Elite Visa after overstay

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, BritTim said:

I do not find this a good explanation. Immigration does not check for overstays by looking at your current passport. Their decision is based on your history within immigration's computer system. As @Caldera says, it takes them only a minute or two to review that record. The only time that might not be the case is if the information in your application is insufficient to identify you in immigration's system (perhaps, you misspelled your name or gave an incorrect date of birth) not a common circumstance. I believe part of your application should be the date of your most recent travel to Thailand. If immigration cannot then find your record, they should refuse the application with the explanation that they cannot find your record (in which case, the application could be renewed with corrections).

 

I believe a refund, minus some processing fee, ought to be automatic if, having reviewed your record in immigration's system, officials refuse you a visa.

If your not happy in the way it is done, take it up with TE in the first instance and then Immigration when it comes to inserting the visa in your passport and it's refused through lack of disclosure. Immigration should right now be looking at a lot of things and refusing visas. When it comes, and it is on it's way, people won't be liking that either.

[Brunolem]

8 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

TE has no access to immigration records or indeed see every page of your passport or previous passports at application stage. You don't pay until you have been accepted on the information you have given them. If people choose not too reveal what they are being asked, then I guess, accept the problem when it arises.

That is not how it works. 

TE sends your application to the immigration and informs you that the latter will need about one month to give its approval. 

 

It is all in the hands of immigration, TE is doing nothing except processing the applications.. 

 

[Brunolem]

7 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Unfortunately, until your passport is in front of the Immigration officer, like everything, you can only be advised on the information you have provided to TE.

Wrong! 

The application is sent to immigration, who will accept or reject it. 

That is the reason why it takes one month of processing. 

If immigration was not involved, TE could just sell visas over the counter... 

[ukrules]

First you apply for the membership.

 

If you're accepted then you are requested to make the payment.

 

If you're rejected then you are not asked to make the payment.

 

[mokwit]

do we know how far back Immigration's computerised records go? If someone had an overstay in 1995 before the border points were computerised would that be on there - although no terminal at the border, not impossible paper records were sent back to BKK for entry into computer.

[galt67]

I was coming here for 17 years, about 40 trips, PRIOR to getting a TE Visa.

 

The number of 'overstays': ZERO

 

And IF I had one, I certainly would 'know it.'

 

Surely a person 'remembers' that they had an overstay or not?

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Wrong! 

The application is sent to immigration, who will accept or reject it. 

That is the reason why it takes one month of processing. 

If immigration was not involved, TE could just sell visas over the counter... 

No. The only information that is given to immigration at the initial stage is what you disclose. Ukrules is correct though. You are applying for membership too the scheme. Hence you maybe accepted to become a member of Thailand Elite BUT you are also warned that due to previous overstays, immigration may not issue the visa. Then, when you go too get the visa affixed, it takes around 30 minutes which is when the real checking starts. Anything you haven't disclosed will be picked up.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, galt67 said:

I was coming here for 17 years, about 40 trips, PRIOR to getting a TE Visa.

 

The number of 'overstays': ZERO

 

And IF I had one, I certainly would 'know it.'

 

Surely a person 'remembers' that they had an overstay or not?

Why? In 21 years I've accumulated well over 100 exit stamps. I vaguely recollect perhaps 3 or 4 very short overstays many years back, but it was never a serious issue until very recently. A decade ago, immigration's view on overstay was this: "No problem, you can pay at airport."

 

It's disingenuous for people on here to to go on about overstays as though they are some sort of serious historical offence, this doesn't reflect the truth of immigration policy in previous years at all. 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, lamyai3 said:

Why? In 21 years I've accumulated well over 100 exit stamps. I vaguely recollect perhaps 3 or 4 very short overstays many years back, but it was never a serious issue until very recently. A decade ago, immigration's view on overstay was this: "No problem, you can pay at airport."

 

It's disingenuous for people on here to to go on about overstays as though they are some sort of serious historical offence, this doesn't reflect the truth of immigration policy in previous years at all. 

Then unfortunately, you are not suitable for the scheme. You are what is termed as 'Undesirable' in the eyes of immigration.

[simon43]

This is worrying news (for me).  I already have a 5-year TE visa, which expires this year in September.  But if I do a visa-run before that expiry date, then I should (not yet fully confirmed) that I'll get a further one year visa stamp which would see me through to September 2020.

 

But what then?  In the past 18 years of living in Thailand, I know that on at least 2 occasions I overstayed by one or two days, (my own fault, either due to not reading the visa expiry date correctly, or due to my departing flight date and immigration advice to pay the small fine at the airport).

 

Does that make me an 'undesirable', even though I already have a TE visa?

 

These visa rules are getting crazier and crazier...

[lamyai3]

32 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Then unfortunately, you are not suitable for the scheme. You are what is termed as 'Undesirable' in the eyes of immigration.

Being labelled as "undesirable" for an Elite visa sounds not dissimilar to being declared an unsuitable mark as a sucker for a timeshare scam.

 

No problem anyway, with the money I've saved in the past five years, I'm half way towards the purchase of a GT-200 bomb detector. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by lamyai3

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Does that make me an 'undesirable', even though I already have a TE visa?

 

These visa rules are getting crazier and crazier...

According to the hardliners, quite possibly. It seems clear immigration could turn the tables on anyone, at any time.. 

[Lovethailandelite]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

This is worrying news (for me).  I already have a 5-year TE visa, which expires this year in September.  But if I do a visa-run before that expiry date, then I should (not yet fully confirmed) that I'll get a further one year visa stamp which would see me through to September 2020.

 

But what then?  In the past 18 years of living in Thailand, I know that on at least 2 occasions I overstayed by one or two days, (my own fault, either due to not reading the visa expiry date correctly, or due to my departing flight date and immigration advice to pay the small fine at the airport).

 

Does that make me an 'undesirable', even though I already have a TE visa?

 

These visa rules are getting crazier and crazier...

You will get the extra year but your membership of TE will be finished. You will be starting again as a new member should you decide to renew. The non overstay requirements are a relatively new addition to the T&C's. Only TE can answer your question

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

According to the hardliners, quite possibly. It seems clear immigration could turn the tables on anyone, at any time.. 

Including those who consider themselves immune because they have self identified as "good" falangs. It will be interesting to see if they still think people who want to stay but don't qualify should be horse whipped and deported when the rising tide reaches them. I predict THB3m in bank indefinitely for retirement visa in the near future. I would be very surprised if the TE visa terms are not written in such a way that the rug can be pulled out from holders (why not, everything else seems to be set up that way) or new terms/charges added.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Including those who consider themselves immune because they have self identified as "good" falangs. It will be interesting to see if they still think people who want to stay but don't qualify should be horse whipped and deported when the rising tide reaches them. I predict THB3m in bank indefinitely for retirement visa in the near future. I would be very surprised if the TE visa terms are not written in such a way that the rug can be pulled out from holders (why not, everything else seems to be set up that way) or new terms/charges added.

Why would anybody, no matter which visa they are on, expect to be treated any different to the next person? A TE member on here not so long back was deported and black listed for overstay. He misunderstood how the visa works and stayed on an entry for around 18 months.

[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Why would anybody, no matter which visa they are on, expect to be treated any different to the next person? A TE member on here not so long back was deported and black listed for overstay. He misunderstood how the visa works and stayed on an entry for around 18 months.

I was referring to those who think/thought the rising tide of increased restrictions would not reach them because they assumed they were viewed as "good" falangs by the Thai authorities and were delighting in the fact that the "scum" were having their means of staying in Thailand closed off. It seems those on retirement visas assumed they were immune and were among the gloaters and now the rising tide has reached some of them. Note, I have every sympathy with those affected but who did not post gloating posts - those that did, ain't Kharma a bitch?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by mokwit

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, mokwit said:

I was referring to those who think/thought the rising tide of increased restrictions would not reach them and were delighting in the fact that the "scum" were having their means of staying in Thailand closed off. It seems those on retirement visas assumed they were immune and were among the gloaters and now the rising tide has reached some of them.

 

 

Yes I understand. IMO, and in the opinion of others that actually count, the next move will be too a Malaysian bond style system for those on retirement. Within 5 years has been muted around.

[simon43]

Have to say that I'm very concerned about all this.  I was never one of the "I'm all right Jack" crowd, but I always considered that my Elite visa would mean that extremely minor 'transgressions' could be resolved.  Now I'm thinking again...

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Then unfortunately, you are not suitable for the scheme. You are what is termed as 'Undesirable' in the eyes of immigration.

I'll wait for the first actual report of someone denied for having had a few short overstays in the past. I have no reason to take your word for what you wrote, especially considering how much nonsense you've been posting about things like the great new integrated database, etc.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Caldera
Clarity

[Brunolem]

Considering the new overstay rules, it seems to me that the sensible thing to do for any Elite visa applicant is to wait for the letter of approval... and then, before paying anything, go visit his immigration office and ask an officer to check, twice, that there is indeed no overstay in his file. 

 

Only after this confirmation would he pay the visa fee... 

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

That is not how it works. TE will ask you regarding any overstay or other previous immigration related issues you may have had in the past. They will also advise you that Immigration may not issue the visa when you arrive to have it affixed. You can stop the application there and then. If you choose to ignore the advice, you will lose your money if immigration refuse to issue the visa, the same way as some Embassy's will not refund you.
People like to think overstay isn't a big problem. It has started to become one with TE and Penang not issuing visas with any overstay. Once online application has started you will see just how much of a problem overstay has become. Wait until April and with the UK and France going too full online application. Try overstaying in the UK and US and attempt more entry's. It won't happen if you overstay. Thailand is simply catching up.

Very interesting post, but I think it is very wrong for any establishment in any country to take money of you for applying for something, refuse it, then keep your money, even if they kept a small amount to cover the cost of any time taken to consider the application.

I have said on many occasions here on Thaivisa that IMO, the Elite Visa is a very poor deal and only for the really better off people who can afford to give away the 500.000 Bt or whatever, and receive very little in return.

[humbug]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

I'll wait for the first actual report of someone denied for having had a few short overstays in the past. I have no reason to take your word for what you wrote, especially considering how much nonsense you've been posting about things like the great new integrated database, etc.

its can be so much hyperbole when some might want to influence others as the biblical times of visas. I had an overstay thanks to my embassy screwing up my passport renewel, but that was more than 5 years ago and nearly 2 years ago i received my current 5 year stamp,

did i know if there were any long discussions on my request=no,

did i know if they were 50-50 on my request=no,

i didnt have any idea, but now if another poster has stated he was asked 3 times about overstay, then if i have to change passports to receive a new visa or wait for it to renew then i will be going in person to the office on sathorn, thats if these nationalists stay around for a few more years.

Right now i am going to keep my antennas on full blast and try sifting the information on elite which i feel is useful 

Edited March 2, 2019 by humbug

[ukrules]

I have 'overstayed' 3 times, two of them came with fines.

 

This first one is from the 2010 Iceland volcano eruption and there is a note written in my passport, there's no overstay stamp or fine - this image :

 

 

When my flight was cancelled due to the volcano eruption in Iceland I believe the Eva Air flights had already been cancelled for 3 days running so there was a massive backlog and I was rebooked 3 weeks later. The above isn't an overstay stamp but it's a note, I'm not sure what it says but I paid no money to them. At first they wanted to fine me but after a long drawn out protracted negotiation they backed down, stamped me out and I ended up paying them nothing.

As you can see I was supposed to leave on April 26, 2010 but actually left on May 19th which is when the airline rebooked my flight.

 

I have two overstays in 2011, one was related to the renewal of my passport so I couldn't travel and had to wait for the new passport to arrive. It was a pain in the ass but I got it sorted in the end by paying a 6000 Baht fine at the airport with an overstay stamp.

 

 

Then there's this one which is 4 days due to bad planning on my flights.

 

 

These are not in my current passport, they're in the previous passport to this one and my current passport only has a few years left on it - I will probably renew it before applying for another TE membership in 2020 - I do plan on dragging my membership out for an extra year by leaving / returning in April

 

I wonder if this disqualifies me from renewing my Thailand Elite membership next year, apparently renewals are processed in exactly the same way as a new membership.....at the moment.

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by ukrules

[humbug]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

I have 'overstayed' 3 times, two of them came with fines.

 

This first one is from the 2010 Iceland volcano eruption and there is a note written in my passport, there's no overstay stamp or fine - this image :

 

 

When my flight was cancelled due to the volcano eruption in Iceland I believe the Eva Air flights had already been cancelled for 3 days running so there was a massive backlog and I was rebooked 3 weeks later. The above isn't an overstay stamp but it's a note, I'm not sure what it says but I paid no money to them. At first they wanted to fine me but after a long drawn out protracted negotiation they backed down, stamped me out and I ended up paying them nothing.

As you can see I was supposed to leave on April 26, 2010 but actually left on May 19th which is when the airline rebooked my flight.

 

I have two overstays in 2011, one was related to the renewal of my passport so I couldn't travel and had to wait for the new passport to arrive. It was a pain in the ass but I got it sorted in the end by paying a 6000 Baht fine at the airport with an overstay stamp.

 

 

Then there's this one which is 4 days due to bad planning on my flights.

 

 

These are not in my current passport, they're in the previous passport to this one and my current passport only has a few years left on it - I will probably renew it before applying for another TE membership in 2020 - I do plan on dragging my membership out for an extra year by leaving / returning in April

 

I wonder if this disqualifies me from renewing my Thailand Elite membership next year, apparently renewals are processed in exactly the same way as a new membership.....at the moment.

 

I actually think those already on 'may' have a better chance if they havent overstayed over the last 12-24 months. Thats me guessing and hell have no fury like an illegal nationalist. So who knows, they could turn the screws more over the next 12 months on many long term visas, my antennas are high not really because of the overstay, because it could become a new rule for many other visa types and send many of us up the kyber pass including me, so at that point it doesnt matter what long term visa, we be screwed anyway,but the way they promoted the spanish guy having an elite card, that reminds me of 7-10 years ago of publically trying to shame the visa.

Edited March 2, 2019 by humbug

[gentlemanjackdarby]

10 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Yes I understand. IMO, and in the opinion of others that actually count, the next move will be too a Malaysian bond style system for those on retirement. Within 5 years has been muted around.

And when Thailand more closely follows Malaysia's model, not only will one need a larger fixed deposit that can't be touched at all, one will also need a substantial monthly income and, as Malaysia announced in December, at least 75% of the monthly income will need to come from a 'fixed' income stream, such as a pension or a salary, not from income subject to fluctuation, such as interest income, rental income, dividends, etc.

 

In other words, Malaysia cares about the source of the income (not just a series of minimum international transfers that **could** be recycled) and expects it to be stable

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

as Malaysia announced in December

Is this  a new condition - if so was there any grandfathering?

[gentlemanjackdarby]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Is this  a new condition - if so was there any grandfathering?

I can't say for sure on that - unfortunately, the official MM2H website isn't updated frequently so, when I was considering retiring in Malaysia, I dug around and found a well-run agency with a great website that is updated frequently.

 

It's my perception that TV is strict on the posting of external links, so if you want the agency name and link, shoot me a PM.

 

The specific language used on the agent website is '...applications with income mainly from rentals & bank interests will not be acceptable.', the operative word here being 'applications'. That announcement was made in December 2018

 

So I don't think the source requirement will effect existing MM2H pass-holders since Malaysia, in the past, really seemed to want folks to take advantage of MM2H and wanted to make it easy for a foreigner to get through the application process, mainly by endorsing the use of agencies, of which the MM2H program published an official list of registered and approved agents.

 

And Malaysia, as well as every other retirement visa scheme of which I'm aware in SE Asia, doesn't do as Thailand does, i.e. annual re-qualification to stay; when those countries issue a social visit pass, SRRV, etc. it's good for a set period of time (MM2H) or a s long as one wants it (SRRV).

 

Now what happens for folks renewing in the future, we can only wait and see - Malaysia has reduced some of the benefits that were previously granted to MM2H pass-holders and they also made one very significant change a few years back, that being that folks who previously qualified based solely on a monthly income meeting the minimum program requirements now also have to make a fixed deposit of about USD 37,000

[LongTang]

Funny how two of my post regarding the fact that some more senior people may actually not recollect their 20 years long visa over stay events, and the fact that the definition of Bad Guys has now grown to encompass anyone who overstayed more then once have suddenly disappeared from the forum...

 

Am i feeling the boot of big brother? ????

[ukrules]

In time all will be revealed I guess.

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

For the above overstay where I was waiting for my new passport to arrive I asked the guy at the overstay desk if there would be any negative effect when I come back into the country.

 

He asked when I'm coming back to which I replied 'tomorrow', he replied 'well you have a new passport so no - there will be no problem'.

 

That kind of made me think that they were not logging the overstays in the computer system back then, this was back in 2011 and maybe things have changed in the last 7 or 8 years.