Big Joke: Promises easier, faster and more "watertight" Immigration rules

[sumrit]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

But Channel 7 mentioned specifically the problem of agents handling visa extensions and the issue of having 800,000 baht in the bank.

I can't believe that after fourteen pages nobody has mentioned this comment from the OP.

 

After the recent changes, the agents have been boasting 'no money? no problem, business as usual'.

 

I wonder if they'll be more selective with their wording from now on.

[Thaiarrow]

4 minutes ago, mokwit said:

If user "Thaiarrow" writing as if he were the Thai authorities is indeed such I think it would be best if he/she categorically identified themselves as such. I make this request as Thaivisa.com is overrun with sanctimonious foreigners who think they speak for the Thai authorities and thus it would be best if this could be delineated. HTH

Thank you for your excellent question.

Official statements and news for immigration matters can be found here in foreign language;  https://www.immigration.go.th/index . The two sections are News and Announcements. Readers can be assured of reliability when statements are obtained from appropriate government outlet. Only officially designated sources can be relied upon for information and this includes all official interpretations of visa regulations.

 

One of the weaknesses of your forum is that it allows for many incorrect claims and statements of immigration process that do not reflect actual process. To date such statements have gone unchecked and allow the spreading of false information, internet rumours. Sorry to say, but so many negative complaints are not reasonable. For example, your forum has many complaints because the Thai baht is strong and a desired foreign currency purchase. People complain in a very rude manner because the Thailand economy is strong and growing. This is not reasonable, to complain because of good management.

 

It is unfortunate that a very small of people are afraid of their situation or who are in a financial delicate situation. However, fgor the overwhelming number of legitimate tourists, business visa holders, and resident visa holders, they will see no negative impact from regulation changes. This must be emphasized. Thailand continues to be a top destination for short term visitors and a much desired investment point of entry. None of that will change. Perhaps a  small number of people who do not have financial strength will go back to home country. This is sad for them, but Thailand is not to blame because of their  situation. On the contrary, Thailand can be thanked for taking care of them, by making sure that they go to a place where they will be taken care of because they cannot care for themselves. 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

New?  Maybe in terms of tourism, but the Cinese connection to/with Thailand is hardly a recent development and, aside from the mention of South Africa, there's nothing to suggest that any nationality is being targeted.

 

I seriously doubt that Thailand is looking to encourage a massive influx of Chinese retirees, spouses for Thais or small scale businesses run by Chinese beyond the ethnic Chinese Thais who already are settled here in significant numbers. 

The funny thing is he targets South Africans but still allow visa exempt entry. If we are such a problem why not stop visa exemption. Let us apply for visas then they can screen us. Well the truth is if he did that then South African will retaliate and then the weak Thai passport will become weaker with one less visa exempt country. By the way did he provide any statistical proof of what he said or must we just believe him blindly? 

[thurien]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Says absolutely nothing other than a load of waffle about doing "something" while reinforcing the blatant racism Thailand has towards black people.

no one cares about the ever-diminishing white minority in TH anymore, the final blow to all "whitish" will be the Indians (I saw them last night again on BR in droves, a fairly unpleasant, ever- increasing bunch...to say the least)

[Jim7777]

Oh jeez this article is just based on some brief channel 7 news story relax.  With the new immigration police orders in effect they kind of have to update the “1979” Immigration Act this year duh.  This is just another attention getting article.  

Edited March 28, 2019 by Jim7777

[zydeco]

37 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Thailand must act to protect the almost 70 million citizens.

How is it protecting my 73 year old Thai landlady with Parkinson's by forcing her to spend 700 baht round trip for a taxi to Chaeng Wattana in order to turn in a TM30?

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Thank you for your excellent question.

Official statements and news for immigration matters can be found here in foreign language;  https://www.immigration.go.th/index . The two sections are News and Announcements. Readers can be assured of reliability when statements are obtained from appropriate government outlet. Only officially designated sources can be relied upon for information and this includes all official interpretations of visa regulations.

 

One of the weaknesses of your forum is that it allows for many incorrect claims and statements of immigration process that do not reflect actual process. To date such statements have gone unchecked and allow the spreading of false information, internet rumours. Sorry to say, but so many negative complaints are not reasonable. For example, your forum has many complaints because the Thai baht is strong and a desired foreign currency purchase. People complain in a very rude manner because the Thailand economy is strong and growing. This is not reasonable, to complain because of good management.

 

It is unfortunate that a very small of people are afraid of their situation or who are in a financial delicate situation. However, fgor the overwhelming number of legitimate tourists, business visa holders, and resident visa holders, they will see no negative impact from regulation changes. This must be emphasized. Thailand continues to be a top destination for short term visitors and a much desired investment point of entry. None of that will change. Perhaps a  small number of people who do not have financial strength will go back to home country. This is sad for them, but Thailand is not to blame because of their  situation. On the contrary, Thailand can be thanked for taking care of them, by making sure that they go to a place where they will be taken care of because they cannot care for themselves. 

Thank you for your reply, but I am afraid it does not address what I suggested - specifically that if you are the Thai authorities it would be best if you categorically identify yourself as such. I would not ask that you give name or position but just confirm which Thai Government agency you represent. I note that you have failed to do so.

 

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, mokwit said:

Thank you for your reply, but I am afraid it does not address what I suggested - specifically that if you are the Thai authorities it would be best if you categorically identify yourself as such. I would not ask that you give name or position but just confirm which Thai Government agency you represent. I note that you have failed to do so.

 

 

What?

 

You are expecting him to identify himself?

 

But..but..responsibility..and all that.

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Your assessment does not reflect the position of the foreign investment community, which has been overwhelmingly positive to proposed improvements and updates of business visa regulations. For those  foreigners who are on legitimate business and professional visa, they will see no impact on their status or ease of entry. On the contrary, Thailand has made sure to provide additional support and assistance to the commercial enterprises who have actively sought to have bigger presence. Some of Thailand's international hospitality enterprises have benefited tremendously from the open and welcoming visa grant, and they call this a win win situation. Thailand is a very popular destination for foreign business investors, and it can be expected that the business visa strategy will continue to support the strong business investment growth result. There have been no negative statements made by any of Thailand's grateful foreign investment groups and all welcome the visa regulation updates that promote ease of investment activity.

 

Thailand must act to protect the almost 70 million citizens. Thailand has some of the easiest to attain visa grants with requirements that were based upon financial conditions that applied as far back as 1979. It is not unusual for  a government to adjust its financial benchmarks to reflect changes over time.

 

We are sorry for your delicate economic position. However, we do wish to emphasize that it is not the fault of Thailand if you are not financially solvent or in a position to adapt to reasonable changes in financial safety safety requirements.

You are reminded that any change in the very generous and easy visa requirements acts to protect the visa holder as well since it is intended to discourage those who are not of financial strength and ability to stay in Thailand. For such people, short term tourist visa may be best option and they can visit for a few weeks from time to time.

Your statement does not address the concerns of the majority of people who use this forum.

 

We are not business people; do not enter on Non B Visas and do not extend based upon a business or investment interest .

 

The majority of us are either married to Thai citizens; retired or both.  In my case it is both- having a total of 40 years married to a Thai citizen and having been in a retired status for 5 years.

 

All of us recognize that Thailand needs to make sure  that people who enter are using the proper methodology.  However, we have already entered; we have already extended; we have already married and we have done it all legally.

 

The current changes in the Police Order  have preserved the 800K  requirement for retired people and 400K for married. These limits are sufficient to ensure individuals have the proper amounts to live quite well in Thailand. Many of have purchased homes; bought cars and provided support to our extended Thai family. These limits are well above what the average Thai family makes and needs to sustain their existence.  I would also add that there are very few people who are retired here or married that are involved in any type of crime or any type of illegal marriages.

 

Almost universally the problems have occurred because certain Nationalities have been allowed free entry that should not or accorded  Visa On Arrival privileges that should not.  This is a problem for the MOFA to sort out/ In addition, most of the criminal activity  involves tourists or those entering on tourist Visas. You want to raise income levels- raise the monies a tourist must show before getting a Visa not the monies a retiree or a person married to a Thai must show as this group is not the ones who cause any trouble.

 

As far as individuals retiring without the proper funds- this can be sorted out quite easily  by simply asking for documentation of income.  As far as fake marriages- there are already enough safeguards in place and since marriages are  registered at the local Ampur level- this is the place  the documentation can be checked as all Thais have a proper National ID Card and each foreigner needs  an Embassy clearance.

 

The vast majority of us are excellent citizens and  abide by Thai law and preserve Thai culture.  We do not deserve to be mentioned in the same categories as criminals 

 

If you do have some insight into what is taking place in Immigration- you may want to point out that we are not tourists- we are your neighbors and all we are asking is for fair and equal treatment.

[maprao]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Many of the ones who can still obtain a L.o.I. from their embassy, aren't at all. 

 

Addendum :

So far. 

 

The letters disappeared  mainly because all the complaining on here highlighted all issues directly to immigration.  My opinion only. Done by Brits Americans and Aussies....???? guess whose letters dissapeared; the very same. Reap the seeds you sow and all that

[lamyai3]

11 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

One of the weaknesses of your forum 

In what capacity or on who's behalf are you addressing your comments? Surely by contributing here it's as much your forum as anyone else's? 

[emptypockets]

7 minutes ago, Thaiarrow said:

Thank you for your excellent question.

Official statements and news for immigration matters can be found here in foreign language;  https://www.immigration.go.th/index . The two sections are News and Announcements. Readers can be assured of reliability when statements are obtained from appropriate government outlet. Only officially designated sources can be relied upon for information and this includes all official interpretations of visa regulations.

 

One of the weaknesses of your forum is that it allows for many incorrect claims and statements of immigration process that do not reflect actual process. To date such statements have gone unchecked and allow the spreading of false information, internet rumours. Sorry to say, but so many negative complaints are not reasonable. For example, your forum has many complaints because the Thai baht is strong and a desired foreign currency purchase. People complain in a very rude manner because the Thailand economy is strong and growing. This is not reasonable, to complain because of good management.

 

It is unfortunate that a very small of people are afraid of their situation or who are in a financial delicate situation. However, fgor the overwhelming number of legitimate tourists, business visa holders, and resident visa holders, they will see no negative impact from regulation changes. This must be emphasized. Thailand continues to be a top destination for short term visitors and a much desired investment point of entry. None of that will change. Perhaps a  small number of people who do not have financial strength will go back to home country. This is sad for them, but Thailand is not to blame because of their  situation. On the contrary, Thailand can be thanked for taking care of them, by making sure that they go to a place where they will be taken care of because they cannot care for themselves. 

Will Thailand take care of any spouse and/or children left behind to a similar standard that the foreigner did?

Or will Thailand enable the foreigners family to accompany him to the new place perhaps through a Government to Government agreement?

Or will Thailand view the breakdown of the family unit as simple collateral damage?

I thought there were more than enough children growing up without a fathers presence in Thailand already - is Thailand happy for this number to increase?

Why not make the path to permanent residency and then to citizenship much easier for a married person?

My wife has achieved PR in Australia and is now on track for Citizenship. Will the new changes allow for a reciprocal system?

Will the new system see foreign men married to a Thai lady treated in the same manner as a foreign lady married to a Thai man?

 

While agree business and investment is very important I don't think it is more important than your own citizens.

[emptypockets]

14 minutes ago, thurien said:

no one cares about the ever-diminishing white minority in TH anymore, the final blow to all "whitish" will be the Indians (I saw them last night again on BR in droves, a fairly unpleasant, ever- increasing bunch...to say the least)

I dare say many Thais feel the same way about you.

[Kaopad999]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I can hardly wait.  I've been prepping my wife, son, and extended family for a couple of years now that Immigration may finally pass laws that will essentially make it impossible for me to stay in Thailand and support my family as solid middle-class citizens.  That is what BJ sounds like he's projecting.  I see it coming.  I meet all the financial requirements without a problem - now.  But wait for them to raise the bar yet again.  Who suffers.  We all will.  I'll lose all the sunk assets I've invested in our home.  But anything liquid goes with me so that I can once more establish residency (real permanent residency this time) in a different county, which would leave the family in a dire situation. 
And I doubt that one Thai bureaucratic bigwig would lose a minute of sleep. 
For a country whose citizens claim to be Buddhists, I seen virtually no actually compassion expressed toward anyone but their fellow Thais, and I don't see a lot of that either, as status trumps compassion.

 

100% facts. Thank you

[Danthai]

Not sure from the article that BJ was actually thinking the crime is coming from married with families and long time retires, but more the tourists/visa runners that sneak in the country illegally and hide out. Romance scammers, pickpockets, criminals hiding out, etc. Many seem to come from ASEAN countries, Eastern Europe, etc. Not saying everyone is bad. but seems like this last few years they seem to have been catching many including those overstaying their visas on purpose.

[luckyluke]

21 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

Karma have many theories

 

I am one of the nationalities which embassy still issue a L.o.I..

 

My embassy has modified the lay out of the letter, in accordance to the demand of Immigration. 

 

It seems that some here are not pleased at all with this, and hope Immigration will cancel this possibility of showing their income. 

 

Apparently some call that Karma, I call that Schadenfreude. 

 

What I should like, personally, is that the 3 embassies left (Danish embassy has modified their initial refuse)  find a solution to accommodate the gross of their citizens. 

 

The difference :

I wish everybody to be satisfied.

 

Opposite to others who wish that everyone would be unsatisfied, because due to circumstances they are. 

 

Maybe "Karma" should apply to these. 

[Jaxxper]

6 hours ago, jethro69 said:

Well you just forgot the urine and blood samples, with goes together with a mandatory drug test.

The medical history of the past 25 years.

A police record notarized by your embassy no older than 6 months.

A full list of all your social media accounts and e-mail adresses which will be verified at the spot.

In case of travelling, keeping all receipts of bus/boat/plane and taxis, as well as accommodation receipts for at least the length of your current visa. To facilitate the progress Tuk-Tuk and Songteaw are excluded if you can prove there was none of the other transport facilities available at time of travel.

 

Oh I could go on, but I'm too busy packing, Saturday morning I'm out. ???? 

Bye, have a safe trip.

[Odysseus123]

25 minutes ago, maprao said:

The letters disappeared  mainly because all the complaining on here highlighted all issues directly to immigration.  My opinion only. Done by Brits Americans and Aussies....???? guess whose letters dissapeared; the very same. Reap the seeds you sow and all that

Your opinion would be wrong.

 

The various embassies put out very detailed explanations as to why they ceased the letters.

 

Given the pressure from Thai Immigration (you all remember those fun bunnies,don't you?) they stated that they simply could not legally verify the claims made on the affadavits and that therefore they would have to cease the letters.

 

Now't but a brain dead newt could have possibly misunderstood their position.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Odysseus123

[tracy3eyes]

7 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

Maybe I'm deluded but at least I don't suffer from chronic paranoia. BJ is just trying to eradicate all the expats who acquire their extensions illegally or through the back door. The problem is in doing so they are  inadvertently going to tread on the toes of the expats who's applications are legal and above board.  

 

Its naughty school kid syndrome. One kid misbehaves and doesn't own up so the whole class gets punished.  

He's not just stepping on toes of the legal and above board expats but eradicating them also! I for one who has had both marriage ext and retirement ext since 2004 and a number of businesses, employed Thai's and always paid my taxes. I also have a Thai wife and children aged 11 & 13. But the changes made by thai immigration have posed a massive problem for me being able to renew my ext in Sept 19.

 

I have always been able to meet the requirements of a minimum net pension income of 65000 and used the LOI from the embassy to provide evidence of this. With backup documentation of letter from pension company, P60's, bank statements etc so my ext's have always been smooth. However, that will now end because I have to meet the new rule of transferring a minimum of 65000 baht to my Thai bank account every month which is not possible for me to be able to fulfil this requirement yet I do have a higher than 65000 net pension. Note that I also have property assets in Thai. But because I have other commitments in UK & Spain I have to meet each month it is now not possible for me to transfer 65000 baht every month as required. So I am one of those to be eradicated! Nice policy and nice way to treat those who have contributed to the Thai economy over the last 14 years. Yet now it appears I will not be able to renew my ext in Sept because I have not be able to transfer 65000 a month to my Thai bank. Some years ago I had millions of baht in my Thai bank accounts but now unfortunately not.

 

So I am now basically f.cked! And as I believe are so many other legitimate expats who qualify in terms of income but cant get the amounts required to their Thai bank accounts without failing to meet their home/other country commitments. I could manage 45000 to a Thai bank account each month at a push. Also, failure to take into account real estate assets is another flaw because this would provide evidence that the applicant has means!

 

My two pennies.

 

 

[Caldera]

At least he clarified what he means with "AI" - nothing more than fingerprint and iris scanners. Their imminent arrival has been announced for at least a decade.

[Chrisswe]

7 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Easier, faster and more watertight =

 

• 1.6 million baht on deposit for 12 months for retirement extension
• 800K baht on deposit for 12 months for wedding extension
• 30 day reporting with full finger printing and facial scan on each occassion
• 10K baht fine for not doing TM30 report (payable by foreigner on next extension application)
• Compulsory medical insurance payable to agent at each immigration office. No choice of providers
• New stamps that will burn a full page in your passport, not just half a page like the previous ones.

 

There will be many condos for sale if this come true !!!!!!

[Jim walker]

you stop the criminals at the airport not once they are established and living  here

[Jaxxper]

Glad to see there is another issue that has got the keyboard tappers started again. The Thb 800/400 k posts were starting to get repetitive, boring, but thankfully finally starting to thin out. This should keep the keyboards tapping going for at least a month again now.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

He's not just stepping on toes of the legal and above board expats but eradicating them also! I for one who has had both marriage ext and retirement ext since 2004 and a number of businesses, employed Thai's and always paid my taxes. I also have a Thai wife and children aged 11 & 13. But the changes made by thai immigration have posed a massive problem for me being able to renew my ext in Sept 19.

 

I have always been able to meet the requirements of a minimum net pension income of 65000 and used the LOI from the embassy to provide evidence of this. With backup documentation of letter from pension company, P60's, bank statements etc so my ext's have always been smooth. However, that will now end because I have to meet the new rule of transferring a minimum of 65000 baht to my Thai bank account every month which is not possible for me to be able to fulfil this requirement yet I do have a higher than 65000 net pension. Note that I also have property assets in Thai. But because I have other commitments in UK & Spain I have to meet each month it is now not possible for me to transfer 65000 baht every month as required. So I am one of those to be eradicated! Nice policy and nice way to treat those who have contributed to the Thai economy over the last 14 years. Yet now it appears I will not be able to renew my ext in Sept because I have not be able to transfer 65000 a month to my Thai bank. Some years ago I had millions of baht in my Thai bank accounts but now unfortunately not.

 

So I am now basically f.cked! And as I believe are so many other legitimate expats who qualify in terms of income but cant get the amounts required to their Thai bank accounts without failing to meet their home/other country commitments. I could manage 45000 to a Thai bank account each month at a push. Also, failure to take into account real estate assets is another flaw because this would provide evidence that the applicant has means!

 

My two pennies.

 

 

 

Sorry to read this. Decent law abiding expats like yourself shouldn't have to suffer because of the activities of the rotten ones. But sadly, it seems they always take a sledgehammer to crack the walnut approach rather than common sense. People genuinely married, family people, are easily identified by immigration (as in most countries) and the rules should be different (as in most countries) for spouses/parents of Thai nationals. Perhaps BJ will get round to address this in time. Hope so!

 

In the meantime could you either go for an extension based on marriage, less in the bank or perhaps the combination method?

 

Good luck and hope you work something out.

[Danthai]

Everything you said is absolutely true. Kudos! for your accurate comments. 

[luckyluke]

11 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

But because I have other commitments in UK & Spain I have to meet each month it is now not possible for me to transfer 65000 baht every month as required

Never easy when one has to decide what his priorities are. 

[lamyai3]

6 minutes ago, Jim walker said:

you stop the criminals at the airport not once they are established and living  here

They're doing that already, with zero evidence of any wrongdoing. 

[Artisi]

25 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Indeed a common sense post - which will be swamped by the same tired old crew whining. Yet bizarrely they’re still here! 

If all their doomsday crap comes about they hopefully won't be still here..... 

[totally thaied up]

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

People who moved to another country with nothing but a government pension have been kidding themselves that they have somehow earned the right to live away from their homeland and should be concerned, but being a broke farang is hardly the fault of Thailand's immigration policies.

What about the people married, on a pension living a easy life and cannot go home as they made Thailand their home with a family.

 

It has to be a two way street.

[THAIJAMES]

Unfortunately Thailand like many other countries around the world is faced with a massive amounts a foreigners not just European but even more from China India Africa and many other parts of the world.

 

Thailand can't really have different rules for different ethnicities that would not be fair and therefore has no choice but to make their policies more restrictive to keep the hordes of people trying to escape other parts of the world out.

I don't think any of these policies are specifically aimed at westerners.

 

that's very unfortunate for a lot of honest law-abiding people that have been here for many years.  Especially the ones that have families or have been here a long time and have made Thailand their home.

 

They should really have grandfather clauses like they used to in the old days

Edited March 28, 2019 by THAIJAMES