Big Joke: Promises easier, faster and more "watertight" Immigration rules

[JimGant]

Quote

The man known as Big Joke even went so far as to specifically mention "people of color and South Africans" as a problem.  Over the last two years these people and others have been a problem and if the immigration police know where they are that will be a help.

MFA and Immigration have, historically, not seemed to be on the same page. However, the following from the Thai Embassy Washington site, about who can apply for a visa by mail, has the following:

 

Quote

Nationalities and passport holders of the following countries must apply for visa in person only, and present original resident alien card or US visa:
Nigeria, Central African Republic, Cameroon, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea, Ghana, Liberia, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Somalia, and Sudan

Not fool proof, but certainly helpful in reducing the number of bad actors that big joke's outfit has to deal with. Interesting that South Africa isn't on that list....

[Lovethailandelite]

22 minutes ago, Dah fahrang said:

I wonder? Might the "Thai Immgration chief" have been looking around? Are "we" moving towards this?

http://www.retireinasia.com/visa-requirements-to-retire-in-malaysia/

then this

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Malaysia/Malaysia-Guide/Visas-Permits/Permanent-residence-in-Malaysia

and finally, this

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/home/programme/about-mm2h-programme

 

 

Correct, it has been looked at and considered for quite some period of time.

[gunderhill]

8 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I think you misunderstood. The meeting had nothing to do with this topic.
There should of been an announcement regarding the police orders about the alcohol sales ban called for over the SongKran holiday. That appears to of manifested from a one day ban on the 13th April too a complete ban over the whole of the period due to SongKran being celebrated on different days in different provinces/towns. Nothing was decided as those making the decision have been unavailable due to other, more important things.The media seems to be running with the story today.
I have no more information or indeed a date for any further update.

You said a  "whole raft" of  measures  were coming but did  not elaborate,is  that because you simply  don't  know in any way?

I'm also curious as to why you have this information? is  this  your  job?

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Agreed.

 

The (mostly Thai-Chinese) Old Guard Thais, in my experience, generally passionately HATE farang, and it doesn't matter if the farang are rich or poor, educated or not. I worked among them for many years. 

 

One of the reasons many farang think Thailand is unassailable is because they, being either retirees, or perhaps due to careers of limited socioeconomic reach, or both, have almost no contact with these psuedo elite Thais.

 

Thai-Chinese Old Guard do not want elite farang - - because

 

1. they KNOW they cannot compete with these farang (Lost Face) 

 

2. more important, farang, unlike Asians, will not play the game pretending that Thais are up to standard. Farang will spare no opportunities to make these snob Thai-Chinese aware of how unskilled and unclassy and poorly educated and poorly cultured they are. (Lost Face) 

 

They prefer that Thailand remain a playground full of smiling, compliant, brown people. THEIR brown people. They will tolerate a few inconsequential farang (many of whom marry into Thai families the Thai-Chinese consider low birth). 

 

Probably quite correct in some cases but not exactly in my experience.   Though I totally agree that the moment you make any Thai lose face, you are toast.

When I go into shops I always look at what Buddhas are on display to understand if I am dealing with Thais or Chinese Thais.  Here in the countryside, Chinese Thais own most of the larger more financially successful shops and are in my experience are more easy to deal with.  There are exceptions though, but some of them are just pig ignorant even to their Thai customers.  Many Chinese Thais have better educated English speaking family working in the shop.  Many of them (being richer than many local Thais), travel overseas and are more cosmopolitan in their outlook. "Where you come from?  Here are my photos from when I went there."  Some of them took a few visits to warm to me as a new customer but eventually even the older generation parents start to admit to some English and our transactions improved relying less on "Google images" in my smart phone.   Some I am familiar with have granny sitting or lying in the shop behind the till.  I always acknowledge them with a smile and/or a wai and it is almost always noted and appreciated.  And then the whole family are usually VERY polite to me too.   When in Rome.............

[Vacuum]

24 minutes ago, baansgr said:

many work illegally as teachers

If so, they must be employed by 'not so legal' schools.

[The Deerhunter]

12 minutes ago, JimGant said:

MFA and Immigration have, historically, not seemed to be on the same page. However, the following from the Thai Embassy Washington site, about who can apply for a visa by mail, has the following:

 

Not fool proof, but certainly helpful in reducing the number of bad actors that big joke's outfit has to deal with. Interesting that South Africa isn't on that list....

Possible he meant people from Southern Africa.  ( would have just said " MOST OF AFRICA.") Or perhaps slip of the tongue or doesn't know the difference.............

[Lovethailandelite]

11 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You said a  "whole raft" of  measures  were coming but did  not elaborate,is  that because you simply  don't  know in any way?

I'm also curious as to why you have this information? is  this  your  job?

There is BUT it isn't my job to speculate or announce any of it and particularly before the final decision that may or not have already been taken. There is likely to be an announcement on or around the 24th April after SongKran.

[Kwasaki]

35 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

They will tolerate a few inconsequential farang (many of whom marry into Thai families the Thai-Chinese consider low birth). 

So I should be OK to stay then.? 

[Lovethailandelite]

3 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Possible he meant people from Southern Africa.  ( would have just said " MOST OF AFRICA.") Or perhaps slip of the tongue or doesn't know the difference.............

SA passport holders are already restricted in the ability of where they can and can't apply for visas in the region. Some Embassys they cannot apply in. Other's can make them take 2 visits 4 weeks apart.
Tourist visas issued in Pretoria are stamped 'Apply visa in home country'. Meaning they need to return too SA in order to get another visa.

[Kwasaki]

15 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

If so, they must be employed by 'not so legal' schools.

Many schools outside say Bangkok let's also say the outskirts all around Thailand take on people that speak English.

 

Many don't bother to get them a WP if asked because it don't affect them, many schools don't even know they need a WP.

 

I had a 2 day teaching career in a school  ????  and left because they refused to get me a WP they said I didn't need to bother with that.

 

[ThomasThBKK]

32 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Correct, it has been looked at and considered for quite some period of time.

 

i honestly wouldn't mind the malaysian system.

At least it's a longterm visa with no bs, no stupid 90 day reports, tm30 bs and the other shortcomings. Also it's for people of age 35 plus and not 50 plus like here....

[humbug]

34 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I think you misunderstood. The meeting had nothing to do with this topic.
There should of been an announcement regarding the police orders about the alcohol sales ban called for over the SongKran holiday. That appears to of manifested from a one day ban on the 13th April too a complete ban over the whole of the period due to SongKran being celebrated on different days in different provinces/towns. Nothing was decided as those making the decision have been unavailable due to other, more important things.The media seems to be running with the story today.
I have no more information or indeed a date for any further update.

i lost your reply in my other post but it seems you pander far too much to the whims of an illegal nationslist gang who have put in place people in every department over 5 years to create a nationslist fiasco including the imm. dept.

 

its laughable, well i had a good laugh that anyone under these naff economic times thinking to re-hash the 3 million investment visa blah blah that was dispanded years ago. These nationalists just wont be around in 5 years. Maybe 1-2 years tops.

 

Then what?reality check, trying to forge friendships with foreign investors again, laughable, they wont come back, that boat would have sailed.

 

last 12 months billions of dollars have exited from investment funds, now some of the smaller guys are going up yours

 

insurance, reporting, increase of investment requirements,its a twisted nationslist game.And after sunday the chuckle p gang couldnt even rig their own rigged game correctly without getting caught.

There is no way they will be alowed to keep messing this upby their billion dollar partners. And thats before the people start taking back control. Its starting and these nationalists policies will be discarded for the sake of a sinking economy.

[dcnx]

45 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

it's time for  those in power to stop  treating everyone as a potential criminal.

This is unfortunately the part most of you don’t understand. Xenophobia is alive and kicking here, that means to those who are xenophobic, we’re all untrustworthy. We’re all painted with the same brush, the good and the bad, out of their fear and distrust of foreigners.

 

The fact that you have a Thai family and are a “good guy” means absolutely nothing to them. You may as well be a scamming Nigerian.

 

By definition:

 

“Xenophobia is the fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Xenophobia can involve perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup and can manifest itself in suspicion of the activities of others, and a desire to eliminate their presence to secure a presumed purity and may relate to a fear of losing national, ethnic or racial identity.”

 

I hate to be that guy, but some of you are in la-la land. This isn’t going to end well for most of you. The current government and people making immigration rules do not trust or like us. They want us out to so they can preserve their culture and way of life. In their minds, we are the reason their culture is eroding.

 

Unless decision makers are replaced by others who are not xenophobic, we’re all in for a world of hurt. It doesn’t matter if you do things the right way or the wrong way, how long you’ve been here, or how safe you think you are.

 

We’re all targets at the moment and Big Joke is dreaming up new ways to rid his precious Thailand of untrustworthy foreigners. You’re in for a rude awakening if you can’t see that.

[Thaiarrow]

2 hours ago, mokwit said:

The failure of Thaiarrow to identify after specifically being asked to do so is a strong tell - someone acting in an official capacity would recognise that to maintain credibility they would pretty much have to identify themselves under those circumstances.

Your attention is directed to  the previous response;

Official statements and news for immigration matters can be found here in foreign language; https://www.immigration.go.th/index . The two sections are News and Announcements.

The reliable source of information on immigration matters is the government, not anonymous persons making claims on Facebook, Panthip, Nation Media website. 

[humbug]

6 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

i honestly wouldn't mind the malaysian system.

At least it's a longterm visa with no bs, no stupid 90 day reports, tm30 bs and the other shortcomings. Also it's for people of age 35 plus and not 50 plus like here....

yes but malaysia copied some of their programme from the thai's 3 million baht investment visa which was ended years ago . Nowadays under these nationalists even less people will go for it. There is also the issue of 3 million in, lots if hassles when transferring out. But never mind i am sure some nationslist will hope to promote it and find out that people will just laugh at the idea and go ,up yours,this is thailand not switzerland where people still use pavements as toilets. 

If you had a stable free and democratic gov. for a few years, then i can see 1 or 2 going yeah thats not too bad, but under these nationslists , no way 

and whose to say the joker boy wont be sidelined soon enough when the billion dollar partners start panicking about the economy and put in place more welcoming ideas at imm. yeah i am dreaming right now but over the next 1-2 years things on this land will be different. Last sunday saw to that, its the start of people wanting these goons out 

[crees]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

While I am really quite tired of Thai Immigration continually changing the goal posts; different office having different policies and an imposition of constant reporting our whereabouts- I thought it might be interesting to compare Thailand's requirements to the US.

 

In Order to obtain a 'marriage visa' to the US- one needs to have a verified income of just over $21,000.  The average income  of an American is $58,000.    

 

In order to obtain a marriage visa in Thailand the male spouse must have the equivalent of 400,000 Thai Baht ($12,700)  in a Thai bank or  a monthly income of  40,000 Thai Baht for 12 months which is 480.000 Baht ($15.240)/   The average income of a Thai is $6,000.

 

In the US there will be no  90 day reporting to Immigration and the  admitted spouse has all the rights and benefits of the citizen.

 

In Thailand- an admitted spouse has to file proof of address; then refile each time they leave the country and return plus do a report to Immigration every 90 days.

 

Regarding a tourist who enters the US- they must show proof of having sufficient income to stay in the US for the period of their visit which includes proof of income.

If a tourist to the US overstays their Visa by less than 180 days- they are not blacklisted; they are not fined and can return with a new visa at anytime.

 

A tourist who enters Thailand needs only 10,000 or 20,000 Baht for their stay.  If they overstay for even 1 day and are caught they are blacklisted for 5 years.  In addition, they are charged 500 Baht per day.  Even if they turn themselves in and have overstayed  90 days or more- they pay the 500 baht per day fine up to 20K  plus are banned for 1 year up to 5.

 

For Thailand to even consider raising the amounts  for retirement or marriage shows a complete lack of understanding of the demographics;  the rights of  non citizens to marry and be accorded fair treatment under the  United nations  

 

If Thailand wants to rid the country of potential criminal aliens- it needs to concentrate on  those who enter Visa Free or with VOA.   These are the people who will overstay; come in quickly-rob a bank or steal from an ATM or set up a boiler room.

 

I would do the following-

 

1.  Stop free Visa entry to those countries that show an above  average level of  citizens involved in crime.

2.  Increase the level of funding needed to enter for certain countries that have many overstays or engaged in business scams.

3. Start regulating businesses  that are run by foreigners using fake nominees/

4. Reform the use of agents

5. Make IO's follow the actual published rules and stop  allowing them to make up their own rules.

6. Hire moire Immigration agents who are completely trained in the latest  techniques of AI and  understand how to quickly cross reference databases.

 

IMO the foreigners that are hardly ever involved in crime of any type are the retired and those who are married to Thais.  They do not fit the profile at all and are generally going about their business and respectful of Thai people and the law. As such, it's time for  those in power to stop  treating everyone as a potential criminal.

and with that said … I still have more freedom in Thailand

[mokwit]

8 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Your attention is directed to  the previous response;

Official statements and news for immigration matters can be found here in foreign language; https://www.immigration.go.th/index . The two sections are News and Announcements.

The reliable source of information on immigration matters is the government, not anonymous persons making claims on Facebook, Panthip, Nation Media website. 

So why if that is the case, if you are an official of the Thai Govt would you be posting anonymously here - If you are not an official of the Thai Govt then it begs the question why are you posting on a website as if you were an official of the Thai authorities e.g. use of "we".

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

So why if that is the case, if you are an official of the Thai Govt you would be posting anonymously here - If you are not an official of the Thai Govt then it begs the question why  are you posting on a website as if you were an official of the Thai authorities e.g. use of "we".

It's obvious - have you not considered that old old saying about the Internet "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog"?

[crees]

Those who visit Disneyland with empty pockets are asked to leave … and don't let the door hit you on your way out

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

It's obvious - have you not considered that old old saying about the Internet "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog"?

On TV nobody know you are a Teechuh (actually we can usually work it out)

[fforest1]

16 minutes ago, mokwit said:

So why if that is the case, if you are an official of the Thai Govt would you be posting anonymously here - If you are not an official of the Thai Govt then it begs the question why are you posting on a website as if you were an official of the Thai authorities e.g. use of "we".

Same question could be asked of the posters who endlessly post about how they are sitting pretty and Thailand needs to kick out all the poor farang riff-raff who cant meet the ever changing goal posts....Do they get payed per post or what?

These bores post the same rubbish endlessly.... 

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, fforest1 said:

Some question could be asked of the posters who endlessly post about how they are sitting pretty and Thailand needs to kick out all the poor farang riff-raff who cant meet the ever changing goal posts....Do they get payed per post or what?

Only in the coin of self-righteousness

[mokwit]

Just now, ThaiBunny said:

Only in the coin of self-righteousness

Seem to remember the preacher saying how the sanctimonious would get their comeuppance - probably get thrown a curved ball in the form of a condition for visa extension issuance unrelated to the possession of vast wealth such as theirs.

[zydeco]

2 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Some question could be asked of the posters who endlessly post about how they are sitting pretty and Thailand needs to kick out all the poor farang riff-raff who cant meet the ever changing goal posts....Do they get payed per post or what?

Think about it. If you were wealthy and set for life in a Thailand, without a care in the world and the ability to lunch and dine at the finest restaurants, attend the most eagerly anticipated entertainment venues, and lounge on your 60 million baht teak house's rear veranda sipping expensive vintage wine while overlooking the serfs working your fields--as most of those posters indicate they are--wouldn't you spend 24/7 on TVF criticizing everyone else?

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Think about it. If you were wealthy and set for life in a Thailand, without a care in the world and the ability to lunch and dine at the finest restaurants, attend the most eagerly anticipated entertainment venues, and lounge on your 60 million baht teak house's rear veranda sipping expensive vintage wine while overlooking the serfs working your fields--as most of those posters indicate they are--wouldn't you spend 24/7 on TVF criticizing everyone else?

Translation: Internet is the only thing these fukkas can afford in Thailand.

[Khaeng Mak]

1 hour ago, vinniekintana said:

Any links to that 25 yr visa?

Last time I checked it was yearly visas and loads of paperwork (much more than Thai)

Copy of legislation here:

http://www.expat.or.id/info/UU6-Tahun2011-ImmigrationLaw.pdf

Summarized as follows here:

http://www.indonesiaimmigration.com/index.php?mib=products.detail&id=0000000382

And yes you are allowed to work to provide for your family.

Cost of the visa is 3 million rupiah. About USD260.

[Thaiarrow]

After close examination of all comments made on the subject, it is obvious, that a very small number of people make the negative comments. Over 35 million people visit Thailand every year under the different visas, and from reading Nation Media forum here, it seems 20 people have a problem because they do not have income or financial solvency. Maybe there are 100 or maybe 1000 who have same position. This is  less than 0.0029% of visa holders. Now, should you not ask yourself, why do such a small number of people expect the regulations to be made for their convenience? 

 

Few countries have been as generous and kind to foreigners who are social benefit recipients. Thailand has paid the medical costs of many foreigners who have not been able to pay or who have benefited from public health care. However, it is time that the regulations be updated to reflect the year 2562.  Again, readers are reminded that the pending changes have received support from the foreign business community with no objections raised during consultations. Investors and business professionals will continue to be welcomed. Tourists with appropriate visa qualifications will continue to be welcomed. Yes, a small, very small, number of people may not be able to remain in Thailand. It is best for everyone that these people go to their homelands where they can be looked after by their families and government. 

 

It is also noted the very positive comments made about foreign visa rules in other countries. This is delightful if it is a solution for the people who are most unhappy. Not everyone can be made happy when  regulations must be made to protect the largest number of people. Thailand regulations are enacted to reflect Thailand needs and economic conditions. Other countries do the same.

[Khaeng Mak]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The country has a perfectly legitimate working government. They are absolutely 100% not in limbo. You really shouldn't listen to internet and media talk.

Hmm...your definition of legitimate must be entirely different from mine.

[mokwit]

12 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Tourists with appropriate visa qualifications will continue to be welcomed.

12 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Investors and business professionals will continue to be welcomed.

12 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Again, readers are reminded that the pending changes have received support from the foreign business community with no objections raised during consultations.

So how do you know this? Were you present or appraised of internal policy matters and discussions. How are you so sure that certain groups will continue to be welcomed when you are not the Thai Govt - how can you say what the Thai govt will do if you are not the Thai govt.

 

I await you answer when you have time at the next free period.

[Thaiarrow]

22 minutes ago, mokwit said:

So why if that is the case, if you are an official of the Thai Govt would you be posting anonymously here - If you are not an official of the Thai Govt then it begs the question why are you posting on a website as if you were an official of the Thai authorities e.g. use of "we".

We are trying to help. Sometimes when people are very angry it blinds them and they cannot see. Please to remain calm. And again, no one can speak for the government unless duly authorized and designated with the most appropriate source of information from the ministry. Please refer to the website. If you have questions, please do what people do every day, and call in or write to the ministry. Better yet, make an appointment and come by for a discussion. 

 

It is sad that you are unhappy with possible improvements to the regulations, but as is said many times, when there are tens of millions of visas granted with no issues, the failure of a small number to qualify is not an issue in the big number. The small number of foreigners who will not qualify for long term visa, will most likely continue to qualify for the standard tourist visa and they are welcome to visit. No one is being stopped from visiting if they are a good guy. However, some people with no financial means must understand that it is best that they go where they can be cared for best. Again, the number of people who may actually be impacted by some regulations update is very, very small, and the general position from the international business community is positive.