Public hospitals get training to recover payments from foreigners

[emptypockets]

56 minutes ago, fruitman said:

That's a very bad plan, why would i have to pay for insurance when i apply for a visa? I already have healthcare and worldwide travelinsurance!

Its not just about you. Look at the big picture.

[malagateddy]

Sadly..a lot of tourists for their own reasons DO NOT see fit to buy comprehensive travel insurance before leaving their home country!!@

Why should the innocent be punished?  

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[zyphodb]

They already have a perfectly good money recovering plan from farang, steal your passport until you pay.....

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, malagateddy said:

Sadly..a lot of tourists for their own reasons DO NOT see fit to buy comprehensive travel insurance before leaving their home country!!@

 

That's based on the well-known attitude "It won't happen to me". Speeding? Won't get caught. Cheating? Won't get caught. Motorcycle accident? Who, me - but I'm so careful!

[DLock]

The issue is foreigners not paying hospital bills.

 

Trying to smokescreen the issue with "dual pricing", "visa increases", "insurance" is dumb.

 

Just pay your hospital bills...thats the big picture.

 

Don't punish me because of all the broke ass, delinquent losers.

[Caldera]

4 hours ago, jonclark said:

b) how will this requirement be enforced when entering Thailand? Are they going to deny plane loads of probably Chinese tourist entry as they are the largest and most frequent visitors to Thailand if they have no insurance.

They could install vending machines at the airports for those who screwed up. Or add the insurance premium to the VOA / tourist visa fee.

[Sheryl]

I think most of these unpaid bills are not caused by farangs
Farangs like to go to private hospitals where people can speak english
I assume many of these unpaid bills are illegal foreign workers, from Cambodia or Myanmar, who maybe had an accident because of unsafe working conditions. They don't have money to pay the bills, their Thai employer does of course not want to pay for it, so they went back home and left the bill unpaid.

There is an insurance scheme for these workers already. About 2000 baht a year gets them same cover as Thais under 30 baht scheme.

Tourists and resident expats unable/unwilling to pay their bills has been a problem for yrars in both private and public hospitals but the private ones are skilled in strong arm tactics to get paid. They also have the recourse of transferring patients who can't pay or have exhausted their funds but still need further treatment to government hospitals, and frequently do so.

The govt hospitals however have no place they can transfer such patients too and lack staff and skills in bill collection. So they are the worst affected. The private hodpitals usually manage to get their money and in addition can pass on the cost of anything they are forced to write off onto other patients through their fee structure. Every time you pay a private hospital part of what you are paying covers bad debts of other patients.

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[Sheryl]

They could install vending machines at the airports for those who screwed up. Or add the insurance premium to the VOA / tourist visa fee.

Problem is all the visa exempt entries. Probably more practical to add it to airfares like they do with airport tax and then have a procedure for claiming refund upon proof of insurance similar to VAT refund process. Will be a hassle for those who need to claim it though especially those of us who travel in and out frequently.

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[kamalabob2]

I know of expats who have died in a public hospital and the Thai spouse refused to sell land, gold jewelry or a truck to pay off the public hospital debt. The expats had not taken the time to buy medical insurance, and did not plan for serious medical treatments. If they had life insurance, it was not allocated to pay off a hospital debt. I know of other expats who have delayed payment on a home building contract and departed Thailand on very short notice if they became aware of spousal infidelity. Why finish the home for the now "ex girlfriend" and her Thai boyfriend. I am fortunate enough to budget for Aetna Health Insurance for in patient coverage. 

[JustAnotherHun]

Applying for a TV to Schengen one has to show a travel health insurance covering 30k Euros.

Why should Thailand act differently and pay the costs for foreigners that want save a handful THB?

There a too many of these "it will not happen to me"-tourists and even long term residents.

 

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, KarlS said:

 A relatively small increase in the price of a tourist visa would cover any healthcare costs.

And that would be gamed by every seriously ill falang cheat going. Thoroughly naive.

Edited March 28, 2019 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Sadly..a lot of tourists for their own reasons DO NOT see fit to buy comprehensive travel insurance before leaving their home country!!@

 

Those not buying insurance are but a subset of those not paying their bills. There are many more with insurance who are still not covered for their pre-existing ailments.

Edited March 28, 2019 by SheungWan

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, jonclark said:

" The short-term phase was to make health insurance for specific ailments with a low premium rate and to impose a requirement for a foreigner to have an insurance policy before entering Thailand."

 

So the next question is a) what are those specific ailments that attract a low premium rate? b) how will this requirement be enforced when entering Thailand? Are they going to deny plane loads of probably Chinese tourist entry as they are the largest and most frequent visitors to Thailand if they have no insurance. 

 

 

Elephantitis

Third step syphilis

Alcoholism

Same as for themedical checks for Visa I guess

 

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Applying for a TV to Schengen one has to show a travel health insurance covering 30k Euros. Why should Thailand act differently and pay the costs for foreigners that want save a handful THB?

Because it's mostly citizens of Third World countries that need a Schengen visa

[jackdd]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They also have the recourse of transferring patients who can't pay or have exhausted their funds but still need further treatment to government hospitals, and frequently do so.

Yes, this is an aspect that i didn't consider yet

 

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The govt hospitals however have no place they can transfer such patients too and lack staff and skills in bill collection. So they are the worst affected. The private hodpitals usually manage to get their money and in addition can pass on the cost of anything they are forced to write off onto other patients through their fee structure. Every time you pay a private hospital part of what you are paying covers bad debts of other patients.

All money which a public hospital gets also indirectly pays for people who don't pay. The main problem of government hospitals is that they are run totally ineffective because if they make losses it's not a big deal, they get more money from the government so they can keep operating, nobody has to worry about losing their job. While in a private hospital making losses (for example by not chasing unpaid bills) means lost jobs, maybe even on the management level, and in the worst case the hospital would have to close.

[Vacuum]

3 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Non payment is not possible in Thailand on any thing big...Its always money up front......

I never heard of even one expat not paying... 

Have you not read all the GoFundMe topics?

[RJRS1301]

Personally I have no problem with them making it a condition of entry that one holds travel insurance for tourists

For those on longer term visas and applying for extensions insurance could be part of that, but the costs for older persons makes it really hard after 70, especially if they have any pre-existing conditions.

The government would need to work with the insurance companies to make the policies affordable.

 

[salavan]

5 hours ago, KarlS said:

Are you trying to say that in your opinion it is OK for expats to not pay their medical bills? 

This is propergander to impose health insurance look deeper and you will see 

[ThaiBunny]

The simplest method (assuming action is required) would be to levy all non-Thais entering the Kingdom, to be deposited into a single fund which is then used to pay the hospital. Otherwise you're going to get insurance companies involved, and their first line of defence will always be "pre-existing condition" or some other excuse and deny any liability to pay, which then puts it back on the individual

[ginjag]

I would love to know who these people are that do not pay,   how old they are,   what nationality.

Younger people are more than likely to be a burden --80% who die on the roads M/cyclists, drug and drink accidents, swimming, fighting, falling off balconies and the rest.

Big problem for over 65s  no cover for pre existing conditions,  very high premiums if granted here is the big problem, I would doubt the older person is the problem in most cases. So for gods sake be easier on the older ex pat.   Have an insurance realistic to the situation.

[zydeco]

Is that Billy Kwan from The Year of Living Dangerously?

[JustAnotherHun]

11 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Because it's mostly citizens of Third World countries that need a Schengen visa

The rule is for everyone, not only third world citizens.

Why should Thailand accept to pay the bills for tourists? Because they might be from the "first world"?

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherHun said:

The rule is for everyone, not only third world citizens.

Why should Thailand accept to pay the bills for tourists? Because they might be from the "first world"?

It's for everyone who needs a Schengen visa.  If you read the countries whose passport holders must have one, it's mostly Third World countries.  Americans, Australian and others are visa exempt

[champers]

2 hours ago, Darkside Gray said:

Do you know what a Farang is?

Yes, I do. Most tourists are from China, India and SE Asia. They are not referred to as farang.

[Longcut]

It's OK. The way things are going. They won't have any to go after.

[JustAnotherHun]

So you think beeing a first world citizen gives you the right to be a cheap charlie without a travel health insurance expecting Thailand will pay your hospital bill?

[NCC1701A]

[ThaiBunny]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

So you think beeing a first world citizen gives you the right to be a cheap charlie without a travel health insurance expecting Thailand will pay your hospital bill?

You gave as a reason for introducing health insurance for all visa holders in Thailand that those who apply for a Schengen Visa must have mandatory health insurance.  I was merely pointing out that most people who visit the Schengen area don't need a visa and therefore don't have mandatory health insurance.  That's a separate issue to what I believe Thailand should or should not do

[Sheryl]

All money which a public hospital gets also indirectly pays for people who don't pay. The main problem of government hospitals is that they are run totally ineffective because if they make losses it's not a big deal, they get more money from the government so they can keep operating, nobody has to worry about losing their job. While in a private hospital making losses (for example by not chasing unpaid bills) means lost jobs, maybe even on the management level, and in the worst case the hospital would have to close.

Public hospitals receive a flat amount per Thai citizen registered there under SS or 30 baht system. This amount is insufficient, sometimes severely so and virtually all government hospitals operate in the red.

Hospitals receive no budget allication for provision of care to foreigners. Only the fee they collect and that is based on a fee structure which is inadequate to fully recoup costs even if everyone paid in full.

Since in most cases very, very few patients are fee paying most hospitals have not invested much time and effort in costing out services and revamping their fee structures accordingly. They also lack staff with the time and qualifications to do so.

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[DrTuner]

One holds them in lock and the other one takes a lighter to the family jewels?

Edited March 28, 2019 by DrTuner