Asked to show bank book again

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Most likely yes.

This is why I label these changes as ONEROUS.

This is why many people are strongly considering leaving Thailand. 

If we're not pushed out now, there are strong signs we will be later.

Over basically nothing.

That is no way for people to be living as they age. 
It's not humane.

That's why the monthly income method is not the best choice.  It's the choice of the skint set who can't put 800k in the bank.  I really think they should re think living here.  They should move to a more humane place. 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

That's why the monthly income method is not the best choice.  It's the choice of the skint set who can't put 800k in the bank.  I really think they should re think living here.  They should move to a more humane place. 

Personally, I think every single retired expat here should be thinking about leaving now. Not necessarily based on the recent changes. but what they REPRESENT as to the level of unreasonableness of what can be expected of the immigration laws here, currently now and going forward with future onerous changes. Also, new people, why would you come here? You're not a respected retired expat here. You're a SUSPECT. Maybe you think no big deal but several years down the line when you've made your "home" here, feeling a totally false residence security here that is all an ILLUSION, when your bridge back home may be very difficult, imagine how you'll feel then when the immigration laws bite you in the arse. Which you can pretty much predict, they will. 

 

Or you could buy an Elite Card. Sure, but where is the guarantee that the visa associated with the card will REALLY be honored without new conditions for the full term of years you have purchased? Answer -- there is no guarantee.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Personally, I think every single retired expat here should be thinking about leaving now.

Are you considering taking your own advice?

 

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're a SUSPECT

What does a typical suspect look like.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Are you considering taking your own advice?

 

What does a typical suspect look like.

Yes, of course I am thinking about it just as I suggest everyone else to at least think about it, but I am also considering taking the risk of buying an elite card.

If I didn't have an expensive hard to sell asset here, I would definitely be leaving. 

A typical suspect looks like anyone that is living here without Thai nationality. Bona fide tourists are welcome. 

I get it from previous exchanges with you that you think these recent changes are no big deal. Sorry, I strongly disagree. They represent a historically major SHAKEOUT. You'd have to be a fool to ignore that even in cases where your personal situation leaves you currently unaffected. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[whitefarang]

find a lawyer ...you already have proof you are married so they should not bother you asking for more proof....how much proof more proof can they ask for. They are just probing to see how much they can bother and stress you .It should be stopped directly or they will continue giving you a hard time .

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, but I am also considering taking the risk of buying an elite card.

Dead money.

Just stick 800K in an FD account and forget about it, if you can afford the Elite.

At least the cash is still yours.

 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If I didn't have an expensive hard to sell asset here, I would definitely be leaving. 

That's probably the biggest reason for most sticking it out.

 

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A typical suspect looks like anyone that is living here without Thai nationality. Bona fide tourists are welcome.

How would a Thai distinguish between the two, are they considering neck collars for long termers again.

[Jingthing]

They can tell whether you're a tourist or not when they look at your passport. 

I'm not convinced the Elite Card isn't worth it just to not have to deal with immigration (at least based on their current promise). 
Yes, I totally agree being stuck with large assets in Thailand and/or marriage/relationship to Thais are real and valid motivations to NOT leave. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Personally, I think every single retired expat here should be thinking about leaving now. Not necessarily based on the recent changes. but what they REPRESENT as to the level of unreasonableness of what can be expected of the immigration laws here, currently now and going forward with future onerous changes. //

A rather ridiculous statement IMHO. You should realise that not everyone is in the same case of you - because not using the same method or not from one of the 3 bad countries - and that many expats have no problem with their visa/extension.

As for myself by example the process is easy (Embassy Letter), requires only one trip to Immigration per year, and didn't change since the first year I use it. So why should I think about leaving? Many expats in this same or similar easy case.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

A rather ridiculous statement IMHO. You should realise that not everyone is in the same case of you - because not using the same method or not from one of the 3 bad countries - and that many expats have no problem with their visa/extension.

As for myself by example the process is easy (Embassy Letter), requires only one trip to Immigration per year, and didn't change since the first year I use it. So why should I think about leaving? Many expats in this same or similar easy case.

For NOW.

Whatever, dude, don't see the writing on the wall. Your life. 
Also you don't have my permission to ever change the emphasis on my posts. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For NOW.

Whatever, dude, don't see the writing on the wall. Your life. 
Also you don't have my permission to ever change the emphasis on my posts. 

Get a life dude.

 

Quote

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

He never changed the content of your post, he just emphasised a particular part he was referring to by underscoring.

I don't see that as a breach of rules.

 

You could be accused of antagonising other members with your comments.

Quote

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Common sense prevail, no harm done.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Get a life dude.

 

He never changed the content of your post, he just emphasised a particular part he was referring to by underscoring.

I don't see that as a breach of rules.

 

You could be accused of antagonising other members with your comments.

Common sense prevail, no harm done.

I've acknowledged we have different POVs about the real meaning of these recent changes. I think they are very serious signs of immigration matters becoming much more like POLICE ENFORCEMENT matters taken to absurd levels of INFLEXIBILITY and strictness. I think sensible people will take these as serious and DARK changes worthy of serious consideration about their future viability over the long term of living in Thailand. If you're not impacted now, to think you'll always be safe later is just foolish. 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Common sense? I see none in your post. Don't bother baiting me further. I've acknowledged we have different POVs about the real meaning of these recent changes. I think they are a very serious scene of immigration matters become much more like POLICE ENFORCEMENT matters. If you're not impacted now, to think you'll always be safe later is just foolish. 

Nothings guaranteed in life, not even life itself.

 

I hear your concerns and you raise some good points and questions, but if you can predict the future of what may or may not happen, your wasting your talents.

 

Try getting a Visa for a Thai to live in the UK, Australia, or the US, then you'll have something tangible to complain about.

Thai Immigration rules and policies are a cinch compared to western Countries.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Nothings guaranteed in life, not even life itself.

 

I hear your concerns and you raise some good points and questions, but if you can predict the future of what may or may not happen, your wasting your talents.

 

Try getting a Visa for a Thai to live in the UK, Australia, or the US, then you'll have something tangible to complain about.

Thai Immigration rules and policies are a cinch compared to western Countries.

This isn't about migration to western countries, and you know that.

It's shameless whataboutism that has no relevance. 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Personally, I think every single retired expat here should be thinking about leaving now. Not necessarily based on the recent changes. but what they REPRESENT as to the level of unreasonableness of what can be expected of the immigration laws here, currently now and going forward with future onerous changes. Also, new people, why would you come here? You're not a respected retired expat here. You're a SUSPECT. Maybe you think no big deal but several years down the line when you've made your "home" here, feeling a totally false residence security here that is all an ILLUSION, when your bridge back home may be very difficult, imagine how you'll feel then when the immigration laws bite you in the arse. Which you can pretty much predict, they will. 

 

Or you could buy an Elite Card. Sure, but where is the guarantee that the visa associated with the card will REALLY be honored without new conditions for the full term of years you have purchased? Answer -- there is no guarantee.

You've been posting threads about alternatives to Thailand (Thaiexit) for what is it now? About 10 years?  One thing at least to your credit is you sure are consistent.  I've been here through 4 coups and one war.  A little visa shakeup that only effects the skint set isn't going to bother me much.  But thanks for memories.  Watch out for those doors. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You've been posting threads about alternatives to Thailand for what is it now? About 10 years?  One thing at least to your credit is you sure are consistent.  I've been here through 4 coups and one war.  A little visa shakeup that only effects the skint set isn't going to bother me much.  But thanks for memories.  Watch out for those doors. 

It doesn't only impact the skint. If you actually believe that, you simply haven't been paying attention. 

 

I'll ignore your personal comments as I've explained that interest (and reasons for my hesitations) multiple times already. Hecklers saying just leave already mean nothing to my decision process. I think everyone needs to take care of their own personal interests to the best of their ability, and that may mean leaving, that may mean staying, but I do think everyone should pay attention to the subtext of these recent major changes for Thai immigration's approach to foreigners living here in general (currently impacted or not). 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jingthing

[JackThompson]

34 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Try getting a Visa for a Thai to live in the UK, Australia, or the US, then you'll have something tangible to complain about.

"To live in" = leads directly to Permanent Residence with unlimited work-permission.  Plus, a much higher income-potential than is possible for most Thais in their own country. 

 

There is no comparison.  Of course that process is more difficult than a Thai "no work, no PR even after 20-years plus," annual-extension here.

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Nothings guaranteed in life, not even life itself.

 

I hear your concerns and you raise some good points and questions, but if you can predict the future of what may or may not happen, your wasting your talents.

 

Try getting a Visa for a Thai to live in the UK, Australia, or the US, then you'll have something tangible to complain about.

Thai Immigration rules and policies are a cinch compared to western Countries.

You make a good point.

  While I am more than irritated at the  Us Embassy for stopping something so simple to fix- I am only be concerned up to my next extension . 

I just can't worry about all the things that can happen.  I have had  dealings with Thai Immigration for almost 50 years and  there are times when they get hard and times when they get easy.  There has always been  differences in interpretations by the Offices regarding the law.

 

Immigration Commissioners come and go and so do Governments- and I fully expect that can happen again.

 

It is possible  and probable that Immigration will realize that keeping 800K tied up for almost a year is impractical.  They may even realize that transferring 65K each month doesn't prove income and make changes.   Some of the 4 Embassies that stopped the letters may bring them back in another form.  It is possible  Thai Immigration may stop all letters but I doubt it since that makes their job easier. And on and on.

 

The question I always ask myself is do the advantages in staying in Thailand outweigh the negatives and even with the Immigration issues- there are more advantages if you  can adjust to the Thai way of doing business and living.

 

Eventually the Immigration Department will figure out what they want  and it will become easier to deal with. Through this forum- reports will come in and we will know which offices request what information

 

Some people will like the money in the bank system because they find it easier.  Others like myself- are stubborn- refuse to tie up  the money  and generally do not like Thai banks for my own personal reasons.

 

I am also not crazy about transferring money each month when I can withdraw 65K  per month from my US Bank and prove it- easily but  I have to go with the flow or  go back to the US and get an O-A Visa or someplace and get  an Non O multiple O or buy an Elite Visa.

 

The bottom line is at least most of us have options and the ability to use those options if need be. Some of the options are better than others but at least they are doable.

 

[marcusarelus]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It doesn't only impact the skint. If you actually believe that, you simply haven't been paying attention. 

 

I'll ignore your personal comments as I've explained that interest (and reasons for my hesitations) multiple times already. Hecklers saying just leave already mean nothing to my decision process. I think everyone needs to take care of their own personal interests to the best of their ability, and that may mean leaving, that may mean staying, but I do think everyone should pay attention to the subtext of these recent major changes for Thai immigration's approach to foreigners living here in general (currently impacted or not). 

No need to debate anyone can look.  It's all here in black on white.  I might mention I was told the same thing in 1968 and again in 1975.  And they did kick us out in 1975.  Even after we spent all that money.  So if they do kick me out it wouldn't be the first time. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by marcusarelus

[seajae]

19 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

Isn't there a govt saving bond here which pays out regular prizes?

 

Better than money sitting in a BB savings account...

I am in it but you still have to show it in your bank account, you actually buy tickets in it, it is not any type of bank account etc,  I was actually buying my tickets when my immigration officer came into the bank and we talked about it, she told me to just have 400.000 in my bank account for 2 months prior to my extension so all I have to do is take it out and put it into my account then return it once it is done then repeat ech year

[nahkit]

So today was the final day to get my extension approved (or should have been).

 

I went into the immigration office this afternoon and was told that it wasn't ready and I need to come back next Wednesday.

 

So at midnight tonight, according to the letter of the law, I will be on overstay.

 

The I/O officer told me "no problem" - yes, absolutely, no problem for them, just a major one for me if I was unlucky enough to be asked for my passport any time in the next few days.

 

You really couldn't make this stuff up.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, nahkit said:

So at midnight tonight, according to the letter of the law, I will be on overstay.

No you will not be on an a overstay. The under consideration stamp allows you to stay until your extension is approved. The report back date is just that it does not mean the under consideration period has ended.

[nahkit]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No you will not be on an a overstay. The under consideration stamp allows you to stay until your extension is approved. The report back date is just that it does not mean the under consideration period has ended.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.

[55Jay]

21 hours ago, nahkit said:

So today was the final day to get my extension approved (or should have been).

 

I went into the immigration office this afternoon and was told that it wasn't ready and I need to come back next Wednesday.

 

So at midnight tonight, according to the letter of the law, I will be on overstay.

 

The I/O officer told me "no problem" - yes, absolutely, no problem for them, just a major one for me if I was unlucky enough to be asked for my passport any time in the next few days.

 

You really couldn't make this stuff up.

No further feedback or indication from them about the bank balance issue?

 

I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't, it'll be a shot across the bow if your extension request is rejected because you dipped below 400k during the 30 day U/C period.  Personally, the way you've described it, I don't think you fit the profile they are looking for.  But this latest crack down is their new, shiny toy, and that dynamic always gives me pause.

[ParadiseLost]

On 3/15/2019 at 1:04 PM, whitefarang said:

find a lawyer ...you already have proof you are married so they should not bother you asking for more proof....how much proof more proof can they ask for. They are just probing to see how much they can bother and stress you .It should be stopped directly or they will continue giving you a hard time .

Uh how else do they check the marriage is still current and legal? If you are divorced you are unable to get the KR2. This doc has been a requirement at Samui for many years.

 

I'm not a fan of TI by any means but at least ensure you have a valid beef if you want to get on your high horse and lead a revolt ????

Edited March 16, 2019 by ParadiseLost

[ParadiseLost]

On 3/15/2019 at 3:00 PM, Jingthing said:

It doesn't only impact the skint. If you actually believe that, you simply haven't been paying attention. 

 

I'll ignore your personal comments as I've explained that interest (and reasons for my hesitations) multiple times already. Hecklers saying just leave already mean nothing to my decision process. I think everyone needs to take care of their own personal interests to the best of their ability, and that may mean leaving, that may mean staying, but I do think everyone should pay attention to the subtext of these recent major changes for Thai immigration's approach to foreigners living here in general (currently impacted or not). 

I also like to think there is some underhanded logic behind targeting the largest groups first.

 

Once majority of these unwanted westerners are gone, there will be very few of us to round up and inter.

 

Where did I leave the tin foil - this hat is leaky!

[nahkit]

Just to close the topic off, yesterday afternoon I went back to immigration and received my one-year extension stamp.

Next year, providing the rules haven't changed, I'll make sure that there's more than 400k in my account prior to making my extension application, i.e. enough to be able to withdraw some during the 30 day "under consideration" period without dipping below 400k.

 

On a final note, when I walked in, one of the officers noticed me and asked if I had come to pick up my "visa". I'm sure some of the people on here will be outraged that the officer didn't use the correct terminology and for a fleeting moment I thought of making a stand for Thaivisa posters and what's right and refusing to let them stamp my passport unless they called it an "extension".

 

Lasted for about one nano-second.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:21 PM, marcusarelus said:

Seems more difficult to me.  My Social Security payment stopped for two months a few years ago because of a clerical error now what would I do in that situation?  Get kicked out of the country? 

 

Or problems/hickups with private transfer services like Transferwise...

Or the government agency crediting a pension at the end of one month instead of the beginning of the next.

Or the Thai bank system not recognizing a foreign deposit as really "foreign"

etc etc etc...

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:25 PM, Tanoshi said:

 

He never changed the content of your post, he just emphasised a particular part he was referring to by underscoring.

I don't see that as a breach of rules.

 

 

FWIW, I've been told in the past by the mods that highlighting / bolding etc quoted portions of text (even if not making any other changes or edits) is a violation of TVF rules... Came as a considerable surprise to me, as well... But it is what it is...

 

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

FWIW, I've been told in the past by the mods that highlighting / bolding etc quoted portions of text (even if not making any other changes or edits) is a violation of TVF rules... Came as a considerable surprise to me, as well... But it is what it is...

 

That is correct. You can post SNIPPETS as long as the snippets aren't intentionally created to distort the meaning of the snippet if it was in context, but changing emphasis, fonts, etc. is not allowed. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

You can post SNIPPETS

Use of capitals is considered 'shouting' and not good forum netiquette.

Oh, sorry, forgot, you like to criticise others, but object when your criticised.