US lawyers in Bangkok: Big Joke transfer won't change immigration policy for retirees one bit

[Thomasbangkok]

Enjoyed living in Thailand for 10 years plus and now moving on.  Have the retirement funds but the whole attitude now toward foreigners just takes away from the land of smiles I knew.  Time for Lao or Vietnam.  Perhaps the Philippines as they seem to welcome Americans.  Have money on at Siam Commercial and K Bank to cover more than enough but it is just someone telling me they want to control my money and I can not move it around.  The bank told me they are now making new certifications for the Government to show the minimum of 25,000 USD on the bank for more than 60 days and the income letter.  Since I own my own real estate business had to pay under the table to grant the income even though it comes to me from my own business.  Enough is enough.  I like reasonable people and the Thai approach is not friendly anymore.  Making move within the next 3 to 6 months.  Just had enough.  The next thing they will telling us is those funds have to be invested in a Thai investment fund or the Thai SET.  As this attitude in Thailand continues, foreign investors will shy away.  For me, I am taking my funds out and hopefully I have no problem as I showed all the details from the trust when I brought them in.  The Bank seemed concerned when I said perhaps it is time for me to change.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Thomasbangkok
Informational

[kiwikeith]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 9:28 AM, gk10002000 said:

Logic does not apply to anything over there.  One immigration official says one thing, others do another thing.  One person's policy varies from administration to administration, from coup to coup.

Is there a possible motive to do with the new government?.

The only change we won't see is the status quo prevailing.

Imm agents are still alive and well.

[luckyluke]

15 hours ago, jesimps said:

The Danes must get a good state pension.

Most of we Belgians too.

And as far as I know same for the Austrians, Dutch, French, Germans. 

In Belgium all pensions are paid by one office, which make it easy. 

Different countries, different rules. 

In this particular case easy for us to get a L.o.I and easy to check by Embassy/Consulate. 

I hope therefore T.I. keep the use of a L.o.I., as proof of income. 

I personally used it 15+ years. 

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Who told you this BS? no one is denied if he shows 800k in his account.

 

You distorted my post.

If you had read it in context you would know that I said NO SUCH THING.

I was referring to income method using monthly transfers of 65K.

That's not the 800K method.

 

I was replying to THIS post below.

I was NOT replying to anything about the 800K method.

 

Quote

The income option was available before the recent changes. 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[JustAnotherHun]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 

You distorted my post.

If you had read it in context you would know that I said NO SUCH THING.

I was referring to income method using monthly transfers of 65K.

That's not the 800K method.

 

I was replying to THIS post below.

I was NOT replying to anything about the 800K method.

 

 

I see now. Sorry, my fault.

 

[JustAnotherHun]

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Most of we Belgians too.

And as far as I know same for the Austrians, Dutch, French, Germans. 

Not the Germans even if it is easy for them to get the pension proof from their embassy. But the pensions are quite low there and who is depending on them has a hard time here since the massive decline of the Euro.

 

Average pension in Germany is about 1.200 € and imho many if not most of the German retirees living in Thailand don't have the requestet 65k THB (+1.850€). They live (partly) on their savings and without the mixed or 800k method there would be a huge exodus.

 

The problem for them and most other westerners is not Thailands 65k/month rule (as this exists unchanged for many years now) but the sharp decline of the Euro, GBP and USD.

With an exchange rate of 35 THB/Euro and the much higher inflation in Thailand compared to Europe, the living costs here are not much lower than in European countries anymore. And the gap is further closing.

Hard times to come for not so well-off people and their dreams of retirement in the sun.

[Jingthing]

That's the thing. So many of our pensions are under 65K per month. Yes, there is (or was) the combination method. But with the new massively confusing rules for the combo method (and it overlaps now with the super onerous rules on money seasoning for the 800K bank method) especially for those without embassy letters (but even for those with them) the reliability of being able to comply with the combo method rules is under very serious doubt.

To wit -- reports from Jomtien, one the biggest retirement offices, not accepting combination method applications anymore AT ALL. 

People saying the changes are trivial and the only people that are being pushed out don't have the money to live here are TOTALLY wrong. 

We've been jerked around big time, and most of us that have been thusly jerked around, DO have the money to live in Thailand.

Again having the money to live in Thailand, and meeting the rules, especially now with the botched up combo method are totally DIFFERENT things. 

[elliss]

On 4/8/2019 at 6:44 AM, Destiny1990 said:

Why was he de-promoted ?

 

 

              New  Goverment ,  new favourites , new faces .

[CMNightRider]

14 hours ago, garyk said:

They are stopping all notery services everywhere. Personally I think it is to reign in retirees (baby boomers) from retiring overseas. It will stop 75% or more from the states from going to Thailand IMO. With Thailands retirement rules, it is a dead end for most retiree's. So mission accomplished. 

There is a small percentage of "baby boomers" from the states who retire in Thailand.  After Thai Immigrations latest 800,000 baht deposit in a Thai bank to qualify for a retirement visa, the percentage will drop even more.

 

Most of the retirees from the states, who want to live in a foreign country move to places like Panama, Mexico, and most recently Columbia.  

 

The more seasoned traveler's when they retire go to inexpensive destinations in Europe.  You won't see anymore articles about retiring in Thailand.  Most westerners will avoid this place like the plague.

 

[bangkoken]

The reality is that this attorney does not now anything that may or may not change in the coming months relative to long stay visa requirements for foreigners. He guessing and that's all he's doing.

[Thaidream]

The issue itself is not the money 65K or 800K in a bank but how the rules are being interpreted; the locking up of significant funds  for a lengthy time; the inability of offices to explain the Combo method and the general chaos that exists.

 

As many have mentioned- there are various reasons why Thailand is no longer a prime  area for retirement.

 

-Declining exchange rates  for Us Dollar; Euro and Pound

-Increase in prices and a large tax on all imported goods as well as spirits

-Poor Air Quality and some unhealthy locations

-Rising medical costs with no attempt to allow foreigners to  buy into the Thai Social security System

-Beaches that are dirty; rancid water and low quality

-Traffic conditions that are unbearable

-A police force that is unresponsive

 

I generally find the Thai people  friendly and not hostile to foreigners but let's not forget that all the things we  find as irritants in Thailand- the local population  has the same issues but in a different context.  Most locals don't make  enough money and are  simply surviving.  When they need a 'loan'- they can only get it from money lenders who charge at a minim 5% per month.  Their children get up at 5AM to get to a 'school' and try to get an education  and return when it's dark. It's no wonder drug use and alcoholism is high and it's hard to smile when struggling but most Thais do the best they can and I commend them on their ability to maintain their composure.

 

The recent actions by the Immigration Department have turned off law abiding expats in Thailand as well as those who would have retired in Thailand.  Using slogans which are basically racist and parading foreigners in front of the cameras in huge numbers; even when they are guilty; does not resister  well in the minds of Westerners.  Raiding Condos; hotels; and  nightlife venues  and forcing people to take urine tests and show documentation without any probable cause- most of whom are legal- smacks of  a police state mentality.

 

None of this is the Thailand of 50 years ago when I first came or even 10 years ago.  Every country has a right to protect their citizens and borders but constantly castigating foreigners as potential criminals; developing Immigration rules that  are unintelligible and not consistent  is not the way to  move Thailand into the next Singapore.  

 

Reliance on mass tourism without controls destroys  the things that most of us came here to see and experience- the exotic nature of the country; great food; shopping; beautiful and affordable resorts and beaches as well as the live and let live attitude of the Thai people. Keep destroying everything  that made Thailand great will end in no one wanting to come; no one wanting to retire here; no one wanting to invest here and eventually moving Thailand backward.

 

 

 

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[wildewillie89]

14 hours ago, EricTh said:

Demoted.

 

Probably due to political reason, he didn't support the military party.

 

There is an intense  power struggle between the military party and the Taksin parties right now.

He is the right hand man of Prawit. 

Edit: that was a Thai social media rumor going around. That he liked a certain page supporting an investigation into the election. They just drew a conclusion as his social media pages were closed down.

It is political, but much more complex than that. Past caught up with him. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by wildewillie89

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

He is the right hand man of Prawit. 

Edit: that was a Thai social media rumor going around. That he liked a certain page supporting an investigation into the election. They just drew a conclusion as his social media pages were closed down.

It is political, but much more complex than that. Past caught up with him. 

You mean Prawit Wongsuwan? Prawit is ethnic Chinese of Thai citizenship.

 

Clicking a 'like' is considered illegal? LOL

[wildewillie89]

50 minutes ago, EricTh said:

You mean Prawit Wongsuwan? Prawit is ethnic Chinese of Thai citizenship.

 

Clicking a 'like' is considered illegal? LOL

It is widely reported how close they are. It has been mentioned in every article so far re BJ and his transfer - don't need some special source to know that.

The 'like' was just the Thai social media rumor/reasoning behind the papers being signed. It isn't the actual reason. 

I am sure people can read between the lines of what is happening right now and why he had to go even though he is the Assistant PMs best mate. That will give the general reason, just will not divulge the back story of how that reason came about to begin with.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by wildewillie89

[granuaile]

Whatever happens with this situation, I don't think it'll change anything here. As I remember the embassies that stopped income affidavits did so before he was head of immigration, so no reason to think much will change, it's not likely the embassy will go back to providing that, or that Thai immigration will accept income documents from pension plan systems or Social Security. I don't know but I have no reason to think the lawyer's comments are not completely on the mark. I won't be surprised if Big Joke isn't promoted for that matter, though I think what is going on is anyone's guess.

Me, I already have my ticket home purchased. I had already decided to go home for the foreseeable future, but the changes that came with the U.S. embassy stopping income affidavits sealed that choice. I may come back in the future, if they start accepting documentation from my retirement plan and social security, but not soon. My plans are home, Ireland in the Fall and in the Spring, maybe Scotland along the way. I never burned my bridges or got rid of my possessions in the U.S. so I'm pretty lucky, except for having to start paying taxes on my Social Security, at least for this year. I could stay till early next year, but in a couple of months works best for me...

I hope Thailand will change it's rules. It would be nice if they provided 90-day visa-free entry like Malaysia or options like Cambodia for a yearly visa. But I don't think either will happen. Thailand is a great place to live, the people are great, at least that's been my experience, from the street food vendors to my landlord to the policeman who patrols this area. I'd be lying if I said I won't miss Thailand, I will, and I'll miss my friends here. But back home I have my kid, free tuition and no fees at state universities, colleges or vocational schools, and our dog. ???? I'll definitely keep my eye on Thailand's rules and be back for visits, at least.