After 11 years in Chiang Mai, I was Denied Entry

[chrisc38]

I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years, I first came to Thailand in 2008 on a business visa. I then switched to an education Visa which I did for 7 years. During those years the rules kept changing until the final straw was i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it. So I went to hcmc for a few months got a tourist visa and came back to Thailand, then I just did tourist visa's from there, went to hcmc a few times, then 4 times in Vientiane until i got a red stamp that read (this person travels to Thailand many times on a tourist visa). I never tried to get a tourist visa again.

So since late 2017 i was just flying in and out of the country every few months, I did this because getting a visa was just a hassle asking for permission to leave the country every time reporting all that and since i like to go to hcmc to see my friends there it was just easier to come in and out every two months, obviously not the cheapest route but i'm not exactly hard up financially. It worked for me.

So last week I fly to hcmc for 4 days and returned to Thailand, normally i use the fly thru but i was flying onward to a location in isaan that doesn't have the fly thru option (I didn't realise that till i got to Bangkok).

I fly into Don Muang with my good friend who traveled with me, he's only been in and out a few times and hasn't been living in Thailand as long as I have.

I'm from Australia, in my late 30's now and dressed normal new Adidas trainers decent clothes, If you've been here a long time you'd look at me and know i'm no English teacher nor do i look like I have no money, as if that has anything to do with anything.

So my mate goes first she goes through his passport intently then the lady pulls over her manager and he get's pulled aside, same thing happens to me.

They walked me past the immigration checkpoint to the right where they have a desk and a computer.

A short annoying tomboy officer raises her voice and says "why you in out so many times?"

I speak Thai pretty fluently at this point and reply in a demenour voice "oh it's because..." she cuts me off, you can't come in out all the time!! 

So i try to explain to her but she's just talks over me and walks away seemed pretty frustrated.

Meanwhile my mate is at the desk where the officer is asking him why he comes to Thailand and he's like for tourism. Asks if he has money, yes, he shows him 20,000 baht, does he have a return ticket, yes shows him.

Noone talks to me, noone asks me why, how much money i have, do i have return ticket nothing.

BTW my friend also speaks Thai very well though he just replies in English.

A lady walks out points at me and says "he works in vietnam!"

I contort my face cause i havn't had a job for 15 years, i don't need to work.

The walk away,

another 20 minutes pass guy comes back to his desk another lady comes out and says "send them back".

Another 15minutes pass and yet another lady comes out and we have to go with her, it's me my friend and a loation lady who is caught up in this mess also.

As we walk towards another immigration office further in the terminal I ask the lady, what's going on?

She explains that last year 2018 i spent more than 180 days in the country as a tourist and that's against the law.

I ask her what act i'm actually in violation of as I can't find that in the immigration act.

She says "because you need to look deeper"

Ok, but you are enforcing it you can't tell me what's the number so i can look it up.

Just more silence refuses to answer.

So we get into the room where there are several immigration officers who are copying details of our passports into the books as if i'm being charged at the police station.

One guy asks why i come in and out so much, I just say cause I go to see my friends in hcmc (sometimes i stay there for months).

No, you must have Visa! They exclaim.

I say i can enter the country 30 days without a visa what's the problem?

No, you must have Visa!

I'm done arguing.

An Air Asia representative enters the room to sign the papers also, which made me realize at that point i'm not getting in to Thailand, but also made me start thinking that what they are signing is probably to expunge their responsibility for bringing me their. 

Paperwork is done, they ask me to sign.

I pick up the paper and try to go sit down, he snatches it out of my hand and says "No, you must sign"

I say in Thai "i'm not signing anything until I read it first".

They seem a bit shocked that i can read thai.

It basically was saying that I acknowledge all responsibility and that I agree to be held in the detention center. LMAO

I say in Thai again "I've done absolutely nothing wrong, their is nothing to say that i can't come in an out of the country many times, and if that were the case then it's Air Asia's responsibility for bringing me here knowing full well I'll be denied entry"

The Air Asia representative had a shocked look on his face.

The immigration officer says, OK don't sign sit down you go back to HCMC.

I say in Thai again, i'm not going to HCMC i don't even have a visa to go back there, i'll book a ticket an go wherever i want.

OK he says.

It's at this point I know the whole reason i'm being denied is just utter BS.

The air asia guys says come with me, we go outside the room and says "ok so where you want to go we can send you to phnom penh. I'm like whichever is the eariler flight siem reap or phnom penh.

so he asks for 5000 baht for the tickets lol, righteo whatever dude, here's the money go get the tickets.

So he goes gets the tickets comes back, we go into the immigration room they take some photos of us and hand us back the passport.

At this point i'm just glad to get away from those annoying c#ts.

Air Asia escort us up to to the international departure gates VIP style basically then says "enjoy your flight"

Me and my mate just laugh.

But here's the real kicker.

I open my passport and there's a stamp in there. It says the reason i was denied was "ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ" i think the exact term means no subsistence or no way of supporting oneself, basically no money.

ummmmm but i had money my mate had money, money wasn't the real issue but it seems to me it's the only thing they can deny you entry for.

I wish I had opened my passport in the office i would have thrown my money on his desk, and told him he could keep it as he looks like he needs it more than i do.

Really annoying.

Can i get a visa, yeah i could have, well i'm going to have to now, just super annoying cause now i have to get a new passport before applying for it.

No money, what a joke.

Only reason i'm writing this is that i hope if someone reads this don't sign the damn paper, tell them you don't want to go in you'll buy a ticket out right now, i was lucky i flew with air asia as they have flights all the time and it was their responsibility to get me outta their.

Remember, Don't sign it! If you go to detention you have to pay for that privilege and your airline no longer has to help you out.

I'm also curious to know how many other people are being denied and getting stamped as having no money when you actually do.

[ThaiBunny]

Don Meuang ... Air Asia ... female Immigration officer. A typical experience so it seems

[elviajero]

26 minutes ago, chrisc38 said:

I'm also curious to know how many other people are being denied and getting stamped as having no money when you actually do.

Virtually everyone is denied under section 12 (2) of the immigration act.

 

“2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.”

 

You were not denied for not having money, but for not having an appropriate means (way) of living in the country.

[chrisc38]

Since when is having a pocket full of cash not an appropriate means of living in the country

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, chrisc38 said:

Since when is having a pocket full of cash not an appropriate means of living in the country

Having cash in your pocket is required under section 12 (9), which in your case would be a minimum of 10K.

 

Having an appropriate means of living in the country is considered; a job, min amount of cash in the bank, a minimum foreign income. 

 

[brokenbone]

guessing income not verified by embassy or money transfer to thai bank, but even then your shit out of luck since your not 50+

[ThaiBunny]

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it" - pretty much sums it up.  If you want to go somewhere, stick to their rules

[glegolo]

5 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it" - pretty much sums it up.  If you want to go somewhere, stick to their rules

Agree to 100%.. This guy likes to makes up his own way of approaching things. I suggest he "bends over" and follows the easy route and not be so damn stubborn..

 

glegolo

[riclag]

1 hour ago, chrisc38 said:

I open my passport and there's a stamp in there. It says the reason i was denied was "ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ" i think the exact term means no subsistence or no way of supporting oneself, basically no money.

Mai mee bpat jai yang cheep

No money for support lifestyle or living

 

Thanks for the heads up and sorry for your issues 

Edited March 21, 2019 by riclag

[PingRoundTheWorld]

49 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Having an appropriate means of living in the country is considered; a job, min amount of cash in the bank

They haven't even checked how much money he has on him, let alone in the bank. Plenty of people can afford to live in Thailand for years without a job - isn't that why the the 50+ retirement extension exists? (which isn't available to him due to his age - not financial situation)

 

They just made up a reason to deny him because the actual reason to deny does not exist in the law. "Here too long" and "over 180 days" are completely made up rules which seem to only exist in DMK. I have a METV but still avoiding DMK and choosing more expensive flights into BKK because of all the horror stories I've heard. If this keeps up after the election I'll seriously reconsider spending most of my time out of Thailand, and take my money where it's welcome.

 

Good to know about not signing and asking to be put on the next flight immediately, and good to hear (that in this case) you can have a choice of where to fly to (only if you don't sign?). Hopefully I'll never have to use that knowledge, lol.

[brokenbone]

i think what it boils down to is they think you are making money out of thailand somehow, and you are guilty until proven innocent, by documentation

[JimmyTheMook]

Bottom line is you were living in Thailand under the pretense of being a tourist - 

those days are long over.

 

 

 

[Briggsy]

Perfect candidate for Thai Elite's Privileged Entry visa.

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

They haven't even checked how much money he has on him, let alone in the bank. Plenty of people can afford to live in Thailand for years without a job - isn't that why the the 50+ retirement extension exists? (which isn't available to him due to his age - not financial situation)

He is repeatedly entering as a tourist and hasn’t proven (which isn't possible at the border) an appropriate way of providing a living once in the country,

 

Quote

They just made up a reason to deny him because the actual reason to deny does not exist in the law.

No they haven’t. They have used a law that they can legally use to deny entry.

 

Quote

"Here too long" and "over 180 days" are completely made up rules which seem to only exist in DMK.

No they’re not. Since 2014 IO’s have had discretional power to legally deny entry to anyone using visa exempt entry because they’ve spent too long in the country for tourism. It was announced by the MFA to embassies etc. And since then IO’s have used any qualifying reason under section 12.

 

180 days has been quoted for years and is an unofficial guideline for IO’s to give extra scrutiny to ‘tourists’. It’s why the system has an automatic flag when some has 6 VE entries (6x30=180). 

 

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Good to know about not signing and asking to be put on the next flight immediately, and good to hear (that in this case) you can have a choice of where to fly to (only if you don't sign?). Hopefully I'll never have to use that knowledge, lol.

It wouldn’t matter whether you sign or not. The law gives the power to IO’s at the airport to decide where you can fly to.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

I speak Thai pretty fluently at this point and reply

Always a mistake, never speak to IOs or other government officials in Thai, they don't like it.

Happy and a bit stupid is the way to go.

Edited March 22, 2019 by BritManToo

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years, ......

That's probably why they suspect that you aren't a real tourist.

The other reason that they may have denied you entry is because you post messages on here that are 1417 words long. Anyone who does that should be banned.

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by KittenKong

[PingRoundTheWorld]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No they’re not. Since 2014 IO’s have had discretional power to legally deny entry to anyone using visa exempt entry because they’ve spent too long in the country for tourism. It was announced by the MFA to embassies etc. And since then IO’s have used any qualifying reason under section 12.

Source of the actual MFA announcement? Source or it's just hearsay.

 

The same system that alerts on 6 VE entries does not alert on 3 SETVs or 1 METV, so I doubt it was set in place to prevent tourists from staying longer than 180 days a year. More likely it is there so long term tourists have to get tourist visas and prove they have means to support themselves, which does make sense.

[riclag]

59 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

They haven't even checked how much money he has on him, let alone in the bank. Plenty of people can afford to live in Thailand for years without a job - isn't that why the the 50+ retirement extension exists? (which isn't available to him due to his age - not financial situation)

 

They just made up a reason to deny him because the actual reason to deny does not exist in the law. "Here too long" and "over 180 days" are completely made up rules which seem to only exist in DMK. I have a METV but still avoiding DMK and choosing more expensive flights into BKK because of all the horror stories I've heard. If this keeps up after the election I'll seriously reconsider spending most of my time out of Thailand, and take my money where it's welcome.

 

Good to know about not signing and asking to be put on the next flight immediately, and good to hear (that in this case) you can have a choice of where to fly to (only if you don't sign?). Hopefully I'll never have to use that knowledge, lol.

You have a METV ,good for almost 9 months. You get vetted at your countries embassy -proof of income,bank account and in some cases a Itinerary of your holiday stops(booking.com) while in Thailand. You should carry this proof with you when you enter .Also it wouldn't hurt to have a  throw away ticket out

Edited March 22, 2019 by riclag

[thinkingman]

If there were hard and fast rules (>180 days; more than 3 tourist visas in a 2 year period; etc.), then there would be no opportunity for baksheesh, tea money, bribes or agents.

 

Discretionary authority is what feeds the corruption.

[jacko45k]

47 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It wouldn’t matter whether you sign or not. The law gives the power to IO’s at the airport to decide where you can fly to.

That doesn't sound likely the way the OP described things. It sounded like a confession of guilt and permission to lock me up at my own agreement and expense. In this case the guy was given ample explanation of what was going on and fortunately could speak and read the language. Signing confessions is a ploy often used in 3rd world.

[ubonjoe]

Inflammatory posts meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them have been removed.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

"at the discretion of the immigration officer" 

oh well, this does say it all

 

But, thanks to the OP for providing the account 

[beautifulthailand99]

Sorry to hear about your experience. You sound like a digital nomad so you have been earning money abroad and spending it in Thailand. If Thailand had an ounce of sense it would make efforts to legitimize your types as a net asset to the country. Oh and you speak Thai and aren't some beer-sodden, sexpat cheap charlie - what's not to like? (massive assumptions on my part). 

 

Good luck with whatever you do elsewhere.

[fforest1]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

"i had to renew the visa every three months or something ridiculous so i just stopped doing it" - pretty much sums it up.  If you want to go somewhere, stick to their rules

Stick to their rules....lol.......You must be joking.....They cant seem to stick to their own rules around here....

 

I guess you have not kept up with the ED visa.....The rules have been changed over and over and over.....  

 

[Tayaout]

Almost exact same story for me except I was only in thailand for about 5 months. I know exactly who is the "tomboy" officer you are talking about. I had a tourist visa so when they say you need a visa it doesn't means tourist visa for sure.

[mstevens]

Good on you for refusing to sign the document and making a stand on that. That business of making people pay to stay in the cells at the airport always struck me as rotten.

[Misty]

40 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Sorry to hear about your experience. You sound like a digital nomad so you have been earning money abroad and spending it in Thailand. If Thailand had an ounce of sense it would make efforts to legitimize your types as a net asset to the country. Oh and you speak Thai and aren't some beer-sodden, sexpat cheap charlie - what's not to like? (massive assumptions on my part). 

 

Good luck with whatever you do elsewhere.

OP says he's been living in Thailand for 11 years, so if he was earning money, he would be earning it here in Thailand - not abroad.  Or did I miss something.

[mngmn]

Find it interesting (but not surprising) that TV members attack the OP but say nothing about the appalling behaviour of the IOs.  Thai IOs should be made to watch the Australian Border Security show for some pointers on how to interact with passengers politely (even when the passenger is breaking the law).

 

Increasingly worried about my two VE entries I need to do following three years in Thailand on Non-O visas.  My passport is full of entry/exit stamps but I need to enter two more times to pack up my condo and ferry stuff back home for good.  I don't feel confident that the IOs will accept this as a valid reason as they seem to simply enjoy being vindictive. 

[smedly]

4 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

I have lived in Chiang Mai Thailand for 11 years

doing what ? - income from what ? ecommerce ? ebay ? if so then you work in Thailand

4 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

'm from Australia, in my late 30's

so you started living here late 20's, very young

4 hours ago, chrisc38 said:

i'm not exactly hard up financially

evidently not enough for an elite visa which would have been your best option to avoid drawing attention to yourself - get one now if you have the money then your problems go away

 

once you hit 50 then other options become available 

[nightfox]

Another OP who thinks because he can read and wright Thai is above the law thinking he can live in Thailand with a tourist visa and visa exempt..When will people learn