vetted by the Elite  staff who confers with  Immigration to see  the History.  IMO if one makes it past the initial  application query and is approved- the Visa/ Extension is issued.  While Elite may have turned down applicants- it is they who have made that decision based upon the applicant's answers and if the applicant has a lengthy overstay History spanning many years.  anyone ever hear of someone who paid their money- was approved and then Immigration refused the Visa/Extension (except the person who never went for the extension on time).    

 

Even if a person was  not allowed to obtain an Elite Visa- the same person still can get a Visa to enter Thailand or enter Exempt as a prior overstay is not  an exclusion under the Immigration Act of 1979 unless the person was blacklisted.  Even today- there are reports of people who were blacklisted in the past being allowed to return to Thailand when the blacklist expired.