gunderhill Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, OmegaRacer said: One is not better than the other Yes one is better and this is mostly gobbledey gook. Even more vagueness. Unlike religion science is sometimes wrong, its there to be tested, religion is not even though science has on too many occasions proven it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 6 hours ago, OmegaRacer said: They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. We have personified God in our image. And to answer the post above. There is only one way to prove the existence of Spirit, but you have to do it on your own. You can't rely on a book or on a belief system (aka BS). Some people might steer you in the right direction, but it's you who has to make the first step, wrestle with your own shadow, peel the onion layers until you find who you truly are. Once you know that, you'll know what "God" is. I honestly don't understand why so many people are content with "believing" when there are so many ways to "knowing". I guess it's just easier. THis is about as vague as you cna possibly get and brings nothing to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 11 hours ago, mauGR1 said: When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ? Try going to some of those middle eastern countries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Spirituality Total mumbo jumbo, again no such thing has any proof whatsoever, except of course in "belief" and "Faith" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Skeptic7 Posted April 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 18, 2019 The Sciences, through the rigorous process known as The Scientific Method, provide the best explanations of how we, the world and the universe functions based on testable and repeatable results. From that information and those observations, predictions can be made so to further support the case and expand our knowledge and understanding. Many times it doesn't all work and further experimentation is needed until the strict necessary requirements are met. Even when it all works perfectly, science is ALWAYS open to new information and more evidence that could lead to an even more accurate explanations. Unlike religious dogma, which is CLOSED, rigid, hates to be questioned and denies many if the realities of our natural world. Science has answered so many questions and solved so many problems and mysteries. Providing answers, knowledge, cures, understanding and incredible achievements. EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusarelus Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: The Sciences, through the rigorous process known as The Scientific Method, provide the best explanations of how we, the world and the universe functions based on testable and repeatable results. From that information and those observations, predictions can be made so to further support the case and expand our knowledge and understanding. Many times it doesn't all work and further experimentation is needed until the strict necessary requirements are met. Even when it all works perfectly, science is ALWAYS open to new information and more evidence that could lead to an even more accurate explanations. Unlike religious dogma, which is CLOSED, rigid, hates to be questioned and denies many if the realities of our natural world. Science has answered so many questions and solved so many problems and mysteries. Providing answers, knowledge, cures, understanding and incredible achievements. EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. Except in Science class at a Jesuit boys school. I think they called it Apologetics. And if you didn't believe they beat you till you did and when you begged at home to transfer you to a normal public school your parents beat you some more. And they dropped you off at grannies house to recuperate and she prayed over you hoping you would change and telling you stories about no atheists in foxholes. Of course there were millions of atheists in foxholes but granny didn't know any Chinese people. Edited April 19, 2019 by marcusarelus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyself Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: EVERY time...without fail...answers and solutions are natural. The more we've learned, solved, understand and accomplished...NOT once, ever...has the answer been a god. Which is why, over the decades, my attention has turned to why such belief came about, At present I consider it not so much as a symptom of inquisitiveness, rather a side effect of inquisitiveness but I'm open to new knowledge that could change my mind. Our species seeks patterns which we use to consider the future whilst at the same time disliking not having an answer to said patterns. This dislike causes us to insert any answer even if it's a junk answer which is fortified by, or due to, us seeing patterns where none exist. We pride ourselves as something special when in fact we are, as a species, quite gullible, easily led, lazy and fond of praise... even self praise. Pascal, in his pensees, spoke of those who cannot be brought to believe which implies a body of people who can be brought to believe in something without reason. Much of this comes down to a willingness or unwillingness to accept not knowing. A stamp of our lowly origin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5633572526 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, 5633572526 said: More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it That's quite debatable, do you have any numbers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 16 hours ago, gunderhill said: Nothing without evidence yet you want to "believe", in which case with no evidence anything I say should be as valid to you. This means with no evidence you have to accept everything anyone says no matter how crazy. You removed the context from my quote Forum rules 16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thaibeachlovers Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 hours ago, notmyself said: Which is why, over the decades, my attention has turned to why such belief came about, At present I consider it not so much as a symptom of inquisitiveness, rather a side effect of inquisitiveness but I'm open to new knowledge that could change my mind. Our species seeks patterns which we use to consider the future whilst at the same time disliking not having an answer to said patterns. This dislike causes us to insert any answer even if it's a junk answer which is fortified by, or due to, us seeing patterns where none exist. We pride ourselves as something special when in fact we are, as a species, quite gullible, easily led, lazy and fond of praise... even self praise. Pascal, in his pensees, spoke of those who cannot be brought to believe which implies a body of people who can be brought to believe in something without reason. Much of this comes down to a willingness or unwillingness to accept not knowing. A stamp of our lowly origin. Lets face it, original man feared everything and thought if he worshiped the gods of rain, sun, etc etc etc they would save them from a horrible death. Before they worked out that the "gods" never saved them from anything the men in funny hats had made it obligatory to be a "believer" so they could get rich and eat well. Religion and spirituality are completely different beasts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naam Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 14 hours ago, Lacessit said: The extremists in Islam do exactly the same thing, picking the the bits they like. Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran. Creationists and intelligent design IMHO are a pathetic attempt to accommodate evolution while simultaneously trying to shove it under the carpet. "Plenty of bloodthirsty stuff in the Koran", most of it copied from the Bible (Old Testament). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, mauGR1 said: 1 hour ago, 5633572526 said: More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it That's quite debatable, do you have any numbers ? Quote The Thirty Years’ War was a 17th-century religious conflict fought primarily in central Europe. It remains one of the longest and most brutal wars in human history, with more than 8 million casualties resulting from military battles as well as from the famine and disease caused by the conflict. The war lasted from 1618 to 1648, starting as a battle among the Catholic and Protestant states that formed the Holy Roman Empire. https://www.history.com/topics/reformation/thirty-years-war any equivalent number of being saved by religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/15/2019 at 1:30 PM, Kwasaki said: Yeah religions interesting subject so many but as said if some people find comfort " so be it " Amen. I fit in as a sort of agnostic type not an atheist. Remember talking in a congenial way to a Jehovah witness and he said I would burn in Hell, well I said, seeing as I want to be cremated in my demise it don't really matter does it. ???? Rubbish. I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness by my mother - and they don't believe in hell! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 17 hours ago, mauGR1 said: When is the last time someone forced you to accept religion ? When I felt strong enough to stand up for myself at the age of 15 (IIRC). I'd spent the previous few years arguing about having to go to 'meetings' and 'assemblies' - but until then I hadn't felt brave enough to outright refuse..... Sadly, I still have nightmares (even though it's nearly 50 years later.....) about the 'fight' ☹️. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mauGR1 Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said: When I felt strong enough to stand up for myself at the age of 15 (IIRC). I'd spent the previous few years arguing about having to go to 'meetings' and 'assemblies' - but until then I hadn't felt brave enough to outright refuse..... Sadly, I still have nightmares (even though it's nearly 50 years later.....) about the 'fight' ☹️. I have a similar history, like most of the people, around 14 or 15 they take their life "in their hands" so to speak. When travelling to India aged 19, after some Hindu monk told me that Jesus is incarnation of Rama, i realised the difference between 'spirituality' and 'organised religion'. I embrace the former, but i have mixed feelings about the latter. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dick dasterdly Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, OmegaRacer said: They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. We have personified God in our image. And to answer the post above. There is only one way to prove the existence of Spirit, but you have to do it on your own. You can't rely on a book or on a belief system (aka BS). Some people might steer you in the right direction, but it's you who has to make the first step, wrestle with your own shadow, peel the onion layers until you find who you truly are. Once you know that, you'll know what "God" is. I honestly don't understand why so many people are content with "believing" when there are so many ways to "knowing". I guess it's just easier. 6 hours ago, gunderhill said: THis is about as vague as you cna possibly get and brings nothing to the discussion. To be fair, this sounds 100% correct IMO:- "They say God has created man in his image, when in truth it's the other way around. We have personified God in our image." Edited April 19, 2019 by dick dasterdly 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 hours ago, gunderhill said: Yes one is better and this is mostly gobbledey gook. Even more vagueness. Unlike religion science is sometimes wrong, its there to be tested, religion is not even though science has on too many occasions proven it wrong. Again, you mistake religion with spirituality. Science considered acupuncture as "gobbledey gook" for a long time, now it is taught to doctors all over the world and guess what...it works. But how? After all the whole acupuncture system is based on energy lines in our body that can't be seen or touched, yet have been mapped (without science) a long time before traditional science was even established. hmm Of course religion has been proven wrong. You don't need to be a (rocket) scientist to understand that the world wasn't created in 7 days, do you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 hours ago, gunderhill said: Total mumbo jumbo, again no such thing has any proof whatsoever, except of course in "belief" and "Faith" It's quite funny and ironic that you would say that. Scientists are required to keep an open and inquisitive mind, yet here you are, dismissing millennia of spiritual practice of millions and millions of people with just "mumbo jumbo". Convenient, isn't it? What valuable insights have you brought to the discussion? Why not start to meditate and find out by yourself? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcharacters Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/14/2019 at 10:10 PM, CharlieH said: Can we not appear to "mock" others religion please. Are you making a request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yodsak Posted April 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2019 16 hours ago, notmyself said: Strange that the god believed is almost always the same as the god believed by parents and/or culture one is raised in. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 56 minutes ago, Naam said: any equivalent number of being saved by religion? We know some facts of history, but we have no way to know how history would have been taking god and religion out of the equation. There is no way to change the past. I think that we live in the "best possible world". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexlark Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) No! Why not? Infinity probably excludes any concrete proof. So perhaps infinity is due some respect, at least, and might even be that the nearest we ever get to God/god. (Review that term in reverse.) When talking on this site about our own widespread incompetence, we are probably still better off talking about the role of commonsense/personal experience rather than wittering on about the hand (paw) of God. Edited April 19, 2019 by Mexlark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: spiritual practice of millions and millions More nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual" show the evidence for a "spirit", Numbers mean nothing doesnt matter if its billions or trillions "believing" Oh yeah and meths and alcohol dont count as "spirits"???? especially if you are a muslim. Edited April 19, 2019 by gunderhill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said: You removed the context from my quote Forum rules 16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post. golly gosh smack my hands till they bleed, or....nail me to a cross, it would be more fitting .???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, 5633572526 said: More people have died and are dying because of religion than have ever been saved by it I think mosquitos killed way more, but that's ok because god loves us all even the worse diseases under the sun are his ( note almost all god always male) blessing to us. Edited April 19, 2019 by gunderhill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunderhill Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mexlark said: personal experience You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats how many of these crackpot religions started in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve73 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Does anyone else remember Dave Allen's irreverence..? His closing comment on every show was "Goodnight, and may YOUR god go with you"...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, gunderhill said: More nonsense, what exactly is "spiritual" show the evidence for a "spirit", Numbers mean nothing doesnt matter if its billions or trillions "believing" Maybe you are hearing me but you're not listening. You can find " evidence" of Spirit if you look for it, not with microscopes and anal probes, but with the right tools: meditation, introspection. The evidence is there for all to find, but of course, you'll just say it's nonsense and be done with it. Still waiting for your valuable contribution to the discussion. ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, gunderhill said: You cant really rely on "personal experience" thats how many of these crackpot religions started in the first place. Can you rely on your own personal experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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