And another issue at airport : w re-entry retirement legit visa

[Golden Triangle]

In the last 8 years I have been in and out of Thailand many times, Bali, Singapore, UK etc always had a re entry permit but don't recollect ever having to write a number on the TM6 or anything else, they just stamp the re entry permit used and I went on my merry way, have things changed ??

 

[SammyT]

40 minutes ago, Otis Cribelcoblis said:

There is so much wrong with the logical flow of your argument that I don't know where to begin. 

 

You're obviously high-maintenance so go on your way.  You're not worth my time.

Resorting to a condescending attempt at belittling me and then reverting to an ad-hominem response, while doing nothing to actually try and rebut my argument. Well done. You're good at this debating thing. 

 

I'm the one who is high maintenance? As opposed to all the people on here who are upset because an IO didn't smile at them?

 

You never addressed my point though (presumably because you can't) - do you expect the immigration officers in your home country to ask questions of foreigners entering your borders? If so, why should it be any different when a westerner enters Thailand?

 

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

In the last 8 years I have been in and out of Thailand many times, Bali, Singapore, UK etc always had a re entry permit but don't recollect ever having to write a number on the TM6 or anything else, they just stamp the re entry permit used and I went on my merry way, have things changed ??

You are supposed to fully fill out the TM6 form. When you fail to do so, immigration officials vary in terms of whether they want to make an issue over it.

EDIT: It is worth your while to put the re-entry permit number/visa number in the appropriate box because it reduces the chance of the official making a mistake.

Edited March 5, 2019 by BritTim

[SammyT]

28 minutes ago, Nong Khai Man said:

 Happens to me often when I travel back to NZ - immigration officer questioning why I travel to Asia so much etc. ....

 I Hope you told him " It's For the CHEAP Pussy "

Humour aside, purchasing sex isn't really a necessity for me, nor something I'd do - much less brag about it to a border official. I guess that puts me in the minority on these boards...

[Sealbash]

Sounds like one side of a story


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[SammyT]

1 minute ago, Sealbash said:

Sounds like one side of a story


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Shhhh, don't say that too loud - the "anti-immigration" gang on here will have you know that westerners should be able to come and go from Thailand as they please, on whatever visa they please, without any hassle from immigration because Thailand needs their expat dollars...

[onera1961]

37 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

But here she was like accusing me of changing places in Thailand first.

How did she know that you changed places in Thailand often? Is she looking at all TM 30s in her computer? 

Edited March 5, 2019 by onera1961

[SammyT]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

40 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

But here she was like accusing me of changing places in Thailand first.

How did she know that you changed places in Thailand often? Is she looking at all TM 30s in her computer? 

I presume it will be because quite a few hotels and guesthouses register all their guests with immigration. So she would have seen all of the places the OP had stayed while travelling/on holiday

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

How did she know that you changed places in Thailand often? Is she looking at all TM 30s in her computer? 

Speculation: Not being busy, she tried to play detective. I am guessing she looked at all the extension stamps and re-entry permits, looking at where each was issued. Immigration may also have a list of offices that are thought to allow agent assisted extensions. Maybe, one of the extensions made her try to be Columbo hoping to trip the OP up.

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, Sambotte said:

Then she asked to see my bankbook !!! First here too. Had it but not updated, she throw it back to me saying « no good » or something...

what next?  demand to see utility receipts?

[Vacuum]

1 hour ago, yuiop said:

I agree with you, it seems farang are not welcome anymore by thai immigration/government.

Get a Chinese passport, and they'll roll out the red carpet for you.

[Gecko123]

The immigration officer's comment that "you have been too many places in Thailand" has to be TM-30 Housemaster related. I'm wondering if OP was flagged primarily because he wasn't re-reporting his address on the TM-30 after every domestic and international trip he took and immigration knew it. It certainly sounds like they knew he travelled a lot within Thailand.

 

What the OP said about the immigration officer just looking for any problems they could find, was similar to an experience I had when I renewed my retirement visa last month, recounted here: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1086173-long-term-foreigners-staying-or-leaving/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-13878896

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if what is really going on with immigration isn't an industrial scale feeding frenzy of corruption where retired Western expats aren't being targeted because they aren't welcome, but because they are seen as lucrative targets for being milked by visa agents, who in turn line the pockets of corrupt immigration officers!!!! The playbook is simple: make dealing with immigration as difficult as possible in order to drive (perceived as) wealthy Western expats into the arms of visa agents who in turn will provide kickbacks to immigration officers.

 

The tightening of the financial requirements may also be related to this. My checking about how the financial requirements are gamed suggests that rarely are funds actually deposited into the expat's account. If that's true, then the only other way this requirement can be met is if documents are forged or the requirement is waived by an immigration officer,  both of which could easily be detected if immigration audited the applications, or set up a liaison with the major banks to verify the bank letters were bonafide. But you never hear about this type of corruption being detected or rooted out, and you have to wonder why. With early reports saying that the same people who were gaming the system before can still do it by paying a little more money, you have to start to wonder if the tightened requirements really serve little other purpose than to make meeting these financial requirements more lucrative for visa agents and immigration officers.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Gecko123

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, SammyT said:

You never addressed my point though (presumably because you can't) - do you expect the immigration officers in your home country to ask questions of foreigners entering your borders? If so, why should it be any different when a westerner enters Thailand?

Yes but I can, and will.

Of course Immigration Officers are trained to ask questions to satisfy themselves that the passenger is a genuine tourist, retiree, business person, or will comply with whatever reason they are seeking leave to enter the particular country, but their questions are expected to be relevent and antagnising passengers is not the way to do it, intentional or not.
It seems to me, judging by what the OP has described, that this pariticular IO was asking questions that were totally irrelevent and unnecessary, and judging on the hoof.
IO's are not that particularly well paid and it's a pretty soul destroying job, but a job they're not forced to do, thankfully most IO's around the world are pretty proffesional though many come with a preconceived mindset. 
In all the years I've lived here I have never once taken any of my bankbooks out of the country, why on earth would I do so?  
And yes, the Re-entry permit number is the correct number to put in the visa number box as without a re-entry permit the permission to remain would be lost.

[Golden Triangle]

33 minutes ago, BritTim said:

You are supposed to fully fill out the TM6 form. When you fail to do so, immigration officials vary in terms of whether they want to make an issue over it.

EDIT: It is worth your while to put the re-entry permit number/visa number in the appropriate box because it reduces the chance of the official making a mistake.

Just checked my old passport, and yep, lo & behold there is a number on the re entry permit ???? But as I say I have never entered that number on any TM6 and it has never been a problem, the last one I used was back in 2017 when me & the Mrs came back in from Malaysia on the train. I will pay more attention in future ????

[Thaidream]

58 minutes ago, SammyT said:

You never addressed my point though (presumably because you can't) - do you expect the immigration officers in your home country to ask questions of foreigners entering your borders? If so, why should it be any different when a westerner enters Thailand?

As an American- I expect US Immigration Officers to provide a simple smile to myself and all entrants and to calmly and politely ask any questions they need to ask.

I do not expect to be interrogated as a potential criminal; to be asked for things that are not normal (like my bank book) or to have documents thrown back at me.  I also do not expert to be scolded as to why I would  go to various domestic locations in the country when I am a temporary visitor.

I also expect an Immigration Officer to say Welcome Home when I return to my own country or Welcome to Thailand when I enter Thailand.   Unfortunately, it no longer happens anywhere.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As an American- I expect US Immigration Officers to provide a simple smile to myself and all entrants and to calmly and politely ask any questions they need to ask.

I do not expect to be interrogated as a potential criminal; to be asked for things that are not normal (like my bank book) or to have documents thrown back at me.  I also do not expert to be scolded as to why I would  go to various domestic locations in the country when I am a temporary visitor.

I also expect an Immigration Officer to say Welcome Home when I return to my own country or Welcome to Thailand when I enter Thailand.   Unfortunately, it no longer happens anywhere.

Part of the ‘Profiling technique’ is to put you on the spot, to place you in a position of mental discomfort and see how you respond.

 

Its not an Immigration Officers job to welcome you home (that’s up to your family), it’s an Immigration Officers job to ensure there are no unauthorised entries. 

 

Some seem to have a misunderstanding of these roles and expect them to behave like service personel. Its the same when discussion of the Embassies are concerned, some expect ‘special treatment’ just for being a citizen. Some just do not understand these roles and have their preconceived notions of how they should be treated.

[garyk]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

actually, the  most impolite and miserable Immigration officials I have ever had the misfortune to interact with have been in US Airports. Thai's don't come close.  

I just went threw Immigration at LAX, what an automated breeze that was. I am American and they had automated passport machines. took me about 1 minute. Used to get grilled by immigration officers but that is a thing of the past it seems.

 

Passed threw Shanghai, China, talk about a cluster f##ck. That was a joke.

Actually made Thailand look good... haha

Edited March 5, 2019 by garyk

[SammyT]

24 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

As an American- I expect US Immigration Officers to provide a simple smile to myself and all entrants and to calmly and politely ask any questions they need to ask.

I do not expect to be interrogated as a potential criminal; to be asked for things that are not normal (like my bank book) or to have documents thrown back at me.  I also do not expert to be scolded as to why I would  go to various domestic locations in the country when I am a temporary visitor.

 I also expect an Immigration Officer to say Welcome Home when I return to my own country or Welcome to Thailand when I enter Thailand.   Unfortunately, it no longer happens anywhere.

They're immigration officers, not maître d'hôtels. 

[richard_smith237]

When entering the UK my Wife is politely asked a handful of questions in a firm authoritive tone... i.e.

- Why are you here?

- For how long are you staying?

- Where are you staying?

- How are you getting there?

 

She doesn’t get flustered, her English is spot on. She answers the questions politely and promptly after which the Officer usually says have a nice stay or enjoy your Christmas etc... 

 

But, I imagine that if my Wife were to become hesitant or have difficulty answering any of these questions she may be moved aside for further questioning - the officer has just profiled my wife to just check if she is a genuine visitor who knows what she is doing etc... she has not been caught in a lie and started getting flustered etc... 

 

When entering Thailand no one ever speaks to me. They just look at my passport, look at me, stamp a page and with complete and total indifference plonk my passport back on the counter, I take it and walk off without so much as a word... 

 

I don’t expect anyone to be polite doing this job...  I’m not looking for great welcome, just hassle free entry.

[SammyT]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Part of the ‘Profiling technique’ is to put you on the spot, to place you in a position of mental discomfort and see how you respond.

  

Its not an Immigration Officers job to welcome you home (that’s up to your family), it’s an Immigration Officers job to ensure there are no unauthorised entries. 

  

Some seem to have a misunderstanding of these roles and expect them to behave like service personel. Its the same when discussion of the Embassies are concerned, some expect ‘special treatment’ just for being a citizen. Some just do not understand these roles and have their preconceived notions of how they should be treated.

Spot on. The OP's side of the story is exactly that - one side of the story. Perhaps the OP is a bit precious and perceives simple questioning by an official as an affront to his right to be in Thailand, and therefore feels he was "interrogated". I've been asked questions by IO's before, it's not a big deal. But there is a huge difference between persistent questioning and interrogation. It's a shame most of the posters here have decided that it must have been an interrogation that was conducted, as opposed to an IO asking questions about someone who is staying in all parts of the country, possibly in breach of their TM30. 

 

The funny thing is, the people who are most upset about this are of the demographic that lament that millennials are entitled and precious about things. 

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Some seem to have a misunderstanding of these roles and expect them to behave like service personel. Its the same when discussion of the Embassies are concerned, some expect ‘special treatment’ just for being a citizen. Some just do not understand these roles and have their preconceived notions of how they should be treated.

I do not expect to be treated at every entry as a potential undesirable  or spoken to in  a loud and unfriendly manner unless I have been suspected of committing a crime.  The vast majority of people who enter a country are legitimate and someone holding a Retirement Extension in Thailand has already been vetted.  The IO's actions were over the top.

 

As a returning American with a Us Passport- there would be no reason to 'grill'  anyone- If they were suspected of carrying contraband they could be referred to customs check. Why I visit Thailand or any other country  a lot is none of their business.  It's called freedom  and enshrined in most Constitutions. However, if I was visiting North Korea several times a year- I would expect an inquiry.

 

I do not expect Immigration Officers anywhere to provide  the same service I would get in a restaurant or a hotel. They are not service personnel   However, as a human being- I expect to be treated with fairness; dignity and a modicum of courtesy.  The surly attitude that some officers display shows poor training and a lack of how to do their job. The concept of putting people under pressure by raising one's voice or asking outlandish questions is an outdated technique.

 

In fact, not that long ago- the whole Immigration and Customs Division at Los Angeles International Airport received so many complaints about unreasonable behavior of their Immigration and Customs Officers  being surly; asking inappropriate questions the Inspector General Office did an investigation and officers were released; transferred and sent for  'added training'.

 

 

 

[SammyT]

58 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Of course Immigration Officers are trained to ask questions to satisfy themselves that the passenger is a genuine tourist, retiree, business person, or will comply with whatever reason they are seeking leave to enter the particular country, but their questions are expected to be relevent and antagnising passengers is not the way to do it, intentional or not.
 It seems to me, judging by what the OP has described, that this pariticular IO was asking questions that were totally irrelevent and unnecessary, and judging on the hoof.

 

But we're relying heavily on the OP's perception of how the questions were ask. The OP seems pretty flustered and agitated by it all, so maybe they perceive these things differently to many others. 

 

Where the person has been staying is completely relevant to the TM30. Of course an IO will judge "on the hoof" - they don't have the luxury of being able to do half an hour of groundwork on each person who comes through their kiosk. 

 

All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of expats bent out of shape that an IO dare question one of their own. Immigration questions are meant to only be reserved for other races, right?

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, SammyT said:

All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of expats bent out of shape that an IO dare question one of their own. Immigration questions are meant to only be reserved for other races, right?

Noone is bent out of shape by an IO asking questions- however- how the question is asked determines how the person feels after the  meeting. The OP indicated he was asked for a bank book- absolute nonsense and over the top-  and then to have the document flung over instead of being placed on the table or handed to the  person shows complete rudeness.

 

Asking why a person travels to several destinations in Thailand makes no sense- one does not have to file a TM30 unless leaving the country and returning.  I travel all over Thailand- so what?

 

There is a big difference in being asked direct, pertinent questions when entering a country in a firm but fair manner that  conducting a criminal interrogation . IMO- tje OP held his irritation- answered the questionms but has a right to feel he was treat poorly.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Question : is there a law saying a retirement visa implies not changing address/town ?

 

I might expect it if I had a Chonburi retirement ext and had landed at Chiang Mai or Phuket.  Having a retirement ext from Chonburi does mean you live in that area and can only move elsewhere with a TM 28 backed up by a TM 30. Never had an issue myself..

[Pilotman]

54 minutes ago, garyk said:

I just went threw Immigration at LAX, what an automated breeze that was. I am American and they had automated passport machines. took me about 1 minute. Used to get grilled by immigration officers but that is a thing of the past it seems.

 

Passed threw Shanghai, China, talk about a cluster f##ck. That was a joke.

Actually made Thailand look good... haha

try that as a none American, you normally get treated like a criminal, or potential terrorist.   

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Pilotman said:

try that as a none American, you normally get treated like a criminal, or potential terrorist.   

 

Having never been to the USA I am unable to comment first hand on any experience with Immigration and Airport security. But, I have heard some pretty awful things. 

 

I often wonder what would happen if after flying across to the US, the Immigration are so impolite I just figure... “You know what, I can’t bothered taking with a dick, just send me home”....

 

 

[garyk]

11 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

try that as a none American, you normally get treated like a criminal, or potential terrorist.   

Kinda like an American traveling to China or Thailand... ????

[phuketrichard]

who travels out of Thailand with their bank book?
in 34 years i NEVER have

Nor have i ever been questioned at immigration and at times i was leaving the country every other week with a 1 year extension and  multiple re entry permit

 

sounds like she didn't get laid the night before

or some guys just have shit luck

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

who travels out of Thailand with their bank book?
in 34 years i NEVER have

Nor have i ever been questioned at immigration and at times i was leaving the country every other week with a 1 year extension and  multiple re entry permit

 

sounds like she didn't get laid the night before

or some guys just have shit luck

Indeed... Who even updates their Bank-Book (or as Thai’s love to call it ‘book-bank’).

 

Mine gets updated about once every 2 or 3 years !... 

 

I’ve never been questioned by Immigration either....

 

In retrospect it would appear the Op just had a very stroppy immigration officer, nothing more to it than that.

Edited March 5, 2019 by richard_smith237

[Pilotman]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Having never been to the USA I am unable to comment first hand on any experience with Immigration and Airport security. But, I have heard some pretty awful things. 

 

I often wonder what would happen if after flying across to the US, the Immigration are so impolite I just figure... “You know what, I can’t bothered taking with a dick, just send me home”....

 

 

They probably would. 

 

Actually, the clever thing to do is fly Aer ingus through Dublin or Shannon airports, as you clear immigration there in Ireland and they are much more accommodating. You are then a domestic passenger when you arrive in the US.