Big Joke: Promises easier, faster and more "watertight" Immigration rules

[fforest1]

This was refreshing the last 2 pages were full of insightful intelligent posts.....I guess the rules are rules and if you dont like it go home posters were given the night off last night..... 

[cerox]

You all make good points.

I do it like you, do not buy anything huge here and make my life flexible.

Over a year ago I was thinking about buying a condo, Elite card etc. Luckily I did not do it because it would be my own prison now. Also my belongings here stay small. I am not an alarmist or pessimist, on the contrary I like life here but the last thing I want is huge commitments if I have to leave.

[crees]

Lets just do like they do in America, walk in and demand free healthcare, education, food, etc. its working there and it can work here. For details on putting it together, contact Nancy or Chuckles the Clown

[zydeco]

28 minutes ago, cerox said:

You all make good points.

I do it like you, do not buy anything huge here and make my life flexible.

Over a year ago I was thinking about buying a condo, Elite card etc. Luckily I did not do it because it would be my own prison now. Also my belongings here stay small. I am not an alarmist or pessimist, on the contrary I like life here but the last thing I want is huge commitments if I have to leave.

Back in the fall, when the income letter change first hit the news, I decided then and there to cut back everything to the minimum. No new nuthin'. No appliance replacements--just fix to keep operating. No optional spending in stores. I spend not a penny on anything that cannot be easily evacuated along with my person. I used to spend anywhere from 70K to 150K baht per month (I know, this is still chickenfeed to the high rollers in their 60 million baht teak houses, with the fleet of Mercedes under the car port), but I now spend just around 20K per month and sometimes even get that down lower. I started cutting back because of the unsureness surrounding the letter cancellation. But with all the other things, unsureness has been replaced by "pretty likely." 

[Thaiarrow]

It has been stated many times that the only official and reliable source of information is the Ministry of Immigration. No one, unless specifically identified, represents the government. This is evident on all media releases. It is also stated that anyone with questions is invited to visit the immigration office and discuss the file. Each file is unique and can only be commented upon after close review. 

Do not expect a reliable  statement  using unreliable information about a visa holder.  The comments made have been done with the intent to assist only.

 

The Nation Media forum has provided many statements and claims that are from the imaginations of people from the internet, many who are not aware that no amended regulations have been posted and that the matter is still under review.

The result has been that many people have been caused pain and hurt being told that they will be thrown away, when no such position has been declared. It is recommended that you wait for the amendments because now people are making false claims and negative statements intended to cause hurt.

 

As a final comment, attention is drawn to the sad fact that some visa holders never qualified for entry into Thailand, and were able to enter by using duplicate passport or concealing informations such as criminal history or undesirable status in their home country. The Nation Media forum has provided multiple cases of visitors boasting of how they passed by the rules using new passports or making a run for the border etc. After only a mild reading of the many entries, it seems many people consider breaking the existing immigration rules a sport. It is not a sport and is a process requiring some basic respect.

 

No more contribution to this thread. Help is available, but it is up to you to go and ask and to be organized and have the documents required to allow a proper review of your file.

[Thaidream]

18 hours ago, Thaiarrow said:

After close examination of all comments made on the subject, it is obvious, that a very small number of people make the negative comments. Over 35 million people visit Thailand every year under the different visas, and from reading Nation Media forum here, it seems 20 people have a problem because they do not have income or financial solvency. Maybe there are 100 or maybe 1000 who have same position. This is  less than 0.0029% of visa holders. Now, should you not ask yourself, why do such a small number of people expect the regulations to be made for their convenience? 

 

Few countries have been as generous and kind to foreigners who are social benefit recipients. Thailand has paid the medical costs of many foreigners who have not been able to pay or who have benefited from public health care. However, it is time that the regulations be updated to reflect the year 2562.  Again, readers are reminded that the pending changes have received support from the foreign business community with no objections raised during consultations. Investors and business professionals will continue to be welcomed. Tourists with appropriate visa qualifications will continue to be welcomed. Yes, a small, very small, number of people may not be able to remain in Thailand. It is best for everyone that these people go to their homelands where they can be looked after by their families and government. 

 

It is also noted the very positive comments made about foreign visa rules in other countries. This is delightful if it is a solution for the people who are most unhappy. Not everyone can be made happy when  regulations must be made to protect the largest number of people. Thailand regulations are enacted to reflect Thailand needs and economic conditions. Other countries do the same.

I have been coming to Thailand for 50 years and married to a Thai for 40 years.  I have always had the proper Visa and  have respected Thai customs and sensibilities and learned to speak Thai.

No one is saying Thailand cannot set their own requirements for entry but you are confusing  different categories of people who come to Thailand/

 

As I have said before- this forum represents  those who are retired and those who are married or both.  Both of these categories that number in  tens of thousands have been affected by the current changes already published.  The majority of these groups can meet the requirements of finances but  it is the bureaucratic requirements that are causing stress- not the amounts of money. 

However- I would recommend the Thai Government not raise the financial requirements which are already high and in line with other countries.  One has to remember that retirees pensions are based on  a work history of 40-50 years and salary levels that started low and increase yearly.

As far as married people-  400K is the right level especially when one considers the level required in the United States for  a US=Thai marriage is $21,000 and the United Kingdom about the same. With all do respect- Thailand's economy and average income level is not  as high as the US and UK and 400K is more than adequate.  It should also be noted that when a Thai enters the US or UK on a marriage Visa- they are accorded full rights to all social and medical programs available- however  I have never been accorded these rights in Thailand.

 

As far as local Embassies  being in accord with  issues regarding investment etc- that is  their point of interest- They would have little interest in other types of Visas except for reciprocity.

 

Thailand gets many tourists- you quote 35 million- most who leave after 30 days and return to their country to continue working or running business.  As I said, the majority of people on this forum are NOT in that category and are NOT here on business or invest Visas.

 

If the Thai Government raises  financial requirements to a level that  many or the majority cannot meet you will have a chaotic situation in which aged pensioners will have no place to go or married people will be torn from their families. Be aware there are people here who have retired and married for many years who no longer have family or domiciles in their birth country. 

These are not a few hundred as you claim but tens of thousands. If the Thai Government raises the requirements for future retirees or married people- it is essential those already in Thailand be  'Grandfathered' under the old requirements. 

 

A new law or change in a law should not be applied retroactively and to do is a violation of rights under the United Nations doctrine.

 

As I have said before- a country has the right to protect itself from criminal aliens; scammers or other who would flout the laws- but a country needs to look realistically who will be affected by a change; how they will be affected and  provide an accurate assessment of numbers affected.  

 

If you are a member of the Thai Government- I would suggest you might want to take a realistic look at what is being proposed and the real numbers of people who will be affected. Your post gives  numbers that are completely incorrect.  You have mixed up tourists versus Business Travelers versus retirees and married. Each group is separate; each groups has its own requirements .  I would suggest with all due respect= that you need much more study on these groups before any decision is made.  

[mokwit]

6 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

No more contribution to this thread.

Coz we sussed he was not a Thai official.

[stanleycoin]

8 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

 

No more contribution to this thread. Help is available, but it is up to you to go and ask and to be organized and have the documents required to allow a proper review of your file.

Good,   bye. 

[brokenbone]

27 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

 

No more contribution to this thread. Help is available, but it is up to you to go and ask and to be organized and have the documents required to allow a proper review of your file.

thanks for the offer, but no need to go all the way

and offer pension, i'll be content with citizenship

and pick up on the 500 baht offer for my vote as needed.

even just permanent residency could work

for my peace of mind

Edited March 30, 2019 by brokenbone

[justin case]

4 hours ago, NightSky said:

 

 

You don't seem to understand that there is no security in Thailand for families to be able to stay together and build a secure family home. Everything is temporary.

 

Some husbands fear they cannot stay to live with their wife and children because if one year business isnt good or the company makes you redundant or god forbid a health problem takes all your savings because you find out your health insurance wont pay, you'll then be forced to leave your wife and kids behind even if you've just been through hell and back due to a health condition and even if you've spend the last several decades building your life and assets in Thailand to support your family.

 

This isn't security.

 

Investments can go bad, work can make redundancies, business take a down turn and accidents happen and health mishaps happen since this is life. 

 

After so many years contributing one should be given freedom to live in the country with wife and children without needing to continuously prove ones financial worth. Don't tell me about PR because this is only available to a handful every year and the application process sounds ridiculous.

 

Imagine those expats here for 2 or 3 decades some with grandchildren and still dont have permission to stay unless they prove their finical worth each and every year. I remember one guy recently worrying how hes going to live in Thailand after his wife separated with him at the age of 70+ years after living in Thailand for decades with kids and grand kids. Poor state of health and no where else to go but not allowed to remain without x amount of money!!

 

If you think you're safe because you got money in the bank that may apply for a while but things can go wrong and it isn't secure for families in the long term. Those who argue it is are delusional.

 

Its only secure for tourists who spend money for a few weeks of the year then go home or those who have so much money that there is no possible way to lose it all in one lifetime (multi multi millionaires)

 

 

totally correct

 

and still our governments in home countries do nothing to push these ridiculous rules to Thais living in our home countries, as this would be RACISM !

 

a basic right to stay with your family, when you are married, kids, work, ...

 

2019, not in thailand

 

but as some people said:  thai government does not care, they don't care for their own citizen

 

fill their own pockets for a few years and flee the country if it gets too hot

 

think for a second :

(.......) had an extra foreign obtained nationality for being born in a foreign country but did not think to do same for other foreign nationalities that want to live here with their family in this country 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

23 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

It has been stated many times that the only official and reliable source of information is the Ministry of Immigration. No one, unless specifically identified, represents the government. This is evident on all media releases. It is also stated that anyone with questions is invited to visit the immigration office and discuss the file. Each file is unique and can only be commented upon after close review. 

Do not expect a reliable  statement  using unreliable information about a visa holder.  The comments made have been done with the intent to assist only.

 

The Nation Media forum has provided many statements and claims that are from the imaginations of people from the internet, many who are not aware that no amended regulations have been posted and that the matter is still under review.

The result has been that many people have been caused pain and hurt being told that they will be thrown away, when no such position has been declared. It is recommended that you wait for the amendments because now people are making false claims and negative statements intended to cause hurt.

 

As a final comment, attention is drawn to the sad fact that some visa holders never qualified for entry into Thailand, and were able to enter by using duplicate passport or concealing informations such as criminal history or undesirable status in their home country. The Nation Media forum has provided multiple cases of visitors boasting of how they passed by the rules using new passports or making a run for the border etc. After only a mild reading of the many entries, it seems many people consider breaking the existing immigration rules a sport. It is not a sport and is a process requiring some basic respect.

 

No more contribution to this thread. Help is available, but it is up to you to go and ask and to be organized and have the documents required to allow a proper review of your file.

I would never consider the Thai Ministry of Immigration to be an "official and reliable source"on any subject whatsoever.Hmmm..when I ponder this a tad further-I would never consider any Thai Ministry to be a "reliable source"-just the local office boss and how much he wants from me..

 

Yes the last few pages have been far more realistic.I began to shut it down in late 2016 and was upbraided by fellow foreigners for doing so.However my Thai wife never did so..she spent the time strapping on her harness...and waiting for the green light.

 

"Stand up!"

"Hook on"

"Equipment check!"

"Stand in the door!"

 

I had read"What Colour is your Parachute" and decided on a flaming Southern Cross.

[roobaa01]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:28 AM, GeorgeCross said:

original source from the OP: https://news.ch7.com/detail/333691

i had the whole thai text translated by thaimembers on fb bangkok expats..there was no reference as to money in the bank to be 800k for 6 mths for marriage extension

 

wbr

roobaa01

[mokwit]

18 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

I would never consider the Thai Ministry of Immigration to be an "official and reliable source"on any subject whatsoever.Hmmm..when I ponder this a tad further-I would never consider any Thai Ministry to be a "reliable source"-just the local office boss and how much he wants from me..

 

Yes the last few pages have been far more realistic.I began to shut it down in late 2016 and was upbraided by fellow foreigners for doing so.However my Thai wife never did so..she spent the time strapping on her harness...and waiting for the green light.

 

"Stand up!"

"Hook on"

"Equipment check!"

"Stand in the door!"

 

I had read"What Colour is your Parachute" and decided on a flaming Southern Cross.

There is no 'Ministry of Immigration' in Thailand.

[mokwit]

20 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

52 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

It has been stated many times that the only official and reliable source of information is the Ministry of Immigration.

Dude is a complete fraud. No such thing as 'Ministry of Immigration' exists in the Thai Government.

[totally thaied up]

41 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thai Government raises  financial requirements to a level that  many or the majority cannot meet you will have a chaotic situation in which aged pensioners will have no place to go or married people will be torn from their families

You would be looking at a large amount of people in this regard. Families would be torn apart. I do not want to put more skin in the Thai markets now with a Nationalist Government in power. I would most likely if it was still available, go to Lao and get a Yearly Visa based on no financials and do 90 day border bounces. 99% of us married guys are not criminals, we want to be left alone in peace and would take PR if given to us. We just want as I said to be left alone.

 

 

[KiChakayan]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

 

Most of the Thai ladies us farang end up with are NOT considered attractive by Thai guy standards. Of course, it doesn't matter. We like certain looks, they like others. To each his own. 

 

I do agree that there is deep jealously, though, by Thai men and women. I think alot of it comes from a resentment that farang can ignore the Thai Social Olympics that their entire culture is based on. 

 

Farang don't have to worry about who is "bigger" or more important than who or who to wai first and how high to wai or spend exorbitant time building a network of Thais to rely on. 

 

Thais' entire existence is plagued by their narrow, ancient cultural and social requirements. Us Farang rock up and can normally comfortably ignore 99% of the nonsense which Thais deeply resent. 

 

Imagine you come from a tiny ancient kingdom where you are a really important person because your family 17 generations ago were the best pig farmers in your village. Then you are instantly transported to the present day where everyone simply ignores your status. It would severely deflate and damage your ego. This is what almost all Thais experience when interacting with the non-Thai world. 

 

I'd love to read more of that, you make bloody sense.. and I can fully buy into the "Land of pig farmers" paradigm.

Edited March 30, 2019 by KiChakayan

[Odysseus123]

14 minutes ago, mokwit said:

There is no 'Ministry of Immigration' in Thailand.

My point exactly-see the post I was responding to!

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

My point exactly-see the post I was responding to!

I'd kind of given up reading his posts.

[KiChakayan]

21 hours ago, Thaiarrow said:

Not everyone can be made happy when  regulations must be made to protect the largest number of people. Thailand regulations are enacted to reflect Thailand needs and economic conditions. Other countries do the same.

This kind of "delightful" BS gives me a big smile. What I read here is that "to protect the largest number of people" it is in the Thai government interest to remove foreigners that may infect them with western democratic values.

In the meantime I'll keep pointing out to my "delightful" Thai wife how medieval Thailand is.

[CMNightRider]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I have been coming to Thailand for 50 years and married to a Thai for 40 years.  I have always had the proper Visa and  have respected Thai customs and sensibilities and learned to speak Thai.

No one is saying Thailand cannot set their own requirements for entry but you are confusing  different categories of people who come to Thailand/

 

As I have said before- this forum represents  those who are retired and those who are married or both.  Both of these categories that number in  tens of thousands have been affected by the current changes already published.  The majority of these groups can meet the requirements of finances but  it is the bureaucratic requirements that are causing stress- not the amounts of money. 

However- I would recommend the Thai Government not raise the financial requirements which are already high and in line with other countries.  One has to remember that retirees pensions are based on  a work history of 40-50 years and salary levels that started low and increase yearly.

As far as married people-  400K is the right level especially when one considers the level required in the United States for  a US=Thai marriage is $21,000 and the United Kingdom about the same. With all do respect- Thailand's economy and average income level is not  as high as the US and UK and 400K is more than adequate.  It should also be noted that when a Thai enters the US or UK on a marriage Visa- they are accorded full rights to all social and medical programs available- however  I have never been accorded these rights in Thailand.

 

As far as local Embassies  being in accord with  issues regarding investment etc- that is  their point of interest- They would have little interest in other types of Visas except for reciprocity.

 

Thailand gets many tourists- you quote 35 million- most who leave after 30 days and return to their country to continue working or running business.  As I said, the majority of people on this forum are NOT in that category and are NOT here on business or invest Visas.

 

If the Thai Government raises  financial requirements to a level that  many or the majority cannot meet you will have a chaotic situation in which aged pensioners will have no place to go or married people will be torn from their families. Be aware there are people here who have retired and married for many years who no longer have family or domiciles in their birth country. 

These are not a few hundred as you claim but tens of thousands. If the Thai Government raises the requirements for future retirees or married people- it is essential those already in Thailand be  'Grandfathered' under the old requirements. 

 

A new law or change in a law should not be applied retroactively and to do is a violation of rights under the United Nations doctrine.

 

As I have said before- a country has the right to protect itself from criminal aliens; scammers or other who would flout the laws- but a country needs to look realistically who will be affected by a change; how they will be affected and  provide an accurate assessment of numbers affected.  

 

If you are a member of the Thai Government- I would suggest you might want to take a realistic look at what is being proposed and the real numbers of people who will be affected. Your post gives  numbers that are completely incorrect.  You have mixed up tourists versus Business Travelers versus retirees and married. Each group is separate; each groups has its own requirements .  I would suggest with all due respect= that you need much more study on these groups before any decision is made.  

"400K is the right level especially when one considers the level required in the United States for a US=Thai marriage is $21,000 and the United Kingdom about the same."  What???  The American government does not require an American Citizen who is married to a Thai to have $21,000 in a US bank.  

 

Once your spouse receives their "green card" (ability to work in the US) there is no financial requirement, 90 day reporting, TM forms from everything for taking a trip to a change of address, or any other nonsensical requirement.  The Americans treat Thai spouses far better than the Thai's treat American spouses.

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, Thaiarrow said:

It has been stated many times that the only official and reliable source of information is the Ministry of Immigration. No one, unless specifically identified, represents the government.

Thanks for confirming you're not associated with the government.

 

Has immigration website been updated since 2004, or does it still have the tell-tale in it's URL? It was stagnant for years, stopped bothering with it. They are always the very last to have any usable information, if ever.

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

There is no 'Ministry of Immigration' in Thailand.

There might be a Ministry of Truth though.

[trainman34014]

35 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

There might be a Ministry of Truth though.

Pah....Ministry of Lies would be more apt !

[malagateddy]

Troops..surely it's best to wait and see rather thsn getting your nick--s in a twist??

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[freedomnow]

This thread has morphed into a monster like no other !

[ThaiBunny]

6 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

This thread has morphed into a monster like no other !

It's actually not as great a monster as Jingthing's thread about heading off to South America which, it now turns out, is a nothing more than a bit of contingency planning

[stanleycoin]

56 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

There might be a Ministry of Truth though.

No way. 

 

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

No way. 

 

Dunno, the "Ignorance is strength" sounds like a local mantra.

 

[humbug]

13 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

This is weird.  You didn't use your catch phrase this time.  Usually you tell all other members to comply with the rules without any questions or discussion or leave.  Love the username, sorry it went to your head.  Just imagine what you could have done with that money if you were just a "good guy" and didn't need to buy an "elite visa".  You could feed poor rural village for a day easily.  But people have priorities, you got the elite visa.  Understood.  Nothing wrong doing that.  Stepping into the forum telling people to get out though, is a whole new ball game.  If you sat next to me at a bar or struck up a conversation with me at a food stall, I guarantee if I said visa changes were a problem you wouldn't dare tell me to comply or get out.  And if some old man told  you he was stressed because he has there grandchildren with birthdays this month and he promised to help his youngest son buy a new home, I don't think you would tell him to f*** off and get out.  Would you?  (I read your previous posts.  Telling people to comply is not help or guidance.  Get off the stage you Prima Donna!)

 

he doesnt have an elite card, hes admitted to that, its just twisted that he uses the visa in his username to become some authority on elite or other visas,when in reality he is talking nonsense most of the time. But yeah it makes other card holders look like junta loving self serving lovers of thai illegal nationslists. Which is not true. Let me tell you i respect all visa holders who ever you are and i am disgusted that user is allowed to get away with it

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

"400K is the right level especially when one considers the level required in the United States for a US=Thai marriage is $21,000 and the United Kingdom about the same."  What???  The American government does not require an American Citizen who is married to a Thai to have $21,000 in a US bank.  

 

Once your spouse receives their "green card" (ability to work in the US) there is no financial requirement, 90 day reporting, TM forms from everything for taking a trip to a change of address, or any other nonsensical requirement.  The Americans treat Thai spouses far better than the Thai's treat American spouses.

Ditto'ing this.

 

For a US citizen at least, all you have to do is at the time of a green card application show that you have enough resources, and you are correct, and as I recall it's $24K annual income, or assets equal to 3x that, and that she won't be a burden on the public for 2 years.

But she enters the US as a permanent resident (green card), same rights, work privileges, freedom of movement etc as any other US citizen. 

The only thing she can't do is vote essentially, and at the end of 3 years she's eligible to become a US citizen by default.

 

A tad different to how the farang spouse of a Thai citizen is treated, don't ya think?