Brits’ Entitlement To Free Medical Care In The Uk

[glenbat]

Anyways there's hardly anyone left in the UK paying Tax/NIC's, they are all on benefits

regards

DAVE

nail on the head Dave.

[Mobi]

Dave the Dude,

You have your wires crossed...TAX and N.I are different! Please check out the Inland Revenue website for upto date info. Just because you have paid tax on earnings does not mean you have paid any or enough N.I. Reading your reply to Boo, I gather you have paid enough of both still in employment in the U.K. The O.P is not and hence the thread.

This is all becoming very difficult..

I believe Dave the Dude is referring to the number of years' conributions you have to make to qualify for 100% state pension. As he said , it used to be 44 years, but under pending legislation is about to be reduced to 30 years. I was even told this last year by an inland revenue official when I enquired how many years voluntary contributions I would have to make to rectify any deficit, and was told that under new rules which will come into effect this year, I will qualify for a full pension, as I have something like 38 years contributions.

I have also paid income taxes up to and including my 60th birthday, even though I was living overseas, as I still received earned income within the UK. I am now fully retired, but will pay tax on my UK pension.

This is the first time I have heard anyone link NI contributions to the subject of whether or not I would qualify for free medical care. I thought the NI contributions only applied to state pension entitlement. All previous stuff I have read has linked medical entitlement to being resident in the UK and being registered with a GP - nothing about making sufficient NI contributions - even though I would think I qualify on that front anyway.

I haven't yet read the links posted on this thread and will do so tomorrow to see if it throws more light, on what is becoming a very complex - and dare I say - controversial subject.

Surely, somewhere there must be some definitive rules and guidance on this?

[boogie]

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/Int...mp;chk=juV%2BQ2

This article above (previously quoted by Loong) basically says you have to be a resident of the UK in order to receive free treatment , regardless of whether or not you have paid contributions, but there are exceptions (Emergencies etc) as explained.

We recently visited the UK and Thailand on vacation, my daughter had some treatment in Bangkok which required a follow up visit to a doctor in the UK. I'm a UK citizen but don't live in the UK. All we had to do was fill out a "Temporary Resident " form for her, and we did not have to pay anything. Mind you it was only for a consultation and check up with a prescription given. The prescription was also free of charge at the pharmacy as she is a child.

I haven't had time to read the whole article linked above, but I think it should answer most queries.

Hope this might help.

Edited March 3, 2007 by boogie

[Penkoprod]

Anyways there's hardly anyone left in the UK paying Tax/NIC's, they are all on benefits

regards

DAVE

nail on the head Dave.

Thats total bullshit for a number of reasons.......

The ammount of people CLAIMING unemployment benefit has gone down to around the million mark and has been for some time.

The ammount of people being DISQUALIFIED from the various types of sickness benefits has gone up.

Disqualification being on the basis of a "points system" that is SO loaded as to make it nigh on impossible to qualify for while you have a pulse !!!!

They are now targetting single mothers, trying to force THEM off benefits earlier and earlier

While we could, no doubt debate the morallity of these actions and claiments rights to them, the figures speak for themselves, in as much as more and more people that USED TO be eligable to claim certain benefits, are no longer entitled to

While i hate the way the Thai authorities are making it progressively more and more difficult us farangs to stay here long term, if the present UK authorities made it half as difficult for our "farangs" to just walz into the country, and rape the system, then a lot of its citizens would be paying far less stealth taxes (with many, many more in the pipeline, btw)

I just wonder where all this money is going to, to be honest

Penkoprod

[Maizefarmer]

Technically, you are not entitled to NHS treatment if you stay out of Uk for more than 3 months. However, if you state that you have returned to the Uk with the intention of staying there your entitlement is reistated.

I cannot imagine any person, resident or not being refused treatment for a serious condition, can you?

What rubbish this statement is.

If you are a UK citizen you cannot be refused treatment, if you are in the UK on any type of legal residence visa you are entitled to free treatment, you can get this by registering with a GP or keeping your registration with a GP open when you are out of the country. Notwithstanding just turn up at any A & E with a valid NI number and treatment will be given treatment.

If as you say it is rubbish, why are so many people, who aught to know better, stating that it is not rubbish.

This is part of the reason that I started this topic. Some say there is a definite rule stating that certain British non residents are not elligible for free treatment, others say that the rule is never applied, and yet more say that the whole thing is rubbish.

Who is correct?

Who can point me to the definitive ruling on this matter?

Or do we just speculate forever more and hope for the best?

Emergency livesaving treatment in the UK has nothing to do with citizenship - you will get it if you need it. However, live overseas for any extended length of time as an- expat on a permenent basis, and ironically will loose your right to have treament under the NHS - and by treament I mean, don't live in Spain for the next few years and then come back just for that hip op, or because you need some other non life saving treatment. The law is clear - you are not entitled to it.

However, that said, have a Uk address, keep it low profile you are living overseas, and quite frankly I can;t see anyone knowing any better - its not as if any due-dilligence is conducted to ascertain where and for how long you have been living anywhere - letr alone at a UK address - and therefore, in practise you are more than likely going to be treated.

MF

Edited March 4, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[tonyevans]

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

The law is 3 months. There was a topic covering this subject a long time ago with links, maybe can find it

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=29842&st=0

One link

Not exactly on the same topic, but loosely related.....

What I find iniquitous is the fact that government pensions are frozen if one moves to live in certain other parts of the world...Thailand being one of them....

I have paid full dues and taxes all my life,yet my pension can never be increased, unless I return to live in the UK.

Not being in the UK,I am not a burden on the infrastructure,thereby saving costs for the government.

There must be many thousands of us who are in the same situation....can anyone suggest a method of contacting them , so that they may form a group which could finance some good lawyers to take this matter, as a class action,to The Court of human Rights?

I realise that it would be a long and rocky road, especially as the defendant is a Government.

The case against the UK government regarding the freezing of some expat pensions has been referred to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. A decision is expected later this year.

It is possible to join one of the expatriate British Pensioners groups who are fighting this case and if the case is successful against the British Government the members of these associations should get the pensions uprated in the future.

I am with the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners who also help UK pensioners living in Thailand. Information can be obtained at www.britishpensions.com

Tony

[Mobi]

Ok, I have now read the government guidelines on this subject, and think I now understand the law on this matter. Here's a summary of my take on it:

1. Free primary medical care, and 'walk in' A& E treatment is available to all who go to the UK, regardless of their residence status.

2. If you have been outside the UK for more than 3 months and have NOT been living in a EEA country, you are NOT ENTITLED TO FREE HOSPITAL TREATMENT, regardless of how much tax & NI contributions you have made, regardless of you status as a UK state pensioner, and regardless of how many years your previously resided in the UK.

3. If it looks like you may need extensive hospital treatment back in the UK, your best bet is to return to the UK, declare your intention to stay there permanently, and register with a GP. There is nothing to stop you subsequently changing your mind and leaving again, if and when you are well enough to do so.

4. It is up to each individual hospital to make what enquiries they deem necessary ( if any) to determine whether a patient is eligible for free hospital treatment.

I have cut and pasted below, some relevant sections of the government guidelines.

Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. "Ordinarily resident" is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

Anyone who is not ordinarily resident is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989, as amended. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident; or exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories; or liable for charges.

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

How do I know if I have to pay?

The Regulations state that the hospital providing treatment is responsible for establishing who is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. They will make their decision in accordance with the Regulations. The hospital can ask you to provide evidence to support any claim to free treatment and it is your responsibility to do so if asked. If the hospital decides you are eligible for free NHS treatment you will still have to pay statutory NHS charges such as prescription charges unless you are otherwise exempt. If the hospital decides you are not entitled to free NHS treatment charges will apply and cannot be waived.

What if I should need hospital treatment?

Under the current Regulations, anyone who spends more than 3 months living outside the UK is no longer automatically entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. This includes people in receipt of UK state retirement pensions. Whether you remain entitled depends on where outside the UK you live, and how long you live there.

Am I entitled to access Primary Care Services?

While visiting the UK you may approach any GP practice within the area you are residing and ask to be accepted as a NHS patient. GP practices are free to decide which patients they accept onto their list of NHS patients. They are, however more likely to accept you if you are intending to live in the UK on a settled basis. If the practice does not wish to accept you onto its list of NHS patients, the practice may offer to treat you as a patient on a private, paying basis.

During your visit to the UK, if you require treatment that a GP or healthcare professional regards as emergency or immediately necessary, you will receive that treatment free of charge, regardless of whether you are registered with a GP practice or not

Do I have to pay for emergency treatment if I have an accident?

Regardless of residential status or nationality, emergency treatment given at Primary Care Practices (a GP) or in Accident and Emergency departments or a Walk-in Centre providing services similar to those of a hospital Accident and Emergency department is free of charge.

In the case of treatment given in an Accident and Emergency department or Walk-in Centre the exemption from charges will cease to apply once the patient is formally admitted as an in-patient (this will include emergency operations and admittance to High Dependency Units) or registered at an outpatient clinic.

If I should need hospital treatment what documents will I need?

The Regulations place a responsibility on individual hospitals to determine whether, in accordance with the Regulations, a patient is liable to be charged for treatment or not. In order to establish entitlement, hospitals can ask you to provide documentation that supports your claim that you live outside the UK for 3 months or more but intend to return. It is for you to decide what to supply, however examples of evidence could include:

• Proof that you are in receipt of UK state pension, not a private or occupational pension

• - a pension slip or pink card BR 464 issued by DWP or

• letter from DWP or appropriate Northern Irish authority;

Evidence to support period spent living in UK – eg bank details showing withdrawals in EEA and UK, details of travel documents;

So, in the end I answered my own question.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[Artisan]

This is the first time I have heard anyone link NI contributions to the subject of whether or not I would qualify for free medical care. I thought the NI contributions only applied to state pension entitlement.

Hi Mobi......You are correct. The UK National Health Service is funded solely from general taxation and NOT National Insurance Contributions. As you have said, NI contributions contribute only to social security benefits, including the UK State Pension.

To add to the statements about the freezing of UK state pensions in some countries...sorry, most countries. This issue has been presented to the European Court of Human Rights before, moving to there on an appeal by a British woman living in South Africa. The appeal process was even funded by the Canadian Government. The appeal failed. Statements from the British Government afterwards, justifying the decision, made it clear that it would cost the UK about an extra £400 million per annum to support the annual incremental increases to the state pensions of British citizens living in those countries.

If the campaign is being resurrected then, naturally, I wish it success.

[Nevo]

Having worked in the past for the health service for many years as an auditor and treasury accountant I can tell you the following facts as they are - regardless of laws and regulations.

It is up to the individual NHS unit to determine your status as to your rights to free treatment. No unit will question a refferal of a British Citizen from a GP.

So:-

Before you leave (as I did) have a word with your GP and ask if he/she will keep you on their lists. Then every time you go to the UK make an appointment to have a check up (blood pressure etc)

Or

Register with a GP as a temporary resident when you get to the UK with your ailments. They can't or most likely won't refuse.

Your GP will then refer you to a specialist etc...

WHY - because you can't register with a GP without a medical health card (remember it's the one that folds in two with a NHS health number on it - this proves you are infact a British Citizen)

Hope these facts help you.

[loong]

Nevo,

Do GP practices get funding according to the number of patients on their list or when a registered person attends the clinic.

If you leave the UK and are registered with a GP, will they drop you from their list if you do not attend for a certain period of time?

As far as I know, I am still registered with the GP practice as I have never deregistered.

Thanks

Edited March 4, 2007 by loong

[tonyevans]

This is the first time I have heard anyone link NI contributions to the subject of whether or not I would qualify for free medical care. I thought the NI contributions only applied to state pension entitlement.

Hi Mobi......You are correct. The UK National Health Service is funded solely from general taxation and NOT National Insurance Contributions. As you have said, NI contributions contribute only to social security benefits, including the UK State Pension.

To add to the statements about the freezing of UK state pensions in some countries...sorry, most countries. This issue has been presented to the European Court of Human Rights before, moving to there on an appeal by a British woman living in South Africa. The appeal process was even funded by the Canadian Government. The appeal failed. Statements from the British Government afterwards, justifying the decision, made it clear that it would cost the UK about an extra £400 million per annum to support the annual incremental increases to the state pensions of British citizens living in those countries.

If the campaign is being resurrected then, naturally, I wish it success.

The case against the British Government is currently at the European Court of Human Rights.

The request of the European Court for the British Government to seek a "Friendly" decision was rejected by the British Government. This is what you may have seen as a failed appeal.

The "friendly" decision simply meant that the decision would be made based on written evidence/arguments submitted by the two sides. It is thought that the British Government rejected this out of court settlement request as they wished to have an oral hearing. This involves considerably greater cost for the Associations and possibly the Government is trying to made it as expensive as possible to fight the case. However the case continues although it will be later this year before is decision is made.

Tony

[Artisan]

The case against the British Government is currently at the European Court of Human Rights.

The request of the European Court for the British Government to seek a "Friendly" decision was rejected by the British Government. This is what you may have seen as a failed appeal.

The "friendly" decision simply meant that the decision would be made based on written evidence/arguments submitted by the two sides. It is thought that the British Government rejected this out of court settlement request as they wished to have an oral hearing. This involves considerably greater cost for the Associations and possibly the Government is trying to made it as expensive as possible to fight the case. However the case continues although it will be later this year before is decision is made.

Tony

Yes Tony, after reading my information again, the failed appeal that I referred to was indeed the one presented to the British Government. I am not Canadian but I have read the following extract on the Canadian Alliance for British Pensioners website:

Ottawa, ON – November 24, 2005: BC resident Bernard Jackson today filed an anti-discrimination lawsuit against the UK Government with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). Jackson, WWII veteran and vice chair of the Canadian Alliance of British Pensioners (CABP), is heading an international group of a dozen other applicants named in the lawsuit. They are seeking cost-of-living indexation of British state pensions for the 50% of expatriate pensioners who are selected for exclusion from such annual upgrades.

The lead applicants reside in Canada, Australia and South Africa, which are among the hardest hit of the countries the UK has singled out for pension freezing. With the exception of Mr. Jackson, their identities will remain confidential, in deference to the frailty and advanced age of some. There are 520,000 frozen pensioners around the world, some 150,000 of them in Canada, 240,000 in Australia and 38,000 in South Africa.

In May 2005, Britain’s Law Lords rejected the Carson Case in a majority decision, clearing the way for the pension issue to proceed to the ECHR.

The lawsuit is being managed by CABP, with the support of the British Pensioners Association of Western Canada, British Pensions in Australia, and the South African Alliance of British Pensioners. The Canadian law firm McCarthy Tétrault is providing pro bono legal services and UK human rights barristers Timothy Otty and Ben Olbourne, of 20 Essex Street Barristers, have been retained to represent the plaintiffs at the ECHR.

It is most unlikely that the ECHR will be bound by the same Political Agenda as the UK Courts. Therefore there is a fair chance that wisdom may, but only may, prevail in Strasbourg.

THIS PROCESS COULD TAKE 2 or 3 YEARS.

[Nevo]

Artisan,

Yes they do get paid for the number of patients on their lists now. Your old GP can't drop from his list without notifying you of this first in writing. You will still be registered. Make an appointment next time you're in the UK.

[astral]

Artisan,

Yes they do get paid for the number of patients on their lists now. Your old GP can't drop from his list without notifying you of this first in writing. You will still be registered. Make an appointment next time you're in the UK.

Even after 22 years?????????

[Neeranam]

3. If it looks like you may need extensive hospital treatment back in the UK, your best bet is to return to the UK, declare your intention to stay there permanently, and register with a GP. There is nothing to stop you subsequently changing your mind and leaving again, if and when you are well enough to do so.

Thats the way to do it.

QUOTE(Nevo @ 2007-03-04 11:54:27)

Artisan,

Yes they do get paid for the number of patients on their lists now. Your old GP can't drop from his list without notifying you of this first in writing. You will still be registered. Make an appointment next time you're in the UK.

Even after 22 years?????????

I went to my GP after many years away. She hardly recognised me. I used to be in there hassling her every other week. I was still on the books. I also asked to see my medical records for some self-examination I am doing, which was no problem and very interesting, but that's another story.

My mate went back to UK after 17 years here. He got free medical treatment immediately, got a flat and 200 quid a week for being sick. Maybe now he could keep the flat and the money and come back here, but he wouldnt as it is dishonest.

Who would want to screw the british government?

[glenbat]

Thats total bullshit for a number of reasons.......

The ammount of people CLAIMING unemployment benefit has gone down to around the million mark and has been for some time.

I just wonder where all this money is going to, to be honest

Penkoprod

so theres fewer claiming unemployment benefits than a few years ago. New Labour are we?

you ask where all this money is going? Millions being spent EVERY DAY on so called asylum seekers (I use that phrase very lightly, the vast majority actually being economic migrants). Housing, legal expenses to fight their 'human rights', NHS treatment of long term illness (not to mention the huge increase in HIV/Hep B being bought in from sub-Saharan Africa), rebuilding fire gutted asylum processing centres the list goes on and on.

Before i'm gunned down for claiming most 'asylum seekers' are here for the money, if they are genuinely fleeing persecution in their own countries why are they predominantly fit, healthy able bodied males between the ages of 18 (sorry the last few shootings in London have been by 16 year old migrants) and 40?

[qwertz]

Thats total bullshit for a number of reasons.......

The ammount of people CLAIMING unemployment benefit has gone down to around the million mark and has been for some time.

I just wonder where all this money is going to, to be honest

Penkoprod

so theres fewer claiming unemployment benefits than a few years ago. New Labour are we?

you ask where all this money is going? Millions being spent EVERY DAY on so called asylum seekers (I use that phrase very lightly, the vast majority actually being economic migrants). Housing, legal expenses to fight their 'human rights', NHS treatment of long term illness (not to mention the huge increase in HIV/Hep B being bought in from sub-Saharan Africa), rebuilding fire gutted asylum processing centres the list goes on and on.

Before i'm gunned down for claiming most 'asylum seekers' are here for the money, if they are genuinely fleeing persecution in their own countries why are they predominantly fit, healthy able bodied males between the ages of 18 (sorry the last few shootings in London have been by 16 year old migrants) and 40?

It's Britain's way of salving its post colonial bad conscience. But don't overlook the fact that it's a growth industry which is keeping untold hundreds of thousands of its citizens in employment. Think what a state the UK would be in if they sent all immigrants away tomorrow. They'd have masses of unemployable " social workers" and other hangers on and no recourse to the Euro fund..

[scotsman]

Its funny how some government departments have different rules for being an ordinary resident. When I got a questionnaire from the tax office on paying national insurance to see if i was non- resident or a ordinary resident. The questions for being a ordinary resident they asked if you pay tax in the uk answer yes so i am an ordinary resident second question have a uk address answer yes you are a ordinary resident. They did not ask if me i live there. So with my answers to there questions I put down on my form that I was a ordinary resident and that is what i am with there rules. I can get my health treatment free as with there rules from the tax office I am a ordinary resident. Its very confusing when you have more that 1 set of rules. I still have a doctor in the uk and i still have a uk address & I still pay income tax on my pension to pay for my right to have free health treatment. As I said in my other post i dont think any hospital will refuse you treatment for free if your doctor has sent you. I agree with mobi that you can get round this stupid unjust law.

[toadstool]

Only had recourse to request minor NHS treatment in my 22 years as an expat. On both occasions I was honest with them and offered to go "private" but got it free.

Paid NI all these years and hopefully will not be required to pay any more in April when the Bill is passed.

As for my Thai wife of 15 years she is entiltled to nothing when we visit the UK whilst economic migrants or illegals what ever you want to call the freeloaders are welcomed with open arms and are given cars, accomodation, etc, etc. You should go to Boston Lincs, its more like Eastern Europe these days.

One other thing. I went to registor to vote in the last election and I was told that I am no longer eligiable because I have been out of the UK for more than 15 years.

However with all the stories of dirty hospitals and MRSA due to lack of attention by the present government would you really want to go?