Thai attitudes to very poor people

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm willing to bet that he won't turn up at my house asking for money.  He was just genuinely excited and happy to be given a free samlor.  And I did my best to make it very clear that I had another samlor, and so didn't want the old one that needs to be started every couple of days.

 

He may well sell it for the money, but it doesn't matter.

ok - i get it now - he was happy to get the samlor, you think, and then you wanted other people to help him with mechanical issues and they were either not wanting to or not capable of helping, and by that, you conclude that NO Thai people are helpful or generous... ??? 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

ok - i get it now - he was happy to get the samlor, you think, and then you wanted other people to help him with mechanical issues and they were either not wanting to or not capable of helping, and by that, you conclude that NO Thai people are helpful or generous... ??? 

I give up (again) as I've already pointed out that I've received lots of help from Thais.

 

My post was directed at the attitude of Thais towards the obviously 'down and out' Thais.

[donim]

21 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

ok - i get it now - he was happy to get the samlor, you think, and then you wanted other people to help him with mechanical issues and they were either not wanting to or not capable of helping, and by that, you conclude that NO Thai people are helpful or generous... ??? 

The comb was used in the wrong manner.

 

In my eyes the OP didn't wrong, but good deed and miswrote by generalizing  sub species under the parents class, just by lack find other good description on that time.

This, can has reasons, no need to fight or repeatly apologize.

It happened to the OP. And have been with me, and don't say it never happened to you.

 

 

Just hold the comb the right way.

[dick dasterdly]

FWIW - I've just heard from a friend (who would recognise my old samlor) that he saw the guy to who it was given.

 

Apparently the side car was full of tin cans/plastic etc.

 

So hopefully I was able to help him in a small way ????.

[1FinickyOne]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

FWIW - I've just heard from a friend (who would recognise my old samlor) that he saw the guy to who it was given.

 

Apparently the side car was full of tin cans/plastic etc.

 

So hopefully I was able to help him in a small way ????.

Well, that's nice - - glad to hear something positive... sorry if I was too sensitive but I am just tired of the "all Thai" generalizations followed by a bash... I have noted in my village and nearby city that people are not only kind but generous in helping the least fortunate... I am glad he found a good use for the samlor. 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, donim said:

The comb was used in the wrong manner.

 

In my eyes the OP didn't wrong, but good deed and miswrote by generalizing  sub species under the parents class, just by lack find other good description on that time.

This, can has reasons, no need to fight or repeatly apologize.

It happened to the OP. And have been with me, and don't say it never happened to you.

 

 

Just hold the comb the right way.

Seems to be so... but when you write or speak, words matter and they actually have consequences. I have known a couple of people who were hoping to retire here and they would have loved it, but became disillusioned from all the negativity on this forum and did not want to be near such miserable complaining people. They changed their mind and did not come here. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, kenk24 said:

Well, that's nice - - glad to hear something positive... sorry if I was too sensitive but I am just tired of the "all Thai" generalizations followed by a bash... I have noted in my village and nearby city that people are not only kind but generous in helping the-d least fortunate... I am glad he found a good use for the samlor. 

I've never been the type to post generalisations, followed by a bash - as most Thais have gone out of their way to help me when I was in trouble.

 

I was just shocked at their reaction to an extremely poor (destitute?) guy, as they've nearly always been so good to me!

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've never been the type to post generalisations, followed by a bash - as most Thais have gone out of their way to help me when I was in trouble.

 

I was just shocked at their reaction to an extremely poor (destitute?) guy, as they've nearly always been so good to me!

Is it possible that they had no idea how to help fix the thing... I am generous but have no mechanical aptitude. If you are giving a gift, then asking others to help the recipient, you are giving them a job they might not want to do or be capable of... and then they are put in a position of having to say "No." [not polite] or admit they are not capable [not fun] - neither of which is comfortable for them... it doesn't sound to me as if they were being cruel or not generous, just not knowing how to react in an uncomfortable situation... 

 

I have spent near 20 years living in a Thai village -your generosity will be noted and appreciated but likely nobody will ever verbalize it... 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, kenk24 said:

Is it possible that they had no idea how to help fix the thing... I am generous but have no mechanical aptitude. If you are giving a gift, then asking others to help the recipient, you are giving them a job they might not want to do or be capable of... and then they are put in a position of having to say "No." [not polite] or admit they are not capable [not fun] - neither of which is comfortable for them... it doesn't sound to me as if they were being cruel or not generous, just not knowing how to react in an uncomfortable situation... 

 

I have spent near 20 years living in a Thai village -your generosity will be noted and appreciated but likely nobody will ever verbalize it... 

As I said previously, they rushed to help when I had problems starting the samlor....

 

They also rushed over when a friend had problems starting his car.....

 

I'm not trying to be dramatic about this, but the change of attitude was clear to see ☹️.

[1FinickyOne]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

As I said previously, they rushed to help when I had problems starting the samlor....

 

They also rushed over when a friend had problems starting his car.....

 

I'm not trying to be dramatic about this, but the change of attitude was clear to see ☹️.

Maybe they hate the guy - - I doubt it had to do with his poverty... I have a cousin who is a drunk and when he is totally loaded, he comes around, staggering, which riles the dogs and then he throws rocks at my dogs... when he comes around, the family goes inside and hides. Even when he is sober, it is unpleasant as the dogs don't forget. 

 

One day, one of my dogs was blinded in one eye, could have been a battle with a snake - - or a rock. If you were to stop by my house and see me screaming at some poor drunk to get off my property... I might not look so kindly... well, you get the idea. 

 

Ask your wife - - she may know but not want to speak badly... or she might tell you why. There is nearly always more to the story. Good luck. 

 

 

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Paradise Pete said:

If the people you asked were from your own country you would have thought "those people don't want to help the poor." But because they were from a different country you said Thais don't want to help the poor. 

Could that be because we are living in Thailand?

 

But the poster concerned was not living in their own country but in Thailand.

 

IMHO Dick Dasterdly did the right thing.

 

We do something similar for several Thai families that we know.

 

Sometimes they help us out with things that we find physically hard to do but they don't expect us to do it all the time.

[GinBoy2]

On 4/4/2019 at 12:58 AM, marcusarelus said:

Sorry, I read the topic, "Thai attitudes to very poor people" and then your experience.  Seems to suggest a negative attitude of Thai people toward poor people. 

That's a tricky one.

 

Thai society is highly hierarchical, and depending where you are on that scale, but an Isaan farmer can be little more than a soi dog in their view of the world.

 

When an elite can kill a policeman, then try to get his Isaan driver to take the rap, then simply evade justice, that tells you a lot about how the class structure works in Thailand.

The higher up in the structure you are, the less you think, or even care about the poor

[StevieAus]

We live in a town in the North, where there is a guy of very small stature, obviously never fully developed, who walks around selling packs of Yoghurts.

He is always carrying two bags with another on his back.

Admiring him for trying to make a living especially in the heat I asked my wife to ask if he had a trolley to push around would it help.

He seemed very keen and we photographed a few at Makro and he selected one which we purchased.

The only time since I have seen him with the trolley is the day we handed it over never since, he told my wife it is at his home

So to the original poster attempting to help people doesn’t always work out the way you envisage.

[wilcopops]

2 factors to bear in mind are reincarnation and Sakdina.

[Farangwithaplan]

On 4/5/2019 at 1:52 PM, kenk24 said:

Just curious - being kind to other farang or to Thai? Now that I think about it, i do much better with Thai people, not so well with farang... in the area of loans of cash, Thai pay me back and do it cheerfully, farang - I don't see them again and they usually end up angry as if their $$ problems are my fault. 

I've also lent money to a few select locals and have always been paid back. I use the same judgement on these calls as I would for family back home. Some I know I would never see a dime again so I would not lend to them. Others I wouldn't hesitate.

 

The people here who have borrowed from me are friends and their contributions to be getting on, teaching me about life and culture and just being a friend would have more than outweighed and potential loss if the funds were forfeited.

 

Same universal laws apply. Don't lend. If you do, choose wisely who you lend to. Set the rules. If you don't get paid back, you just paid for a lesson to improve your judgement with the cost of the lesson being the total of the outstanding funds.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

I've also lent money to a few select locals and have always been paid back. I use the same judgement on these calls as I would for family back home. Some I know I would never see a dime again so I would not lend to them. Others I wouldn't hesitate.

 

The people here who have borrowed from me are friends and their contributions to be getting on, teaching me about life and culture and just being a friend would have more than outweighed and potential loss if the funds were forfeited.

 

Same universal laws apply. Don't lend. If you do, choose wisely who you lend to. Set the rules. If you don't get paid back, you just paid for a lesson to improve your judgement with the cost of the lesson being the total of the outstanding funds.

 

 

You seem to have given this some thought... last year a family member, an uncle, needed a medical emergency loan... they told me the 300,000 baht would be returned in a week as his family came together and it was... and I knew it would. 

 

Now, what would you do if it is a farang friend.. not your closest friend... and you know they likely would never be able to repay you... but they are facing a life threatening issue. You have the $$ and it is not going to break you in any way, but is not really the way you want to spend your money... Is it a matter of who? and how much? Sure, it could be an awful position to be put in but I know a lot of people who may not have that amt in reserve... or the possibility of getting it elsewhere?? 

 

Any thoughts?

[user343434]

If you look on the markets at the "real" beggars (not these scums with drugged babies) I see actually a lot of people who donate some coins.

That fellow who was always sitting at Sukhumvit road corner Soi Khao Talo in the police hut (a Dutch fellow) has always bags with food handed over by passing by Thais (not Farangs!!)

I see often that KOTO (Keeper of the Oceans) gets donations by Thais to support his mission to help creatures and poor people.

 

Physically help might be more of a problem but when it comes to giving I think that Thais are more gentle than other Countries.. 

[John V]

Re: The op. I had the same problem with my wife and I think it’s the law of Buddhist karma. I feed the stray soi cats and dogs and my wife couldn’t understand why I was wasting money. Finally she told me that I was interfering with the laws of Karma and that these unfortunate animals had been put there for a purpose by Buddha. I told her that Buddha also rewarded acts of kindness and that seemed to put her mind at rest. She now feeds them too and so I think what we see as indifference or even cruelty is often just the Thai mentality based on a philosophy.

[Date Masamune]

Somebody brought me a Otterbox from overseas I opened the package it was for the wrong kind of iPhone. This is like a $40-50 dollar product. No way to return it I tried to give it away to a phone case seller in Patpong market. Very suspicious kept asking why? Finally accepted it . No thanks given.

[Snow Leopard]

Are all societies not the same now the world over? Me first. 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

Quick question: What is a samlor?

[Farangwithaplan]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:02 AM, kenk24 said:

You seem to have given this some thought... last year a family member, an uncle, needed a medical emergency loan... they told me the 300,000 baht would be returned in a week as his family came together and it was... and I knew it would. 

 

Now, what would you do if it is a farang friend.. not your closest friend... and you know they likely would never be able to repay you... but they are facing a life threatening issue. You have the $$ and it is not going to break you in any way, but is not really the way you want to spend your money... Is it a matter of who? and how much? Sure, it could be an awful position to be put in but I know a lot of people who may not have that amt in reserve... or the possibility of getting it elsewhere?? 

 

Any thoughts?

I can only speculate.  I would look at what the person has done in their lifetime for others. How they have chosen to live their life. Have they been a burden or have they tried to make their little space on the world a better place? Was the medical emergency self inflicted acutely, chronically or through no known fault of their own? What could I do better with those funds? I'd also consider if I had someone close to me who would benefit from helping this other person in some way either emotionally or otherwise.

 

Many things would come into play, but I assume if I had that money to just give, I would make more of a snap decision than ponder it whist sitting on a hilltop for a while.

 

What would you do?

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Farangwithaplan
added

[Farangwithaplan]

18 hours ago, MiNombreEsFicticious said:

Quick question: What is a samlor?

It is one of those three wheeled vehicle contraptions people sit in. They are also called rickshaws, trikes or whatever. Can be motorised or peddle powered or pulled.

 

Samlor might also refer to "3, eh?" ????

 

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

13 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

It is one of those three wheeled vehicle contraptions people sit in. They are also called rickshaws, trikes or whatever. Can be motorised or peddle powered or pulled.

 

Samlor might also refer to "3, eh?" ????

 

I think you're right about the 3 and "sam". Thank you very much, so now I know. 

[plachon]

On 4/4/2019 at 8:30 AM, Sheryl said:

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

Well said Sheryl. For Dick Dastardly, did the "poor old guy" even want a samlor foisted on him (perhaps he couldn't even ride a bike!) or was he in a fit state to run a small business, with the risks that come with it? And as for Kenny, he chose to "help" the "poor" lady and then complains when she shows some business acumen and sells some vegetables to his wife (perhaps the woman's only source of income) for a princely 10 baht (perhaps she was thanking his wife by giving her a discount on the normal price). Perhaps he wanted the lady, who took the trouble to come round and no doubt thank them in her own way, to throw herself down on the floor and become a slave to the big white bwana's family for the rest of her life! Tsk....There's no pleasing some people I guess. ????

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

i once wanted to donate a big quantity of new toys, worth 1500 USD, to

a thai charity. i called them and told them all they have to do is come pick

it up. one lade told me she will come this afternoon, on "her way back".

she did not come. 

i called again and she said she "forgot". i told her she is a waste of time and

she told me i am "not good man".

few days later i saw few students collecting donations for some nobel cause. 

i told them i can give them all those toys, and they can do whatever they want with 

them. i told them they can even sell it for their profit. 

they said they will come "this afternoon". 

i said i will wait until six o'clock, and if they are not coming today they 

can forget about it. 

they never came.

[mike787]

If life was not meant to be different, God or whatever "maker" that designed this place would have made it different.  It is what it is.  

[Puwa]

On 4/5/2019 at 5:58 AM, dick dasterdly said:

FWIW - I've just heard from a friend (who would recognise my old samlor) that he saw the guy to who it was given.

 

Apparently the side car was full of tin cans/plastic etc.

 

So hopefully I was able to help him in a small way ????.

FYI, usually a three-wheeler with sidecar-- in other words, a motorcycle with a contraption bolted to one side for carrying stuff--is not known as a samlor but a "rot saleng."