And another issue at airport : w re-entry retirement legit visa

[Gecko123]

34 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

- Why did she after that ask me 3 times if i made my extension by myself ?

I am intrigued by this as well. Almost as if, if an agent was involved, one course of action; if an agent wasn't involved, another course of action. I'm guessing that if an agent was involved, more lenient handling would be more likely.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Gecko123

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Doing their job is one thing but being damn right rude and nasty is totally wrong...lets face it, travel most other countries always greeted with a smile yet "land of smiles" never happens.

Have come in and out of this place 50 times over the past five years.

Never had a rude encounter.

I would do some soul searching.  Maybe your appearance or demeanor other lack of patience has created issues for you??

[Gecko123]

12 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Have come in and out of this place 50 times over the past five years.

Never had a rude encounter.

I would do some soul searching.  Maybe your appearance or demeanor other lack of patience has created issues for you??

You overlook that many of the people currently complaining about unfriendly treatment from immigration have reported that historically they too have never had any problems either.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Gecko123

[from the home of CC]

imho - You can thank all those compatriots and expats that have in the past took advantage of the system and were caught doing it. These are the Thais reactions. I find it interesting the line of questioning on whether the op applied himself, to me indicative of new agent scrutiny. If I required agent services to legitimize my visa I'd be treading carefully; personally I'd do the OA route rather than risk being caught and banned especially if I had long term roots laid here.

[ravip]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Those of us with higher-wage passports have no motivation to travel to lower-wage nations to take jobs illegally.  The purpose of a govt is to increase the standard of living of its citizens, which means keeping those who would steal jobs from citizens and undercut wages by working-cheap in the process, OUT of the country. 

 

In the USA, we have a "split system" - where immigration is told to do their job protecting us, while the border is left wide-open to illegal-immigrants to come in at the same time.  This is because it helps cut the labor-costs of transnational-corporations.

 

After entering the USA illegally, one can buy a fake green-card easily, get a real drivers-license (in many states) - and stay forever - illegally - while having children that are granted citizenship - waiting until the eventual "amnesty" happens (Orwellian term: "comprehensive immigration reform"), to encourage the next wave to enter the same way, and undercut the dwindling opportunities of the last "batch," in precisely the same fashion.

 

Sad to see similar happen to Thais from foreign-labor - and not nearly enough expats to come close to offsetting the damage.

You seems to be an exception - with higher-wage passports have no motivation to travel to lower-wage nations.

 

In the USA, we have a "split system" - where immigration is told to do their job protecting us - Thai IO are doing the same.

 

while the border is left wide-open to illegal-immigrants to come in at the same time.  This is because it helps cut the labor-costs of transnational-corporations. - very smart indeed!

 

Why are these  higher-wage passports holders (your term) cringing, whining and squirming about the 800k and 20K Baht rule? You must read TVF more to understand the higher-waged passport holders life style in Thailand.

 

Higher-wage passports? Yep... only in their attitudes.

[bkk6060]

9 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You are ignoring that many people are reporting that they have historically never had problems with immigration, and that unfriendly treatment from immigration is something which has only become noticeable in the recent past.

Which has nothing to do with my personal experiences/interactions.

[from the home of CC]

3 hours ago, garyk said:

I just went threw Immigration at LAX, what an automated breeze that was. I am American and they had automated passport machines. took me about 1 minute. Used to get grilled by immigration officers but that is a thing of the past it seems.

 

Passed threw Shanghai, China, talk about a cluster f##ck. That was a joke.

Actually made Thailand look good... haha

I've been grilled and stripped searched over 20 times when I was a kid travelling internationally back to Toronto. Once I started to gray out I breeze through everywhere. I knew there was a upside to going dinosaur.   ????  

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Sorry for the style, i’m french, and a little bit pissed-off.

I got the same shit at Aranyaphratet land border last month both on exit and entry.

What's wrong with them?

 

Q: Why do you travel so much?

A: Because I earn 10x more than you, and have plenty of spare cash for holidays, beer and hookers.

Edited March 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I would do some soul searching.  Maybe your appearance or demeanor other lack of patience has created issues for you??

I look like an elderly tourist.

What do you look like?

[Sambotte]

Everything fine, it looks like Big Joke heard me :

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1087733-big-joke-promises-ai-in-four-months-to-keep-the-bad-guys-out/

 

I'm a good guy, so in 4 months i expect no more problem at airport... ????

[BritManToo]

44 minutes ago, SammyT said:

Really? Most other countries? I'd say about 30% of the countries I've travelled to I'd describe my immigration officer as friendly. The rest they just do their job. I'd rather a competent officer not afraid of asking hard questions than someone who smiles and gives me warm fuzzies. That's just me though

At Kualur Lumpar, Manila and ChangSha, the immigration ladies were so friendly I felt I could have asked for their phone numbers and probably got them.

Edited March 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[moe666]

It seems these smaller airports is where the immigration problems abound. Stop flying those cheap airlines and go direct to swampy. The worst experience I have had was in Philippines. Trying to board for my return to Thailand. You have no onward ticket cannot go. Do not need I have retirement visa good for one year. No you need ticket, no I do not. I show the dufess the extension of stay and the r-entry permit see good for one year. No you need ticket. Let me talk to supervisor, she shows up you need ticket, no Ido not need ticket. Show her the extension of stay good for one year finally the light came on. This actually was the airline personal, same same but different

[JackThompson]

23 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

imho - You can thank all those compatriots and expats that have in the past took advantage of the system and were caught doing it.

Riiiight.  WE invented the agent-system to rip ourselves off.  On the contrary, you can thank a clique of farang-hating thieves burrowing themselves into a govt bureaucracy.

 

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

You seems to be an exception - with higher-wage passports have no motivation to travel to lower-wage nations.

Yes we do, because we can have a higher standard of living here for lower overhead costs.  It's a "win win" scenario for us and the host-country.

 

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

In the USA, we have a "split system" - where immigration is told to do their job protecting us - Thai IO are doing the same.

If so, then they would not exclude those from Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia from the 2x land-border-entry rule.

 

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

while the border is left wide-open to illegal-immigrants to come in at the same time.  This is because it helps cut the labor-costs of transnational-corporations. - very smart indeed!

And destroys the civilization of the country - but who cares about 100 million "little people" citizens who were booted from the middle-class - right?

 

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

Why are these  higher-wage passports holders (your term) cringing, whining and squirming about the 800k and 20K Baht rule? You must read TVF more to understand the higher-waged passport holders life style in Thailand.

In the case of the 800K, because they change the rules - cannot xfer once and then live on it for the year, anymore.   And similar to the mo-income method - they changed the rules on people who retired here meeting the then-current expectations - and did not grandfather them in.

 

As to the 20K rule - it is a problem to have to dangerously carry unnecessary cash, when electronic banking exists.

 

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

Higher-wage passports? Yep... only in their attitudes.

Passports from countries where higher-wages are prevalent.  You are dodging the point, of course, which is that we have No Reason At All to travel to Thailand to take illegal-jobs, in order to be paid less than we can get working at McDonalds in our passport-countries.  Therefore, there is no reason to scrutinize us in the same way that someone With That Motivation (and a strong one, at that) would have, when entering a higher-wage nation. 

[farangx]

32 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You overlook that many of the people currently complaining about unfriendly treatment from immigration have reported that historically they too have never had any problems either.

I have not experience any hassle by IOs at airports and checkpoints here despite my passports were filled with TI stamps and stickers, maybe a doubtful look once in a while.  I suspect their English is holding them back.

 

[onera1961]

27 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I got the same shit at Aranyaphratet land border last month both on exit and entry.

What's wrong with them?

 

Q: Why do you travel so much?

A: Because I earn 10x more than you, and have plenty of spare cash for holidays, beer and hookers.

Last October I reported in this forum that I was also questioned with an O-A visa. That was my 10th entry in 6-months on an O-A and most travels were back and forth from USA, Portugal, Spain, and Switzerland. He asked me what do you do in Thailand? I said, I am retired. He said, but you don't stay in Thailand. (Was going to say who the hell is going to stay year round in a police state to inhale smogs) but controlled myself and said I am retired and doing some traveling. He then said something in Thai. I said, sorry I don't understand Thai. He then asked me why? It went on for a few minutes and each question was meant to test your level of tolerance to their idiotic line of questioning. Eventually, he stamped me in with one year permission. 

Just to be fair, I was also questioned in Zurich airport if I live in Thailand and if I had a ticket out of Schengen area. But it was more pleasant chit chat type rather than interrogation. 
 

Edited March 5, 2019 by onera1961

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

They are actually deposited, but just for a few hours.  I spoke to several agents a couple weeks ago, when weighing my options (but decided against using an agent).  The trick is that immigration waive the seasoning if you use an agent (for some unknown reason).

 

I agree with the rest of your interpretation of events.  The new rules only change seasoning (which can be waived, faked, or ignored) - so, the agent-game was carefully preserved in the new rules.  Only making agents illegal would have any effect, and it is clear why that isn't on the table.

 

But I don't think the only purpose is agent-money, the other purpose is to drive most of us out of the country - while ensuring a higher percentage of those that remain pay "tribute" to do so via agents.  "Best of both worlds," as it were.

Interesting. You know, they left the marriage visa guys alone. I guess they got the "good family man. Him take care Thai wife" free pass. Thing is, a lot of guys on retirement visas are married, or are in long term relationships with Thai women. If they're thinking older unmarried guys are driving the sex industry, probably ought to just ban male tourists traveling alone while they're at it. I'm watching this closely, but my gut is telling me to 'follow the money.' If I see Big Joke firing corrupt immigration officers and cracking down on visa agents, I'll be delighted to admit I was wrong.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Gecko123

[Mavideol]

and I thought it only happen to me, thus kept my mouth shut, but was kept for more than 2 hours at the counter because used the wrong visa number and it was a lady also at Don Mueng coming from Macau, after all of that the security customs person saw 2 tubes of tooth past (Chinese green tea) and she told me to disregard one, that I could only carry one, never ever had anything like that happening to me before, it's getting worse and worse here

[yuiop]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

Thailand does not care anymore about expats.

To be honest, yes it definitely seems so. Should anyone be surprised? Now, I am NOT generalising here, but the way many Westerners behave, they definitely deserve it. Especially at long immigration queues, when a Westerner is asked for the Departure/Arrival card that he had misplaced or forgotten, the reaction is absolutely hilarious, to put it very mildly... Eyes rolled up, face snarling, hands spread out and telling all and sundry "OOhhhh my God"!

People will not tolerate arrogance always and every time. It is time up for Westerners (not all) to realise that they are not Gods gift to mankind and rules apply to them too. What gives them the special right to be arrogant? Just read the majority of posts here at TVF and it should be simple enough for you to realise what I am trying to say.

 

Yes! Not ONLY Thailand that does not care anymore about Western expats, but many other 3rd world developing countries too have the same feeling.

 

Time up for a behavioural change, me thinks. Blaming the Chinese, Russians, Indians are whinings of the desperate and the losers.

 

I agree with you here.

Of course generalising may be often wrong, but you hit the nerve on this.

I've personally witnessed some very rude and disturbing behaviors towards the thai made by westerners who think they're gods on earth and, anyhow, superior to them.

Let's not talk about lack of respect for local customs and traditions.

[yuiop]

2 hours ago, MARK74 said:

what a load of BS. But maybe typing it out made it almost seem real to you and perked up your day a little. Now back to reality Ravip

This is the kind of attitude we're talking about.

God sent you here to make this country a better place.

[Sealbash]

Noone is bent out of shape by an IO asking questions- however- how the question is asked determines how the person feels after the  meeting. The OP indicated he was asked for a bank book- absolute nonsense and over the top-  and then to have the document flung over instead of being placed on the table or handed to the  person shows complete rudeness.
 
Asking why a person travels to several destinations in Thailand makes no sense- one does not have to file a TM30 unless leaving the country and returning.  I travel all over Thailand- so what?
 
There is a big difference in being asked direct, pertinent questions when entering a country in a firm but fair manner that  conducting a criminal interrogation . IMO- tje OP held his irritation- answered the questionms but has a right to feel he was treat poorly.

What you say is true. But the op is still only one side of this story. I would suggest that his treatment was an exception, not the norm. What we can only speculate about is why he is the exception. Was the IO having a bad day? Was there something about the OP that prompted these questions? Only speculation. One side of the story.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ravip]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Riiiight.  WE invented the agent-system to rip ourselves off.  On the contrary, you can thank a clique of farang-hating thieves burrowing themselves into a govt bureaucracy.

 

Yes we do, because we can have a higher standard of living here for lower overhead costs.  It's a "win win" scenario for us and the host-country.

 

If so, then they would not exclude those from Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia from the 2x land-border-entry rule.

 

And destroys the civilization of the country - but who cares about 100 million "little people" citizens who were booted from the middle-class - right?

 

In the case of the 800K, because they change the rules - cannot xfer once and then live on it for the year, anymore.   And similar to the mo-income method - they changed the rules on people who retired here meeting the then-current expectations - and did not grandfather them in.

 

As to the 20K rule - it is a problem to have to dangerously carry unnecessary cash, when electronic banking exists.

 

Passports from countries where higher-wages are prevalent.  You are dodging the point, of course, which is that we have No Reason At All to travel to Thailand to take illegal-jobs, in order to be paid less than we can get working at McDonalds in our passport-countries.  Therefore, there is no reason to scrutinize us in the same way that someone With That Motivation (and a strong one, at that) would have, when entering a higher-wage nation. 

Riiiight.  WE invented the agent-system to rip ourselves off.
Why? Higher waged people cannot be comforterable in there home countries?

 

Yes we do, because we can have a higher standard of living here for lower overhead costs.  It's a "win win" scenario for us and the host-country.
You are contradicting yourself! How can you have a 'higher standard'of living in a corrupt, dirty, dangerous etc etc country?

 

In the case of the 800K, because they change the rules - cannot xfer once and then live on it for the year, anymore.   And similar to the mo-income method - they changed the rules on people who retired here meeting the then-current expectations - and did not grandfather them in.
Is 800K Baht a back-breaking amount for a higher waged expat from the West?

 

As to the 20K rule - it is a problem to have to dangerously carry unnecessary cash, when electronic banking exists.
Is 20K Baht a dangerous amount for a higher waged expat from the West who is coming to a country to live a comforterble life?

 

Therefore, there is no reason to scrutinize us in the same way that someone With That Motivation (and a strong one, at that) would have, when entering a higher-wage nation.
Hahahahahaha... that famous website will be of help, I guess. Gofundme and the likes...

 

What a pathetic explanation from a high waged, higher standard of living person.

 

In a nutshell, a high waged, high standard of living person from a developed country will never live permanently in an undeveloped country - mostly its someone who has lost his footing who would migrate to a 'lesser' country.

[MARK74]

2 minutes ago, yuiop said:

This is the kind of attitude we're talking about.

God sent you here to make this country a better place.

please do explain my attitude? god sent me here to make this country a better place? are you high or something? or a person with a chip on your shoulder about westerners?

[Mavideol]

58 minutes ago, ravip said:

In the USA, we have a "split system" - where immigration is told to do their job protecting us - Thai IO are doing the same.

do you know if the USA IO is as corrupted as the Thai IO is, you can't compare apples and oranges, the USA IO may be protecting the border the Thai IO is protecting his own pocket and couldn't care less about protecting the border

[ravip]

1 minute ago, MARK74 said:

please do explain my attitude? god sent me here to make this country a better place? are you high or something? or a person with a chip on your shoulder about westerners?

With your attitude, you will never see the big picture. It is this very attitude of yours that people everywhere despises. No, you will never understand it.

Long time ago someone said... "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." 

[onera1961]

17 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

but was kept for more than 2 hours at the counter because used the wrong visa number and it was a lady also at Don Mueng coming from Macau,

What? You were questioned for two hours at the counter? Unbelievable. 

[MARK74]

2 minutes ago, ravip said:

With your attitude, you will never see the big picture. It is this very attitude of yours that people everywhere despises. No, you will never understand it.

Long time ago someone said... "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." 

hilarious, the thread has gone beyond my expectations. so could you please explain my attitude (that everyone despises no less lol)

Edited March 5, 2019 by MARK74

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Sambotte said:

To sum up...

 

- Visa number ok no big deal but easy to print on the TM thing "visa or exemption or re-entry number". How could one guess otherwise the requested VISA number is in fact the re-entry number ? ????

 

- Change of address : here i think it's a hassle, or a big mess with their system (that could explain the mood of the IO). Yes i like to move, and nowhere i saw that retirement = obsolete and barely moving ????

And so i made my second extension in a place different from the first extension (no problem), and have been traveling inside and outside Thailand since. Is that a crime, or a problem with their system ?

For example i was living in Khao Lak, and went to see a ex-girlfriend in Phuket for 5 days in a resort. Came back : low season, no immigration in Khao Lak. As i read the chief of immigration or police insisted we farang must declare when we move for a day and come back in a house, i went to the police, and explained : well they had no clue how to proceed (where not even aware of that), and called immigration in Phang-Nga (far away), with no better procedure, and finally told me no it's ok ! No problem with police officers either, friendly actually.

When i last travelled outside Thailand, i tried to make a re-entry permit at Phuket immigration (where i was in hotel then), and i missed a paper from the hotel relative to my address (although it's computerized, so why this mess again ?)... I made it (the re-entry) at airport (week-end otherwise i have been told it's not working) : the lady (yep again) was not happy, but did not told me anything else than i could have done it before at immigration...  

So it looks like their system are not upgraded to their law i would say, so what can one farang do ? ????

At least the re-entry thing is a non-sense (why not make it by default i wonder ?), and the complex notification of addresses is another non-sense (at least with the automatic hotel registration).

 

Here the question is still : does Thailand NOT WANT retirees to be able to move ?? Making it complex even for a week-end in resort or a short travel ? Not good for business ????

 

And now i am well yep in another city ???? I will worry for the 90 days thing, since i am in hotel now so nothing to declare.

But frankly it's a hassle with a not working system, they just should simplify and make it work better. Not accusing the farang at airport immigration to move too much ! Could be the explanation, but...

 

- Why did she after that ask me 3 times if i made my extension by myself ? And asking for my bankbook (and not being happy with it) ? And taking so much time like she desperatly was searching for a excuse to denie me entry ? Or maybe she was lost and waiting instruction from a supervisor, possible, she was like talking alone in Thai that was weird.

 

- For being polite i disagree with some here who say it's normal not to be polite. Old man, not same education maybe ? And force officers are not exempt imo.

 

- Last, i am not irritated by this incident alone, s. happens, but if i put all together what worries me is the strong perception Thailand is not expat-friendly anymore ! That's the point. And, secondary, to have to now worry even with a (expensive with the 800k) retirement visa if i want to travel abroad and come back. Not so good business here from the Thaï ? Strange (indeed).

 

 

The IMO suggested that I read the immigration law whereby it would explain the reason they question me, I pointed to them that the immigration law shown to me clearly indicated that law was a recommendation only and should not be constructed as a legal bond, the final decision can only be made by the officer responsible, the captain, I show that to them and it created more aggravation, in these situations the less we say the better it is, we know they don't like us, for them we are all millionaires

[ravip]

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

do you know if the USA IO is as corrupted as the Thai IO is, you can't compare apples and oranges, the USA IO may be protecting the border the Thai IO is protecting his own pocket and couldn't care less about protecting the border

You mean to say the USA IO's are 100% legit?

Good. Case closed.

[MARK74]

17 minutes ago, yuiop said:

This is the kind of attitude we're talking about.

God sent you here to make this country a better place.

 

9 minutes ago, ravip said:

With your attitude, you will never see the big picture. It is this very attitude of yours that people everywhere despises. No, you will never understand it.

Long time ago someone said... "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." 

still waiting or are you struggling a little?

[Mavideol]

7 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

What? You were questioned for two hours at the counter? Unbelievable. 

yeah, last December, and imagine the face of the people behind me, she moved to the side and call somebody to replace her at the counter, forgot to say that she also claimed I had too many stamps, that I traveled too much and why did I stay so long in China & Macau