Getting a new non-immigrant visa in a nearby country - need to prove funds came from abroad?

[attrayant]

In another discussion, the question of proving your bank balance came from abroad was raised:

 

On 2/24/2018 at 8:50 AM, ubonjoe said:

On 2/24/2018 at 6:48 AM, bud7 said:

Does the deposit have to come from abroad, or can I accumulate it while on my Business Visa here in Thailand?

 

You don't need to show proof it came for abroad to apply for an extension of stay. It is only required if applying  for a non immigrant visa at immigration. But if you have proof that it was legally earned here in the country that would be accepted.

 

If I am already on retirement extensions in Thailand, and travel to a nearby country and (for whatever reason) need to get a new non-immigrant visa to get back into Thailand, would they still require this?  In the above quote, ubonjoe says this is "only required if applying  for a non immigrant visa at immigration."  Does that mean it does NOT apply to me applying for a new non-immigrant visa in Viet nam?

 

I've been here since November 2011 (came during the great flood) and have four back-to-back retirement extensions in my passport, so my 800K has already been here for a long time.  Suppose I went to Viet Nam and forgot to get my re-entry permit as I left Thailand.  Oops, my retirement extension is canceled!  No problem, I just get a new non-immigrant visa at the Thai embassy in Saigon and start all over again. How could I prove to them that all my funds (which I have had for almost the entire 8 years I've been here) originally came from the USA?

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, attrayant said:

travel to a nearby country and (for whatever reason) need to get a new non-immigrant visa to get back into Thailand, would they still require this? 

No - you don't even have to have the funds in Thailand to use them to qualify for a Non-O abroad - can use evidence of the money in an account in your name held anywhere.

 

But, you can use funds in Thailand if desired (would be in your case), and no need to show their origin.

[attrayant]

Thanks.  Then what is the requirement to prove origin of funds?  When does it come into play?  I don't remember having to do that when I got my first retirement extension (I think I did a conversion from a B extension).

 

This is a snapshot from Siam Legal:

 

 

"...a bank letter stating that the money had been deposited to the account from an overseas source for not less than two months."

 

What are they referring to?

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Thanks.  Then what is the requirement to prove origin of funds?  When does it come into play?  I don't remember having to do that when I got my first retirement extension (I think I did a conversion from a B extension).

 

"...a bank letter stating that the money had been deposited to the account from an overseas source for not less than two months."

 

What are they referring to?

They are referring to the case of entering Thailand on a "Tourist" type entry (Tourist Visa or Visa-Exempt), and applying at an immigration office in Thailand for a Non-O stamp (to avoid leaving the country to obtain a Non-O Visa). 

Edited March 15, 2019 by JackThompson

[attrayant]

I see. Thanks again.

 

Incidentally, I just looked at my Kasikorn bank register and it goes back only to 2015.  The first entry is B/F, which I assume is "balance forward" from an older register.  It's that older register where my very first overseas transfer would have been recorded.  I no longer have that older register but hopefully Kasikorn would still have the record and be able to issue a letter confirming the overseas transfer I made back in December 2011, in case immigration ever asked to see it.

[ubonjoe]

This is the only case where you have proof that the funds came abroad.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80

 

 

"5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand*"

[attrayant]

This is the part that confuses me:

 

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA

 

Doesn't "application for visa" describe what I would be doing in Viet nam if I needed a new non-imm-o to get back into Thailand?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by attrayant

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Doesn't "application for visa" describe what I would be doing in Viet nam if I needed a new non-imm-o to get back into Thailand?

No  Did you notice that is on the immigration website.

Embassies and consulates do not ask for it.

Also you might want to check with the embassy or the consulate in Vietnam. I have seen no reports of them issuing a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement.

[attrayant]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Did you notice that is on the immigration website.  Embassies and consulates do not ask for it.

 

 

I did notice that but didn't think it was possible to get a visa while IN Thailand (isn't a visa a document that gives you permission to enter a country?)  SO I thought they were giving information on how to first obtain the non-imm-o while abroad.

 

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Also you might want to check with the embassy or the consulate in Vietnam. I have seen no reports of them issuing a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement.

 

Yikes I hadn't thought of that.  It looks like they do, but only for Vietnamese citizens:

 

 

So if I made the mistake of going to Viet nam, I'd need to come back into Thailand on a 30-day visa-exempt entry and go to immigration for the conversion to retirement.  This puts me back into the situation of having to prove that I wired sufficient money into Thailand back in 2011.  I guess I should get that letter from Kasikorn in case I ever need it.

 

Are you aware of any bordering countries that will issue the non-o for retirement?  I thought there used to be a pinned thread about this but I don't see it.

[attrayant]

I just want to confirm that the information at immigrationbangkok-dot-com is not correct:
 

When applying for a Thai retirement visa within Thailand (Non-Immigrant O-Long Stay Visa):

You must start the application process by applying for a 90-day non-immigrant visa from a Thai embassy or consulate outside of Thailand, after which you can make an application for a retirement visa in Thailand (you cannot apply for a Thai retirement visa while in Thailand on a 30 day entry stamp or Tourist Visa).

 

You must then be in Thailand for at least 60 days (or within the last 30 days of your current visa stamp expiry) before submitting your retirement visa application at an immigration office.

 

The immigration bureau web site posted earlier by ubonjoe clearly contradicts that by saying:
 

1. 1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist and Transit Visa and applies for Visa Status Alteration and applies for non-immigrant visa; or
   1.2 Form TM.87 for the foreigner, who enters into Thailand without visa, but is allowed to stay in Thailand with a permit of stay for a period of 15 day, 30 days, 90 days and applies for non-immigrant visa.

 

I guess they mean "tourist OR transit visa".

[KarlS]

Information found on commercial websites is often WRONG. The website you cite is not a Thai Government/Immigration site.

[attrayant]

Just now, KarlS said:

Information found on commercial websites is often WRONG. The website you cite is not a Thai Government/Immigration site.

 

Yes that was the first thing that made me skeptical.  So much bad information out there.

[ba ba]

i went to the thai consulate 3 weeks ago asking if i could get a muti non o, over 50 i took the same papers that i used to get my muti in savannakhet 2 years ago paper work was ok but would only give single entre i get a letter from the australian gov stating how much a fornight i receive  h c m city

Edited March 15, 2019 by ba ba

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, attrayant said:

I just want to confirm that the information at immigrationbangkok-dot-com is not correct:

It is not correct. That is not a official immigration website.

The site I link to earlier it is the official website.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Are you aware of any bordering countries that will issue the non-o for retirement?  I thought there used to be a pinned thread about this but I don't see it.

Savannakhet Laos and Penang Malaysia with proof of the 800k baht and proof you are retired.

Vientiane if you have a Thai police clearance certificate a medical certificate from a clinic with the 800k baht in the bank proof.

 

[attrayant]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Savannakhet Laos and Penang Malaysia with proof of the 800k baht and proof you are retired.

 

 

Thanks.  What constitutes "proof you are retired"?  My passport has back-to-back retirement extensions since 2015.  Would that be proof enough?

 

From the Google-translated Thai consulate web site in Savannakhet:

 

 

So I'll need to go to the US embassy here in Thailand and get some sort of certificate of retirement?  I never hear of such a thing.  Is that one of those deals where they'll certify whatever I swear to?

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, attrayant said:

So I'll need to go to the US embassy here in Thailand and get some sort of certificate of retirement?  I never hear of such a thing.  Is that one of those deals where they'll certify whatever I swear to?

That have not been asking for it to be from an embassy lately. If you are getting a pension something from the provider may be enough.

You could do an affidavit at the embassy stating your are retired.

[attrayant]

I'm looking at the website for the Thai consulate in Penang and I just want to say that their "inforgraphic" on the various types of visas offered is a site to behold: http://www.thaiembassy.org/penang/contents/files/services-20140508-110623-169095.pdf

 

However the page about who is eligible for an O-A says the same thing that Viet nam's says:

 

 

Do they just not enforce this?

 

On the next page they also says something about needing a criminal background check from the USA.  That's nonsensical.  The whole point of going to Penang is so that I can save a trip back to the states!

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

I'm looking at the website for the Thai consulate in Penang and I just want to say that their "inforgraphic" on the various types of visas offered is a site to behold: http://www.thaiembassy.org/penang/contents/files/services-20140508-110623-169095.pdf

 

However the page about who is eligible for an O-A says the same thing that Viet nam's says:

 

 

Do they just not enforce this?

 

On the next page they also says something about needing a criminal background check from the USA.  That's nonsensical.  The whole point of going to Penang is so that I can save a trip back to the states!

You asked about an O Visa, not an O-A Visa.

Different as chalk and cheese.

 

An O-A is only available in your home Country or a Country you have permanent residency status.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Tanoshi

[attrayant]

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You asked about an O Visa, not an O-A Visa.  Different as chalk and cheese.

 

Chalk sandwiches are no good, so I wouldn't want to mix those up.  But in post #8, ubonjoe said this:

 

"Also you might want to check with the embassy or the consulate in Vietnam. I have seen no reports of them issuing a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement."

 

So it's pretty clear from my posts that I am referring to that which most of us commonly refer to as a "retirement visa".  In post #9 I asked:

 

"Are you aware of any bordering countries that will issue the non-o for retirement?"

 

To which ubonjoe replied in post #15:

 

"Savannakhet Laos and Penang Malaysia with proof of the 800k baht and proof you are retired. Vientiane if you have a Thai police clearance certificate a medical certificate from a clinic with the 800k baht in the bank proof."

 

So to be clear, which type(s) of non-immigrant visa can I get in nearby countries, which can then be either converted or extended into a full one-year retirement status after arriving in Thailand?

 

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Chalk sandwiches are no good, so I wouldn't want to mix those up.  But in post #8, ubonjoe said this:

 

"Also you might want to check with the embassy or the consulate in Vietnam. I have seen no reports of them issuing a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement."

 

So it's pretty clear from my posts that I am referring to that which most of us commonly refer to as a "retirement visa".  In post #9 I asked:

 

"Are you aware of any bordering countries that will issue the non-o for retirement?"

 

To which ubonjoe replied in post #15:

 

"Savannakhet Laos and Penang Malaysia with proof of the 800k baht and proof you are retired. Vientiane if you have a Thai police clearance certificate a medical certificate from a clinic with the 800k baht in the bank proof."

 

So to be clear, which type(s) of non-immigrant visa can I get in nearby countries, which can then be either converted or extended into a full one-year retirement status after arriving in Thailand?

 

You need to be clearer, there is no such thing as a retirement Visa.

 

You can obtain the Non Imm O SE, or the Non Imm O ME Visa, or the Non Imm O-A Visa on the basis of retirement depending on the conditions set by the Embassy.

If you can be clear on which Visa your after, the advise would be much clearer.

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Chalk sandwiches are no good, so I wouldn't want to mix those up.  But in post #8, ubonjoe said this:

 

"Also you might want to check with the embassy or the consulate in Vietnam. I have seen no reports of them issuing a non-o visa for being 50 or over for retirement."

 

So it's pretty clear from my posts that I am referring to that which most of us commonly refer to as a "retirement visa".  In post #9 I asked:

 

"Are you aware of any bordering countries that will issue the non-o for retirement?"

 

You would get a "Non-O" Visa, which grants 90-day permitted-stays upon use. 

NOT "Non-OA" visa, which grants 1-year permitted-stays upon use, but is not available nearby.

 

There is no such thing as a "Retirement Visa" - but many people (including immigration) call many things a "Retirement Visa" - which is the root of much of the confusion.

 

There are two types of Visas and one Extension one can get, In Part, on the basis of being retired.  (Edit: 3 if you include the Single and Multiple variations of one of them)

 

Quote

So to be clear, which type(s) of non-immigrant visa can I get in nearby countries, which can then be either converted or extended into a full one-year retirement status after arriving in Thailand?

 

Converted is a different question than Extended.  You could "convert" from a Tourist type entry at immigration, but that can be a PITA, and involves having to show the origin of any bank-funds used to qualify for it.

 

The Visa I would suggest is a Non-O Visa, which can be obtained by ...

Quote

To which ubonjoe replied in post #15:

 

"Savannakhet Laos and Penang Malaysia with proof of the 800k baht and proof you are retired. Vientiane if you have a Thai police clearance certificate a medical certificate from a clinic with the 800k baht in the bank proof."

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by JackThompson

[attrayant]

I apologize for the confusion, but the phrasing on the Thai consulates websites certainly does not help.  According to Penang:
 

"Type O: This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to accompany spouse or family members working, studying or living in Thailand."

 

And under documents required it says nothing about showing the 800K that we are all accustomed to.  It mentions wife's documents, marriage cert, etc.

 

"Type O-A: This type of visa is issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding one year..."

 

That certainly sounds like retirement.  Under documents required it mentions the 800K that we all associate with a "retirement visa".

 

So if I was unclear, it's because the embassy/consulate sites themselves have done a poor job of describing what the various visas are for.

 

What I have learned from this is that a non-O is not a "marriage visa" and a non-OA is not a "retirement visa", rather both types are "long stay" visas and the type you get depends on where you are when you apply for it.  If I'm in my home country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant O-A.  If I'm in any other country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant-O visa.  Then once I'm in Thailand on either of these two types of visa, I can extend it based on my personal situation (either retirement or marriage).

 

Is that all correct?

[Toca]

I paid the ultimate penalty because I was silly enough to take my cash out of the Kasikorn bank and bought a condo (mortgage free).

When my visa consultant contacted immigration to renew my retirement visa they informed her that holding a mortgage free condo was not enough proof of financial stability and that I need B800,000 cash in the bank !!

Do I now sell my condo ? @%$&*_ 

[attrayant]

57 minutes ago, Toca said:

I paid the ultimate penalty because I was silly enough to take my cash out of the Kasikorn bank and bought a condo (mortgage free).

When my visa consultant contacted immigration to renew my retirement visa they informed her that holding a mortgage free condo was not enough proof of financial stability and that I need B800,000 cash in the bank !!

Do I now sell my condo ? @%$&*_ 

 

I suggest you start a new discussion.  Not many will see your post buried at the bottom of page two of this one.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

What I have learned from this is that a non-O is not a "marriage visa" and a non-OA is not a "retirement visa", rather both types are "long stay" visas and the type you get depends on where you are when you apply for it.  If I'm in my home country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant O-A.  If I'm in any other country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant-O visa.  Then once I'm in Thailand on either of these two types of visa, I can extend it based on my personal situation (either retirement or marriage).

Websites and Immigration themselves often use the term Retirement or Marriage Visas.

Sometimes due to limited English language, sometimes because it saves a heap of explanation between the differences.

Visas are obtained from Thai Embassies or Consulates.

Extensions are obtained from Thai Immigration offices.

To obtain an extension you must hold a Non Imm O type Visa.

 

Non Imm O type visa are essentially issued based on marriage to a Thai or having a Thai child.

However some Thai Embassies will issue a single entry Non Imm O (90 day) Visa on the basis of retirement.

The Thai Embassy London will issued a Non Imm O ME Visa on the basis of retirement if over 65 and receiving the government state pension.

 

The Non Imm O-A is a 'long stay' Visa, but again certain Thai Embassies refer to it as a 'Retirement Visa'

It's obtainable from age 50, but only available in your home Country, or a Country you have permanent residency.

All of the above 3 Visas carry different periods of validity, and different periods of permission to stay.

 

Extensions extend your permission to stay from a Visa entry after expiry.

They are not Visas by definition, but a permit, they do not allow any entries to Thailand.

A separate re-entry permit can be purchased to allow re-entry and keep any remaining permission to stay valid.

 

The validity of a Visa and the validity of permission to stay are also separate issues.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

I suggest you start a new discussion.  Not many will see your post buried at the bottom of page two of this one.

@Toca

I agree with attrayant.

Go to the home page here: https://forum.thaivisa.com/forum/1-thai-visas-residency-and-work-permits/

Click on 'Start New Topic'

You'll get more response.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

What I have learned from this is that a non-O is not a "marriage visa" and a non-OA is not a "retirement visa", rather both types are "long stay" visas and the type you get depends on where you are when you apply for it.  If I'm in my home country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant O-A.  If I'm in any other country and want to retire in Thailand, I'll ask for a non-immigrant-O visa.  Then once I'm in Thailand on either of these two types of visa, I can extend it based on my personal situation (either retirement or marriage).

Only the Non O-A is a long stay visa (giving you a one-year permission to stay on entry into Thailand). It is always issued only to those over the age of 50 and must be applied for in your home country (or country of legal residence).

 

The Non O visa is actually an umbrella term that refers to visas issued for a variety of different purposes (the "O" stands for other). It may be issued as a single entry visa (allowing a single 90-day permission to stay in Thailand) or multiple entry (allowing any number of entries into Thailand within a year of its issue, with each entry allowing a 90-day permission to stay). The Non O for those over the age of 50 used to be issued at most consulates around the world, but only a few still issue them. Where available, the Non O for over 50 is most often only available as a single entry visa.

 

If you are in Thailand on a tourist entry, it is possible to apply for a "conversion" for retirement which effectively allows you to apply for a non immigrant visa without leaving Thailand, which is immediately used giving you a 90-day non immigrant entry. This can subsequently be extended for a year (the same process you used in the past). The process of conversion is often troublesome, depending on where you need to apply for it.

[Jim7777]

7 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

Yes that was the first thing that made me skeptical.  So much bad information out there.

Dude I’ve been taking advice from Ubonjoe for almost 5 years now and he’s right 99.9% of the time.  From my experience if you ask Ubonjoe anything about visas, extensions, or anything immigration related including even some other non-immigration related issues and if he gives you advice you can take it to the bank because it is almost certainly the right answers he’s giving you.  He has never steered me wrong.  

 

The only time I’ve ever got an incorrect answer from him was a few years ago when I asked him if Immigration was open on a particular Thai holiday (not an important holiday) and he said that immigration would be closed but it was actually open.  Other than that one time Ubonjoe has always advised me correctly and I have been asking Ubonjoe questions for almost 5 years now and I’ve asked him A HELL OF A LOT OF QUESTIONS and he has always been right about everything I’ve ever asked him except for one little tiny thing one day.  

 

I’ve probably leaned on Ubonjoe more than anybody on this website for advice because when I first retired here on my marriage visa all I knew were just the basic Thai Visa Laws and not much more than that.  Pretty much everything I’ve learned about immigration matters in the last 5 years I’ve learned from Ubonjoe.  I owe him I feel like I do anyway for all of his free advice that’s literally worth money.  There are visa agencies that charge A LOT OF MONEY for the advice that Ubonjoe gives for free and it’s good advice to, it’s almost always legitimate information that you can take to the bank.....

 

Don’t be giving Ubonjoe a hard time he’s a good guy.  

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jim7777

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, Jim7777 said:

Don’t be giving Ubonjoe a hard time he’s a good guy.  

 

 

I'm grateful for his advice and I thanked him each time I replied.  Which of my posts did you interpret as giving him a hard time?  If anything, I am giving the consulate websites and legal websites a hard time for posting their incorrect information.