Do you believe in God and why

[Elad]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:38 PM, AsianAtHeart said:

Even if we consider that space is curved or warped into some form of space-time, it is completely unreasonable, and unscientific, to believe that projectiles from an explosion would miraculously begin orbiting in circles instead of being sent out in straight lines from the epicenter. 

It's pop science to think of the 'big bang' as an explosion. It wasn't an explosion within space, it was the beginning of spacetime itself, there are no specific coordinates for an epicentre, the big bang happened everywhere so we can say the centre is everywhere. No matter where you are in the universe its expanding at the same rate, which is around 70 km/s/Mpc (the Hubble constant). However, the expansion only applies on large scales, like superclusters of galaxies, for local galaxies such as the andromeda galaxy, gravity still dominates, and it will collide with our Galaxy in few billion years from now.

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, Elad said:

It's pop science to think of the 'big bang' as an explosion. It wasn't an explosion within space, it was the beginning of spacetime itself, there are no specific coordinates for an epicentre, the big bang happened everywhere so we can say the centre is everywhere. No matter where you are in the universe its expanding at the same rate, which is around 70 km/s/Mpc (the Hubble constant). However, the expansion only applies on large scales, like superclusters of galaxies, for local galaxies such as the andromeda galaxy, gravity still dominates, and it will collide with our Galaxy in few billion years from now.

Can you prove it ?

[Elad]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Can you prove it ?

The farther the galaxy, the more its light is redshifted and thus a higher recession speed. The light we observe from Andromeda galaxy is blue shifted, so its moving towards us and our galaxy is also moving towards andromeda.

[AsianAtHeart]

4 hours ago, Elad said:

It's pop science to think of the 'big bang' as an explosion. It wasn't an explosion within space, it was the beginning of spacetime itself, there are no specific coordinates for an epicentre, the big bang happened everywhere so we can say the centre is everywhere. No matter where you are in the universe its expanding at the same rate, which is around 70 km/s/Mpc (the Hubble constant). However, the expansion only applies on large scales, like superclusters of galaxies, for local galaxies such as the andromeda galaxy, gravity still dominates, and it will collide with our Galaxy in few billion years from now.

That sounds about as well thought out as the explanation of the dinosaur bones.  You've heard that one, right?

Back when I was in school, the scientific consensus was that soft tissues like animal cells, blood vessels, blood cells, etc. could last no more than 8,000 to 10,000 years.  Beyond this they would be fossilized / mineralized.  That was actually a fairly reasonable explanation.  Enter Mary Schweitzer's discoveries.  Now the preposterous claim is made that collagen from dinosaur bones can be extracted after 80 million years.  Wonder what it will be next...immortal?  

In any case, the dictionary doesn't seem to agree that the "Big Bang" wasn't an explosion.  I suppose some scientists have begun hunting up a new explanation when it was clear that the old one was too simple-minded to withstand scrutiny.  Now the "explosion" (after which the "Big Bang" was so obviously named) is supposed to have been bursts "everywhere"?  Claiming at one and the same time that space did not exist prior to the Big Bang and that the "explosion" happened such that "the centre is everywhere" seems a bit rich.  How can space have any "centre" without first existing as space?

 

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Why don't you post something positive, perhaps something about the joy of being atheist.

Honestly, you sound a bit like a broken record, it makes me worry a bit ????

Truth is not always positive, nor are the tough questions necessary finding it. Reality can be an eye opener, whether one likes it or not. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Skeptic7

[mike787]

Where is god anyway???

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, jvs said:

Interesting concept,lots of options.

An eye for an eye,turn they other cheek.As a matter of fact go thru the bible (if that is your book of choice)and pick any verse that suits you.

If someone who calls himself God is really all he is said to be, would he not prevent

that rape from happening?

 

There have been probably dozens of posts explaining why that doesn't happen.

Might as well ask why god doesn't just put us in Utopia for all sense of that.

Even the Bible explains it.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Are you trying to tell me what my experience was/is? Seriously? 

And where did I say that the vast majority of atheists are mad at god? I said everyone, including atheists are "made of God". Perhaps you misunderstood. ???? 

I don't know why you humour him by replying to his rants. All you do is feed the troll.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, jvs said:

You seem to have a problem with atheists,why is that?

So if God is perfect why did he make us not so perfect?

If this guy who raped and killed this woman said he was sorry all would be forgiven?

A wai and 500 baht?

Are you trolling?

All that has been explained many times on here already.

Don't expect us to repeat everything just for you because you don't want to read the thread.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I beg to differ.
If you would start to practice yourself, you would very quickly learn that there is indeed a hierarchy. A Master in a spiritual practice doesn't declare himself to be so, but is recognized by others as having mastered himself.
The skill (to know yourself) is only abstract to you because you have never tried to learn it. 
Besides, the argument that since it's not measurable it's also not existent, is a very weak one and I have already shown several times that something can exist without science being able to verify its existence.

Like in every human field of knowledge there are those who just started learning, intermediaries and experts, and meditation is no exception. 
If you want to learn how the atom works, you go and ask a physicist, enrol in a uni course and study. If you want to know how a cell reproduces, you go ask a biologist and spend years learning. If you want to know how to stop the chatter in your head and become peaceful, you go to a master in that field and ask him to teach you. Why would you go ask a scientist who has no clue about meditation and self realization?!? Doesn't make sense.

There are a few on here that if they lived far from the ocean and had never seen it for themselves would claim that the ocean never existed because they only believe in things they themselves have seen and felt.

The same old futile arguments are being constantly regurgitated, most of which concern religion and the god of religion ie an old man with human emotions.

This thread is just going in circles, but I shall persevere as I am still learning from a few that have seen the light.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Mike, take a closer look.  At their faces.  Do you see true happiness, joy, peace, or love there?  I don't.  I see fear, embarrassment, anxiety, sadness, insecurity and timidity in most of those expressions.  In one or two, there may be a little impudent impishness, but this is not to be confused with either confidence or happiness.  Their smiles are not genuine, they are the kind that are bought.  

 

The kind of true love, joy, peace, and happiness that God offers as a gift is not the kind which may be found in worldly pursuits, nor can any amount of money purchase it.  It is life-giving, and worth the sacrifice of any earthly good to obtain it. 

LOL. You are not familiar with bar girls, are you?

What I see is the look of expectation of "tonight's the night I hook a rich farang", or the look of someone that has spied a walking ATM, or the smile of the tiger as it stalks its prey in anticipation of the feast to come.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, mike787 said:

Beauty and happiness is in the eyes of the beholder...therefore I see love, fun, land of smiles and lust.  Not saying you're wrong, rather we have different perspectives is true.  Beyond that everything is a matter of interpretation.    

There are a few there I'd like to find under the Christmas tree. Unwrapping the present would be such fun.

While I do believe in the creator, I'm not one that thinks a bit of lust is a bad thing. More sex for everyone and less fighting would be a good thing for the world we live in.

If the creator gave us the lust gene, it can't be a bad thing. Just because the men in funny hats don't like sex, it doesn't mean they are right.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

deleted

I'm asking us not to feed the troll. Answering him just gives him satisfaction. If he doesn't get any satisfaction from baiting you ( I say you because I don't feed him anymore ) he might go away, which would improve the quality of this thread immensely.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Why don't you post something positive, perhaps something about the joy of being atheist.

Honestly, you sound a bit like a broken record, it makes me worry a bit ????

He's a troll, IMO. He enjoys baiting us, IMO.

Please don't feed the troll.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Elad said:

The farther the galaxy, the more its light is redshifted and thus a higher recession speed. The light we observe from Andromeda galaxy is blue shifted, so its moving towards us and our galaxy is also moving towards andromeda.

Not that.

Your claim that the big bang was the beginning of spacetime itself, that there are no specific coordinates for an epicentre, that the big bang happened everywhere so we can say the centre is everywhere.

It's only a guess by people that study such things, but there is no way they could prove it.

The whole point of believing in a creator is that this universe is probably only one among uncountable universes that have been created and died, for ever and ever and ever. After our universe dies another will arise, etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

51 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Where is god anyway???

"God" is everywhere, in everything, in you. To know "God" one has to be open to be able to understand faith.

Someone with a closed mind is no more likely to discover "God" than a blind man can find a speck of dandruff in a field. It is within the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.

No one else can show you "God", although they can show you the path to "God". It's up to the individual to do the hard yards to discover "God".

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He's a troll, IMO. He enjoys baiting us, IMO.

Please don't feed the troll.

Mate, he's been stalking me with sad faces for months, and he has been the first poster in 10 years to get on the ignore list.

I could say that i know him, and yesterday i took a resolution, to try to be more kind to my fellow humans, especially those that i find difficult to deal with.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Mate, he's been stalking me with sad faces for months, and he has been the first poster in 10 years to get on the ignore list.

I could say that i know him, and yesterday i took a resolution, to try to be more kind to my fellow humans, especially those that i find difficult to deal with.

Please be kind to the rest of us by not feeding him. I have him on ignore, but he still keeps trolling me.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Truth is not always positive, nor are the tough questions necessary finding it. Reality can be an eye opener, whether one likes it or not. 

Agree on the truth, but what is your definition of reality ?

Do you mean your reality, or a general reality ?

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please be kind to the rest of us by not feeding him. I have him on ignore, but he still keeps trolling me.

I really would, but to be honest, he answered honestly to a honest question, while a few other posters on this thread apparently think i am not worth an answer. I am here for the banter too.

Please don't take it personally, i understand your concern, been there, done that.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Mike, take a closer look.  At their faces.  Do you see true happiness, joy, peace, or love there?  I don't.  I see fear, embarrassment, anxiety, sadness, insecurity and timidity in most of those expressions.  In one or two, there may be a little impudent impishness, but this is not to be confused with either confidence or happiness.  Their smiles are not genuine, they are the kind that are bought.  

 

The kind of true love, joy, peace, and happiness that God offers as a gift is not the kind which may be found in worldly pursuits, nor can any amount of money purchase it.  It is life-giving, and worth the sacrifice of any earthly good to obtain it. 

I tried to add to my previous reply, but past time to edit it.

Do you not consider that every one of those girls is there by choice, that they know exactly what they are doing, and that many of them will have a far far better life by having sex with strangers for a few years than they ever would by working as a farm labourer, or in a sweat shop, or worst of all as a maid?

Many bar girls like the life style, they enjoy sex, even with strangers, and they especially like the money they make. If they get lucky, some even get to go to other countries with customers, or have a holiday at a beach. Beats having to shuffle around a pole all night. It's not hard work, and it pays well.

God has nothing against prostitutes.

None of them was forced to do that, and they can stop doing it whenever they like. I had a gogo girlfriend for about 8 years till she found a rich guy to marry. I got to know her pretty well during that time and no one forced her to do anything she didn't want to do.

I'm not claiming that all are undamaged, but if they are it was not being a bar girl that caused it.

[mike787]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I tried to add to my previous reply, but past time to edit it.

Do you not consider that every one of those girls is there by choice, that they know exactly what they are doing, and that many of them will have a far far better life by having sex with strangers for a few years than they ever would by working as a farm labourer, or in a sweat shop, or worst of all as a maid?

Many bar girls like the life style, they enjoy sex, even with strangers, and they especially like the money they make. If they get lucky, some even get to go to other countries with customers, or have a holiday at a beach. Beats having to shuffle around a pole all night. It's not hard work, and it pays well.

God has nothing against prostitutes.

None of them was forced to do that, and they can stop doing it whenever they like. I had a gogo girlfriend for about 8 years till she found a rich guy to marry. I got to know her pretty well during that time and no one forced her to do anything she didn't want to do.

I'm not claiming that all are undamaged, but if they are it was not being a bar girl that caused it.

Seriously, that is a brilliant perspective.  Many I know, bar girls, expats, thai families/culture have the same thoughts.

[mauGR1]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

The farther the galaxy, the more its light is redshifted and thus a higher recession speed. The light we observe from Andromeda galaxy is blue shifted, so its moving towards us and our galaxy is also moving towards andromeda.

Thanks, i was referring to the whole post.

I have to admit that, despite being in awe of the great achievements of astronomy, i am very skeptical about these theories of the big bang and the expanding universe.

I would like though to have a rough idea of how the scientists have come to those conclusions, perhaps in the near future, i will have to do some research myself.

[mauGR1]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

God has nothing against prostitutes.

Amen to that, probably, taken as a bunch, bankers, lawyers, politicians and soldiers (sorry if i forget some) will have more troubles to reach higher realms.

[Sunmaster]

14 hours ago, jvs said:

Do you really have free will?And how do you know that?

Hmm, that opens a whole new can of worms.
From a mechanistic point of view, everything is based on cause and effect. Free will would circumvent that law and is therefore not plausible. Psychologically too, Freud and Skinner attributed the human behaviour to changes within and in the environment. The same ideas come from neuroscience and genetics.
This viewpoint though only recognizes the materialistic (measurable) fields in which humans move, but never take into consideration the other less evident fields.
While I think they are all onto something true, some parts are missing to have a full picture. 
Our actions can be (and often are) guided by our subconscious and environment, by the genes we have inherited from our parents and grandparents (coming back to the 7 generation sins), BUT we were also given the opportunity to transcend those factors and be truly free.
For me, free will is the underlying, perfect state that we all have, but it generally is influenced and muddied by those other factors (psychological, environmental, genetical etc). 
So, does free will exist? Yes and no, it depends on how wide the framework is you're looking at.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Hmm, that opens a whole new can of worms.
From a mechanistic point of view, everything is based on cause and effect. Free will would circumvent that law and is therefore not plausible. Psychologically too, Freud and Skinner attributed the human behaviour to changes within and in the environment. The same ideas come from neuroscience and genetics.
This viewpoint though only recognizes the materialistic (measurable) fields in which humans move, but never take into consideration the other less evident fields.
While I think they are all onto something true, some parts are missing to have a full picture. 
Our actions can be (and often are) guided by our subconscious and environment, by the genes we have inherited from our parents and grandparents (coming back to the 7 generation sins), BUT we were also given the opportunity to transcend those factors and be truly free.
For me, free will is the underlying, perfect state that we all have, but it generally is influenced and muddied by those other factors (psychological, environmental, genetical etc). 
So, does free will exist? Yes and no, it depends on how wide the framework is you're looking at.

Good post, i would add that, once you get able to transcend your physical being, there you'll find a true free will.

Definitely, free will exists, but perhaps not in the shape someone would wish.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Hmm, that opens a whole new can of worms.
From a mechanistic point of view, everything is based on cause and effect. Free will would circumvent that law and is therefore not plausible. Psychologically too, Freud and Skinner attributed the human behaviour to changes within and in the environment. The same ideas come from neuroscience and genetics.
This viewpoint though only recognizes the materialistic (measurable) fields in which humans move, but never take into consideration the other less evident fields.
While I think they are all onto something true, some parts are missing to have a full picture. 
Our actions can be (and often are) guided by our subconscious and environment, by the genes we have inherited from our parents and grandparents (coming back to the 7 generation sins), BUT we were also given the opportunity to transcend those factors and be truly free.
For me, free will is the underlying, perfect state that we all have, but it generally is influenced and muddied by those other factors (psychological, environmental, genetical etc). 
So, does free will exist? Yes and no, it depends on how wide the framework is you're looking at.

I look at it from the perspective of choice. We all have the freedom to choose.

We can choose to be good or we can choose to be bad.

No matter how bad the consequences are for a choice we have the choice. In war, many have chosen to die rather than abandon their mates, but they had the choice to run away if they took it.

Not exactly free will, but close enough for me.

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks, i was referring to the whole post.

I have to admit that, despite being in awe of the great achievements of astronomy, i am very skeptical about these theories of the big bang and the expanding universe.

I would like though to have a rough idea of how the scientists have come to those conclusions, perhaps in the near future, i will have to do some research myself.

I choose to believe that all matter in the universe will eventually be consumed by a black hole, to be reborn in a "big bang" as another universe, and so on for ever and ever and ever.

[Sunmaster]

I've just read up a bit more about free will. 

Interestingly, regardless if free will actually exists or not, the simple act of believing that it exists makes you behave in a significantly better way than if you believe our actions are predetermined.

"For Baumeister, believing that we are free leads us to act as though we are, and he and his colleagues (Baumeister, Masicampo, & DeWall, 2009) have conducted experiments indicating that telling people that they have no free will leads them to behave in socially irresponsible ways such as cheating and refusing to help others."

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I choose to believe that all matter in the universe will eventually be consumed by a black hole, to be reborn in a "big bang" as another universe, and so on for ever and ever and ever.

Fair enough, what i highly doubt, is some scientific theory claiming to know exactly how the universe has been formed.

Chances are we will never know.