Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Perhaps you were joking, but vast majority of atheists aren't "mad at god". That claim is utter nonsense. 

 

We don't believe because of lack of evidence/silly/unnecessary/it's superstitions and unreasonable. 

 

Your and others self-proclaimed "inexplicable" personal experiences, while real enough for you, actually show and do nothing to prove a god or existence of any "higher power"...regardless how many times you repeat it. Just your subjective opinion of a good feeling or awesome event experienced right here in the real world during a dreamlike altered state. Drugs, music, natural beauty, art, VR, dreams, etc can produce the same. No supernatural anything required. 

Are you trying to tell me what my experience was/is? Seriously? 

And where did I say that the vast majority of atheists are mad at god? I said everyone, including atheists are "made of God". Perhaps you misunderstood. ???? 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

If someone who calls himself God is really all he is said to be, would he not prevent

that rape from happening?

 

If God would start to meddle with our choices, you would have no free will, would you? 
I don't know you, but I'd rather have free will and accept that people make bad decisions, than having my life predetermined by a higher power.

[mauGR1]

18 minutes ago, jvs said:

If someone who calls himself God is really all he is said to be, would he not prevent

that rape from happening?

 

This point has been debated several times in this thread, but as it seems that you atheists are not able to understand, it's useless to explain it again.

But, as you seem to be new here, i'll give you a hint.

"When you will be perfect, you will live in a perfect world.. For now, make the best of what you have, and be good, Johnny, be good"

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

If God would start to meddle with our choices, you would have no free will, would you? 
I don't know you, but I'd rather have free will and accept that people make bad decisions, than having my life predetermined by a higher power.

If God had you programmed not to make bad choices you would never know!

If people made no bad choices there would be a lot less suffering.

[jvs]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

This point has been debated several times in this thread, but as it seems that you atheists are not able to understand, it's useless to explain it again.

But, as you seem to be new here, i'll give you a hint.

"When you will be perfect, you will live in a perfect world.. For now, make the best of what you have, and be good, Johnny, be good"

You seem to have a problem with atheists,why is that?

So if God is perfect why did he make us not so perfect?

If this guy who raped and killed this woman said he was sorry all would be forgiven?

A wai and 500 baht?

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

You seem to have a problem with atheists,why is that?

So if God is perfect why did he make us not so perfect?

If this guy who raped and killed this woman said he was sorry all would be forgiven?

A wai and 500 baht?

Not my problem, really.

If you accept that water is wet, and fire burns, why don't you accept that the physical world is not perfect ?

I believe in karma, what goes around comes around...And you will be your own judge.

Seriously, i get also very angry with all the injustice in this world, but what can we really do ?

I also consider rape as one of the worse crimes, yet, as Gandhi said: "Am eye for an eye will make the whole world blind".

So, in the end, forgiveness is the only answer, but i can understand it may be difficult sometimes.

[canuckamuck]

22 minutes ago, jvs said:

You seem to have a problem with atheists,why is that?

So if God is perfect why did he make us not so perfect?

If this guy who raped and killed this woman said he was sorry all would be forgiven?

A wai and 500 baht?

It is my perception That God has allowed, and prepared for, the corruption of the world as a means of illustrating good and evil. He is not as interested in our condition, during our mortal phase, as he is in our discernment between good and evil. The revelation that God is good, and is the source of life, and evil is the source of suffering and death, does not seem to be difficult. But still people reject the simple path of love, and recognition of Good. Once someone chooses to selflessly and honestly search for good, God is revealed.

God is not prepared to give the keys of the universe to those who fail to perceive good and to choose it.

Edited December 26, 2019 by canuckamuck

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

If people made no bad choices there would be a lot less suffering.

That's for sure. 
But where does suffering come from? According to Buddhism, suffering comes from attachment. This attachment of the self on a myriad of things (sex, your body, ideas, material things....) is the root of all evil. 
It's not God's duty to free us from attachments, but it's a job we all have to do individually. Only then we'll have true peace.
Know yourself and you'll know God.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Is it the same for you to read a book about swimming and actually swimming. Is the experience the same? Is the knowledge you gain from each of them the same?

Obviously not. With the first you have some ideas about swimming, but when you actually DO it, then you KNOW it.
Religion, is very much the same. Religion without practice is like an oyster without pearl. 

That religion is different from spirituality is not just my opinion, but pretty much a fact. Plenty of information out there if you care to verify.
But if you believe otherwise it's ok for me.

Swimming is something concrete. 

 

One can practice it, it is measurable, and so some are excellent in it, and admitted as being so by all. 

 

One can also become a specialist in religions

by studying it. 

 

One can even become a Master in religious studies and theology, and it is recognised as being so. 

 

When practicing religion one can not become a specialist, as it is not measurable;

one may have the opinion to know it, even mastering it, but it is an abstract skill, not necessarily  acknowledged by all. 

 

But of course, up to you to believe otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

33 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Once someone chooses to selflessly and honestly search for good, God is revealed.

I am 71+, all my life I tried to do good, and not bad intentionally. 

 

God has never been revealed to me. 

 

Of course one can claim it was, but that I didn't feel it concretely.

 

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

56 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Swimming is something concrete. 

 

One can practice it, it is measurable, and so some are excellent in it, and admitted as being so by all. 

 

One can also become a specialist in religions

by studying it. 

 

One can even become a Master in religious studies and theology, and it is recognised as being so. 

 

When practicing religion one can not become a specialist, as it is not measurable;

one may have the opinion to know it, even mastering it, but it is an abstract skill, not necessarily  acknowledged by all. 

 

But of course, up to you to believe otherwise. 

 

I beg to differ.
If you would start to practice yourself, you would very quickly learn that there is indeed a hierarchy. A Master in a spiritual practice doesn't declare himself to be so, but is recognized by others as having mastered himself.
The skill (to know yourself) is only abstract to you because you have never tried to learn it. 
Besides, the argument that since it's not measurable it's also not existent, is a very weak one and I have already shown several times that something can exist without science being able to verify its existence.

Like in every human field of knowledge there are those who just started learning, intermediaries and experts, and meditation is no exception. 
If you want to learn how the atom works, you go and ask a physicist, enrol in a uni course and study. If you want to know how a cell reproduces, you go ask a biologist and spend years learning. If you want to know how to stop the chatter in your head and become peaceful, you go to a master in that field and ask him to teach you. Why would you go ask a scientist who has no clue about meditation and self realization?!? Doesn't make sense.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Sunmaster

[canuckamuck]

24 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I am 71+, all my life I tried to do good, and not bad intentionally. 

 

God has never been revealed to me. 

 

Of course one can claim it was, but that I didn't feel it concretely.

 

 

 

 

I can't comment on the integrity of your searching, but the search for God requires the laying down of preconceptions and the examining of the evidence. Perhaps instead of searching for your idea of God, start looking at what others call the fingerprints of God. Order, truth, the value of love. the destructiveness of pride and selfishness. Meditate on what you discern as good and what men have called good since the beginning of history. A real search will require honest observation however.

Edited December 26, 2019 by canuckamuck

[luckyluke]

It is for sure that our difference in opinions will lead us nowhere. 

 

Can we agree that :

 

Some find happiness, joy, peace of mind... , in "Belief". 

 

Others find these without "Belief". 

 

"Belief" to be considered in a very ample way. 

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 

If God would start to meddle with our choices, you would have no free will, would you? 
I don't know you, but I'd rather have free will and accept that people make bad decisions, than having my life predetermined by a higher power.

Where's the free will of the baby being raped and tortured? Where's the free will of thousands starving and dying of malnutrition every day? Where's the "karma" for the good, innocent and righteous that suffer horribly for entire lifetimes?

 

Free will (in the god debate) and karma are desperate BS excuses by believers to distract from the reality and protect their failed, flawed and ridiculous beliefs. 

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Are you trying to tell me what my experience was/is? Seriously? 

And where did I say that the vast majority of atheists are mad at god? I said everyone, including atheists are "made of God". Perhaps you misunderstood. ???? 

Haven't misunderstand a word, but as usual the point made totally eluded you. ????

[wgdanson]

I heard that God's Mia Noi had a baby yesterday!    LOL

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

That's for sure. 
But where does suffering come from? According to Buddhism, suffering comes from attachment. This attachment of the self on a myriad of things (sex, your body, ideas, material things....) is the root of all evil. 
It's not God's duty to free us from attachments, but it's a job we all have to do individually. Only then we'll have true peace.
Know yourself and you'll know God.

Know yourself and you'll know...yourself. It may be argued that one will become a better person and/or treat others better or be more philanthropic, but brings you nowhere close to knowing any god. That is just all fluff with zero substance. 

 

You fantasylanders act as though only adults suffer. Do you even hear what you're claiming??? Where's the "attachments" of infants? The helpless??? The "unattached" innocents??? 

 

Gimme a break! ????

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Know yourself and you'll know...yourself. It may be argued that one will become a better person and/or treat others better or be more philanthropic, but brings you nowhere close to knowing any god. That is just all fluff with zero substance. 

 

You fantasylanders act as though only adults suffer. Do you even hear what you're claiming??? Where's the "attachments" of infants? The helpless??? The "unattached" innocents??? 

 

Gimme a break! ????

 

You, not believing in God, not practicing anything, suddenly become an expert in anything metaphysical and telling what meditation can or can not do. 

???? Hilarious

 

I just remembered why I ignored your nonsense, so back to that before I get infected by your trolling.
 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Sunmaster

[mike787]

This is what i believe in and they are fun....never disappoint.

[AsianAtHeart]

13 minutes ago, mike787 said:

This is what i believe in and they are fun....never disappoint.

Mike, take a closer look.  At their faces.  Do you see true happiness, joy, peace, or love there?  I don't.  I see fear, embarrassment, anxiety, sadness, insecurity and timidity in most of those expressions.  In one or two, there may be a little impudent impishness, but this is not to be confused with either confidence or happiness.  Their smiles are not genuine, they are the kind that are bought.  

 

The kind of true love, joy, peace, and happiness that God offers as a gift is not the kind which may be found in worldly pursuits, nor can any amount of money purchase it.  It is life-giving, and worth the sacrifice of any earthly good to obtain it. 

[mike787]

2 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Mike, take a closer look.  At their faces.  Do you see true happiness, joy, peace, or love there?  I don't.  I see fear, embarrassment, anxiety, sadness, insecurity and timidity in most of those expressions.  In one or two, there may be a little impudent impishness, but this is not to be confused with either confidence or happiness.  Their smiles are not genuine, they are the kind that are bought.  

 

The kind of true love, joy, peace, and happiness that God offers as a gift is not the kind which may be found in worldly pursuits, nor can any amount of money purchase it.  It is life-giving, and worth the sacrifice of any earthly good to obtain it. 

Beauty and happiness is in the eyes of the beholder...therefore I see love, fun, land of smiles and lust.  Not saying you're wrong, rather we have different perspectives is true.  Beyond that everything is a matter of interpretation.    

[Skeptic7]

42 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You, not believing in God, not practicing anything, suddenly become an expert in anything metaphysical and telling what meditation can or can not do. 

???? Hilarious

 

I just remembered why I ignored your nonsense, so back to that before I get infected by your trolling.
 

 

LOL same Ole nothingness! SOS. Never address the nonsense you spew, then try to turn the tables when challenged. 

 

There's a strawman waiting in the sky... 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Skeptic7]

52 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You, not believing in God, not practicing anything, suddenly become an expert in anything metaphysical and telling what meditation can or can not do. 

???? Hilarious

 

I just remembered why I ignored your nonsense, so back to that before I get infected by your trolling.
 

 

Address the questions Mr. Master! You don't because you can't...plain and simple. 7-8 months and never a straight answer...because you don't have any. Sad, really. ????

Edited December 26, 2019 by Skeptic7

[OmegaRacer]

Some unsavory characters around here.... 

[Skeptic7]

50 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

Some unsavory characters around here.... 

Agreed. But instead of judging character...how about chiming in so you can meet the rest of us! 

[OmegaRacer]

deleted

Edited December 26, 2019 by OmegaRacer
deleted post, dont want to feed the trollz

[Skeptic7]

38 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

deleted

Adds up to about as much as your amigo has to say. 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

deleted

You're right, don't bother. Trolls feed on attention and the best way to get rid of them is to ignore them. Join the club 555

[mauGR1]

5 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Adds up to about as much as your amigo has to say. 

Why don't you post something positive, perhaps something about the joy of being atheist.

Honestly, you sound a bit like a broken record, it makes me worry a bit ????

[jvs]

13 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 

If God would start to meddle with our choices, you would have no free will, would you? 
I don't know you, but I'd rather have free will and accept that people make bad decisions, than having my life predetermined by a higher power.

Do you really have free will?And how do you know that?