Who really suffers

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, saminoz said:

It's a frikkin joke.

I, like many here, have bought property and have a pension salted away abroad.

I know that the properties are in my wife's name, no issue with that at all (and don't bother but there is clear evidence of me having transferred money here to buy these propertirs and the subsequent payments for the related purchases.

It is simply laziness, a lack of intelligence or xenophobia (maybe all three) to not be able or willing to take any of that into account as your financial wellbeing and commitment to living in this country!

I get an annual statement as to the value of my pension fund, properly audited and accompanied by the results of the investments out of that fund. Why on eath can't that be used?  All the proceeds of my oension and my continuing employment are basically spent mostly in Thailand supporting my family and "enjoying" the privilege of being a retiree here (although I am currently working out of country, as you do).

These idiots are just so small minded, lazy and plain frikkin dumb.

Sounds like you are taking out your lack of funds on the Immigration folk.  Why would they listen to your ideas of what retirement in Thailand should cost?  It would be like immigrants telling the country to let them in with no papers and a jail record.  I think the country you want to live in has the right to set the rules.  

[malibukid]

On 4/8/2019 at 8:55 AM, gk10002000 said:

As far as money and interest, I keep my money fully invested in the USA and in mostly tax free investments or my ROTH IRA.  I hate paperwork, and while the FINRA 10K USD filing stuff is not hard, I hate to file paperwork with the USA if I have $10,000 USD in any overseas account.  And if I had 800k baht or about 24,000 USD on deposit in Thailand that would not only require me to file the 10k document, I would also now have to report any interest earned on that when I do my USA taxes.  Just my preference to hate to do additional paperwork or filing.  And that $24,000 USD can earn me a decent penny in the USA in my tax free investments, easily over $1,000 a year.  The fact I can afford to not earn that is irrelevant.  I got to where I am in life by not throwing away $1,000 silly nilly.  Income method was a nice simple thing and something I could easily proved and document before.  Now with the recent changes, the whole thing is a mess.  I have no desire to setup any sort of automatic transfers, or withdrawals, pay fees, risk account security, overseas issues, etc.  But, it is what it is.  Will see how things shake out in the next year when I do the Thailand thing as I semi retire

same here. no way. the government needs to offer an elite visa for a one year extension.  say $1KUSD up front.  this would make everyone happy.  put it one the credit card like most countries let you do.  boom done in 20 minutes.  this is the 21 century not the 18th.

Edited April 9, 2019 by malibukid

[saminoz]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Sounds like you are taking out your lack of funds on the Immigration folk.  Why would they listen to your ideas of what retirement in Thailand should cost?  It would be like immigrants telling the country to let them in with no papers and a jail record.  I think the country you want to live in has the right to set the rules.  

Trouble reading?

I did not say I have a lack of funds. I have enough funds, some in places that do not help to qualify for this ridiculously narrow minded, badly thought out scheme, that's all.

What is the point of committing this $24k to a Thai bank account when you have plenty of other money committed to this country but they are just too stupid, uneducated or too lazy to count?

I could commit the funds if I wanted to, the point I am making is that there should not be a need to if the ssupposed purpose is to ensure that only "worthy" farangs are allowed to stay and we don't get overrun with a load of dossers.

I respect their right to set the rules for allowing someone to live here, but they ought to be able to see a little bit beyond a simple Thai bank account balance in order to judge someone's financial stability and commitment to this country.

I have maintained my retirement status here for over 10 years now, properly, so I am not necessarily begrudging the need to prove your financial "mettle", just the lack of understanding, vision and empathy that might make the process a little more palatable for sincere, well-intentioned ex-pats.

I sure as hell resent having to keep even 800k idle in a Thai bank just to appease these clowns.

It's all a little bit too simplistic.

[malibukid]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

A good way to lose in the long term.

Wherever you are, banks pay 1-2% interest. They then lend it out at 6-7%.

Let's say you have funds on deposit in Australia, current interest rate 1.5%. As income, it is then taxed say at 30%. Your real rate of return is then 1% pa.

At an annual inflation rate of 3%, your capital is being chewed up at a rate of 2% per year.

In Thailand, we are forced to keep 800,000 baht on deposit. It is what it is.

IMHO anyone who keeps more than living expenses on deposit with a bank is financially illiterate.

btw, i said this last month.  the $$ is getting stronger, and it is. 

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

//snip//

Yes, but we aren't comparing to living in the USA, or Saudi Arabia, or countries of a similar bent. 

 

There are many welcoming destinations with a much better standard-of-living per-dollar spent on offer.  Those are the ones Thailand is in competition with - but they either don't recognize this, or don't care.  Many officials seem to want most of us gone, regardless of the harm done to their own citizens as a result.

//snip///

 

Yes, I know, it wasn't intended as a cost of living comparison.  Rather, a nod to living here, for many, is, among other reasons, a cost avoidance measure. 

 

Money in the Bank's new 400k no-spend-rule is essentially a bonded amount which you still "own" vs. putting it in government tax coffers or revenue for various insurance companies "back home".  That capital is gone forever.  I use the 800k in the bank method here and while I cringe at the 400k "bond", the consolation is that capital is still mine.  That's the point I was trying to make relative to leaving money for survivors when you die here. 

 

Edit: No argument that schemes in other countries are different/better/worse in comparison.  Anyone who wants to shop around is welcome to it. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by 55Jay

[malibukid]

19 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Matter of perspective as well.  There are some farangs here who don't consider 800k as being a lot of money. 

they are foolish.  smart people do not throw money away.  my mother would drive her Rolls to Costco.  rich people are frugal.  i learned this from her.

Edited April 9, 2019 by malibukid

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, malibukid said:

they are foolish.  smart people do not throw money away.  my mother would drive her Rolls to Costco.  rich people are frugal.  i learned this from her.

Putting $25 in the bank to save $200,000 on housing is frugal. 

[malibukid]

19 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

I agree. 

 

That's why the 800k / 400k untouched is such a lousy deal.

 

Now, if the "visa agents" are allowed to keep operating, despite the new laws, "Who really suffers" with be those using the 800k / 400k method, who will be roughly paying 4000 baht more, for the same product. (visa)

 

Not to mention, they basically can not use 400k of their own money, forever.

 

Then, there is the stress of seasoning, paperwork, bank letters, fronting immigration etc etc. 

 

As you rightly point out, the 800k method runs at a financial loss for the expat, and sure does make for an expensive visa.  

 

 

i would like to see a year Elite Visa for one thousand U.S. not 5 year. 

[55Jay]

Just now, malibukid said:

they are foolish.  smart people do not throw money away.  my mother would drive her Rolls to Costco.  rich people are frugal.  i learn from her.

Agreed.  I live below my means, only spend 1/2 of available passive income, and keep the rest reinvesting.  But I don't quibble about the 800k or the new, highly annoying 400k rule.  In the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't make that much of a difference in my portfolio.  It's my immigration show money and the aw shit emergency/contingency fund. 

[malibukid]

18 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Never been to Cambodia or Vietnam.  No desire to ever go or live there either. 

 

I never said Thailand was a good deal.

 

You have options.  Exercise your prerogative. 

really never been to both countries and yet you are so opinionated. 

[55Jay]

Just now, malibukid said:

really never been to both countries and yet you are so opinionated. 

What opinion?

[malibukid]

24 minutes ago, saminoz said:

Trouble reading?

I did not say I have a lack of funds. I have enough funds, some in places that do not help to qualify for this ridiculously narrow minded, badly thought out scheme, that's all.

What is the point of committing this $24k to a Thai bank account when you have plenty of other money committed to this country but they are just too stupid, uneducated or too lazy to count?

I could commit the funds if I wanted to, the point I am making is that there should not be a need to if the ssupposed purpose is to ensure that only "worthy" farangs are allowed to stay and we don't get overrun with a load of dossers.

I respect their right to set the rules for allowing someone to live here, but they ought to be able to see a little bit beyond a simple Thai bank account balance in order to judge someone's financial stability and commitment to this country.

I have maintained my retirement status here for over 10 years now, properly, so I am not necessarily begrudging the need to prove your financial "mettle", just the lack of understanding, vision and empathy that might make the process a little more palatable for sincere, well-intentioned ex-pats.

I sure as hell resent having to keep even 800k idle in a Thai bank just to appease these clowns.

It's all a little bit too simplistic.

most Thai people just have their teeth pulled, so i am told.

[fforest1]

45 minutes ago, oldrunner said:

As a retired Air Force Captain, my monthly retirement is adequate to meet the monthly income rule.

For now at least..

[Jim7777]

I know it’s just endless suffering for those of us who are RETIRED. ????????????????????????????

 

Being retired is so tough man I’m thinking about going back to work, NOT. ????????????????????????????

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jim7777

[malibukid]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'll take your word for it on the subject of female company in Vietnam.

As far as paying 20K to an agent goes, I suspect that is illegal, and the other shoe may drop at any time.

i think a lot of expats here are willing to jump through all these new hoops for a little P#####.  it's the "message from below", as DEVO once so succinctly  put it.

[malibukid]

16 hours ago, Thailand Outcast said:

 

See Post 117 on this thread.

 

A poster from Australia asked the same question for his AUD. 

 

In a 20 second Google I found several options for him, all between 6% and 8% return, balanced, and non aggressive.  

 

Compare this to being forced to put 800k in a Thai bank at 1.5%, 400k of which you can never use, and you can see they are taking the p*ss. 

 

 

the USD is coming back.

[Jim7777]

7 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

For now at least..

Uhh yeah he’ll be fine if he’s a retired officer he might make more than I do per month.  But I don’t know I’m 21 years retired and a 100% Disabled Veteran which is more than 180K Baht a month for my pension payments.  A little more than $6,000 USD a month.  I’m not sure what he makes and it varies from person to person depending on the rank you retired at, disability, and other variables.  Plus COLA raises and the last two years we received huge COLA raises.  

 

But I know it’s a tough life being retired LMAO ????.  

[fforest1]

In a nutshell....Thailand offers no social benefits to Expats at all.....They give no legal rights to Expats at all...They offer no long term visa security to Expats at all, and no the few PRs issued dont count....The offer no ability to work,and no the few work permits issued dont count....

 

The only thing good they offered a Expat was a easy visa...

 

Well folks with out a easy visa the Thai government is offering Expats a grand total of NOTHING what so ever....

[55Jay]

Just now, fforest1 said:

In a nutshell....Thailand offers no social benefits to Expats at all.....They give no legal rights to Expats at all...They offer no long term visa security to Expats at all, and no the few PRs issued dont count....The offer no ability to work,and no the few work permits issued dont count....

 

The only thing good they offered a Expat was a easy visa...

 

Well folks with out a easy visa the Thai government is offering Expats a grand total of NOTHING what so ever....

I can't imagine why anyone moves here under these conditions, and those who remain here long-term.  They must have other reasons. 

[Sumarianson]

I begrudge leaving 800,000 with banksters. They make a packet ftom exchange rates and fees already. 

A rediculous rule made by a greedy government. They do not even respect that you have children that are Thai or have a Thai wife or partner. Why, if you have a Thai family can't you work to provide for them and not have to justify your living in Thailand with yearly extensions (when this is your home)

And 90 day reports like some kind of ASBO. It is demeaning and wrong that a person who chooses to live here for family reasons is treated so badly. The process of applying for an extension on family basis should be the simplist, but it is not. It is repedative and absolutely unnessary. Retirement extensions should be for 5 years and only report to immigration a change of address if you do so. Which could be done online easily. The Thai government makes no secret of the fact that they dislike foreigners but only want their money and english teaching capability. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Sumarianson
Spelling correction

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

In a nutshell....Thailand offers no social benefits to Expats at all.....They give no legal rights to Expats at all...They offer no long term visa security to Expats at all, and no the few PRs issued dont count....The offer no ability to work,and no the few work permits issued dont count....

 

The only thing good they offered a Expat was a easy visa...

 

Well folks with out a easy visa the Thai government is offering Expats a grand total of NOTHING what so ever....

I'm afraid you're largely correct.

The easy lured me in. 

There was never any further offer than that.

Now the easy visa is finished and likely heading towards even worse.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Jingthing

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, saminoz said:

It's a frikkin joke.

I, like many here, have bought property and have a pension salted away abroad.

I know that the properties are in my wife's name, no issue with that at all (and don't bother with the "your wife will take it all crap, I don't need you foisting your insecurities on me!), but there is clear evidence of me having transferred money here to buy these properties and the subsequent payments for the related purchases.

It is simply laziness, a lack of intelligence or xenophobia (maybe all three) to not be able or willing to take any of that into account as part of your financial wellbeing and commitment to living in this country!

I get an annual statement as to the value of my pension fund, properly audited and accompanied by the results of the investments out of that fund. Why on earth can't that be used?  All the proceeds of my pension and my continuing employment are basically spent mostly in Thailand supporting my family and "enjoying" the privilege of being a retiree here (although I am currently working out of country, as you do when you get a chance to).

These idiots are just so small minded, lazy and plain frikkin dumb.

Let's forget about the house, because it's in your wife's name. Let's concentrate on money. You claim that because you have brought money into the country in the past, that this should count against your extensions in the present and the future.

If this is the case, someone who has lived here for twenty years should have easier targets to meet than someone who comes for a two week holiday a few times and then decides to retire here.

What if someone who has lived here only five years has brought in twice the amount of foreign currency that someone who has lived here ten years?

I think the above examples show that your suggestion is unworkable and a tad silly. You have pushed it because it is beneficial for you only. Should be filed under Wishful Thinking.

[cryo]

On 4/8/2019 at 2:25 AM, mlkik said:

I keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank for my retirement extension and the interest rate is as good as the rate if I kept it in a UK bank.

Better  if you have instant access.

[Lacessit]

I recently transferred 2000 AUD into a good friend's bank account in Australia. He then transferred it into his Thai bank account to meet the income rules, withdrew it and repaid me in baht.

It occurred to me two friends who trust each other could transfer funds back and forth in overseas accounts, bring the money into Thailand, then pay each other in baht. All quite legal, and satisfying Thai Immigration monthly income regulations.

Which only shows how abjectly stupid the system is.

[yogi100]

I am not an ex pat but visit Pattaya quite often so know several fellows that are ex pats and this 800K / 400K issue is causing them varying degrees of anxiety and dismay after having invested years of their later lives in Thailand and often in relationships with Thai lady friends and wives and occasionally children.

 

It's not uncommon to see middle aged and elderly falangs playing with their half Thai kids around my hotel swimming pool and they look so happy.

 

It's hard not to feel sympathy for their plight and a degree of disgust at the Thai authorities for putting them in such a nasty position.

 

A few blokes I know are not going to stay in the LOS and are going to move to Cambodia, Vietnam or the PI and start a new life there.

 

Some have Thai women who have come to depend upon them financially but unless these women decide to uproot and move with their falangs they are eventually going to have to fend for themselves. Not much fun for any middle aged woman or one who is approaching middle age.

 

Some falangs may commute between their new base and their wives' or girlfriends' home but that won't last when these elderly chaps get fed up with galavanting around SE Asia.

 

If and when said falangs begin new relationships with native women in their new destinations these Thai women and often their families are going to be on Struggle Street. So the spiteful Thai authorities are going to be causing a lot of harm and distress to thousands of their own people. But as they are just poor country folk that will mean nothing to the elite who run the country.

 

Were I an ex pat I would not stand for what may be considered financial and possible emotional blackmail and would either go back to Falangland or deport myself to the PI where I have a couple of friends and probably look at Vietnam or Cambodia.

 

As it is I'm just glad that I never seriously considered settling permanently in the LOS after I retired.

[BertM]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I recently transferred 2000 AUD into a good friend's bank account in Australia. He then transferred it into his Thai bank account to meet the income rules, withdrew it and repaid me in baht.

It occurred to me two friends who trust each other could transfer funds back and forth in overseas accounts, bring the money into Thailand, then pay each other in baht. All quite legal, and satisfying Thai Immigration monthly income regulations.

Which only shows how abjectly stupid the system is.

So, that helped your friend meet his monthly income transfer for 1 month. Are you going to do that every month for him? And, how are you going to meet yours? Are you going to transfer another 2000 AUD into your account to meet yours, then you will have twice what you need here in THB, right? Just asking...

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, murraynz said:

well said---there are too many deadbeats who cry about how miserable their lives are in retirement at thailand...

i dont feel sorry for them, like you, they should have made some sacrifices and learnt how to invest in stocks or realestate etc etc..

i earn most of my retirement income from real estate, but to purchase that-- i spent many many years working 80++ hrs per week, lots of stress...no booze or smokes...or gambling...

its not 'rocket science' or 'luck'---anybody can do it --- just make the effort guys, not excuses..

 

I fear you and BertM are making unwarranted assumptions about my personal circumstances.  I don't need to tell people how much money I have as a form of self-validation.

The reason for my original post is the three financial advisers in Australia I did consult could have cost me serious money if I had followed their advice. As the Royal Commission has shown, many financial advisers in Australia were acting in their own interest or that of financial institutions instead of their clients. Excuse me for not thinking highly of the profession.

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Excuse me for not thinking highly of the profession.

"Profession"? LOL

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, BertM said:

So, that helped your friend meet his monthly income transfer for 1 month. Are you going to do that every month for him? And, how are you going to meet yours? Are you going to transfer another 2000 AUD into your account to meet yours, then you will have twice what you need here in THB, right? Just asking...

It was a one-off, although we may do it again somewhere down the track. I don't need to do the income route, I have the 800,000 on deposit.

As for excess funds in baht, I can always buy gold or exchange for other currencies. I like Swiss francs, they seem to go up every time there are financial tremors.

[Neeranam]

Everyone is entitled to interest.

If you are not getting it, someone in the bank is.