Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Even if you believe in god, he will not give you guidelines.

That is because we all have free will. Only humans think they have a right to tell other people what to do and how to behave and what to say, or not say.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

you can find out by yourself what God wants from you.

And what if I "find out"  that to serve god, I should kill all non believers?

 

different faces of the Divine Source, and so is Yahwe, Allah, Brahma, Odin etc.

Greek gods were in competition and jealous.

If anyone says God wants us to kill other people they are liars, as no one knows what God wants.

 

I thought you didn't believe god was real, so how could the Greek gods be real?

 

It's rather pointless coming on here and debating what God wants, or does, if one doesn't believe God exists. One can only debate what God wants or does if one believes there is a God.

If on the other hand one comes on here only to mock, that is against forum rules and just wasting pixels and everyone's time.

[oldhippy]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's easy. One should try to live as a good person. Does anyone think it would be OK to be a bad person?

Everyone except psychopaths has a conscience. A conscience tells everyone if what they do is good or bad.

It is not necessary to believe in god to be a good person, but a person that believes is likely to want to be a good person, while a person that thinks there is no after life may decide it doesn't matter if they are bad.

 

NB I am not telling anyone how to be a good person, but obviously stealing, using violence against innocents, murder etc are not what anyone should be doing. Everyone's morality though, is different, so their version of moral good may differ from others.

However, my creed is to not willingly cause hurt to another, and to try to do unto others as I would like them to do unto me.

I'm the first to admit I sometimes fail.

QUOTE:

It is not necessary to believe in god to be a good person, but a person that believes is likely to want to be a good person, while a person that thinks there is no after life may decide it doesn't matter if they are bad.

 

The christian crusaders believed in god and heaven / hell.

More recently ISIS believed in god and heaven / hell.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If anyone says God wants us to kill other people they are liars, as no one knows what God wants.

 

I thought you didn't believe god was real, so how could the Greek gods be real?

 

It's rather pointless coming on here and debating what God wants, or does, if one doesn't believe God exists. One can only debate what God wants or does if one believes there is a God.

If on the other hand one comes on here only to mock, that is against forum rules and just wasting pixels and everyone's time.

QUOTE:

I thought you didn't believe god was real, so how could the Greek gods be real

One can only debate what God wants or does if one believes there is a God.

 

I think you do not understand my point.

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If anyone says God wants us to kill other people they are liars, as no one knows what God wants.

 

I thought you didn't believe god was real, so how could the Greek gods be real?

 

It's rather pointless coming on here and debating what God wants, or does, if one doesn't believe God exists. One can only debate what God wants or does if one believes there is a God.

If on the other hand one comes on here only to mock, that is against forum rules and just wasting pixels and everyone's time.

Some posters here ask questions, then, after you've tried to give them answers, they ignore you, or try to ridicule you, or say that they are not interested after all.

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

Sometimes ignoring them is the only way.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE:

I thought you didn't believe god was real, so how could the Greek gods be real

One can only debate what God wants or does if one believes there is a God.

 

I think you do not understand my point.

 

Oh I do, but I think you are just trying to put a cat among the pigeons.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Some posters here ask questions, then, after you've tried to give them answers, they ignore you, or try to ridicule you, or say that they are not interested after all.

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

Sometimes ignoring them is the only way.

There are a few unbelievers that come on here out of curiosity, and willing to debate reasonably, then there are the committed atheists that come on here only to mock and try to sow confusion. They are pretty obvious as they are the ones that continually talk about "religion", when most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

Far as I'm concerned, religion is a completely different topic altogether.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

you can find out by yourself what God wants from you.

And what if I "find out"  that to serve god, I should kill all non believers?

 

different faces of the Divine Source, and so is Yahwe, Allah, Brahma, Odin etc.

Greek gods were in competition and jealous.

Why would God, who loves all of his creation, want you to kill another part of his creation?

Only people will ask you to do that. But then you will still have free will and the ability to discern good from bad, right?

 

If a "god" is jealous or has another human trait, it means he is imperfect. Being imperfect automatically excludes him from being GOD, since GOD is the Absolute Perfection. 

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Some posters here ask questions, then, after you've tried to give them answers, they ignore you, or try to ridicule you, or say that they are not interested after all.

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

Sometimes ignoring them is the only way.

quote:

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

 

I agree.

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There are a few unbelievers that come on here out of curiosity, and willing to debate reasonably, then there are the committed atheists that come on here only to mock and try to sow confusion. They are pretty obvious as they are the ones that continually talk about "religion", when most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

Far as I'm concerned, religion is a completely different topic altogether.

Personally, i'm willing to discuss religion, but some people are too confused and biased to debate in a rational way.

As for faith, i have to admit that is very difficult to discuss it. Too many variables.

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There are a few unbelievers that come on here out of curiosity, and willing to debate reasonably, then there are the committed atheists that come on here only to mock and try to sow confusion. They are pretty obvious as they are the ones that continually talk about "religion", when most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

Far as I'm concerned, religion is a completely different topic altogether.

QUOTE: most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

 

Really? No bible people here on this thread?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

 

Really? No bible people here on this thread?

I'm sure you understand what "most" means.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

Sunmaster, you pretend to not understand my post 4734.

I am sure you do, despite it is written in a  not so correct English. 

That you may not agree with its content is of course your full right. 

It's just frustrating because you keep confusing religion with God/spirituality. 

 

If children are born with or without religion is inconsequential. What matters is that everyone is born with a divine spark. If that spark ignites a fire later in life is another question.

 

Does that answer your question? 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

quote:

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

 

I agree.

 

Well, i admit that i'm not completely innocent.

Sometimes i get carried away, no malice though, i am an old hippy too ????

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I know people, Thai, who were born in Thailand, and were born Christian.  Is Thailand, then, a Christian country?  The fact is, there are Christians in virtually every country on earth.  My uncle and grandfather were both born in China.  They were and are Christian.  My great-grandfather was certified to teach Chinese in the Chinese university.  Another member of my ancestry, however, who was born in a Christian country was a spiritist (a witch).  Her husband, when no one else was at home, would hear footsteps going up and down the stairs.  Sometimes the table or chairs would float around in the room.  The spirits communicated with her, and she would heal people (for a price).  This went on until, one day, she saw a sign for some meetings that would address spiritualism, and she, no realizing it was a Christian evangelist, thought to herself that she would go because she wanted to be a better spiritualist!  At first, actually, the spirits helped her--they would find the Bible texts for her (she didn't know the Bible), and even read them to her.  But as the meetings progressed, one day she noticed that the demons weren't reading correctly, and she got angry with them.  They were trying to trick her into believing that the Bible said something rather different than it actually said!  She became a Christian through those meetings, and her husband got angry with her because she didn't earn money anymore from healing people.

 

No country, people group, or language has a monopoly on knowledge of God.  Anyone anywhere can become a Christian and enjoy all the benefits of a Christ-centered life.

I'm curious...are you saying that "salvation" is there for anyone, but if they don't take it, they are damned?

[Mike Teavee]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm curious...are you saying that "salvation" is there for anyone, but if they don't take it, they are damned?

[Apologies a bit OT but speaking of "Salvation"]

 

Has everybody seen the 2019 BBC update to Christmas Carol?

 

Really enjoyed it, definitely worth a watch if you're able to get it...  

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

To state that some misrepresent God, it imply that some believe knowing His real being/intent. 

Who dare to pretend that? 

Sunmaster, MauGR and especially Thaibeachlovers. And they do so without providing any objective evidence, in the most abstract, subjective and vague ways, while being haughty and arrogant and underhandedly condescending. 

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

What matters is that everyone is born with a divine spark.

Interesting opinion, however I am one of those who do not share it. 

 

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

It's just frustrating because you keep confusing religion with God/spirituality. 

Maybe you should try to accept, that what you consider as different is not necessary the case for another. 

 

In other words accept that not everybody is always agree with your opinion; and that your opinion is not the only right one, even if you may pretend it is so. 

 

If you cannot do this, I am afraid you will be regularly frustrated. 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm curious...are you saying that "salvation" is there for anyone, but if they don't take it, they are damned?

Yes, I believe that to be true, but let me define two of your terms:

 

1) "Take it."  I understand that those who live unselfish lives, truly caring for those around them, and choosing honesty and righteousness over greed and immorality, will be accepted of God and receive eternal life--even if they never had been told about God in their lives.  I understand that, in heaven, as the saved begin eternity together with God, there will be some who ask Jesus why He has scars in His hands (the nail prints) because they have never heard the story of Jesus' crucifixion.  I believe there will be a special class in heaven to teach these honest-hearted souls whom God has accepted in spite of their ignorance the basics that they have not yet learned.  I believe every person in the world, regardless of his or her beliefs, hears two voices of prompting in the mind, one speaking good and one speaking evil, and those who consistently follow the good that they know, even if they do not know about God, will be among the saved--because they have followed God's voice.

 

2) "Damned." I understand the Bible to teach the truth about this, whereas most Christians have misunderstood it.  God will take no delight in punishing anyone, nor will He punish anyone forever in hell.  But in justice, God must punish, and the final result of that punishment is death.  "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

 

People would say God was not fair if, as the Judge of the universe, He did not punish people for their transgressions of His law.  Consider, for example, the case of someone brutally raping and murdering a woman.  Suppose that woman is your daughter.  Would you think God was good, righteous, and fair, if He told the perpetrator: "Nevermind, I won't punish you for that--I will be nice."?  Because God is just and fair, He must punish.  Even though He punishes, the Bible calls it God's "strange act," because God is love, and He takes delight in being merciful and forgiving.  If sinners, however sinful they may have been in the past, come to God and sincerely repent of their sin, pleading God's forgiveness and a new heart (new desires) so that they will not continue in their sins, God will accept them, and pardon them.  The sins which the saved have committed are still punished, but the punishment is passed to their tempter, Satan.  Satan will be punished the longest in hell, but he, too, will die.  There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that hell itself lasts forever--but it says the fire of hell is eternal.  Eternal fire does not mean eternal life in that fire.  The Bible says God is a fire.  I believe hell is seeing the full perfection of God while standing condemned in His presence on account of sinfulness.  Meanwhile, the righteous get to live forever in that fire (see Isaiah 33:14; 43:2).

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Some posters here ask questions, then, after you've tried to give them answers, they ignore you, or try to ridicule you, or say that they are not interested after all.

Others post while completely drunk, showing a total confusion, if you let them know, they get offended.

Sometimes ignoring them is the only way.

Pot meet kettle! ????

[owl sees all]

Every 10 years the UN could oganise a world referendum, to establish whether there is a god or not. That would settle it for a decade.

Anyone not liking the way the world is shaping up could vote the other way next time.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

they are the ones that continually talk about "religion", when most of us believers have left "religion" far behind in the conversation.

Far as I'm concerned, religion is a completely different topic altogether.

You mean we all should not talk about "religion" anymore in this thread, because you consider, with some believers here, that it is a different topic. 

 

It seems to me that you and other believers want to impose your rules.

 

The mods doesn't seem to share your opinion in that matter. 

 

Or maybe you will pretend they are also wrong, and only you and some other believers are the only ones who are right. 

 

Maybe you all believers should put on ignore all the ones with a different opinion than yours, in that way you should only read the posts of the ones who share your opinions. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Maybe you all believers should put on ignore all the ones with a different opinion than yours, in that way you should only read the posts of the ones who share your opinions. 

 

To be honest i disagree with everybody here, believers or not.

With some i may agree on a couple of things, and they are not necessarily believers.

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Interesting opinion, however I am one of those who do not share it. 

 

Maybe you should try to accept, that what you consider as different is not necessary the case for another. 

 

In other words accept that not everybody is always agree with your opinion; and that your opinion is not the only right one, even if you may pretend it is so. 

 

If you cannot do this, I am afraid you will be regularly frustrated. 

 

Is it the same for you to read a book about swimming and actually swimming. Is the experience the same? Is the knowledge you gain from each of them the same?

Obviously not. With the first you have some ideas about swimming, but when you actually DO it, then you KNOW it.
Religion, is very much the same. Religion without practice is like an oyster without pearl. 

That religion is different from spirituality is not just my opinion, but pretty much a fact. Plenty of information out there if you care to verify.
But if you believe otherwise it's ok for me.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

You mean we all should not talk about "religion" anymore in this thread, because you consider, with some believers here, that it is a different topic. 

 

It seems to me that you and other believers want to impose your rules.

 

The mods doesn't seem to share your opinion in that matter. 

 

Or maybe you will pretend they are also wrong, and only you and some other believers are the only ones who are right. 

 

Maybe you all believers should put on ignore all the ones with a different opinion than yours, in that way you should only read the posts of the ones who share your opinions. 

 

 

Of course you can go on talking about religion and holy books if you like, if that makes you happy. But it seems it doesn't make you happy at all, so why keep banging on about it?

Arguing about which religion is best, which religion hurt your feelings when you were little, how that religion got that fact wrong bla bla bla ...will only bring more discord. 
I think what this thread (and the real world) needs, is a productive exchange of ideas that can bring people together and I think we did a decent job with that here.

But then it gets reversed into the endless religion dispute again...
I'm just waiting for someone new to pop in and say "Yeah, but which God are we talking about?", "If there's a God, how come I'm not a millionaire?" or "My uncle was very religious but got sick anyway. That means there's no God!"

???? ???? 

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course you can go on talking about religion and holy books if you like, if that makes you happy. But it seems it doesn't make you happy at all, so why keep banging on about it?

Arguing about which religion is best, which religion hurt your feelings when you were little, how that religion got that fact wrong bla bla bla ...will only bring more discord. 
I think what this thread (and the real world) needs, is a productive exchange of ideas that can bring people together and I think we did a decent job with that here.

But then it gets reversed into the endless religion dispute again...
I'm just waiting for someone new to pop in and say "Yeah, but which God are we talking about?", "If there's a God, how come I'm not a millionaire?" or "My uncle was very religious but got sick anyway. That means there's no God!"

???? ???? 

English is apparently not his first language, which explains why he misunderstands what I say, but I have him on ignore now.

[Skeptic7]

35 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course you can go on talking about religion and holy books if you like, if that makes you happy. But it seems it doesn't make you happy at all, so why keep banging on about it?

Arguing about which religion is best, which religion hurt your feelings when you were little, how that religion got that fact wrong bla bla bla ...will only bring more discord. 
I think what this thread (and the real world) needs, is a productive exchange of ideas that can bring people together and I think we did a decent job with that here.

But then it gets reversed into the endless religion dispute again...
I'm just waiting for someone new to pop in and say "Yeah, but which God are we talking about?", "If there's a God, how come I'm not a millionaire?" or "My uncle was very religious but got sick anyway. That means there's no God!"

???? ???? 

Perhaps you were joking, but vast majority of atheists aren't "mad at god". That claim is utter nonsense. 

 

We don't believe because of lack of evidence/silly/unnecessary/it's superstitions and unreasonable. 

 

Your and others self-proclaimed "inexplicable" personal experiences, while real enough for you, actually show and do nothing to prove a god or existence of any "higher power"...regardless how many times you repeat it. Just your subjective opinion of a good feeling or awesome event experienced right here in the real world during a dreamlike altered state. Drugs, music, natural beauty, art, VR, dreams, etc can produce the same. No supernatural anything required. 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

of someone brutally raping and murdering a woman.  Suppose that woman is your daughter.  Would you think God was good, righteous, and fair, if He told the perpetrator: "Nevermind, I won't punish you for that--I will be nice."?  Because God is just and fair, He must punish. 

Interesting concept,lots of options.

An eye for an eye,turn they other cheek.As a matter of fact go thru the bible (if that is your book of choice)and pick any verse that suits you.

If someone who calls himself God is really all he is said to be, would he not prevent

that rape from happening?

 

[Skeptic7]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

English is apparently not his first language, which explains why he misunderstands what I say, but I have him on ignore now.

Soon you'll be talking to yo-self! ???? Which certainly seems your preference. ????????

Edited December 26, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Skeptic7]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

Interesting concept,lots of options.

An eye for an eye,turn they other cheek.As a matter of fact go thru the bible (if that is your book of choice)and pick any verse that suits you.

If someone who calls himself God is really all he is said to be, would he not prevent

that rape from happening?

 

Certainly I would try and I'm just a regular ol' human and the Village Atheist...

...and more moral than any god.